I was brought up in a catholic environment, went to catholic schools, etc. Yet nowhere or not once did I ever witness "free agency". You either were or weren't and fire and brimstone awaited those that weren't.

What I did witness was the hatred between those that praised the same god, read the same "good" book, but were of different denominations; catholic vs. protestant, mormon vs. all the rest, etc. Everyone denouncing everyone else's belief and proclaiming that theirs is the "true" church.

Buddhism doesn't have this. Zen Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, basically every other branch of Buddhism, gets along and respects each other for their principles remain the same. The main differences are certain ceremonies or those that are strictly vegan and those that aren't. Some Buddhists, for instance, are strictly vegan, don't even eat garlic and onions, while in Laos, even monks, eat anything, meat included. They're, however, forbidden from killing animals. But those differences aren't frowned upon as one expects differences due to different cultures.

Fran, since you've joined the conversation and mentioned the bible, how well do you know the scriptures? But more importantly, how closely do you "live" the scriptures?

I've had many conversations with atheists and, believe me, they're far more knowledgable about the scriptures than most believers that barely have an idea what's written in it. So far I've never met a "dumb" atheist.

When I was in high school I questioned a bishop. I asked him why he was telling us to give donations and live frugal lives while he was living in a manson and had a handful of servants at his disposal. And why he had such a high salary. You see, I'd done my homework. All I got from him was a really dirty look and silence before I was literally thrown out of the church by a couple of teachers.

If one can't question, then how can one understand. If one doesn't understand, how can one believe? To answer a question with a quote that can be answered with another quote that tells the opposite and so on and on... still leaves me without a clear answer. Belief is something entirely personal; it can't be taken away unless YOU let it. It can't be influenced unless YOU let it.

No devil ever made me do anything that I wasn't prepared to do. While I may have felt sorry about it later on, the blame was on me. And for every good deed that I've done, it was of my own doing. I guess that's why we have prisons. Or everyone would be saying "the devil made me do it so you have nothing against me".

If all it takes is a deathbed conversion, then why even bother with religion?

Good things... I prefer to believe that individuals do good things but organizations (churches) tend to take full credit. Take Mother Teresa. She did far more on her own then did the entire Vatican.

Civil Rights... it was still individuals who stood up, with or without backing of the church.

A church should be without wealth!

Taike



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Bo pen nyang.