True enough... it wasn't ready for prime time when it came out what, four years ago, it isn't ready now, and with Dom's shift in emphasis over to it's WS strengths, maybe it won't be ready in another four years too... So, in a way, it has ALWAYS been up-to-date

There isn't ONE person using this thing as primarily an arranger on this forum, despite a few actually owning them. The day it finally DOES manage to be ready for prime time, that will be the day it deserves our attention as ARRANGER players. Until then, it primarily serves as a cautionary tale for those who's enthusiasm for new technology exceeds their ability to discern whether it will do the job they WANT it to...

BTW, can anyone link me to any user music using the new Qranger audio features that you would consider 'jaw-dropping'? I'm still trying to find out if anyone (including the factory players) has managed to coax something useful out of this, yet...

Sorry Dennis, but for arranger use (in other words, styles that are usable for a multitude of songs, not just the one specific one) I see a lot of problems with using audio instead of MIDI... for starters, how do you deal with the issue of 'wrap-around'? All MIDI arranger parts can be pitch limited (just like a real instrument is) into a preset range. How do you get an audio loop to do that? How do you get a sampled bassline to deal with slash chords? And where exactly do you find a good selection of playing loops that cover all possible chord types and inversions?

You see, at the same time that GIGA sized MIDI instruments get pretty close to indistinguishable from real ones, and GB sized drum kit libraries (with MIDI files of real drummers triggering them) become very hard to tell they are not loops (before anyone starts arguing these points again, can I suggest you actually GO to some of these sites and listen to the demos), and Guitar Modes that get closer and closer to the real thing, arranger manufacturers start moving away from them, and embrace a technology that offers NO customizability or flexibility, and reduce us once again to preset ROMpler arrangers like we had fifteen, twenty years ago...

Sure, importing a drum loop library is pretty easy, if one can find one that a) provides enough variations and fills to compete with a MIDI arranger (doable, to a certain degree) and b) has a selection of playing conducive to an Intro or Ending (MUCH harder), but where do you find matching bass grooves, string lines, horn lines, not to mention guitar parts, in the myriad of chord types you might need. Sure, if you KNOW in advance (a songstyle, e.g.) what chords you need, you MIGHT be good to go. But a style needs the ability to play any chord if it is to be anything more than a jumped up song specific SMF...

Look at the hoops that Ketron have had to jump thorough, to make their guitar loop library useful. Basically, they HAD to use MIDI (at least in a half-assed way) to cover the holes, and failed miserably (IMO) to integrate the two well. Now, extrapolate that to basslines, piano parts, whatever you DO want to do with audio, your task gets pretty tough...

And, if you are using an audio loop for everything, where do you find libraries of these in all needed chords, modes and transpositions. Remember, you transpose a loop, you've transposed EVERYTHING within that loop. MIDI allows the guitar chord to transpose differently to the bassline, and have the horn line transpose differently to THAT... Far more musical, IMO.

I'm looking forward to hearing some of your Qranger stuff in action, but feel a little skeptical for it's general usefulness, not to mention the time it must be taking...