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#328528 - 07/11/11 07:47 PM You will not believe this!!!!!
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
OK, is everyone setting down?
If not...be sure to.

Tonight I met Craig Knudsen of Yamaha. Sweewater had him in to launch their new line...Clavinovas and Pianos from Yamaha. He did a super demo, performance, and fun presentation, highlighting the 509. What a fine gentleman and a VERY talented player. He is a heavy hitter at Yamaha and works with Tyros, Clavinova and Disklaveir. Works with Martin Harris regularly.

But, here is the real story...do you wish you could sing IN PITCH? I sure do and I have asked for and always thought this is possible with todays technology...well IT IS!!!

Enough said...just go watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIiuSglLMY

What do you think?
To me it sounds VERY good and not fake or digital.



Edited by leeboy (07/11/11 07:49 PM)
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#328532 - 07/11/11 09:06 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Pearlss1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 47
Loc: Ocean County, New Jersey
One word.

WOW! It was so smooth so natural. I dont think TC Helicon can do this. I used to have a Pa1x with the optional pitch correction and voice modelling, this just blows it away.

Am looking into another TOTL arranger, was considering very strongly the Pa3x, now im unsure. If yamaha can come up with this through a software update maybe they have learned a little from korg on releasing updates and upgrades to their machines.

David

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#328533 - 07/11/11 09:14 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Pearlss1977]
Eric, B Offline
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Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
That was great.
Any Idea when and where we might see this technology on the market?
Thanks
Eric
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#328534 - 07/11/11 09:28 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Maybe I'm missing something here but what are you doing in the music business if you can't sing on pitch?

Joe
_________________________
PSR S950, PSR S900, Roland RD 700, Yamaha C3 6'Grand, Sennheiser E 935 mic, several recording mics including a Neuman U 87, Bose L1 Compact, Roland VS 2480 24 Track Recorder
Joe Ayala

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#328538 - 07/11/11 11:09 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Songman55]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: Songman55
Maybe I'm missing something here but what are you doing in the music business if you can't sing on pitch?

Joe




Well Joe,
there you go we are all not as well blessed vocally as you, some of us have not had the professional voice training like you, some of us can just about get away with saying we can sing, especially when we sing in front of old people who are part deaf or tone deaf. Joe if the technology is there Yamaha will use it to sell KBS what wrong with that. Don’t you use echo or reverberation on your KB or is that you straight voice. Life has moved on from the Bontempi , C3 etc, spring reverberation units and copy cat tape echo.


Tonyneeeeeeeeeeeee!

There you are pitch perfect joe.
_________________________
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#328539 - 07/11/11 11:15 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Pearlss1977]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: Pearlss1977
One word.

WOW! It was so smooth so natural. I dont think TC Helicon can do this. I used to have a Pa1x with the optional pitch correction and voice modelling, this just blows it away.

Am looking into another TOTL arranger, was considering very strongly the Pa3x, now im unsure. If yamaha can come up with this through a software update maybe they have learned a little from korg on releasing updates and upgrades to their machines.

David



David,

And WOW from me. I can't sing a freaking note but the christmas I am booked at the home for wrinkles near me, $300 for 1 hour,

MY WAY
STAND BY YOUR BED (MAN)
WE'LL MEET AGAIN

and all that old stuff, they will be rocking in their wheelchairs.
I might even enter "Britains got Talent" watch out Simon
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#328543 - 07/12/11 01:33 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia

Hi Lee,
that looks like a lot of fun if one can't sing in tune. I've got such a lousy voice , I don't think I'd even be game with that option. haa haa

I've never tried using a vocalizer on the pa800 ( totally wasted on me) , but what would be the difference between that and what's in the Korg? I was just browsing the pa3x manual & noticed it had some sort of pitch correction onboard, I gather the PA2x had it also??
I can't try it coz I don't own a mic.
Originally Posted By: leeboy


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#328544 - 07/12/11 02:45 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: rikkisbears]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
Is this real done on the T4 ??
And how ??

Impuls grin
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#328545 - 07/12/11 03:20 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 698
Loc: Russia
Singing is not always about vocal capabilities look for example at Joe Dassin who has not very powerful voice but he is loved by lots of people (I know he’s dead now BTW). And what this man showed in this video is mostly fun but I don’t think that singing is about that. I think that it’s rather a wrong track.

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#328547 - 07/12/11 04:35 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Songman55]
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3163
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Songman55
Maybe I'm missing something here but what are you doing in the music business if you can't sing on pitch?

Joe


I've heard plenty of "singers" that can't sing on pitch and on top of it get paid a lot of money.

Actually, you've got to remember, this is mainly intended for fun use in the home. Or is it? I could use it as I'm an instrumentalist.


Edited by Scott Langholff (07/12/11 04:58 AM)

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#328548 - 07/12/11 04:36 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Scott Langholff]
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3163
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Maybe I can sing after all. Wonder how much this little addition will cost? I used to work with Craig in the '80's. Great guy and fantastic musician.

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#328549 - 07/12/11 05:54 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Scott Langholff]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Lets all wait and see, it might just be for fun, but hell that guy can sing less in tune than me, so I am going to sound like Sinatra, well maybe not.
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#328551 - 07/12/11 06:23 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 306
Loc: NL
It sure sounds great but I would not call it 'pitch correction'. His voice is way too far off pitch.
In my view the following takes place :
There is a midifile playing, midi melodyline is used for setting the right pitch, independent from what note he is actually singing.
With his left hand fingers the next melody note is started. (single step trigger)

I expect this feature will be only available for midifile 'players' ;-)

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#328552 - 07/12/11 06:31 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: kla4]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: kla4
It sure sounds great but I would not call it 'pitch correction'. His voice is way too far off pitch.
In my view the following takes place :
There is a midifile playing, midi melodyline is used for setting the right pitch, independent from what note he is actually singing.
With his left hand fingers the next melody note is started. (single step trigger)

I expect this feature will be only available for midifile 'players' ;-)


KLA,

You have really put a dampener on it now, I was looking forward to singing like Pavarotti
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#328554 - 07/12/11 06:55 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
At one time I owned a vocal harmonizer that had pitch correction--it was a feature I didn't need, but out of curiousity I tried it out. It followed the chords perfectly. This was a decade or more ago, and the device would only correct up to certain amount, but it did an excellent job within its range.

I don't think this is a hoax, it's just improved technology.

Thanks for the link--it's another WOW factor for arranger keyboard technology.

P.S.: I already sound like Roger Whitiker, at least that's what the ladies tell me. wink

Gary cool
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#328558 - 07/12/11 07:06 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: travlin'easy]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
At one time I owned a vocal harmonizer that had pitch correction--it was a feature I didn't need, but out of curiousity I tried it out. It followed the chords perfectly. This was a decade or more ago, and the device would only correct up to certain amount, but it did an excellent job within its range.

I don't think this is a hoax, it's just improved technology.

Thanks for the link--it's another WOW factor for arranger keyboard technology.

P.S.: I already sound like Roger Whitiker, at least that's what the ladies tell me. wink



Gary cool



Gary,

Pity you can't spell Roger Whittaker right but why should you its Englosh and who am I to tell you
I miss letters and words out all the time, Gary in UK your name is Gazoh, and you are right technology with the T4 is breaking the rules.


Tell you what Gazoh, SZ feels nice now, some good things popping up all the time now, free and easy on SZ

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328559 - 07/12/11 07:14 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Joe,
In the music business...who said everyone here is in the music business???
And who says ALL arranger players or any keyboard for that matter can sing or even wants to??

There are LOTS of folks that wouls sing some, if they could....this is a breakthrough technology. BY YAMAHA ONLY.
Also, This is a hobby for me and others....
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Lee S.

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#328560 - 07/12/11 07:21 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Gang, some of you...go back and read my post again and then watch it again.
Craig is a Yamaha heavy hitter like Martin harris, he programs and develops software & styles, sounds etc.

And IMHO, why could not anyone use this for any purpose they want??
I heard him sing a little last night and he is not a great singer....but with this, anyone can sing right on pitch every note.

Rikki, YES you could do this. The tone of his voice, and other nuances come from him, BUT the pich comes from the note he is playing on the keyboard.

This is only a prototype, it is on the T4 right now (as the demo shows) but the VH2 HW allows him to do this programming and he told me it is very capable HW ,,,,,just needs mor programming to use it's full potential.

A way we can help get this is go to the youtube demo and sign in and comment. He will then take this to Yamaha for a commitment to add this feature.
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Lee S.

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#328561 - 07/12/11 07:25 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
No TC Helicon can not do this...I asked them at the Sweetwater gearfest and via their support group.
This is something I asked for for years....a way for us that can not sing well to be able to have pitch correction.

ALSO, watch the demo again...one very big feature is this is not hard tune...the slider he uses determines the AMOUNT of correction.
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Lee S.

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#328562 - 07/12/11 07:42 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Leeboy,

I am as happy as you about this, I think this will end up selling lots more T4 and what's is wrong with that, thanks for posting it.
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#328563 - 07/12/11 07:46 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2781
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
Quote:
This is only a prototype, it is on the T4 right now


I'm confused, is it a prototype, or is it on the T-4 right now?

Simple question, can Tony currently use this on his T-4, to sing like Gary?




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Hawk Music
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#328564 - 07/12/11 07:54 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: lahawk]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Larry,

This chap is the top Yamaha man on software, it's his job to make T4 better, to my knowledge its not on my T4, let me say I haven't tried it yet.

Tony

Listen to the video all the way through, I think it will be a patch you can buy.


Edited by Tony Hughes (07/12/11 08:02 AM)
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#328566 - 07/12/11 08:11 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2781
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
So if I'm understanding it correctly, the basic setup is already on the T-4 harmonizer, but you won't achieve the results shown on the video until if, and when Yamaha decides to release this addition to the VH.

Interesting to see if will be T-4 compatible only, or a stand alone program for use on other VH keyboards.
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#328567 - 07/12/11 08:54 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Songman55]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
HI Joe,

In general I agree with you. I feel I sing dead on in pitch, however not across the entire vocal range and sometimes not in all phrasings. Maybe it's vocal training or lack thereof, but there are times while I'm playing I could use some correcting to help out.

And if this does pitch correction, then I'm sure it can produce some T-Pain effects and vocal stepping to add some interesting modern effects to the vocals.
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Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#328578 - 07/12/11 10:47 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
msutliff Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 640
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Originally Posted By: leeboy
....BUT the pich comes from the note he is playing on the keyboard.


So what is happening when he presses the wrong notes? Or, when he presses the same key on the keyboard for each different notes that he sings?

Watch it again.

And don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued by this technology (another challenged singer here). But I would have like to seen the keys being pressed to align with the notes being sung.

-mike

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#328580 - 07/12/11 11:05 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
And he's playing with one finger. What happens in style play mode when you're using full fisted chords in the left hand? Then when you get into rootless chords, altered chords, etc., what then? Surely, no-one sings AND plays the melody at the same time, do they? This, to me, smacks of being just another 'golly gee' sales gimmick. Spend the money on singing lessons, folks.

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#328581 - 07/12/11 11:07 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: msutliff]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: msutliff
Originally Posted By: leeboy
....BUT the pich comes from the note he is playing on the keyboard.


So what is happening when he presses the wrong notes? Or, when he presses the same key on the keyboard for each different notes that he sings?

Watch it again.

And don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued by this technology (another challenged singer here). But I would have like to seen the keys being pressed to align with the notes being sung.

-mike



Mike,

I don't think yamaha are in the con business do you, I think it is a upcoming product.


Tony
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#328582 - 07/12/11 11:12 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Beakybird Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2227
That's pretty amazing.

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#328585 - 07/12/11 11:22 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
That is amazing.

I believe he was hitting the keys to advance the midi file.

I suspect we'll see it as an upload for Tyros4 (and maybe the new PSR).

Ian
_________________________
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#328587 - 07/12/11 12:07 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
montunoman Offline
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Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
I'm really curious what this could do for a very average singer like me. I have pretty good pitch but no vibrato or nice tone.

Also I personally wouldn't want to sing in public if none of my natural voice is retained. I'd like something that enhances my voice not replaces it.
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#328590 - 07/12/11 12:35 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
My ROLAND VP770 (and the VP550 before it) does all this and 10 times more, including being a world class vocal harmonizer, a superior vocoder, a decent synth, and a good controller for my BK7m arranger module. It also plays wav's and mp3's with highly synced part markers for to up to 16 parts assigned to the bottom 16 keys of the (very good feeling) keyboard. It has so many other features that would make it a dream machine for poor-singing arranger players, but poor marketing has made it a 'best kept secret' in all but the top end of the music industry. Many well known touring professionals have it in their arsenal and those who have taken the time to explore it, learn it, and are open-minded enough to recognize it's potential, love it. One downside; it ain't cheap (@ $2100 usd). Oh, did I mention that it has 'Supernatural Brass', a Roland feature that operates like the brass on no other synth. Also, great strings and choirs. Oh yeah, auto chord follow, and auto harmony creation from the note you sing (with no keyboard input - plus these modes can be combined, if desired). With this KB, you can literally 'talk' the lyrics (and key the melody) and it will do the rest. This board goes WAYYYYYY beyond pitch correction. You won't be able to see all the benefits and features from a store demonstration; you really need to do some serious research and spend some quality time with it.

Don't want this post to sound like a super testimonial/promotional/sales pitch, like so many of the T4 posts (which, frankly, is starting to get a little annoying -we get it; the T4 is the end-all of the entire music world). This (VP770) is a seriously good instrument for those who need this type of keyboard and are willing to make the investment in time to learn to use it.

chas
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#328591 - 07/12/11 12:37 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes

Well Joe,
there you go we are all not as well blessed vocally as you, some of us have not had the professional voice training like you, some of us can just about get away with saying we can sing, especially when we sing in front of old people who are part deaf or tone deaf. Joe if the technology is there Yamaha will use it to sell KBS what wrong with that. Don’t you use echo or reverberation on your KB or is that you straight voice. Life has moved on from the Bontempi , C3 etc, spring reverberation units and copy cat tape echo.


Tonyneeeeeeeeeeeee!

There you are pitch perfect joe.


Anyone can sing...it is just many should NOT!! Including quite a few on this forum.

Software like this, same as auto-tune and others, should be banned from all but those people who sing ONLY at home for their personal enjoyment/pastime.

I agree with the post that if you are a pro singer, this software should be TOTALLY redundant. Reverb and other ambience effects are okay imho as they are merely enhancements, NOT correctional tools.

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#328595 - 07/12/11 01:12 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: miden]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Miden


I make it 10 to 1 in favor of the gizmos, anyway you don’t need to turn it on if your voice is so perfect and we haven’t heard you sing yet on SZ, we only have your word for it. It least Joe did the sing.
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#328597 - 07/12/11 01:17 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Joe,
In the music business...who said everyone here is in the music business???
And who says ALL arranger players or any keyboard for that matter can sing or even wants to??

There are LOTS of folks that wouls sing some, if they could....this is a breakthrough technology. BY YAMAHA ONLY.
Also, This is a hobby for me and others....


That's the basic idea, Lee...probably for "home" users, but there are pros who use pitch correct all the time in studios (and "live" as well), so I can see Tyros4 users/singers taking advantage of it when out performing "live".

Definitely a "breakthrough".

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328599 - 07/12/11 01:21 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Miden


I make it 10 to 1 in favor of the gizmos, anyway you don’t need to turn it on if your voice is so perfect and we haven’t heard you sing yet on SZ, we only have your word for it. It least Joe did the sing.


I have never made any claims whatsoever in ALL my time in this place about my own abilities. For the most part it is a waste of time with the egos and "personalities" that seem to haunt it.

I stand by my comment, and Joes, that ANY person claiming to be a professional singer that "NEEDS" any sort of auto tuning or pitch correctional device, should not be claiming such a thing. End of!!

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#328600 - 07/12/11 01:25 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: miden]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Miden


I make it 10 to 1 in favor of the gizmos, anyway you don’t need to turn it on if your voice is so perfect and we haven’t heard you sing yet on SZ, we only have your word for it. It least Joe did the sing.


I have never made any claims whatsoever in ALL my time in this place about my own abilities. For the most part it is a waste of time with the egos and "personalities" that seem to haunt it.

I stand by my comment, and Joes, that ANY person claiming to be a professional singer that "NEEDS" any sort of auto tuning or pitch correctional device, should not be claiming such a thing. End of!!



Why are so many people in fear of progress,because that what this is and Yamaha lead the field.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328601 - 07/12/11 01:34 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes


Why are so many people in fear of progress,because that what this is and Yamaha lead the field.



What is funny, Tony, is that "pitch correction" is used by many professionals in the studio...and quite often in "live" performances.

It's hardly "progress", and more like "keeping up" with the norm.

It is nice to see Yamaha be the first to implement such a powerful arranger tool for both amateurs and pros.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328602 - 07/12/11 01:40 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
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Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
_________________________
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#328603 - 07/12/11 01:43 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes


That was lovely!
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328604 - 07/12/11 01:44 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Every home should have one!
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328605 - 07/12/11 01:54 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Every home should have one!


My home will...all you need is a Tyros4, and I've got that covered.

It will be a real hit at clinics.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328606 - 07/12/11 02:04 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Ian,

It will sell more T4 without a doubt

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328607 - 07/12/11 02:07 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
Too Funny!!!

Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#328612 - 07/12/11 02:16 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: montunoman]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Originally Posted By: montunoman
I'm really curious what this could do for a very average singer like me. I have pretty good pitch but no vibrato or nice tone.

Also I personally wouldn't want to sing in public if none of my natural voice is retained. I'd like something that enhances my voice not replaces it.


Paul, you already have those options available on your keyboard's vocal processor. You can really enhance your vocals by going into the Mic Setting/Vocal Harmony program, then save the settings to a registration specifically designated for that purpose. You can add depth, reverb, echo, change the EQs, and many, many other things that deal with vocals.

Good Luck,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#328613 - 07/12/11 02:48 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Wow SZ looks now like a promoting site for Yamaha.

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#328615 - 07/12/11 02:58 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
So the $100,000 question? When do we get the update??


Edited by kbrkr (07/12/11 03:02 PM)
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#328616 - 07/12/11 03:00 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
And what will the price be?

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#328619 - 07/12/11 03:30 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: 124]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi

probably a really silly question, but,
if one has a bad voice & doesn't sing in tune,
how loud would you have to turn up the keyboard to drown out your own voice to be able to hear the perfect voice coming thru the Tyros. Like if you're singing, you can't exactly whisper.
(I'm sort of refering to home use)

I sold my acoustic piano years ago & bought a digital so I wouldn't annoy the rest of the household & neighbours with my practice.
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Rikki 🧸

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#328620 - 07/12/11 03:53 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Tony,
Your welcome...
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328621 - 07/12/11 03:56 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Kla4,
Watch again, it it his RIGHT hand that is setting the note value....You could play a style or a MIDI with it...would not matter.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328622 - 07/12/11 04:03 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
OK, we don't know all the details of how it works...Craig has developed it, nevertheless.
My God his voice sounds super....so go to the youtube video, signup and vote to have it...whether you have a T4 or not. That is what he is looking for..SUPPORT for this so Yamaha WILL approve it for T4 and ??

I don't know the details...all he told me last night was he developed the software to do this, IT IS NOT ON THE T4 today.
If you want it...go support him.

Meanwhile, I will conytact him and see IF he will tell me how it works.
IF this becomes available I will buy a T4, 100% for sure. I would have a ball with this.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328623 - 07/12/11 04:06 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
montunoman,
I am not sure...but if I remmeber what he told me it IS HIS voice, through the VH2, This is not a vocoder, but his main lead is removed and the harmony is what you hear. I also thing he said you only get 2 harmony's with the feature instead of 3.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328624 - 07/12/11 04:08 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Chas,
I want to hear a demo of what you said...you sing WAY off pitch and I want to hear the machine put your voice right on the money...just like the demo Craig did.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328625 - 07/12/11 04:12 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Ian,
right on...and remmeber Craig is one smart cookie..I have known him (not well, but a few conversations and I bought his software for my Yamaha HS8-T organ) for almost 25 years.

He admits...he did this to sell more instruments...nothing wrong with that.

It is NOT approved to be added to T4 or anything yet..HE NEEDS our support and enthusiasm...or it may die on the vine.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328626 - 07/12/11 04:17 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Kla4, Actually I'm not sure how it works...and how hard or easy it is to use...but, he did show it working, and he would not do all this if the average player could not use it...
Maybe more for Karaoke, but I see it being a great fun tool.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328627 - 07/12/11 04:21 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Chas,
I want to hear a demo of what you said...you sing WAY off pitch and I want to hear the machine put your voice right on the money...just like the demo Craig did.


I'll second that request! And, post it on YouTube if you don't mind.

Cheers,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#328628 - 07/12/11 04:23 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
I just e-mailed Craig asking if he would share with us more of how it works and all the ways we can use it (MIDI, Styles etc).
I did not ask him about programming...more as a average T4 user, what do we do to use it.
We will see if he is willing to tell us at this time.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328629 - 07/12/11 04:24 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Ian,
right on...and remmeber Craig is one smart cookie..I have known him (not well, but a few conversations and I bought his software for my Yamaha HS8-T organ) for almost 25 years.

He admits...he did this to sell more instruments...nothing wrong with that.

It is NOT approved to be added to T4 or anything yet..HE NEEDS our support and enthusiasm...or it may die on the vine.


Craig is one clever lad, Lee...and it also goes to show that the Tyros4's VH-2 is not just a simple upgrade from the older harmonizer...I'm told it is all new.

He has my support...I've already posted on YouTube.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328631 - 07/12/11 04:45 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Kla4,
Watch again, it it his RIGHT hand that is setting the note value....You could play a style or a MIDI with it...would not matter.


I think he is using either the Tyros4's P.A.T. (Performance Assistant Technology) or "Karao-Key" (another song playback feature on T4) to set the melody notes for his voice, but, I am just guessing.

It will be very interesting to learn exactly how it is being done.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328632 - 07/12/11 05:00 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2781
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.



Rikki, Good question on how loud one has to be to over ride your natural voice. In the video I could not hear his natural voice until he lowered the slider, and he did not sound like he was singing overly loud.. I would imagine it would take a little experimenting to figure out how to adjust the settings to achieve the best effect.

I know there are those who object to this enhancement, and at one time I was one of them, but I have changed. Do you really think that those million plus selling albums were all made without some type of pitch correction? Producers aim for perfect pitch, even if it means "cheating" a little. It's what the entertainment buisness is. Most movies would not be as good without enhancements, as most song recordings would not be good without enhancements.

It appears to be a fun product and for many they'll have agood time with it.

That's Entertainment!


_________________________
Larry "Hawk"

Hawk Music
Sadly No More frown

♫ 🎹🎹 ♫ SX-900




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#328634 - 07/12/11 05:27 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Larry,
The way he explained it to me at the basic level is...when he lowers the slider the pitch correction gradually goes away and you hear his real voice theough the sound system.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328636 - 07/12/11 05:51 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Were having fun here...so I'm going to take a stab at how this works....
He plays a MIDI file, it is using guide mode (I think that's what you call it) the T4 is waiting for a key stroke, when he hits a key the next MIDI channel 4 (maybe 1) controls the pitch correction function he added. The lead note sets the pitch for the vocal VH2...processor. It uses the audio from his voice, but, not the main voice, but one of the harmony channels to create the great in pitch sounds...When he moves the slider he is controlling the ratio between the main voice audio on the T4 and the harmony channel.

We'll see how close I am. I could be off as much as my way out of tune singing is!!
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328638 - 07/12/11 06:21 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted By: leeboy
IF this becomes available I will buy a T4, 100% for sure. I would have a ball with this.


This has been the first thing that I have heard on the Tyros 4 that really makes me want to get one.

I would have to know if/how it works with style mode. It looks like he singing along with a SMF and playing the melody. That wouldn't be fun for me.


Edited by montunoman (07/12/11 06:32 PM)
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#328639 - 07/12/11 07:48 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Lee and Gary. There are plenty of demos of this capability on the VP770, starting with the Roland site. Why would I make something like this up? Everyone is so busy oooohing and awwwwing over this that they conveniently overlooked everything I said. Since Roland has had this for at least 2, maybe 3 generations now, it's just pure BS to say that "Yamaha is leading the field" in this - just more self-promoting hogwash featuring the 'usual suspects'. In fact, it seems YAMAHA is not behind this at all, just one lone wolf employee. I'm betting a dollar to a donut that this feature never shows up on a Yamaha arranger, ESPECIALLY AS A FREE SOFTWARE UPDATE.

The VP770 will not only do what was done in that video, but everything else I said in my previous post plus a TON more, such as an audio recorder and what is effectively an audio version of a 'chord sequencer'. There is another couple that are members here on SZ (though they haven't posted in awhile) that also own a VP770 and who I am sure will verify everything I have said (or just call your friendly Roland rep and ask him - if you can find one that knows the VP770 and it's capabilities). Like me, they upgraded from the VP550 (which would also do what was done in the video). The number of features added in that upgrade is nothing short of phenomenal.

BTW, Frans was right when he said this was just becoming one big Yamaha promotional site. It seems like no matter what the post topic, the greatness of Yamaha and especially the T4, worms it's way into it. Maybe Nigel should split the GENERAL ARRANGER forum into two parts, Yamaha and Everything else, that way us 'Everything else' folks wouldn't have to be constantly bombarded with a steady stream of marketing propaganda blowing down from the north.

And BTW, Lee and Gary. Your posts sounded a lot more like "Oh yeah, prove it" than "Gee, thanks for the information, I didn't know that". But maybe I'm just being too sensitive.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328640 - 07/12/11 07:56 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Lee and Gary. Here's an even better idea. If you can, get in touch with Craig Knudsen of Yamaha and ASK HIM if what he demo'd could be done on a Roland VP770. I'm confident that he knows his competitors product well enough to give you an informed answer and honest enough to tell you the truth (since you obviously don't trust what I say).

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328642 - 07/12/11 09:07 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: lahawk]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Larry,

actually I think it's brilliant. If I had a T4, I'd get the option , just for the fun of it, even if I didn't get to use it much. One thing for sure, it would freak out the family, me singing. haahaa

[quote=lahawk]


Rikki, Good question on how loud one has to be to over ride your natural voice. In the video I could not hear his natural voice until he lowered the slider, and he did not sound like he was singing overly loud.. I would imagine it would take a little experimenting to figure out how to adjust the settings to achieve the best effect.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#328644 - 07/12/11 09:37 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Craig has developed it
My God his voice sounds super....

WHAT?!?
No "HIS" voice does not sound like anything - it's digitized. All he does is provide the syllables and duration - the tone, the character , vibrato - everything you hear is the software simulation....it's not his voice made better - it's his voice being HID. I admit, it is a good resample, or whatever the term is, these days, but it's not correction - the kb makes the sound and the pitch. Remember - he turns his voice all the way off with the slider during the parts that you all seem to like. It's a clever gimmick - a lot like the Barry White voice that I've had for years. It removes me from the mix altogether and only plays the octave below.


Edited by Uncle Dave (07/12/11 09:41 PM)
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#328645 - 07/12/11 09:42 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
UD....He told me the tone is his, it is not a vocoder.
We hear his voive not a instument/voice on the T4 .

Chas. doesn't matter if the VP-770 is not an arranger, I could care less what it does. From what I saw/heard it is not an arranger and I did not thisnk the sounds of the singing was all that goos...sounded pretty digital.

I will tell Craig to check out the VP-770 as it may give him additional ideas.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328646 - 07/12/11 09:55 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: cgiles]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: cgiles
My ROLAND VP770 (and the VP550 before it) does all this and 10 times more, including being a world class vocal harmonizer, a superior vocoder, a decent synth, and a good controller for my BK7m arranger module. It also plays wav's and mp3's with highly synced part markers for to up to 16 parts assigned to the bottom 16 keys of the (very good feeling) keyboard. It has so many other features that would make it a dream machine for poor-singing arranger players, but poor marketing has made it a 'best kept secret' in all but the top end of the music industry. Many well known touring professionals have it in their arsenal and those who have taken the time to explore it, learn it, and are open-minded enough to recognize it's potential, love it. One downside; it ain't cheap (@ $2100 usd). Oh, did I mention that it has 'Supernatural Brass', a Roland feature that operates like the brass on no other synth. Also, great strings and choirs. Oh yeah, auto chord follow, and auto harmony creation from the note you sing (with no keyboard input - plus these modes can be combined, if desired). With this KB, you can literally 'talk' the lyrics (and key the melody) and it will do the rest. This board goes WAYYYYYY beyond pitch correction. You won't be able to see all the benefits and features from a store demonstration; you really need to do some serious research and spend some quality time with it.

Don't want this post to sound like a super testimonial/promotional/sales pitch, like so many of the T4 posts (which, frankly, is starting to get a little annoying -we get it; the T4 is the end-all of the entire music world). This (VP770) is a seriously good instrument for those who need this type of keyboard and are willing to make the investment in time to learn to use it.

chas





Chas..you are correct...and the G70 also has the same capabilities...I have preached for years ..telling everyone.Roland has the best "smart" harmonizer in the business...I am amazed how little folks that claimed to try the G70..really know.. grin
_________________________
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#328647 - 07/12/11 10:06 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
UD....He told me the tone is his, it is not a vocoder.
We hear his voive not a instument/voice on the T4 .

Chas. doesn't matter if the VP-770 is not an arranger, I could care less what it does. From what I saw/heard it is not an arranger and I did not thisnk the sounds of the singing was all that goos...sounded pretty digital.



Well said, Lee. Methinks the Tyros4 harmonizer is far beyond what we expected, and Craig is proving that point.

The VP-770 not only isn't an arranger, but it is limited to a meagre 49-note keyboard and digital sounding voices.

The Tyros4 harmonizer is far more useful to an arranger player than the VP-770.

I am looking forward to any more information you can get from Craig.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328648 - 07/12/11 10:16 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: travlin'easy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Chas,
I want to hear a demo of what you said...you sing WAY off pitch and I want to hear the machine put your voice right on the money...just like the demo Craig did.


I'll second that request! And, post it on YouTube if you don't mind.

Cheers,

Gary cool


I'll add my vote to yours and Lee's, Gary, but I have a feeling that we may be waiting a very long time...obviously talk is cheap.

Craig put his demo where everyone could see and hear the power of his software, and also demonstrating the Tyros4's VH-2 is more than a mere upgrade from the previous harmonizer.

It would be nice if the VH-2 finds it's way to the upcoming PSR-S-series and CVP Clavinovas.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328650 - 07/12/11 11:19 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944

This must be the fastest moving post ever and it’s so nice to see more people getting involved with a rational manner, good old SZ back on track, lots to talk about, feels pleasant now.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328651 - 07/12/11 11:34 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
rolandfan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 935
Loc: South Africa
Its spreading like wild fire

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#328652 - 07/13/11 12:19 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: rolandfan]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: rolandfan
Its spreading like wild fire


Wow! 980 views at my last count.

Definitely lots of interest in Craig's software.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328657 - 07/13/11 03:50 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944


Ian,

Well this is the best thing that’s been on SZ for a while and good it is too. I’ll bet you are glad you are associated with one of the best KBs ever.
Ian I have tried singing on the T4 this morning and I think I am as good as Joe, does this mean I can entertain the old folks, still not as good as Miden on the old vocals, get the new T4 software and hell , Britain’s Got Talent for me.

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328659 - 07/13/11 04:04 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
I showed this demo to my wife and she exclaimed; "You mean this could make me sound normal when I sing and not feel embarrassed?".

This is exactly the customer Yamaha should target with this feature. I think any tool which can get more and more mainstream people involved with music is a great thing.
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#328660 - 07/13/11 04:10 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: kbrkr]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944


Al,

20 out of 10 I'll go with that, not sure I would let my missus loose on the T4, or drive my car.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328663 - 07/13/11 04:39 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: leeboy

Chas. doesn't matter if the VP-770 is not an arranger, I could care less what it does.


Then why ask me to demo it? I never said it was an arranger; only that it was a keyboard that had that capability. Uncle Dave is right, in that, like the VP770, it uses a combination of your voice and the note played as formant and carrier to form the 'new' voice you hear. On the VP770 there are many, many parameters available to modify the characteristics of the newly formed voice. You can add as much or as little of your own voice into the mix as you like. If, by chance, you CAN sing reasonably on-key, mixing some of your own voice in can add more 'flavor' to the mix, especially if you are doing harmony as well. Of course, none of this matters if you are only interested in this feature as an add-on to a T4. However, since SZ is made up of more than just Yamaha T4 owners, despite their posting dominance, I thought I'd just include information on another product that had a similar capability (and was already available). Since I have no stake, monetary or otherwise, in Roland, I was not PUSHING Roland products, just providing additional information related to the subject originally posted. I have no history of shilling for Roland, so I could care less if you go out and buy a Roland product. I thought the whole idea of a forum was to provide as much information as possible on a given subject. What they choose to do with that information is up to them.

After Lee and Gary's 'challenge' to my information, it was no surprise to see the usual 'piling on'. I'm still hopeful that some of you will actually READ what's posted here, sort through the propaganda, ignore the thinly-veiled barbs, and not be so easily taken in by glib opportunist who seize every chance to promote their product and attack anyone who dares suggest that there might be life outside of planet Yamaha. Personally, I think Yamaha makes a fine product, not so sure about those who shill for it.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328665 - 07/13/11 05:19 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: cgiles]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Chas,

Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328666 - 07/13/11 05:35 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical.


Tony, tell her I was looking for something demonic, and your picture wasn't available at the time.

smile

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328667 - 07/13/11 05:48 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: cgiles]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Chas,

I already told her it was someone who lost the plot, she is 10 and she agreed thats what see thought too.



Your have control Chas:

QNH 1015 - Wind 230 @ 30 knots, mind the wind shear on finals.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328668 - 07/13/11 05:53 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
Chas,

I wasn't going to comment on either yours or FransN comments because they are meant to inflame and goad people into a negative discussion regarding brand preference and will only turn into a pissing contest.

This thread was an honest discussion regarding a really cool feature; it had nothing to do with brand loyalty and it had nothing derogatory towards you or FransN or the keyboards you love. Yet, you have successfully turned the spirit of this thread negative.

Other people on this forum have recently been banned because of derogatory and flaming remarks, but it now appears we have others here who have not gotten the message. If you had a valid point regarding other keyboards Vocal Processor capabilities; leave it at that. Why attack the members here who have a different keyboard with differing views?
And your comment to Tony regarding his picture really highlights your negativity. I don't appreciate this kind of behavior and I wish you would stop it.
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#328669 - 07/13/11 05:58 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: kbrkr]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944


Al,

Thanks for that I agree with you, this was a bloody good post and we have all learned from it, I am looking forward to seeing the finish product, I have figured out the members out by now, and I know who I won't be inviting around for tea. Not at least to frighten the crap out of everybody.

Cheers Al
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328671 - 07/13/11 06:27 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
Princess Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Chas,

Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical.


thankyou Mr Tony Hughes....Your my kind of Guy... Paula
_________________________
My Keyboards is how I drive my Husband NUTS!!!

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#328672 - 07/13/11 06:44 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Princess]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: Princess
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Chas,

Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical.


thankyou Mr Tony Hughes....Your my kind of Guy... Paula



Paula,
Thank You.
In the UK most of us treat ladies like ladies and I am sure they do in the states, but in the recent past SZ is not a place I would want my wife to wander into, let’s not go mad I am not saying it’s foul, but it could be much better and there have been some …….. words. I loved it when I saw your face and I though wow we are going to get some good chat now and seeing you can keep the lid on it, well let’s hope you are not put off and I for one would like to hear more from you. My wife once open SZ by mistake and I can’t type what she said about it. There is a lot to learn and there are a handful of very experienced and helpful people on SZ.

Very Kind Regards Paula

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328673 - 07/13/11 06:52 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Al, sounds like you're another that didn't bother to thoroughly read my posts. Pity. There was lots of good information there for those that may not have known about this keyboard. Of course, if you're pre-disposed to looking for something negative in ANYthing I post, what can I say. As for Tony's picture, TONY was the one who brought up the subject of avatars, a point conveniently overlooked. And anyone except someone looking for something negative would recognize that my response to Tony's remark about my avatar was nothing more than a good-natured, humorous retort. My oh my, you guys do love to rush in to a feeding frenzy. Also, I'm not overly concerned about what you do and don't appreciate. Don't like my posts, don't read them.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328674 - 07/13/11 07:39 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: cgiles]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
There is nothing to find on you-tube,of the same quality of pitch correction,no Roland,Korg,Tc H, etc,etc.
They all sound "robotic"synthy.
The T4 example is realy the first of this quality !
It sound real naturally without distortion.

Impuls grin
_________________________
Genos2,Yamaha YC61, Ventilator2 . : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA

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#328675 - 07/13/11 08:08 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I may be in the minority, but I thought Chas offered an unbiased alternative to the T4 plugin. He didn't say it was better than the T4 as a whole, but rather contained an equal or better vocoder.

In researching the VP770, I was quite surprised eventhough it is not an arranger.
Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#328677 - 07/13/11 08:16 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I agree that the quality shown in the Yamaha demo is indeed better than that on the VP770. However, it is (probably) not 'pitch correction' as we know it, as even multi-thousand dollar pro studio units won't do pitch correction over that great a range. I suspect it is technology similar to Roland's, except that it sounds better. Of course, at this point, it's only vaporware but would be a nice feature as an inexpensive software update on an existing keyboard. One question would be, how do different voices effect the final 'voice'. Also, is this limited to a single voice or can this also generate harmony parts in the same (or other) voices? Guess those questions won't be answered until this project is picked up by Yamaha, developed, and made available to it's customers. Hope that happens sooner than later. Maybe they'll make it available for my T2. Nah.



chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328680 - 07/13/11 09:06 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Princess]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Princess
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Chas,

Just as I thought we had turned a corner on SZ and we have ladies posting, first time I have seen, people I have never heard of before post now and we are back on the same old bandwagon, this thread was OK until now, guns drawn at dawn is not what this is about. Chas I understand you were a pilot like me, hell glad you are retired wouldn’t like a tongue-lashing with air traffic control would you, just to get a landing slot. Chas, my granddaughter saw your photo on the screen just now, I tried to explain why you put it there and I could not think of one good reason, if you tell me I will tell her as long as it is logical.


thankyou Mr Tony Hughes....Your my kind of Guy... Paula


You're right Paula, Tony is one of the "good guys" on the forum, and a perfect gentleman...plus he's a real PILOT as well.

I am also very pleased to see another lady posting, and I am sure Rikki and Elizabeth are glad to have you aboard.

Welcome to SZ.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328684 - 07/13/11 10:11 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Princess Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Michigan
Hi Tony and Ian;
I've enjoyed this forum for years, I joined back in 2007. I did back off of my activity here because of the bickering and little jabs that were thrown around.... I'm really not that thin skined or sensative about things said, after all it is only the internet !! But after awhile the sniping gets real old and takes away from the pleasant conversation and I actually hesitated from asking questions because I thought some would make a comment that the question was foolish. So Thanks for the warm welcome back and I'm sure we'll help keep this forum as it's founder intended... "Fun and Informative"

Princess
_________________________
My Keyboards is how I drive my Husband NUTS!!!

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#328685 - 07/13/11 10:17 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Jackieh Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 27
Princess-as a new member I 2nd what you said---

Great Day!!

Jack

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#328686 - 07/13/11 10:55 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Princess]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Originally Posted By: Princess
"Fun and Informative"

Hi Princess, words well said.
I'm really glad to see you back.
Welcome to new member Jack as well.

Scott cool

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#328688 - 07/13/11 11:07 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2781
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
Welcome back Princess, and welcome new member Jack
_________________________
Larry "Hawk"

Hawk Music
Sadly No More frown

♫ 🎹🎹 ♫ SX-900




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#328691 - 07/13/11 11:20 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Scottyee]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
I am reading and writing this with difficulty using a small handheld device from a hospital bed. I have had to apply a couple of temp bans to avoid any more hijacking in my absence. I will evaluate this when I get back to a computer next week.

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#328693 - 07/13/11 11:56 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Princess Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Michigan
Nigel, Get well soon, we hate to see a good man down :~)
My prayers are with you.
Princess
_________________________
My Keyboards is how I drive my Husband NUTS!!!

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#328694 - 07/13/11 12:01 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Same here Nigel...get well and get back soon. I hope it is nothing serious.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328695 - 07/13/11 12:11 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: ianmcnll]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
Nigel, Get well ASAP.

Now again ON-TOPIC Please

I want to know if this is real ??????? on the T4 !
bluesbros

Impuls


Edited by Impuls (07/13/11 12:12 PM)
_________________________
Genos2,Yamaha YC61, Ventilator2 . : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA

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#328702 - 07/13/11 01:36 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Impuls, as far as we know right now, this is just a prototype.

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#328706 - 07/13/11 01:49 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
but does this work with styles with brand new songs?

question is,
do we have to prepare the song with a special melody midi track beforehand?
or do we have to play the melody along while singing?
or hold-hit the melody note with RH?

if answer is YES to any question above,
then this "plugin" is not practical for live use for those who actually play their arrangers "normally"

just my $0.02

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#328707 - 07/13/11 02:03 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Chas,

I was hoping to hear something from you that was different than what the OP contained, but I guess that's not gonna' happen. Over the past couple decades I've played around with just about every vocal processor made and I have yet to hear one that provided vocal quality remotely close to what the OP posted. When you posted the information about the Roland I first thought that maybe something may have changed, but after listening to the Roland demos that was obviously not the case. I asked that YOU demo the VP-770 and assumed from YOUR post that YOU owned one and could provide the forum with a demo of how it sounds, with and without the processor--just as the OP link provided.

I don't think this has anything to do with Yamaha. From my perspective it's a great, technological advancement in vocal processing through the use of very creative software. And, I suspect the same technology could be applied not only to Yamaha, but other arrangers and synths as well. In this particular instance, the software creator just happened to apply this to a Tyros4. I, for one, applaud such advancements and applaud those who have provided us with the fruits of their labor.

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#328708 - 07/13/11 02:17 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Chas....let's see last tine I looked this was a GENERAL ARRANGER FORUM.
So if someone is excited about a new feature possibility on an ARRANGER....why would you get into this pissing contest about something else?
Yes, this is a Yamaha possible feature, so what, If it was Korg I would be just as excited...BUT, since it is Yamaha....sure Yamaha supporters are going to be excited and supportive...so what???

On this forum exists a very nice feature...if you don'yt have interest or don't in any way like a post...JUST IGNORE it and continue on.

Seems like when ever we get someting positive going one of only a very few just want to cause problems, it gets old.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328711 - 07/13/11 02:44 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy


If it was Korg I would be just as excited...BUT, since it is Yamaha....sure Yamaha supporters are going to be excited and supportive...so what???

Seems like when ever we get someting positive going one of only a very few just want to cause problems, it gets old.


You know Lee, I'd feel the same excitement if this technology was shown on a Korg arranger. It would raise the bar, and force Korg's competitors (Yamaha, Roland etc.) to play catch up, and who benefits? We the player/user/buyer.

Competition is good for us all.

Let's hope the thread continues in a positive light, and there are no more unnecessary hijacks.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328712 - 07/13/11 02:46 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Gary, I guess you missed the part where I acknowledged that the prototype demo as performed on the T4 sounded better than the Roland product.

Lee, yes this is an arranger forum, just as it was when we discussed all the other standalone vocal processors that we've discussed over the years. Didn't seem to bother anyone then. Don't suppose it's the messenger, do you? I'm guessing that nearly half of the people here own or have owned some kind of external voice processor/harmonizer. Well, that's what the VP770 is. The 'VP' stands for VOCAL PROCESSOR. So I guess you're saying that anyone who posts anything other than 'Woohoo, that's great', is a troublemaker who only wants to cause problems. I guess for people who only want to hear what they want to hear, that's true. Anyhow, hope your enthusiasm for this potential product is rewarded in a timely and affordable fashion. No harmful intent here.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328717 - 07/13/11 03:21 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Chas no that's not what I am saying...
I think we should support each others interest, no matter what brand ect...and sometimes I think some people just live to find a way to be negative. You made what has been posted here like no big deal you can already do that...well, everything so far I heard on the VP770 is not even close...but the real issue is this is a post about a new, possible feature for one of the most successful, most poular arranger keyboads alive today. This is further expanding the VH2 HW on the T4 (and soon the Clavinova 509 follow on model) Why always throw cold water on something fun & positive. The request for a demo based on what you said could be already done, was to hear how good/poor it is, not to say your info is incorrect. Peace.

This thread is specificaly about a Yamaha leading edge development I fould out about at a clinic, by a real top level Yamaha guy that has contributed lots of stuff to many Yamaha products....and it is on a very popular set of products, one being the T4. I just think it is very exciting that maybe, just maybe we could have something on an arranger for us in a group that are not really singers. I play arranger because I love to be a one man band and have some really great mucic coming from my limited musical training. I know that there are some here that are top notch performers, can sing, dance, play multiple instruments etc...but an arranger can also be used by home players to make some great music for us that are not gigging PRO musicians.
This feature would bring a lot of fun and a few laughs for us less fortunate that can not get the pitch right but would like to sing our favotite songs.

My concern now is that yamaha will ignore this great development and we will once again, like many things we have asked yamaha (and others as well) for, be left out. Lets hope that does not happen.
So, once again go to the web site and support the feature, even if you don't want it, or think it sucks...please help the rest of us out here. It only take a couple minutes to post a comment on Youtube....
As to affordability, I really don't know, but knowing Craig...he developed this to sell HW, not to make lots $$ on this fun feature...It could be free, or IMHO it will not be a lot of $$. To us that cannot sing well, and no lessons can fix that...I think we would pay something for it...me, maybe $100 - 200. depending on all the details of it's capability/
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328723 - 07/13/11 04:09 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Lee, thank you for softening the tone of your post and BTW, I agree with everything you said, except for the 'throwing cold water' part smile . I was merely trying to point out that the technology you fancied was already available (athough not as refined) in an existing product. I also listed some of it's other features and the fact that I use mine to control my BK7m arranger module which results in a decent arranger with a terrific harmonizer, you know, something that might interest someone who liked the feature but didn't own a T4. Nothing wrong with alternatives, right? Or having all the available infomation. I'm sorry if I put a damper on your enthuiasm for this product, but in reality, it doesn't really exist as a marketable product at this point. If you want me to go to the site and put in a plug for it, I will happily do so and for all the reasons you mentioned in your post above. Peace to you as well, my friend. Don't go entirely by my avatar; looks can be deceiving, believe me, I know.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328726 - 07/13/11 04:24 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leezone]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted By: leezone
but does this work with styles with brand new songs?

question is,
do we have to prepare the song with a special melody midi track beforehand?
or do we have to play the melody along while singing?
or hold-hit the melody note with RH?

if answer is YES to any question above,
then this "plugin" is not practical for live use for those who actually play their arrangers "normally"

just my $0.02




My feelings exactly. Hopefully we will know the answers soon!
_________________________
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#328730 - 07/13/11 04:31 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
...
I This thread is specificaly about a Yamaha leading edge development I fould out about at a clinic, by a real top level Yamaha guy that has contributed lots of stuff to many Yamaha products....and it is on a very popular set of products, one being the T4.


Lee, check your Private Messages, please.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328738 - 07/13/11 06:07 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Nigel]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Nigel,
how are you, hopefully nothing serious. Get well soon.

OK GUYS & GALS, lets behave. Nigel doesn't need us acting like a bunch of 5 year olds while he's not well.

Originally Posted By: Nigel
I am reading and writing this with difficulty using a small handheld device from a hospital bed. I have had to apply a couple of temp bans to avoid any more hijacking in my absence. I will evaluate this when I get back to a computer next week.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
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#328739 - 07/13/11 06:17 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Well apart from an in inordinate amount of "spiel", I guess it wasn't too bad. Although no demo of a faster lyric to show how quickly this will pitch correct without artefacts.

The pitch correct on the Pa3 Helicon Voice-live 2 will also do a similar job on very slow lyrics, as is the case with this demo. IN my view, it is still only a toy and a gimmick for home users, as any pro performer using this should be ashamed, and retire gracefully, but for the entertainment of home users of the predominantly home user base of Yamaha, it looks like a fun toy.

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#328740 - 07/13/11 06:28 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
Nigel, get well soon. At least they gave you your Smartphone!
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#328742 - 07/13/11 06:37 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: miden]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted By: miden
IN my view, it is still only a toy and a gimmick for home users, as any pro performer using this should be ashamed, and retire gracefully, but for the entertainment of home users of the predominantly home user base of Yamaha, it looks like a fun toy.


I really don't know if I agree or not, but I hear the top professional contemporary vocalists (even the good ones) use pitch correction. When I hear this I wonder "why?"
_________________________
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#328743 - 07/13/11 06:51 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
He gang ...don't take it too serious. I think Craigs intention is to have a feature that is fun....maybe not for a guy on stage!
He did Kookie Kaoreoke for the same reason.

For someone like me and I think thousands of others...it is very cool and useable in a specific scenario.

Remember we do not know just how it works yet, and maybe it's only the beginning of what will be done on the VH2/
These days HW is a given, it's the software and implementation that counts...That's what I do for a living, custom software in industrial environments.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328744 - 07/13/11 06:58 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
A fun toy, maybe, maybe not. I though Craigs singing of the national anthem sounded pretty professional. I have heard so called PRO singers that sounded terrible compared to his performance. Many times. And they got paid a lot of $$.

Would I use it on stage (If I performed on stage)? Maybe. depends on the venue I think, IMHO. Think about it...I recently stopped over to hear a friend play at a nursing home...he played well, and sang only so/so...if he used this, and sounded super....do you think the audience would care? Maybe, maybe not. I think most would love to hear the great vocals, and these venues typically just mean playing the song straight away.
In a club ect...probably not.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328745 - 07/13/11 07:10 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
A fun toy, maybe, maybe not. I though Craigs singing of the national anthem sounded pretty professional. I have heard so called PRO singers that sounded terrible compared to his performance. Many times. And they got paid a lot of $$.



Lee, please check your Private Messages.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328753 - 07/13/11 09:22 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: montunoman]
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
Here Eileen explains in detail how this is accomplished on the Tyros 4:

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=14967

Henni
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#328773 - 07/14/11 04:20 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
I pasted her post for convenience:

"Yes this is all on Tyros 4.You just need to set it up.You do have to record your song though and you need to record the right hand part onto the track you have picked for the vocoda.Once recorded you need to set the volume balance down to nil on this track.Asign the slider to VH Balance.Set the pitch correct to Hard.Select Vocoda MONO.Press funtion and song setting Set to Karao-Key.Set vocal balance to around R37.It is advisable when you record your melody track which needs to be played using single notes to slow this down to half speed and use the metronome if needed holding the notes for the full duration.You can then set it back to the right speed.You then follow with what you saw on the Demo pressing any note on the upper part of the keyboard in time with your vocal
Have Fun "
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#328781 - 07/14/11 07:44 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: kbrkr]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
If I needed this kind of tool to pull off a live gig, I'd stop trying to sing.


R.

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#328784 - 07/14/11 10:39 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: captain Russ]
Beakybird Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2227
Originally Posted By: captain Russ
If I needed this kind of tool to pull off a live gig, I'd stop trying to sing.


R.


All those steps are a bit onerous. However, I could see this being made into a program that reduces the steps. It might be several years, however, before this technology could be used on the fly.

I could see it being used if there was a song that you really wanted to do, but you just couldn't hit the note.

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#328792 - 07/14/11 12:59 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
R.
Would you use it if you could not sing well at all?
Like me. (Not live for a gig, but maybe for yourself & family/friends)??
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328797 - 07/14/11 01:49 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: leeboy
R.
Would you use it if you could not sing well at all?
Like me. (Not live for a gig, but maybe for yourself & family/friends)??


Leeboy, in my posts I have made that quite clear (and I think Russ may think the same as we have the same view) that for someone using the Tyros at home (the Yamaha MAIN market - home users) this would be a wonderful and fun device for those who cannot sing or who sing poorly. It would encourage more active participation in adding vocals to their playing.

I re-state that for someone professing to be a pro singer/player finding they HAD to use it, they should retire.

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#328798 - 07/14/11 01:54 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
So it seems that really, this technology is only a vocoder, as you need to actually PLAY/record the notes for it to pitch shift. It does not work purely on the actual audio...maybe not so revolutionary after all, but an improvement on existing technology...Although it IS Yamaha and that is their way, just improve on what is already available and then spin it out to be some new and revolutionary thing...and of course then charge an arm and a leg for it!!! (Just an observation on Yamaha methods, not a criticism)

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#328799 - 07/14/11 02:02 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Probably not, Lee.

R.

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#328801 - 07/14/11 02:13 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
He gang ...don't take it too serious. I think Craigs intention is to have a feature that is fun....maybe not for a guy on stage!
He did Kookie Kaoreoke for the same reason.

For someone like me and I think thousands of others...it is very cool and useable in a specific scenario.

Remember we do not know just how it works yet, and maybe it's only the beginning of what will be done on the VH2/
These days HW is a given, it's the software and implementation that counts...That's what I do for a living, custom software in industrial environments.


Spot on, Lee...it is meant mainly for the home user, much like Kookie Karaoke....however, there's nothing stopping the many professionals, who also use Tyros4, from taking advantage of it.

The word from Yamaha is that the VH-2 is a new vocal processor...not an enhanced version of the old one.

And, yes, apparently it is only the beginning of what can be done with it, and with guys like Craig, no telling to what levels it can be taken.

Remember, most of the features, that professionals use on today's arrangers, had their beginnings in the home market; auto-accompaniment, for instance.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328895 - 07/16/11 02:53 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Nigel]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
No news from Yamaha how we can do this,with same quality ?

Impuls confused1
_________________________
Genos2,Yamaha YC61, Ventilator2 . : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA

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#328901 - 07/16/11 06:05 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
I have heard nothing further from craig. So at this time I have no further details.....excapt that we still do not know if it is exactly the same as was posted by Eileen at PSRtutorial or is is a refinement from Craig.

One comment...and I am not up to speed as to the super Vocoder products out there...
I have not heard anything that sounds this good from any other demos...I did have a Kurzweil K2600X with vocoder capability...I sure did not find a way to do this on that baby..
So, if there is one...please share so we can compare..
AND this is not some external box...it is IN the T4. Id there some other ARRNGER that has this capability?? I don't think so...so from that regard it is a breakthrough technology.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328903 - 07/16/11 06:43 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Wow, all this fuss over something that has been around for over a decade. (It’s called Auto tune BTW)

There’s even an article on Wikipedia about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-Tune

Hopefully it will die a death, as when everything is put right for you, whats the point in learning to sing or play an instrument, you might as well just stick a CD on. JMO

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#328904 - 07/16/11 07:24 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Almost forgot, pitch correction was also available on the T2 as standard.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#328906 - 07/16/11 08:04 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: abacus]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944


Bill,

You have just spoiled it for me, I thought one day I would sing MY WAY just like Frank, never mind I can just think, I think leeboy will think twice in future about posting something that's been around 100 years.

Bill is there anything like this on the Wesri Wing or would that be an extra, still ain't seen a video of one being played yet, have you, if so can you post it.

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328910 - 07/16/11 09:56 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: abacus]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: abacus
Almost forgot, pitch correction was also available on the T2 as standard.

Bill


In fact, even BEFORE the T2. Remember this.



smile

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#328916 - 07/16/11 12:44 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: abacus]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: abacus
Almost forgot, pitch correction was also available on the T2 as standard.

Bill


It was available even earlier than Tyros2

Pitch Correction (with Gender Function) was also standard on Yamaha PSR-8000 (1997).

I think what Craig has done is to take the pitch correction to a further level.

The feature itself isn't really new.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328919 - 07/16/11 01:11 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: cgiles]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Originally Posted By: abacus
Almost forgot, pitch correction was also available on the T2 as standard.

Bill


In fact, even BEFORE the T2. Remember this.



smile

chas




Now that is not your ear Chas....it is too small... smile
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#328924 - 07/16/11 04:27 PM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Fran Carango]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
Yes indeed on all that models was a sort of pitch correction, However it didn't sound as good as in the T4 example.
If you cant hear that difference ,you must be deaf.
Let someone show the same quality on YT to proof,No chance .

Impuls
_________________________
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#328943 - 07/17/11 03:23 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Guys.... This technology has been on the market for many many years already and is already in the forum of Rack Units, Foot Pedals, PC Software and in Keyboards like the KORG Pa-Series. It has also been out long enough to evolve hugely way above what you see demostraterd in that video.

I have no idea what they plan on adding to the Tyros, any of the other devices you can pick up function in 3 different ways when it comes to this specific function.

1: You can specify the scale and key your singing in, and in real-time the software will pitch correct your voice. This is the most popular way to use the technology and professionals gigging and studio's all across the world use it this way. Highly recommended.

2: You can step sequence in notes and use a trigger to go through the notes so the software only allows the sequenced pitch that is triggered to sound. Which is what you are seeing in his video. This method is normally only used in Studio's for people who are utter crap at singing, or for those looking for a specific sort of effect.

3: You can play the notes in real-time and the software will pitch your voice to the notes your playing. This mode can work in conjunction with mode 1 above, so that if in the Studio the singer is a little too far off key for the real-time system to pick them up correctly, you can tweak the notes. Normally only done in post production with recorded tracks.

Racks and other devoices that have these functions also offer much much more. Mic Modelling, Harmony, FX's, Voice Modelling and so on.....

Regards
James

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#328944 - 07/17/11 03:39 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Here's an example of the Pitch Correction function on the Pa3X.

I've linked to a specific part on the Video so you get to hear the Pitch Correction set HIGH for the Black Eye Peas songs, and then when the Country song comes in after, you get to hear the setting as you would have it at a gig. He uses harmony also.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybQ3K3hzO8E&feature=youtu.be#t=4m41s

That's how it should work guys, not the gimmick way demonstrated by Yamaha.

Regards
James.

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#328945 - 07/17/11 03:57 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Anthony Johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
Many seem to be forgetting that this software clearly is not just simple pitch correction.

That may have been around for years but, this software also turns a flat and uninteresting voice into one with some depth, vibrato and power and gives the impression of a singer with a really good voice.

Take the average bad singer and just use pitch correction and you will still hear a bad singer only in the correct pitch.

If this software can be incorporated into a Tyros4, it will be the first software with all these capabilities to be found in a usable form and in a mass produced keyboard.
Tony

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#328946 - 07/17/11 04:01 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Anthony Johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
The Pa3X software may be similar and do a similar job but this has only been demonstrated by someone who IS a bone fida singer.
A demo by a non singer would tell us more.
Tony

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#328947 - 07/17/11 04:11 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Hi Tony.
I don't mean to be rude, but you really are not up to speed on all this. I've had singers in my Studio who should have been shot and put out of their misery, yet they leave the Studio sounding amazing.

For years I've been using pitch correction, adding Vibrato, Breath, Growl, Rasp and many other aspects of Voice Modelling Technology to singers voices. I even have Gender Change technology by where a guy can sing and do female harmony to his own songs.

The only thing this video demonstrates is just how little people are aware of what has been on the market for the last 10 years.

I'm really shocked by that...!!!!

Regards
James.

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#328948 - 07/17/11 04:32 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Irishacts]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
Also the PA3 sounds not as natural like the T4.
There is nothing to find with the same result as the T4 on you-tube.
I am also curios why Mr Knudsen not respond on all the questions about this movie ,Maybe its Fake ?

Impuls
_________________________
Genos2,Yamaha YC61, Ventilator2 . : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA

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#328950 - 07/17/11 04:48 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Impuls]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: Impuls
Also the PA3 sounds not as natural like the T4.
There is nothing to find with the same result as the T4 on you-tube.
I am also curios why Mr Knudsen not respond on all the questions about this movie ,Maybe its Fake ?

Impuls


Impuls,

There are just not the numbers of Korgs sold to Yamaha, in fact not that many other KBs to Yamaha,
Yamaha have the money to throw at design and software, the other just don't. Thats why we don't see any good demos, its a fact of life.

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328951 - 07/17/11 04:57 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
There is nothing to find with the same result as the T4 on you-tube.


Would you be happy to sing into a microphone and hear a completely different voice coming back that sounds nothing at all like your voice ?

No ?

Well that's exactly why you won't find a demo of anyone online using the technology in the manner this guys is demonstrating it. NO serious person would want to change their voice into something that sounds nothing remotely close to their voice.

I have the same problem in the Studio. I am only allowed to go so far before a singer will turn around and say that's not their voice. Weather it sounds amazing or not makes no difference. If it sounds nothing like them, you cannot use it.

The technology has been around a long time. This guy is just demonstrating the gimmick side of it.

I bet there's not a single person on this forum who would dare use it outside of the home.

Regards
James.

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#328952 - 07/17/11 04:57 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Irishacts]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: Irishacts
Hi Tony.
I don't mean to be rude, but you really are not up to speed on all this. I've had singers in my Studio who should have been shot and put out of their misery, yet they leave the Studio sounding amazing.

For years I've been using pitch correction, adding Vibrato, Breath, Growl, Rasp and many other aspects of Voice Modelling Technology to singers voices. I even have Gender Change technology by where a guy can sing and do female harmony to his own songs.

The only thing this video demonstrates is just how little people are aware of what has been on the market for the last 10 years.

I'm really shocked by that...!!!!



Regards
James.



James Hi,
Nice to see you back posting.
As you can see I have gone down the T4 route, still got your favourite pet the Audya , I nearly bought a MS hells I am glad I didn't, they are completely off radar. James can you do a short video before and after like the T4, it would put an end to all this and perhaps this post once and for all, and if you want a dummy who can’t sing, I will come across , perhaps DANNY BOY I could really ruin it for you without correction turned on and perhaps with it turned on.
Anyway have we missed anything of the MS R&D or not, still not seen any video, you know most stuff is sold on the web and the good Yamaha demos sell KB, this cannot be denied.

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328953 - 07/17/11 05:03 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Yamaha have the money to throw at design and software, the other just don't.


Really ?
So what's Yamaha's answer to the KORG M3, OASYS and KRONOS ?
Another Motif rehash...again.. ?

Everyone happy with the difference between a Tyros 3 and 4 ?

James.

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#328955 - 07/17/11 05:10 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Irishacts]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944


James,

Can you rig a demo with the pitch correction, it would be interesting I think for everyone, would it take much doing.

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328956 - 07/17/11 05:16 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Hi Tony.

Quote:
As you can see I have gone down the T4 route, still got your favourite pet the Audya


Good for you. I was only playing a T4 last week for a few hours. It is a great sounding keyboard. Easy to operate and instant gratification.

Quote:
I nearly bought a MS hells I am glad I didn't, they are completely off radar


Not sure it would have been the right choice for you if something like a Tyros 4 appeals to you. They are nothing alike. The Meidastation is certainly not off the radar through. Activity is on other forums that's all.

The new Rack is on the way, beta version of 5.1 are online... there's lots of good work being done.

Quote:
James can you do a short video before and after like the T4, it would put an end to all this and perhaps this post once and for all, and if you want a dummy who can’t sing, I will come across , perhaps DANNY BOY I could really ruin it for you without correction turned on and perhaps with it turned on.


To be honest I would only see it as a waste of my time. The guy in the video is fooling you all into thinking that this is dead simple when it's not. He has sequenced in every single note he is going to sing into the keyboard, and the notes he is playing on the keyboard mean nothing. They only advance the sequence to the next note.

So, not only is he not playing the song, none of the notes he’s playing have anything to do with the song either other than to advance the sequence. And you guys are impressed with that ?

Dropping 4 grand on a keyboard so you don't have to play it and don't have to hear a voice that sounds anything like your own ? If you want to do that, just buy a CD of someone else and pretend it's you.

Quote:
you know most stuff is sold on the web and the good Yamaha demos sell KB, this cannot be denied.


True... but it is also shocking just how little people know about what they are buying. Selling a Yamaha to a Yamaha user is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Regards
James

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#328957 - 07/17/11 05:23 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Irishacts]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944

James,

Still a lot of people changing to T4 who do not have Yamaha.


James do you still have any predictions on Audya

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328958 - 07/17/11 06:02 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes



Can you rig a demo with the pitch correction, it would be interesting I think for everyone, would it take much doing.

Tony


I don't think we'll see a demo the equal of the one Craig has done...just excuses...it can only be done on the Tyros4.

I suspect Craig's software will be picked up by Yamaha if enough interest is shown, and there appears to be a great deal, judging by the number of views on this thread.


Tyros4 is is selling so well, it needs nothing to boost it's popularity amongst the hobbyists and the pros,(witness the huge number of YouTube videos-more than any other TOTL arranger introduced this year) but, I have a feeling Craig's software will help add a bunch more.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328959 - 07/17/11 06:05 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Anthony Johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
Hi James,I fully understand your argument and you are probably correct ( after all, I know next to nothing about any of this technology ) BUT, how much equipment do you have to do these same tricks and what did it cost?

It may well be that we're being fooled by the YouTube video - we'll have to see as more becomes known. I myself have doubts but have an open mind at this stage.

The main thing is, that if it does work, it will be a great move forward for the average home player and maybe someone who entertains the oldies and it won't entail carrying a cartload of extremely expensive equipment to do it.
Tony

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#328960 - 07/17/11 06:24 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Tony Hughes]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Originally Posted By: Impuls
Also the PA3 sounds not as natural like the T4.
There is nothing to find with the same result as the T4 on you-tube.
I am also curios why Mr Knudsen not respond on all the questions about this movie ,Maybe its Fake ?

Impuls


Impuls,

There are just not the numbers of Korgs sold to Yamaha, in fact not that many other KBs to Yamaha,
Yamaha have the money to throw at design and software, the other just don't. Thats why we don't see any good demos, its a fact of life.

Tony


The results on the Tyros4, even to the uneducated ear, indicate that it is Craig's natural voice coming through the speakers, and, although the Pa3X vocal processor can do pitch correct, it can't do it to the degree that Craig has done with the T4's VH-2.

Maybe it can, if Craig was to apply a version of his software to the Helicon unit, but, methinks this will probably be exclusive to Yamaha, if the interest remains high.

Tony, all one has to do is watch YouTube and the vast number of Tyros4 videos, done by amateur and pro alike...it appears to be a runaway success both for the home market and the pro OMB, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it is Yamaha's best selling Tyros model. The PA3X's lack of "Wow!" to users and potential buyers is quite likely due to the allotment of Korg's limited R&D money...it seems that most of it went on the new Kronos (very nice instrument, by the way) and little was left for the PA3X other than a new coat of black paint and a few added features, like the Chord Sequencer (which, apparently, isn't as much of a doddle to use as expected).

In regards to Impulse's question...no, the video is genuine and not fake.

Craig has done other work for Yamaha of equal cleverness.

Ian

PS...I see Vangelis is interested in an Audya.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328961 - 07/17/11 06:27 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Still a lot of people changing to T4 who do not have Yamaha.


Maybe, there's no facts to prove either way. From running KORG Forums I could easily say the opposite but that would equally be as inaccurate as any statement on this subject.

We simply don't know.

Regards
James

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#328963 - 07/17/11 06:42 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: Anthony Johnson]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Anthony Johnson


The main thing is, that if it does work, it will be a great move forward for the average home player and maybe someone who entertains the oldies and it won't entail carrying a cartload of extremely expensive equipment to do it.
Tony


Anthony, there will be a few from Yamaha's competitor's with their sour grapes responses, but, if the number of hits this thread has had, in only several days (almost 2500 at my last count), is any indication, it seems to be something in which people are very interested.

And, like you say, it won't involve carrying a cartload of extremely expensive equipment...just your trusty Tyros4.

Ian

_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328964 - 07/17/11 06:45 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Tony,
Wrong, Korg sells many more arrangers than Yamaha IF you consider world wide sales. Turkey buys those things like we buy flat screen TV's.

But any how, I still have not seen a demo/prformance that is as good as the one I posted on an 'arranger' with no PRO add on modules, studio engineers etc involved. Using a non singer.

James, the demo you posted is not valid in this scenario..THAT GUY CAN SING.

I am aware of a lot of the things used in the studios...and they are cool...but, can you find us a demo/performance of someone that cannot sing, on the PA3X that is this good??
I hope so, as I would love to hear it. (No external equipment allowed). And, It has to show what the Yamaha video did , the singer is way off pitch (I'm not even that bad!) and the sound must be natural and not digital sounding.

Many of us out here, that are not good singers would like to be able to sing on key for our own enjoyment, family ect. we are not talking PRO's here.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328965 - 07/17/11 06:54 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
James, for what this feature is designed for....having the MIDI of the song you are going to play is FINE...it is kind of a kaoroke.
But it would work fine at home or elsewhere for someone to sing with.
This is not a live PRO gigging musicians tool. Well, it could be used in a special situation...how many here can sing songs from Phantom of the Opera??? ON KEY??? Not many...so you see it may have some applicibility for anyone.

One other question...since I am out of sync with the Korg PA3X..did they fix the TONS of bad sounds coming forward on the PA3 that were on the PA2?? That's one BIG reason I sold mine???
I sent 3 pages of bugs in the sounds to Korg, never heard a word back.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328966 - 07/17/11 06:55 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Ian,
I'm a litle confused now...according to the post respose Eileen (psrtutorial) said this is already a done deal, people already know how to do it?? So why do we need anything else from Yamaha or Craig??
Thanks,
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328967 - 07/17/11 07:16 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Ian,
I'm a litle confused now...according to the post respose Eileen (psrtutorial) said this is already a done deal, people already know how to do it?? So why do we need anything else from Yamaha or Craig??
Thanks,


I'm only aware of Eileen's post...I have not tried out what settings she indicated.

I have a feeling Craig's software adds more, but time will tell.

BTW, Lee, do you actually feel that Korg has sold more PA3X's than Yamaha has sold Tyros4?

Remember, the PA3X was introduced a bit later....according to a friend of mine on Korg forums, the instrument is only now getting into people's hands, and is working through a few initial bugs.

Another thing I don't understand...why are we seeing so few YouTube videos from PA3X owners...maybe it's because of what I suggested above?

One would imagine that, with such a fine TOTL instrument, there would be many videos showcasing it's sound and new features...T4 owners don't seem to have any problems posting lots of performances...one player, Joost, is doing a weekly and totally improvised showcase with a Tyros4, using nothing but on-board styles and factory One Touch Settings...in other words, and out-of-the-box instrument. His performance is well worth a listen.

It's very strange we do not see similar performances by Korg PA3X users, if there are as many as you say.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328968 - 07/17/11 07:19 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Hi James,I fully understand your argument and you are probably correct ( after all, I know next to nothing about any of this technology ) BUT, how much equipment do you have to do these same tricks and what did it cost?


Well you don't need to drop 3 Grand on one like me, you can get the Voice Works Plus rack for in around 500 USD and that comes with full on Voice Modelling, Harmony and more...

Here's some practical demo's of actual real world use.

Voice Modelling Demo + Pitch Tracking of what he plays on the keys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgJS6nLKKNY

Realistic Harmony.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uspU-ev_vWQ

Quote:
It may well be that we're being fooled by the YouTube video - we'll have to see as more becomes known. I myself have doubts but have an open mind at this stage.


Well it does what it does, so.... there's no trick there. Just beware of the fact that you do have to sequence in every note your going to sing and then advance the sequence during the performance. Also don't forget, it will not sound like your voice at all.

I'm all for this technology, but not in the fashion Yamaha are promoting in this video. They are taking serious technology and making it into a gimmick.

I'd much rather see someone drop 500 bucks on a Voice Works Plus and have their natural voice polished and improved without the need to sequence anything. You just play your keyboard and sing. To me that's far more rewarding.

Quote:
The main thing is, that if it does work, it will be a great move forward for the average home player and maybe someone who entertains the oldies and it won't entail carrying a cartload of extremely expensive equipment to do it.


I see two things there.

1: This is only an opportunity for Yamaha to sell something that you will get a laugh out of at home. Nobody will use it live, and you can be sure many will lack the ability to sequence the notes. For that, Yamaha will no doubt be on hand to sell you midi files at a cost.

2: It all so sad when there are real products out there you could be using live.

Regards
James

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#328969 - 07/17/11 07:20 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKhmFSV-XB0

Voice straightened out by Tyros 4, some smoke and a few mirrors, watch the lip sync, you can't see the joins can you.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328970 - 07/17/11 07:28 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy
James, for what this feature is designed for....having the MIDI of the song you are going to play is FINE...it is kind of a kaoroke.
But it would work fine at home or elsewhere for someone to sing with.
This is not a live PRO gigging musicians tool. Well, it could be used in a special situation...how many here can sing songs from Phantom of the Opera??? ON KEY??? Not many...so you see it may have some applicibility for anyone.

One other question...since I am out of sync with the Korg PA3X..did they fix the TONS of bad sounds coming forward on the PA3 that were on the PA2?? That's one BIG reason I sold mine???
I sent 3 pages of bugs in the sounds to Korg, never heard a word back.


I agree, Lee, this is probably not intended as a pro gigging tool, however, I'm sure some pros will find some very creative uses for it.

It is intended to be FUN mostly, and, quite frankly, it is going to be a real hoot to demo, if it comes to fruition, which, I think it will.

It will work, not only on commercial-type SMF (many available for free on the Internet), but others as well, including those you make yourself on the instrument.

We all like to have FUN and get the most out of our instruments, I know I do.

Ian


PS...were there that many bad sounds in the PA2X? Hopefully the matter has been looked after by Korg in the PA3X.

PSS...2588 views of this thread at my last count...appears to be a lot of interest.

_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#328974 - 07/17/11 08:00 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
James,
Any standard MIDI will work, so what effort is there in that??
All you do is tell it which MIDI channel to use.

If voice live can do EXACTLY this,,, I want to see it.
At the last Sweetwater gearfest I ask the guys from TC and they said, no we can not have you play notes and have the pitch correction follow...


Edited by leeboy (07/17/11 08:01 AM)
_________________________
Lee S.

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#328975 - 07/17/11 08:21 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
James,
Any standard MIDI will work, so what effort is there in that??


That's not true. If your going to sing far out of tune like this guy is doing, then you MUST sequence in the notes your supposed to be singing into the song.

Which is exactly what he did. Look at what notes he's playing on the keyboard too. He is only using the keys to step through the sequence. He is not singing what he's playing.

Quote:
All you do is tell it which MIDI channel to use.


Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. How on earth do you expect the software to magically know what the melody of any song is ?

He’s not using Chord Recognition.

Automatic “Auto Tune” or Chord Recognition corrections only works off Pitch, key and Scales specified before you sing the song and it can only correct notes that are out by a few cents. It is impossible to correct notes that are entirely wrong without actually sequencing what your supposed to be singing.

This is a simply and obvious fact...!!!!

Quote:
If voice live can do EXACTLY this,,, I want to see it.


And if I actually went to the bother of proving it to you, what would that achieve ?

I already know it's possible as does anyone using Pitch Correction Rack units or software.

Regards
James.

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#328979 - 07/17/11 09:05 AM Re: You will not believe this!!!!! [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy

Any standard MIDI will work, so what effort is there in that??
All you do is tell it which MIDI channel to use.

If voice live can do EXACTLY this,,, I want to see it.
At the last Sweetwater gearfest I ask the guys from TC and they said, no we can not have you play notes and have the pitch correction follow...


You're right, Lee, pretty well any standard midi file will work, as long as it has the melody notes. Of course it's easy to make your own, too.

You then set the midi channel so the VH-2 can track the melody.

Pretty simple, but, very effective indeed.

As far as I can tell, playing the notes in the right hand has nothing to do with the actual pitch being sung, but is used to advance the midi file...there is a feature in the Clavinova where you play along with a midi file, and the lights above the keys show you which note to play next...it has a mode where it will wait for you to play the correct note, and thus advance further in the song.

The Tyros4 has the same feature, but does not have the lights.

I believe Craig is using that "wait" mode to advance the SMF in the video.

It appears the majority of those negatively criticizing this great feature are the ones who don't have, or can't have, it on their arranger vocal harmonizer.

I think it will be a great addition.

Ian

PS...your thread has over 2600 views and climbing fast...awesome!
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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