Dear Forum members and others,

It's been quit a while now that we've been anticipating the new revolutionary keyboard AUDYA from Ketron and for those interested in this product; we'd like to extend a special "Thank you" for your patience and endurance during this long research and development process.

A lot of design and development has been put into AUDYA to make it truly a one-of-it's-kind Arranger Keyboard for it's time and we believe we've been able to finally achieve this goal.

This product (full production model functioning at 100% of the current features) should officially be released in the United States around March 15th, 2009, where users will be able to get a up-close-and-personal view and experience of this great Arranger 'Work-horse'. Being built on an Open Architecture platform, of course we will add new functions and features as requested by our customers through OS updates.

What are some of the features we believe will put AUDYA in a 'class' of its own? What makes the KETRON AUDYA unique to existing Arrangers?

Just to list a few features (you should find out the rest in person once it's released ...)...

1. Best Natural Sounds:- Living up to its reputation, Ketron built the AUDYA around its best natural & original sounds. A lot of time and development was taken to create lengthy, accurate samples created from the 'ground up'. For most instruments, the 'character' of the instrument was also captured in real time giving the user the possibility to play the instrument the way the original instrument was meant to be played ...e.g. play the MUTED or SWING TRUMPET and listen to how the 'player' blows into the instrument ... and also hold the key down long enough and you hear the player 'run out of breath' while the sound 'decays' to an end... after all a trumpet player cannot hold his breath endlessly now, can they? Such a feature eliminates the use of 'loops' in many of our sounds so the 'artificial' effect of simply sampling is for the most part eliminated.
We at Ketron have always prided ourselves in creating the Best Natural sounds and as such we've never found the need to advertize a special category of Sounds - they should all sound good.
To add to the existing selection of ROM sounds in AUDYA's memory, we have included a bonus section in the Hard Drive in the folder called "SUPERSOLO". These are voices which (in many instances) work on both samples and modulation. Loading a 10,120 KB voice takes no more than 5 seconds with our new CPU (if no other action is being carried out). Loading can also be done while the keyboard is being played (multi-tasking), however loading times will increase. These voices bring out the best of AUDYA with rich characteristics and great authenticity ... you've not heard the best of AUDYA until you hear the SUPERSOLO voices.

2. 'LIVE' ARRANGER:- This is not the first time KETRON has incorporated AUDIO into their arrangers. In the mid 90's, Ketron used AUDIO grooves with their MS-series keyboards. This was then carried into the X, SD and XD series with better, longer audio grooves to really give that LIVE DRUM feel. We've decided to go up a level where no Arranger Workstation has gone by now, by incorporating Audio Drums, Audio Bass and an Audio chord part with the Arranger too. The capability to control such Audio (bass and chord parts) in real time has of course posed it's problems, but we believe we have found a compromise such that the AUDIO parts complement (and not replace) the midi Arranger parts. So, a style (depending on which style is selected) will have Audio drums (recorded by real, live, professional musicians), and/or Audio bass and/or one audio chord (chord 5 - which can be toggled between audio and midi). For the chords that are not recognized by the chord 5 track, complex algorithms either 'stretch' the chord or midi parts are played to 'represent' that chord - however, due to the rich nature of the new sound library, you will hardly notice the difference ... it's like driving a Toyota Prius Hybrid - hard to tell when the gas engine switches off and the electric engine switches on. This characteristic enables AUDYA to recognize and play ALL chord types when the Arranger is played in full. Of course if you 'solo' chord 5, there will be scenarios where this chord will not be heard ~ if you plan to play an entire performance with ONLY chord 5 active, we'd suggest you select another style that will have the midi equivalent to this one.

3. INTERACTIVE GUITAR:- This new feature from Ketron allows you to determine 'when' you want to hear live guitar strum/notes. Depending on the setting, you can play a chord and the Arranger will automatically insert a guitar strum/chord/part based on how hard you play. This allows one to 'interact' with the machine and again eliminate redundancy and boredom.

4. INTELLIGENT ARRANGER:- Now here is where things begin to 'pick up' even more. With the way Arrangers are 'programmed' one of the characteristics it's been hard to navigate away from has been ... REDUNDANCY. Regardless of the quality of styles and sounds, the Arranger (because it's playing a loop - 4, 8,16 or even 32 measures long in some cases) at some point becomes 'boring' as you already begin to 'know what is coming'. Using AI (Artificial Intelligence) in AUDYA, we've been able to practically eliminate this effect. When you play a style on AUDYA, for the first couple of measures, AUDYA 'learns' what you are playing. When redundant chord progressions are played, AUDUA will start playing random 'bass', 'drum' and in some cases 'chord' parts. These parts are 'thrown into your performance' to enhance what you are playing. In order not to 'compete' with what you are playing, AUDYA automatically 'mutes' these parts once you start to play (e.g. a solo part) so as to avoid 'noise' (which tends to occur when too many parts/tracks are playing at the same time). This feature alone is quite innovative in the fact that AUDYA tends to remain 'new' to you the end user, always inspiring you to play. The sad thing about this feature is it might (just might) eliminate the need for another keyboard after this!
AUDYA also responds to velocity, After-touch, run up/down scales ... etc to trigger different notes and parts when playing a style.

5. POWERFUL REMIX FEATURES:- With the integration of AUDIO into Styles and MIDIFILES, we decided to give you the end user the capability to create your own Enhanced Midi-audio, Wave or MP3 files instantly from your existing MIDI library. Simply by selecting a Midi file and playing, you can use the REMIX feature to remove the 'midi drums' of existing Midi files and replace them using the AUDIO drums from AUDYA. he midi files DRUM, BASS, ORCHESTRAL and LEAD parts can be individually controlled with the dedicated sliders. With this feature, you can use the Arranger and Fill ins to change the drum tracks live as you play and sing to your midi files. What's best? Simply press RECORD to record this entire performance as a WAVE file that will automatically be named after the Midi file (with a *.wav) extension(if you plugged in a microphone into AUDYA, your vocal tracks will also be recorded). To take this feature even further, you can also activate the AUDIO chord part (guitars) and while playing the midi file, play the chords on the left and the AUDIO guitars will follow you - and yes, you can once more record these at the same time - basically reading and writing to the built in Hard Drive at once!! With the capability to record your own Wave and MP3 files, AUDYAs' recording possibilities are open and flexible.

6. KEY TUNES:- Did we mention the fact that AUDYA also comes with a POWERFUL multi player? You can play (simultaneously) 2 wave, 2 mp3 or 2 midi files and the keyboard at the same time. Not that you'll be doing this very often, but you know the capability is there ... especially for those who depend on playing existing files with effects ...etc. Thanks to this new player, we've created KEYTUNES. This feature allows you to assign Wave, MP3 or midi files to keys on the keyboard. You may assign an audio/midi file either to a key or a range of keys. Once these keys are pressed, you have the option to play the loop only when the key is depressed (Hold=ON) or play and keep playing the file until the next key is pressed. With this function, the possibilities are endless for a gigging musician on stage having all their songs at their finger-tips ... literally!

7. POWERFUL MULTIPLAYER:- AUDYA can play (as mentioned above) multiple Wave, MP3 and Midi files at once. Each file can be controlled by dedicated independent sliders or automatically with the CROSSFADE feature, the user can fade out of one file into the next (with adjustable CROSSFADE curves). With over 200 EFFECTS on board, you can add and enhance your music or take a break and ... let AUDYA entertain with the PLAYLIST feature or ... endless possibilities.

8. VOICETRON - KETRON's Vocalizer:- We've decided to 'build our own' vocalizer and implore our notion of Best Natural Sounds to the vocaliser as well. So our harmonies stand out and sound ... 'REAL'. With harmony modes like AUTOTUNE, we've shaped up the human voice and why not enhance the world's best instrument - your voice? AUDYA offers 2 mic inputs with independent GAIN control. This allows 2 people to be able to sing into AUDYA at the same time and apply effects to both voices and ... yes record both voices as well as a Wave or Mp3 file. Harmonies can be created and controlled using your LEFT, RIGHT or both hands or via MIDI from an external source like a Sequencer for an example. You can even play 'single notes' and manually create your own harmonies too.

9. (6)INDEPENDENT OUTPUTS:- For the live musician who's sound man needs to have control of each instrument and sound coming out of the keyboard OR for the studio artist who wants to record 12 audio tracks at once (yes, 12 when panned) using software such as PROTOOLS, this is a must. The outputs allow the user to assign different instruments to different outputs and as such, one has individual control over all tracks/channel. For an example, you can assign the Kick drum out of OUT1(L) and high hat out of OUT1(R), then Congas out of OUT2(L) and Timbales out of OUT2(R) ...etc. Now you can (outside the keyboard) apply compression to the KICK DRUM alone, maybe add some other effects to the other tracks ... etc. You can also assign the MICS and audio (Wave and MP3) to different outputs. We've also incoorporated S/PDIF in and out and LINE IN for external sound sources.

10. VOICE LAYERING & CONTROL:- You can layer up to 3 voices on the right or entire keyboard and play them at once or play them across the keyboard with up to 3 different SPLIT points or using velocity control, program each voice to be heard only when the key(s) are played at a particular velocity range or both. Each of these voices can be assigned different EFFECTS, volumes, and pitch, sustain (y/n), expression ...etc.

11. CUSTOMIZATION:- You can pretty much customize AUDYA to your needs. You can customize start up features (what should be active or not when the unit is turned on), USER buttons 1-5 below the screen and one slider (PFL). We understand not everyone is the same and so we wanted to allow AUDYA meet your needs.

12. RIFF:- Play a couple of chords; now go into the RIFF (Arranger D where applicable). AUDYA takes over your Arrangement and plays chord progressions automatically based on the chord you played and style of music. This allows you to 'jam' on either the right or entire keyboard (Pianist mode). Again, because of your style of play, the RIFF differs.

13. AUDIO TEMPO & KEY CHANGE. Play a wave file, now hit the transpose button (up or down) to change it's key OR use the TEMPO button to change it's tempo/speed while maintaining the pitch. To add to this, you can also still use the VOICE MUTE feature and delete the lead voice. Now, you can sing to your favorite Audio tunes ... great for Karaoke Players. You can also synchronize this with Midi or styles and yes - re-record onto the Hard Drive as a new Audio file (with your flavor now).

14. TEXT ASSOCIATION:- Just as with our previos products, you can always associate a text file with either a Midi file, Wave or MP3. When you play the song the first time, you'll 'teach' AUDYA where and when to change the pages of the text in real-time. Once this task is accomplished, the next time you play that same song, AUDYA will automatically load it's corresponding text (if the text file has the same name as the audio or midi file) and scroll through automatically. This information (along with a mirror image of the screen too) can be displayed on an external monitor or TV screen using the built in RGB Video connection located on the back.

15. USB:- Two USB 1.1 jacks are comfortably located at the front. AUDYA can use sources like external Hard Drives, USB thumb sticks, USB FD ... etc to expand on data storage and communicate with the "outside world". With the compression rate used by AUDYA and the efficient design of it's new data bus, the actual data transfer speed is slightly over 15% faster than the standard USB 1.1 configuration. A USB Host jack comfortably located at the rear allows you to connect AUDYA to a PC/MAC for further direct access to it's internal Hard Drive or Midi applications, or for use with software soon to be provided for this instrument.

There are many other features not described above simply because words alone cannot tell the whole story. Even videos (in their own way) are limited. You'll have to try one and find out if it's for you FIRST as Different Arranger manufacturers hold and target different markets. No Arranger Workstation or keyboard has it all, but we believe with AUDYA, we have taken a great step forward.

Of course we will continue listening to our customers for future updates on our products. Again we like to thank you for your patience as we try to release a revolutionary product we believe those who purchase will like and enjoy for years to come.

The Ketron team.

[This message has been edited by Ketron_AJ (edited 02-10-2009).]

Aj you have Leezone foaming at the mouth!!!!

A few questions...

Individual outs on the drums... This is for the MIDI drums and not for the audio loops, isn't it? I can't see a way to route these separately when a hi-hat and kick occur simultaneously (as they do most of the time).

Is there any articulation control (SA type ability) on these 'Best Natural Sounds'? Are they sampled with a different sample for each note? If there are no loops, one wouldn't want them dropping out at different times due to a sped up or slowed down sample, would one?

Any chance of a Ketron demo that soloed the loop AND MIDI guitar parts at the same time? One audio track would defuse (maybe!) much of the speculation about this feature. Sure, bury this in a busy mix, you might not hear it. But many songs go great with JUST an acoustic guitar part, even if not for the entire song. How well this workaround works is of primary importance to me, and maybe many more. Let's just HEAR IT, please...

And sorry, but please... one final definitive statement about whether the guitar loops WILL have more than maj/min and the occasional 7th as basic chord types actually recorded (not added to, replaced or anything else) will help squash the speculation and rampant misinformation spread by many Ketron 'defenders' that have MUCH less knowledge than you...

The Intelligent Arranger feature... I'm still not quite sure I 'get' this. Do you REALLY mean the FIRST couple of measures it learns what you are doing? Because I fail to see how ANY redundancy occurs THAT early in a song... How big is this 'learn' window? It sounds a great feature, if extended beyond what you've said.

Key tunes... This sounds kind of like you can do an RPS type thing with loops. Do they stay in sync with each other? Can you cue one up so it starts at the end of the first? This sounds promising.

I'm sorry for all the questions, but you have to understand that a product with as little dealership in the US as Ketron has is unlikely to be seen or played by the majority of musicians here. If we HAVE to see it to believe it, sadly, few of us are going to be able to believe it You'd be amazed at how much we CAN tell from a decently produced video! Please, PLEASE don't try that Wersi 'You've GOT to sit at one before you can judge anything at all' nonsense on us. That dog, as they say over here, don't hunt

Your answers to our questions, and a LOT of video up at the site is going to make believers out of us, I hope. I haven't given up on this thing, and only ever wanted straightforward answers to straightforward questions. The hype and pre-release promo left a LOT of unanswered questions. If THIS post had come out six months ago, little of what has been said would have ever got posted, IMO.

I look forward to the answers... (really )

not quite....

not quite the news i was hoping to hear

i consider the lack of audio parts for MANY ESSENTIAL chords more of an "incompleteness" rather than what AJ/Ketron says: "AUDIO parts complement (and not replace) the midi Arranger parts".

what does this say?

this says that we are done with recording and developing this breakthrought Audio loop technology,
if it's not there, well you get the midi equivalent, big deal, it all sounds the same right? ;-)
midi guitar sounds exactly the same as the Audio, you can't tell the difference, can you?

and it seems (sadly) that Ketron will NEVER add ALL Audio guitar chords, and will never finish what they started... :-(

sorry, but those are my feelings and thoughts...

just wondering how the keyboard went from 50% as per Nedim, about a week or two ago, to now: "This product (full production model functioning at 100% of the current features)" to be released in a Month in the USA

what has changed from this demo-model within last weeks till now?

will we have full-functioning software to go with AUDYA since its Open Architecture?, full manual? if not it's not 100% as stated.

Sometimes we try to put a handle on an egg...
we dont have to stretch words that much...
If the one i played was 50% finished does that
mean that the ones in Italy are also 50% finished?
What if they were 97% finished at the time?
And what method and measure did i use to tell
exactly 50% finished? What if i was 30% off?

Nedim not ONLY do i wish you were 30% off

BUT, i also wish the AUDYA was 30% off ;-)

AJ, question...

since AUDYA is Open Arch,
will Ketron add to audio chords grooves at a later time? Perhaps i should have asked before assuming :-)

also can WE record/inport our own grooves, or can we say REPLACE all guitar audio loops in a particu;ar style with a TOTALLY different instrument?

say i wanna replace the audio guitar groove in the tango style to use an accordion audio groove instead?

lee, I would think that if Ketron can't get more than those chords to stream in realtime, a user won't be able to get MORE...

But yes, I would imagine that how easy it is for a user to import audio loops, if only for the drum section, will be of great interest. At least for those of us that can't afford to buy every new model that comes out (or just plain don't want to!), being able to easily import sampled loop grooves and fills will make a difference to how long this keeps us satisfied (I can only play the same style for so long ).

For something like an accordion loop, how do you get past the basic chord problem? That sound needs complex chords AT LEAST as much as a guitar does, and I can't imagine that making the MIDI workarounds that the guitar section has had put in is easy in the least...

Answers to some of the questions asked above.

Individual out on drums:- This is for midi and Groove drums. For styles that have Audio drums, the entire drum track can can be assigned to an output. Bass, Audio Guitar, Chord parts ... etc can also be individually assigned.

Articulation control:- Controlled by velocity, time to which the next note is hit after current note (initial or mute attack, e.g on sax) and aftertouch.

For just an accoustic guitar part (or equivalent) we have the UNPLUGGED styles which can be used.

Yes, the Audio Guitar, Bass (or other instruments) parts does/will respond to more than just Major, Minor and 7thh chords.

Intelligent Arranger:- The intelligent part picks up usually between 16-32 measures of play (depending on the style). For styles witin 'longer messures' the 'pick up' is longer i.e more measures have to be played before it kicks in. As an example, 'No Woman no Cry' - Reggae style. If you play the chorus back-to-back about twice (the same way), you'll hear the difference on the 3rd time around, however if you play and also increase your velocity of play (get excited) during the 2nd time, you'll hear subtle differences too. Hope this examples explains this feature better?

Keytunes:- You can synchronize the audio (before creating the keytune list) and yes you can cue to start one right after the other, however you will have to use an audio editor (e.g Recycle) to 'edit' the wave/mp3 files so that there is no 'space' at the begining or end of each file ... just a little homework for a better, smoother performance.

We are working on some demos that should be up and running soon.

Also, those who attend the forthcoming workshops should feel free to try out the keyboard. No one was turned down from trying the AUDYA at the Shrevport Jam ~ there was just too little time to show all it's features and remember ... many people there simply wanted to 'jam' after the demonstration, not play the AUDYA. There just wasn't enough time, but the forthcoming Ketron workshops are just that - workshops...

Lack of audio parts:- We never advertized or mentioned anything along the lines of "... and now, our styles will be replaced entirely with complete Audio". We hope there wasn't a mis-understanding about this and hopefully this clears it up. Styles are made up of about 8 elements (Drum 1, Drum 2, Bass, Chd1-5). For many styles, Drum 1, Bass and Chd5 are replaced with AUDIO equivalent parts while Drum 2 are grooves. The other parts (Chords 1-4)are still midi based. The AUDIO parts can also be turned 'off' and replaced with Midi.

We forgot to mention ... Arpeggios and Licks - can be substituted for Chord 4!! Arps have usually been associated only with Synth Workstations ~ but now, Arranger Workstations can use them too. You can change the voicing of the Arp. once the style is being played (say from Strings to Guitar or synth or ...). When the style is off, you can change/select a different Arp. that best suits you. When done, you can now save this style with your new setting (changes may be applied to individual Arranger parts or the entire style).

Full functioning software (for editing/creating DJ loops, styles, customization ...etc) will be made available and downloadable on our website at a later date. The complete manual is also being revised and will soon be up on our website for download.

Import/Recording Grooves:- Yes, you'll be able to use yours (Drums) with the assistance of software which we'll provide on our website. In STYLE VIEW, you can see the entire STYLE structure. By selecting CHORD-5 (F10), you can decide either to use AUDIO (and therefore select from a data base of guitar and other instrument parts that reside in AUDYA) or MIDI (select any instrument to assign to this track). As for the Audio Bass and Chords, Ketron will be enhancing this library as well with future updates.

Hope that better explains it.

Thanks,

AJ

[This message has been edited by Ketron_AJ (edited 02-09-2009).]

Thanks for that AJ. The Audya sounds a lot more interesting. Can you postup any demos of the AI at all ? Thats a feature that used to exist on the Technics KN1000 years ago that literally allowed the musician to Jam with the styles and they would interact with how complex or energetic the musician played. A great feature that some how never really caught on. Also please post up some examples of these 'solo' instrument sounds so that i can actually tell whether they are as good as yamahas SA sounds or Korgs DNC .

Also, this would have been the ideal opportunity to lay to rest the concerns that have been expressed about the limited chords that the Real Audio recordings could play.

Rather than let us quarrel amongst ourselves for another 5 or 6 pages why dont you just tell us plainly what chords the Audio element of the style DOES NOT PLAY ? If Ketron Italy /USA are gagging you tell them this is a really stupid strategy as potential customers like me get put off by companies talking ' out the side of their mouthes'. In other words i dont buy from people who dont tell the whole story warts and all.....

Cheers

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-10-2009).]

The release in the us AJ you say about 15. march, but what about in Europa, some say its allredy released.
Sorry for my bad English

Thank you AJ, I appreciate you taking the time out and explaining some of the features in more detail. Will the FS6 still work with the Audya and will there be new file transfer software developed, the one that is still on ketron’s web page is a little outdated, Windows 98 edition.

Maybe not Leezone, but I am. The SD5 was great, I'm so hoping that the Audya is even that much better. I'll wait and see about pricing and if out of my price range, I'll be happy to slip back into a SD5 or SD3.

Thank You AJ for the information. It is good to hear from Ketron what they intended the product to do. Now, I think the next big think for Ketron to do with the Audya is the PC software. That software must be a tool for Audya users to configure and customize the Audya to their liking. the PC ap must be simple, easy to use and be interactive with the Audya when the Audya is connected to the computer by USB. Perhaps Ketron if not already is in contact with companies that make audio software and loops? IMO it is so much better to set-up the keyboard for live use and create styles midi files and play list on a PC computer and have everything right there on the Audya ready for the gig. Also, it would go a long way to have a DVD showing how to use some of the advance features of the Audya. But I think that may be a while down the road but better sooner than later!

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 02-10-2009).]

The Audya is out allredy in the Uk, but still when will it hit other countrys in Europa, anyone have a guess.

So your saying its out in the UK & is that a comlpete release production model?
is there any reviews from real players that have bought it yet if sdo Id like to read them if their honest & not dealers.?

I, for one, am very interested in this.

And after AJ's fuller explanation, I am even MORE interested.

May have to inject my own "stimulus package" into the economy

As AJ said, one might never (and I can hear the chuckles!!), but really, never have to buy another keyboard.

One thing I would be interested to know is how long this can be upgraded. I know with Korgs, expansion can only go as far as the internal SSD memory allows.

It was why the PA1x was not able to be upgraded any further, and the PA2x also has the same memory limitation, albeit larger.

So, yes, I would like to get "open" quantified, if possible.

Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 02-10-2009).]

Thanks AJ,

I'm a little nervous about the release dates. I remember when it was supposed to be ready by December, then January, then February, and now March...

What worries me is that even if it DOES come out in March, you are only saying that the Style creation software will come out at "a later date". For me, the Audya is worthless without Style creation as I play ethnic music.

Can you give a more specific, yet REALISTIC time frame for the software release?

AJ,

will we be able to easily convert Midi Files to styles as does Styleworks, by choosing tracks & measures of midi file, and assigning it to style part(s) in AUDYA ?

Thanks, AJ for your prompt answers to those questions. I hope we never get that stonewalling we got the last couple of weeks again This post, two weeks ago would have defused the entire mess, IMO...

That's some revolutionary stuff in there, AJ... I'll tell you something though... If the Intelligent Arranger has up to a 32 bar memory of what you played, it's capable of being linked to a Chord Sequencer and you could hand off the redundancy of repeating the chords altogether, and STILL introduce variation by analyzing the RH (or whatever new you are playing with RH/LH, too!). Once you acknowledge that there IS a lot of chord redundancy in popular music, why a tool doesn't exist to exploit this on arrangers beats me...

Now that Roland have abandoned the Chord Sequencer (ever play it on a G1000?), is there any reason why you can't add it to the Audya?

I tell you, the first arranger from ANYBODY (including MS or Wersi ) that reintroduces this amazing tool will get my cash no questions asked! I felt that Riff Mode ALMOST got the point, but preset changes was dumb (sorry!). Now that the Audya has a 32 bar memory for chord changes, why not reintroduce this feature, but cue it from the IA window?

I WANT MY LEFT HAND BACK...

OK, I feel better now

The guitar loops... any chance of just coming flat out and saying WHAT extra chords have been recorded for the audio ONLY section? I still have trouble envisioning what this will work like without at least dim aug and sus. None of those can be made from a maj/min/7th at all, and it's the total dropout of the audio loop that has most of us worried. Spalding made a very good point by stating that if you CAN'T tell the difference, why bother with loops at all, and if you CAN.... well, there goes your Unplugged, audio loop guitar styles, doesn't it?

Anyway, once again, thanks for the info... keep it coming.

And.... I can't BELIEVE that no-one at the Jam was interested in playing the Audya! If they had wanted to jam, they could have jammed on that, couldn't they? I would have been all over it, I assure you!

Anyway... if your software boffins are still working on the Audya, ask them this; Isn't there ANY way to increase the sample RAM past 64MB..? As fast as this loads (you seemed to indicate a 2MB/sec rate or so) a 512MB limit as a pre-load for a gig now seems a bit more practical. It would be what, about four minutes? That's worth doing. The 25 minutes a Yamaha would take for the same amount, not so much

And, how about the Chord Sequencer? You seem 80% already there...

Thanks for the info AJ, and your patience with our impatience!

either via AUDYA or software or both ?

the "total dropout of the audio loop" has me worried too Diki, and AJ, Ketron

i would want, or shall i say expect that the AUDYA play Maj, Min, 7th, Dim, Aug, Sus ALL with Audio loops

and then if need be, a 6th, 9th, 11th, 13th etc... introduce that one "missing note" via midi guitar note while continuing to play the Audio Loop

playing a C one measure with audio guitar loop, and then next meaure playing a C Aug, and having AUDYA stop playing audio and switch to total midi, and then playing a Dm, and AUDYA going back to Audio loop seems that it would be QUITE noticeable, at least to MY ears.

but maybe there is hope as AJ said:

"As for the Audio Bass and Chords, Ketron will be enhancing this library as well with future updates."

the question is: what is Ketron's definition of "enhancing" ??

i prefer the word "expanding"

Here is what I have from another forum, (by the way reel good forum for arranger.)

I've just spoken with Keys Music in the UK and the Audya has definitely been received here in the UK and units have also been sold

and what forum is this?

Ahhh... the CraigUK site where you can't even read the posts without his approval...

I can understand posting needing membership, but just to READ? Very few sites impose that. What can he be possibly trying to hide?

Did Osama get his Audya yet? Has that Iranian styles package got shipped yet? Do they come with box cutters if shipped to Saudi Arabia?

Release date - March 15 ... "...beware the IDES of March !!! ..."

t.

That site is still alive?

Audya plays Maj, Min with audio loops
for 67h, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th it adds a note via MIDI

for Dim, Aug, Sus. it replaces the entire pattern with a MIDI one.

The MIDI replacement is quite noticeable in some styles where a "remixed" version of audio loops is used (for example a dance style with a wah wah guitar loop, the DISCO_MIX loop, number 60). There are really a few of these and are made by playing two loops together, one panned to the left and the other to the right, the panning is quite noticeable using headphones. Well... when MIDI parts kicks in are played in the centre, so when you play a 7th chord you hear the two loops on the left and right and a single note comin out from the center... when you play a Dim, Sus, Aug... the two loops disappear and you hear a midi pattern played in the center... yes... quite noticeable on these....
For other loops, the MIDI kick in is noticeable more on rock guitars parts.

I measured the loading time of the STEREO_GRAND.INS (36.026.936 bytes) and it takes 30 seconds to load.

so you mean noticable in a bad way or?

Hi AJ
you mentioned software for editing the DJ loops.
Does the software also edit the notes in the midi tracks in a style??
ie for those who create styles from scratch is there some sort of note editing available?


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ketron_AJ:

Full functioning software (for editing/creating DJ loops, styles, customization ...etc) will be made available and downloadable on our website at a later date. The complete manual is also being revised and will soon be up on our website for download.

Import/Recording Grooves:- Yes, you'll be able to use yours (Drums) with the assistance of software which we'll provide on our website. In STYLE VIEW, you can see the entire STYLE structure. By selecting CHORD-5 (F10), you can decide either to use AUDIO (and therefore select from a data base of guitar and other instrument parts that reside in AUDYA) or MIDI (select any instrument to assign to this track). As for the Audio Bass and Chords, Ketron will be enhancing this library as well with future updates.




------------------
best wishes
Rikki

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/PA800_StyleMaking/

if Ketron can assure us that they will "enhance" or shall i say "expand" their audio guitar chords to include Aug, Dim, Sus, 7th them i will consider purchasing AUDYA,

AUDYA really needs to play ALL the chords i play via AUDYA loops, not HALF of them.

like i said i can deal with that extra midi note for the 6,11,13 chords, as long as the main chords keep on playing via Audio.

so can Ketron please elaborate on the future "enhancement" of bass.guitar audio chords?

Drop it, Lee! It ain't happening. I'm not sure if you realize what goes into streaming audio live on demand from a keyboard - if you did you wouldn't be unrealistic. If you think that the technology isn't up to your standard of performance, just say so and leave it at that. But you're making your point too many times about the only company making a substantial step into today's technology.

Its getting too much, it is people who will never buy Audya, this is getting childish.
If you guys dont like it leave it alone, there is 300000 other options and choices,
so stop trying to pick on anything possible, even if they fixed that we'll come up
with something new that also wouldnt make sense...as it doesnt now.

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-11-2009).]

I didn't like it

However...I won't take the audya in consideration anymore... the Pa2x is coming soon in my home

Mrdave thanx for you honest answer......out of all the Audya features...not having all the different loops sound equal in quality as described when playing when they play is unacceptable....you have opened up a can of worms for sure that many have not addressed....isnt this what Diki & others have asked for Demos with more complex chords to see what "how the Audya handles them"?........enjoy your KORG unit.

Chony

if it aint happening then what does it mean when AJ said:

"As for the Audio Bass and Chords, Ketron will be enhancing this library as well with future updates."

Nedim, please list the other 30000 or so options....

Ketron: SD5, XD9, SD3, XD3, SD1.
Korg: PA2XPRO, PA800, PA588, PA500.
Roland: E80, G70, GW8, E60, E50.
Yamaha: T3, T2, T1, PSR:9000/PRO, 3000, 1500,
S900, S700.
GEM: Genesys.

Here is from last week when i met AJ at the Labs, it has stuff about the Chords:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctThgkI5N_M&feature=channel_page

More videos are coming today and tomorow.



[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-11-2009).]

ok Nedim,

where are the remaining 299,976 options ?? ;-)

Hi Dave,
congratulations on the PA2X.
Hope we see you over at the Korg Forums.

best wishes
Rikki

is there a new video demo that just shows the style interacting with more complex chords then these simple minor ones to hear how the Audya follows them & how the intellegent bass line.......no right hand just left hand chords please.

i don't need any fancy demos, shiny demos...

all i need is...

to hear the guitar audio tracks in SOLO mode, playing a Maj chord, then a Dim, then Min, then Sus, then Minor, then 7th

I want to HEAR what really happens, and how it really sounds.

i don't want or need to hear the other instruments (bass, drums, piano etc) "masking" the guitar track. :-)

oh , i just may have to ask AJ to do that on the 22nd :-)

or i just may have to try it myself ;-)

Hey, mrdave.. If Ketron won't do that, how about sticking a quick demo of this up if you still have access to the Audya...

And what about these European users that have already GOT one in their hands? Any chance of a simple demo of the guitar parts just arranger section, and soloed (you know, Unplugged, like!)?

If they are out there, someone needs to show what this puppy can REALLY do!

this is like pulling teeth n sheeeeeeeesh!!

i think pulling teeth is easier...

not to beat a dead horse BUT...

i just wanna know exactly what "enhancements" is AJ/Ketron referring to when it comes to the future of the AUDYA's guitar audio chords..??...

does he mean Ketron will just continue to record more of the same BASIC chords with different types of guitars for existing and upcoming styles ??

OR

Ketron will record MORE chords for existing and future styles (ie. Aug, Dim, Sus, 7th) so that we never have TOTAL audio guitar dropouts ???

once my question is answered, i will stop asking... till then you'll just have to deal... ;-)

thank you

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 02-11-2009).]

Lee, i'll show you the rest next week when i see you in NYC.
DNJ, there is few more Demos, not specifically what you asked
but there will be a lot of chords alone too.

WHen I'll go to visit my friend at the music store I'll try to do some recording, last time I wasn't able to do that because the audya didn't recognize my USB pen, it was a 128K USB 1.1 pen and didn't get recognized, next time I'll go with a 2.0 2GB one...

BTW: Reasons that let me opt for PA2x:
1) Far more programmability (specially sounds, the possibility to program up to 16 oscillators per sound is really intriguing me...)
2) Better drawbars sounds (at least for my taste, I didn't like Ketron frawbars at all... sounded just like plain sine waves and if you play them over the 61-key range they wrap around COMPLETELY... i.e. if you play D7 key you get the same sound as D6 and if you play B1 key you get B2 sound)
3) One Touch Buttons for styles, I always liked that feature, to program 4 sounds related to the style you select. The Audya has Registrations, but I found them not so immediate.
4) Price. Paying 500+ euro more to get the only thing I liked on the audya (live drums on styles, the only thing I think renders the styles outstanding) was out of question.
5) I don't need 5 players, DJ loops, key tunes (even Pa2x however can do key tunes)...
6) RAM on the Pa2X is expandable to 256MB, while on the audya is fixed at 64MB.

Things of audya perhaps I will miss are very good audio drums on styles and very good fillins and breaks, pa2x has only 2 fills and 1 break, I hope Korg guys will improve this just as they added the 3rd ending on the pa1x when it had only two at first .

Thanx and leave out the right hand i just want to hear the more in depth left hand chords & all the fluff recognition associated with them as they play and change that's all.

At 1:51 AJ plays a Sus chord and if you listen carefully you can hear the sound is a little different...

It sound like the strum changed a little but it didn't sound bad. I don't think the dim, aug etc chord changes would really matter to me if they were midi. as long as it doesn't drop out. but it sounds good, like a live guitar.

common we need real demos showing what we are asking ....is this so hard to do?
or do you want to spend $5000.000 and then realize what a mistake you made?

MrDave,
I hope you like the PA2XPRO...I sure do...a lot of the same reasons.
One thing...once you get it, and have time to dig in and see what's really there...I think you will have a BIG smile on your face.

Wait until you see what the new DNC is capable of!

Lee

I did not know that so many persons on this forum play a style with just one track soloed? I would think the point of an arranger is to sound like a band? So why is it important to have just one track playing. Isn't it importan t as to how the style sound as a whole and how it sounds in a practical setting?

Your are right to a point To the Genesys but arrangers are so incredibly felxible, people use them in very many different ways and so if people want to reduce the accompaniment just to a guitar section then thats what they want. I have heard the latest demos from AJ and i have no problem with them. I think the strongest selling point for the Audya is the AI. i would like to see more demo's of this on different styles. The live intelligent interaction is what really sets the keyboard apart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVTMtKNgVmw&feature=channel_page

Aj Whats going on with the brass in within this funk fusion style at 2.20 in this clip ? sounds like it is not recognising the chord correctly .

Yhe same style is being used in this clip and the same odd brass is happening here at 1.53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ5HoRPBvBs

Sorry for all the questions. Is the Audya in the UK and where can i try one ?

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-11-2009).]

Hi Spalding
http://www.ketronmusic.co.uk/

Give them a bell, and they should be able to tell you where your nearest dealer is.

Regards

Bill

...And if the sound is to your satisfaction, will you buy one? Just curious.

Hahahahahaha...

10% will say "I'm getting one!"
50% will complain that it's too expensive, heavy, flimsy etc.
30% will say "it doesn't have enough sounds in it!"
10% will say "maybe I'll get one someday".

Of the 20% who indicated that they might or definitely would purchase, 0.5% will actually do so, yielding total sales of 4 keyboards.

....only if you start with 800 people.

chas

Ever the optimist.

chony,

i will get one if Ketron enhances/expands library to includes Audio Guitar Loops for All Chords.

one extra midi note to make chord is OK
total audio dropout in a NO for me...

Al demo's of the Audya i hear Drums,no other instrument can be heard in the style's.
Is this thing a hoax ore something ??

Never heard a decent demo of it.

Impuls.

Impuls,

why not enhance AUDYA's best sounding style part?

isn't that the best way to "hide" it's flaws?


ye, ye, audio guitar tracks are meant to enhance NOT replace the part...whatever

30 seconds to load 36 megabytes into the Audya?? That is classic USB 1.1 transfer speeds. But we all knew that right?

When you're on stage in front of thousands of people (okay, I'm an optimist I admit ) those 30 seconds can seem like a lifetime unfortunately. It's unfortunate because Ketron could have "very easily" spent a few extra bucks and given the Audya USB 2.0.

>> Every second before an audience counts. Twiddling your thumbs for 30 seconds or more waiting for something to load into the keyboard isn't my idea of spending time wisely. USB 2.0 could have reduced that load time to a fraction of what it actually took. >> Thanks for being penny wise and pound foolish with the Audya Ketron. It may come back to haunt you in the end. Maybe it already has...

All the best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 02-12-2009).]

Mike, the sample loads from hard drive, not USB. That one very large piano sample is the only one that takes more than a couple of seconds to load. I watched AJ load several of them.
DonM

AJ quote:

"We are working on some demos that should be up and running soon."

question: how soon is "soon" ???

In the "Audya way" like we've learned it by now?
Answer: Thats years!!

GJ

Boy you guys are really hammering Ketron, I mean the thing isn't even finished yet, so give them a break, or you may just chuck away the greatest developement in arrangers yet. Shure, I have lots more questions b4 I may buy one, and it wont be without a hands on tryout, so give them a go, if you guys were as hard on Yamaha and Korg, wow I can only wonder how those keyboards may have improved till now, maybe thats it, we all need to put the torch on the other makers as well, at least I'm seeing and hearing more Ketron than I ever did with Korg, and Yamaha b4 a release to this point. Remenber they are not even in most countries for sale yet, so hold out there until you try it for yourself, and no keyboard is perfect remember that, I think that Yammy and Korg have learnt how to hide the flaws better!!!

Keyb, you got you calculations wrong,
Audya doesnt even load from USB.

You have heard it hear first the Audya will have the same stats as the PSR 900 numbers.

God, Mike... How many times do I have to say it?

The interface speed has got JACK to do with how fast a sampler loads up. Other than an out and out computer (which MS and Wersi have), show me ONE sampler, from anyone, that loads up at USB2 speeds... or even USB1.1, even...

MotifXS...? NO. FantomG...? NO. Korg M3...? NO. Kurzweil...? NO.

Find something that CAN do it, before you bitch at Ketron for not... One thing the Ketron sampler does, that NOTHING else hardware does... It multitasks. It's the first thing I ever heard of that can load samples and still keep playing. Doesn't THAT float your boat? No need to keep twiddling while it loads... play something!

Do you even HAVE a sampler? Ever use one? How come you don't know this stuff?

Sorry guys, with all do respect, i dont know most of you and what you know but few of you
in here are just blabering and i also know few of you dont even know how to turn a machine on.
To some of you SuperArticulation or terms like Filters, Amps and other stuff is some Martian
language...and here you are judging a machine that you probably never phsically see it, not buy it
...i repeat not all but you reall dont make sense...this is sad, you falling on a low level, this topic is
not even my level to reply anymore and i wont on this topic anymore...
DIKI said the rest...keep blabering...



Thats a wrong queston, you should ask if some people even know what that is...

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-12-2009).]

This could have all been settled if they would just show us a demo of what the audya does with complex chords changes.....a simple request that just keeps getting side stepped....plain & simple.

Yamaha is USB 2, and is even slower.

Classic case of a keyboard manufacturer not using hardware that is optimized to take advantage of the USB 2.0 interface.

>> Okay, my bad. I thought the piano sample was being loaded from USB. OTOH, taking 30 seconds from the Hard Drive is even more disconcerting considering hard drive transfer speeds exceeds those of USB 2.0 The Audya probably has a chug a lug 4,200 RPM 2.5" HD I suppose.

It is quite apparent, to me anyway, that we have "another" manufacturer stopping up the pipes i.e. producing unneeded "bottlenecks" within the innards of the keyboard itself instead of optimizing it for highest efficiency and thereby taking advantage of transfer speeds inherent to the devices themselves. At least that should be the goal anyway. It is up to the manufacturer(s) whether they choose to instill optimum efficiency for all given devices inherent on the keyboard though - i.e. the CPU(s), memory controllers, mainboard(s) (northbridge/southbridge) FSB, Hard Drive/SSD (along with RPM spindle speed) and or SATA/IDE, USB interface type, capacitors, Flash RAM type, RAM type e.g. PC100/DDR/DDR2/DDR3 etc., etc., etc... >> And don't think it has to cost an arm and leg for those superior higher efficiency parts either, because in most cases it doesn't, except when we're talking about SSD's for hard drives. And it will probably take keyboard manufacturers another 20 years (since they lag the common computer industry timetable many fold ) before we ever see SSD drives in keyboards. Unless, of course, things change within the keyboard industry... Don't hold your breath though.

All the best,
Mike

Isnt USB 3.0 coming out soon also?

yes, it is and in fact....

USB3 will be incorporated into the AUDYA3

Mike, I seriously recommend Googling some basic facts about embedded hardware, data pipes in chips commonly used by keyboard manufacturers, the difference between a computer and a hardware device, basic stuff like that...

Without even a basic knowledge of how hardware works, as opposed to computers, you are merely extrapolating one from the other, and that's just NOT the way it works.

If you want computer speeds on a hardware sampler, you could choose the Muse Receptor series, MS, Wersi or Neko's. Anything other than these will be glacially slow. It's no coincidence that Hollywood has migrated from hardware samplers to software ones over the last ten years. But hardware, at the current generation of controller chips available to keyboard manufacturers, is simply incapable of keeping up with even a good USB1 system, let alone USB2 or eSATA.

Get your facts straight before you swing wildly at a keyboard that is actually BETTER than most others... (at this feature, anyway!)

So, here it is, a recording of a live guitar part playing different flavours of C chord.

Progression is:

Cmaj, Cmin, Cmaj, C7, Csus4, Cmaj, Cdim, Cmaj, Caug

GuitarChords.mp3

OMG that was terrible!!! what the heck happened on the Csus4 chord the sound changed in claerity & went mono left side also? is this what happens when the the smf & mp3s kick in to the the style during complex chord play? Is this why we havnt heard any of these demos yet until now?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-14-2009).]

Me oh my, this sounds bad.
Hopefully this is a settings issue, if not, hmmmmmm...........
GJ

So the proof is really in the pudding...?
I doubt that's a settings issue the other previous chords were ok until the complex ones kicked in.......

I think something must have gone wrong somewhere, as I can’t imagine the standard voices being that major a difference from the loops.

On the other hand, a lot of modern (Complex) styles fall apart if you remove one of the tracks that the manufacture has incorporated into them, so that could also be the reason. (This is the main reason I prefer Roland styles, rather then the all singing all dancing Yamaha styles)

Regards

Bill

MRDAVE it is very bad what you are doing and it is not fair towards Ketron and the members
in here too, you are simply lying to them. This is an unfinished Audya that you are using,
no matter who the hell on the forum you are and who you are or what you know i have no respect
for you, you might have an agenda with this but
this is not the Audya people will pay for.
Trust me, i know that a lot better then YOU!

Wow! That's not a good sign...unless the panning for the non-audio guitar parts was set wrong.

Give me my Yamaha mega voiced guitar parts any day...they read ALL the chords AND they sound incredible.

The Audya has more dominant drums (which you may or may not want) but there's very little to recommend the audio guitar tracks if that's the way they behave.

Very disappointing.

Ian

nedim this is why ketron should of never even mentioned the Audya until it is a full working production model...now that everyone has a bad taste in their mouth & questions never answered or demonstrated until this horrible one......it will be an uphill battle for sure for them.....& then add on a $5000.00 price tag I wanted to really see Audya be successful but little by little they are losing altitude....sorry.

AMEN Ian AMEN!!

DNJ you are right about it but also that doesnt
give us the right to blaber nonsense in here as
whatever we want. We can only judge once the
instrument is finished, not now. All over the
forum i follow MRDave and its not good what he
is doing, he is trying to be nice and sneaky
about it but most members take him seriously
especially the ones with less experience...

Could this bad sounding examples have something to do in what way
the chords are played.
I mean, if it's in rooth or different inversion?

Anyway, if it's so, then Ketron surely have a job to do.

GJ

Heyyy, we can blabber as much as we wanna do, it's Ketron who have to come
into the sceene and prove what's wrong in our "blabber" and what's coming.
After all, who started the big Audya hype years ago?
Way to early if you ask me, they should have waited a bit longer.

GJ

This audya is the one Ketron sent to the music shop to be SOLD. So regarding the hardware it must be the final revision. Talking of the software implementation, perhaps it's not complete, in effect it has things missing, and many flaws, but I sincerely doubt the problem with live guitars will go away. The only way to correct this is to provide live versions of ALL different chords instead of emulating them via MIDI, and this would take a LOT of memory and the chips inside the audya simply can't cope with this.

Please note that with this I don't want to say Audya doesn't sound good. That sample was created muting ALL other tracks and leaving only the ACC5 track where live guitar sounds are. If you hear the style with all parts sounding, it's more difficult to notice the change, since in ACC4 for example there another MIDI guitar that plays over the live one and drums cover a lot the sound since have a high volume.