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#255644 - 02/04/09 02:28 AM My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC


Yes, those are AJ's hands, lol, he was doing something on the XLR's.
And lets start:
Back in the begining of the 90s there was a Roland Arranger i think it was called E-40 INTELIGENT ARRANGER.
It was a small machine, i think 3 octaves or something and it was called Inteligent Arranger but it was Dumb as any
other piece of plastic. Then the Interactive Workstation term came out which was justified but not the Inteligent term.
Now, the Inteligent Arranger can be finally for the first time justified on the Audya cuz its Inteligent and sometimes
thinks like human...to justify this an example:
A conventional arranger we have a style of 8 Bars/Measuers and you hit start and it starts 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then
it finishes at 8 goes back to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and so on...and thats all you get. Now on the Audya you dont get that.
You hit start and you start playing and the Arranger starts to get bored and starts thinking what to do right away,
and it does this: starts again 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and comes back to 1..NO!!! Goes nowhere actually the Drummer and
the Guitarist go on their own like drunk, you hear the arranger plays something that you didnt actually record in the
but comes out of nowhere...what it means is, when it goes back to 1, not that its only not going back to 1 but also
ADDS and TAKES notes, meaning, each measure next time comes on again is not the same, there is nothing that
will sound robotic like on conventional arranger even using MIDI styles, not just AUDIO styles on the AUDYA.
The arranger calculates ahead of time and then when it gets to that point it implies what calculated earlier.
Now back to start:
This particular Audya that i have in front of me is not a finished model, half of the OS is not there, half of Audio loops,
its around 50-60% of the Final Audya and yet...no arranger has impressed me this much in my life as up to date, NONE.
Hey, thats not a statement, thats only my liking and taste but we are way behind with any existing arranger, forget the
internet guessing and rummors, this is not an Arranger, nor competition to PA2X or T3, this is something else, new,
a begining of a new thing in music. Now, a 50-60% finished machine impressed me more then any existing machine.
God bless me when i recieve the Final Audya and to Lee, yes, it will have a nice EVENT and SAMPLING editor right
on it, on the synth, this aint SD5 or something like that. Ok, the INTELIGENT thing was one of the new things:

KEY TUNES: its a new thing and probably the thing that impressed me the most. It works like this, i'll try simple:
Lets say we have a KMP and on each Key we have a sample of Improvisation of some instruments, like loop,
you hit the key and you hear a nice guitar riff then next key some nice sax solo e tc...yes KMP would do the same thing
but it wont...KEYTUNE does it in a different way...it synchs it with the style and what happens to the sax solo is, if you
change the style the tempo of the sax solo changes, so no matter what key you hit the tempo is WITH STYLE.
In a way like Korgs Pads but not really, this is different its usfeull to me actually more for recorded Audio Solos and Impros.

MIDJAY: thats where the fun starts, as a stupid example, you take a song and you cut it in pieces and you save them as
DJ LOOPS which is MIDJAY file and then, each part at the same time is applied to Var 1 to 4 and also to Fills, Intros and else.
Right away it synchs with style, it can be thrown to a ACC track and you control each part thru variations like the style.
Ok, that might be useless, who would do that with MP3 song, i wont but...a percussion loop or drum loop even audio loop...
uuuuhhhh...gain, simillar to Korgs Pads but still different, in here, when you change Var the Pad changes too, its complex.
Yes, we all know about MidJay but integrated on the Audya is a whole new story now.

AUDIO STYLES: originally and Audya's agenda is to be an Audio Arranger, i mean Audio Controlled, not MIDI notes as any
conventional arranger. I have never EVER heard any better sounding Style then the Audio styles inside it, i hit my head in the
wall, it kills any existing arranger, including PA2XPRO or T3 and trust me, theres hell of a lot of Audio Styles in it.
Every Var next time you come back sounds different, every measure next time you come back is different. AJ was laughing
at me when i wanted to start sampling some of the snares and kicks off the rock styles, i went crazy, deppending on your playing
of the chords thats how the whole style behaves, every few seconds you hear some snare, bass line or something added in the
right time and position to make it sounds better and you never recorded those notes...YAYYYYYYY!!!!!! And the best is, if you
change chords too fast or in particular way, creates its own small FillIns, if you change a var in a wrong time again its own FILLIN.

SUPER SOLOS: or also called RAM INS, Ketron didnt use terminology as SA or SA2, MegaVoices or RX or DNC. Its a new thing,
there is no ASS.SW, everything is controller while playing, if you hit C then F it plays one thing and if you hit C then G is another
control, Velocity, Legato, Staccato, Aftertouch, speed between notes and many other things, those sounds are Amazing, when
i played the Trumpet from RamIns my eyes popped out. RAMINS is actually what we call the SampledSounds, they reside on the
HD, you LOAD them on a separate Bank, save them and when you start same as on the new PA, starts fast with the OS.

UPDATES: the synth has its own conventional ROM and also and HD for everything. After the release the synth will be worked
on for another 2 years, by factory, providing more styles, sounds and different OS, it is an Open Achitecture Synth, anything at
anytime is possible, if someones is willing to do it there is no limitation to this synth, OS, Sounds or Styles.

Those are the 4 things that impressedme the most, there is tonz new things we never used or heard of before but i cant write
whole book or a manual in here. The synths is also not as heavy as i expected, maybe lighter or exact as PA2X or or something.
Now, when it comes to Chord Recognition there was some fuss on here which was wrong, testing an unfinished model.
Every brand has its bad side in Chord Recognition, certain chords that Korg reads Yamaha wont and the opposite, this is the way
it is and we all know that for a fact. On the Audya actually when you change a chord on Audio Styles the riff and style itself changes,
the Guitars or the Bassline sound different like a real band would do. Honestly till today i was very pessimistic and scared about the
Audya.

Back to Audya, after all i said, its not even half, YES, there is secrets and a lot more to come then we know, trust me, therez more to it.
As for final release i cant say nothing, i have no clue but it is going to happen, this time. I dont know, i cant really write everything in
here, certain things i forgot to write...whatever, its not a bad intention writing this on here, i just wanted to share, this baby is coming to
my house nd it will stay there for loooooonnnnnngggg...this is a synth for the next 10 years.


Thanks for reading this.
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#255645 - 02/04/09 02:41 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
Hi Nedim,

Well put. This is one awesome arranger and I cannot wait to lay my hands on one of my own.

Absolutely true - If one wants to compare to a Tyros 3 or Korg Pa, the opposite must also be considered i.e. why is the T3 not so intelligent, why can it not handle audio loops etc. I wish the critisizers would keep this in mind when they air their complaints.

Henni
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#255646 - 02/04/09 03:05 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Marketing Marketing Marketing!
That is the key to any new keyboard arranger release.
Ketron need to start marketing this product. They need to tell the public what this product can do an imply how it is different from other arrangers.

If Ketron does not do that then you will continue to have pundits )like in other threads on this forum) to control the discussion as it relates to Audya.

If one thing these innovative arranger manufacturers (Ketron and Mediastation) can learn from Yamaha is marketing.

Look at how Yamaha marketed the T3 and PSR S900. They told you how good it is until some persons actually believed it even if the improvements and actual features may not support the claim.

Ketron, do not let the pundits control the discussion regarding the Audya start to take charge and highlight the strong points of the Audya.
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#255647 - 02/04/09 03:09 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Thats the whole problem Ketron has, is 2 old guys down in Italy which
probably dont care anymore and have no clue of anything, there was never
any Marketing on Ketron as others do, its funny.
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#255648 - 02/04/09 06:28 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
This particular Audya that i have in front of me is not a finished model, half of the OS is not there, half of Audio loops,
its around 50-60% of the Final Audya .....

Well, it's been a while since Audya hype first started, and now we hear 50 - 60% final
Audya, then it's 40 - 50 % unfinished, and sale started in Italy and some other European
countries already?

Me oh my, then they still have lots of time for marketing, if progress continues like
we've seen so far, the "final" product will be ready in about 2 - 3 years or so?

Or maybe it's so that the 40 - 50 % unfinished will be sold separately as a lot of high
priced addons?

GJ
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#255649 - 02/04/09 06:45 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Why the impatience.....?
just wait till it is on the market...meanwhile I'm sure you can make wonderful music without Audya for sure with so many of the great arrangers we already have.New isnt always better.

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#255650 - 02/04/09 08:21 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nedim:
[B]

"Now if I can just get these darn letters to stick" ................
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#255651 - 02/04/09 08:37 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
you know what i hope for?

a "s900" form of audya! if ketron comes up with a MOTL, putting in the audio styles and "inteligent" behaviour, in a lesser number probably, i believe there will be ALOT of converts...

me included.
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#255652 - 02/04/09 09:11 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Thanks for this review. As I have said, I was sold after hearing AJ play one song. As the demo progressed, I started drooling. My wife just shook her head and said "How much?" and then she said, "I guess it doesn't matter."
By ten minutes into the demo, I hastily wrote a "for sale" sign, got up and hung it on the E50.
I can't imagine the one I heard was only 50 percent. I certainly HOPE so though. If it gets 50 percent better it will be out of this world.
DonM
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#255653 - 02/04/09 09:29 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
I stand on everything i said, yes, Ketrons marketing sux and it will bring them nowhere but this synth
is not even ... i cant explain, what we expect from it its probably only 50% of what it will really give us.
DNJ is right too but the delay must be there for a reason, dont forget, its an open architecture, many
things will be added as we ask. I dont have big influence on the people i work for Ketronb but i know
for a fact i can ask them for certain things on the machine and actually get them same as i did with the
KORG PA team...and Don, keep your wife away from shows like this, i used to have one too.
Gunnar, i waited this long and hell yeah i will wait another 3 months
if i have to if they trying to make it better.
For your info, and trust my word.
NOONE IN THE WORLD HAS BOUGHT THIS SYNTH YET!!!
Maybe they paid and waiting but noone has the machine as bought.

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-04-2009).]
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#255654 - 02/04/09 09:42 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
so if this AUDYA is at 50% complete as far as styles/loops/sounds, then shouldn't it sell for 50% off :-)

really though, if it's only half finished, WHY is it already on sale in Europe,

do the BUYERS have to finish developing/programming it themselves ????

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#255655 - 02/04/09 09:47 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Jerry T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
I do wish that Ketron would get this board to market aready - then, pronto, start working on the Audya module!
Ciao,
Jerry

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#255656 - 02/04/09 09:48 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Lee, as i said, why half the price when you are not getting thaT?
I dont get it, whats so hard to understand, noone has paid for this synth
and actually got it yet, there is some time to go first before that happens.
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#255657 - 02/04/09 10:40 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Nedim you yourself said yourself it was 50% from the final product,

also, i believe they have sold/delivered a few AUDYA's in Portugal already....

so that would mean they are selling it 50% complete,

AJ? Ketron?

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#255658 - 02/04/09 10:43 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
I stand on everything i said, yes, Ketrons marketing sux and it will bring them nowhere but this synth
is not even ... i cant explain, what we expect from it its probably only 50% of what it will really give us.
DNJ is right too but the delay must be there for a reason, dont forget, its an open architecture, many
things will be added as we ask. I dont have big influence on the people i work for Ketronb but i know
for a fact i can ask them for certain things on the machine and actually get them same as i did with the
KORG PA team...and Don, keep your wife away from shows like this, i used to have one too.
Gunnar, i waited this long and hell yeah i will wait another 3 months
if i have to if they trying to make it better.
For your info, and trust my word.
NOONE IN THE WORLD HAS BOUGHT THIS SYNTH YET!!!
Maybe they paid and waiting but noone has the machine as bought.

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-04-2009).]


Hey, my wife is cool. She understand that with my limited ability, I need the best tools I can get! She has never questioned any gear I buy. She's a saint!
DonM
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#255659 - 02/04/09 10:51 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Nedim,

if you say noone in the world has bought the Audya, then how do you explain this?
http://ketronaudya.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/dsc_6960.jpg?w=322&h=480

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#255660 - 02/04/09 11:04 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
What a mess

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#255661 - 02/04/09 11:30 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:
Nedim you yourself said yourself it was 50% from the final product,

also, i believe they have sold/delivered a few AUDYA's in Portugal already....

so that would mean they are selling it 50% complete,

AJ? Ketron?

Lee, yes, thats what i said but read what i said again, its not the final product,
that doesnt mean they will sell it like that and no, they didnt deliver it anywhere yet.
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#255662 - 02/04/09 11:32 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
So, do you see my picture with the AUDYA???
I can claim i have one too, cant i? Completely!
And yes, the Box, i saw the Box too yesterday, i could've gotten a picture like that too.
Even if they sold, or sell it as it is, they still work on the synth, you will get the update.
I am not talkint about Korg's or others kind of update, this is major things.
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#255663 - 02/04/09 11:39 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Zuki, i dont understand the point of your post.
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#255664 - 02/04/09 11:42 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Zuki was making a joke, because it looked as if AJ were attaching the KETRON letters, even though we know he wasn't.
DonM
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#255665 - 02/04/09 12:04 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Oh ok, as i can see on the picture his fingers
are right on the XLR, more then one inch below the letters.
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#255666 - 02/04/09 12:10 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Nedim,

sorry but you are INCORRECT when you say, no AUDYA has been delivered / sold...

direct from Portugal's site which i will translate for you as i am Portuguese:

"Os poucos Ketron AUDYA que foram disponibilizados pela fábrica chegaram a Portugal e já estão a ser vendidos aos Clientes que os aguardavam pacientemente.

A satisfação é uma constante em todos os felizes proprietários destas fabulosas maquinas."

TRANSLATION:
The few Ketron AUDYA that were released from the factory arrived in Portugal and are already being sold to our clients that were patiently waiting for them.
What's constant is the satisfaction in all of the happy OWNERS of these fabulous machines.


So Nedim, that box is not just a box laying around near the demo unit...or just someone taking a picture of a box, it's a proud owner of an actual AUDYA..

they sold as they arrived, as is.... whether they are 40%, 50% complete only Ketron knows

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 02-04-2009).]

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#255667 - 02/04/09 12:17 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
where's DIKI?

is he OK?
it's just strange that he has not chimed in on this thread, which has been here since early morning

would love to hear his take on this thread...

let us know you're OK Diki...

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#255668 - 02/04/09 12:53 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Not enough FACTS on this thread, I'm afraid. No shortage of people speaking FOR Ketron that have no official word of any kind...

I have got to the point that unless it comes from AJ, it has no more weight than a post by any of us here

But I'll say what many of you are probably thinking... If Ketron ARE shipping this thing in an unfinished state, it bodes poorly for their financial health to do something so ill-conceived.

Now don't get me wrong. My G70 was shipped in what many of us thought was an 'unfinished' state, but those shortcomings didn't effect the basic operation of the unit. If entire chord types are 'missing' but will appear later, that's a primary function issue.

On the whole, though, I think that many of you are being VERY optimistic that this chord issue will be rectified 'at a later date'. After all the work put into the OS to have extensions added in by MIDI guitars, and whole chord types added in by MIDI parts, this isn't something you do at the drop of a hat. They have been working on this system for a LONG time for it to work effectively. In fact, it seems like this 'feature' has been in the pipe a LONG time. If fixing this issue involved such a complex solution, you can bet that they pretty much exhausted the ways to try and do it more simply with just the correct chord type loops...
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#255669 - 02/04/09 12:59 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
not to beat a dead horse Ketron BUT...

TELL IT LIKE IT IS !!!

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#255670 - 02/04/09 02:00 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
so what i conclude from all this is that:

a few Ketron AUDYAS have been delivered/sold for however many thousands of Euros,

and those sold are NOT the FINAL product, but rather maybe 50% of a final product,

a "beta-like" version of the real one to come at some point in time.

boy, i'd be really pissed if i wasn't told this, maybe that explains the SILENCE....

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#255671 - 02/04/09 03:16 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
“If entire chord types are 'missing'”

Lets be real specific on this issue.
The Audya does recognized most chord types and extensions.
For example, if you have a all midi style I am sure there is no problem with chord types. If there is a style with both midi and audio tracks, then the midi tracks would play the extensions not the audio tracks.
The audio tracks may not be playing the extensions, but Ketron never said that they would.

I take it that Ketron meant the audio tracks to enhance the style not replace the style hence the fact that they are no styles with all audio tracks.
That is why Ketron needs to market the Audya and shape the discussion about the Audya and not allow people to speculate about what the Audya can and can not do and then make it seem as if the Audya is lacking.

Regarding whether the Audya is or would be distributed as a “finish” product, that is a moot point with a keyboard that is open because with it been open, changes can and may be made that would drastically change the sound, and operation of the instrument.

To understand that concept you would have to get your self to think out side of a Yamaha T3 keyboard concept.


You need to start thinking in this way: I bought a PC computer with windows 2000 now I can upgrade that same computer with windows xp. I do not have to buy a new CPU.
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#255672 - 02/04/09 03:20 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
If this is true it is not the first time from a keyboard manufacturer. The Roland Fantom G was shipped early to meet a shipping deadline and consequently the OS was not complete upon its release to the public (still not in my opinion because the OS is still missing important "scissor and glue" functions for the Sequencer for one, and other omissions too in my opinion). Kurzweil is another example. Their PC3X shipped with "missing" functionality. So I could understand how Ketron might do the same thing with the Audya. In other words, it will be a work in progress and the OS updates over the course of two or so years that should finally bring the Audya up to snuff. On a side, do you not remember the Roland G-70 patty cake patty cake?? Roland spent several years re-tooling the G70 and coming up with the latest version with version number 3 which is the current one. FWIW, on the Richter Scale of 1 to 10 a "3" can barely be felt.

Hopefully Roland's next totl arranger will be of the magnitude of around a 7 or 8. You know,.. shake things up some! Put back in the Chord Sequencer - (as Diki shouts Hallelujah!!) give it USB 2.0, put some substantial WAV ROM in the thing and give it a decent VH just to mention a few.

Back to the Audya. How much dinero are we talking about again?

All the best,
Mike
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#255673 - 02/04/09 03:38 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Is the unit that Nedim was using perhaps the prototype the AJ still has. I can't see Ketron shipping units that are not complete. I personally demoed a unfinished SD1 prototype when it was that Bell Ketron and when the new units arrived to the USA they sent demo sd1 back to be completed. The new SD1 was already in europe but Bell ketron still had the SD1 demo. So I think that were jumping the gun here.... At least I hope so.

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 02-04-2009).]
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#255674 - 02/04/09 03:54 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mrdave Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Rimini, Italy
Here in Italy Audya is out and selling. In italian forums you can read of people that bought it.

Regarding style play, I found no "Intelligence" on the audya... just audio drums have a lot of measures recorded. (8).

Regarding unfinished features... well... one for example is the chord recognition settings. You can choose from Easy1, Easy2, Standard, Rootless modes, but whatever you choose you get Easy1, other modes are simply not implemented yet. This got me crazy when trying to play in pianist mode... By now it's impossible to do, since each single key pressed will change to the maj chord of that key....

As I said already, right hand sounds... are more or less like my G70 sounds. G70 piano is far superior for example, also G70 oboe and organs. Drawbars on the audya are simply sine waves, really can't compare with G70 VK derived ones.


[This message has been edited by mrdave (edited 02-04-2009).]

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#255675 - 02/04/09 04:09 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by mrdave:
Here in Italy Audya is out and selling. In italian forums you can read of people that bought it.

Regarding style play, I found no "Intelligence" on the audya... just audio drums have a lot of measures recorded. (8).

Regarding unfinished features... well... one for example is the chord recognition settings. You can choose from Easy1, Easy2, Standard, Rootless modes, but whatever you choose you get Easy1, other modes are simply not implemented yet. This got me crazy when trying to play in pianist mode... By now it's impossible to do, since each single key pressed will change to the maj chord of that key....


So your saying in realty Ketron has pushed an UNFINSHED product on unknowing buyers correct?

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#255676 - 02/04/09 04:10 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Incomplete or not, I like the vocal effects and vocalizer on the audya much better than then one on my Yamaha s900.
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#255677 - 02/04/09 05:17 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by mc:
Incomplete or not, I like the vocal effects and vocalizer on the audya much better than then one on my Yamaha s900.



So your going to spend $5000.00 just for a vocalizer?.....I use a digitech with my S900 sounds great $150.00

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#255678 - 02/04/09 05:29 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Let's take this in order... To the genesys;

The Audya has never bee accused of not RECOGNIZING any chord thrown at it. What it DOES have a problem with is actually PLAYING them in audio loop form. mrdave reports maj min and a few 7ths. And that is THAT. Play a dim or an aug, and the loop stops cold, a MIDI part plays until you change back to a maj or min again. No sus's, no aug's. Dropout time again.

I can see Ketron's need to add extensions by an additional note or two, but whole basic chords (sorry if anyone thinks a diminished or augmented chord is not 'basic' ) being completely missing is, IMO, simply unacceptable. It's of GREAT significance that Ketron do not provide (as yet) any soloed guitar track demos that extends beyond maj/min/7th. So, as potential buyers, we are denied opportunity to decide if this feature works acceptably or not. For my part, if it did, I would have expected them to showcase it. It simply seems too much of a 'kluge'.

Mike... I won't respond too much to the Roland baiting. On another Audya thread I've already brought up the G70's 'unfinished' launch myself before your post appeared. Suffice it to say, the G70's unfinished nature did not involve basic operation, it worked impressively enough at launch for it to persuade me to drop my long-loved G1000, and whatever has been added has come as an enhancement to an already good product, not a necessary addition just to get basic functionality. To you, it was a '3'. To me, it's still a '7.8' Or, if you prefer, maybe a '3' on the Richter Scale won't raise your hairs, but on the Fujita Scale it will definitely wake you up! But that is simply our individual opinions, not quite the fact you present it as!

As to USB2, what possible use is that to an arranger without a sampler? We've discussed this before, but offline storage isn't quite the pressing need, in my book. As it is with the Audya, to be fair. As long as it loads from it's HD fast enough for live use, loading up at home isn't quite the problem. Don't forget, although it may lack USB2, it's internal data bus is ATA, EIDE or SATA, like most computers (few use USB2 internally). And from reports unconfirmed, it manages at least 1MB/sec data transfer to the RAM, completely outpacing several keyboards with USB2 interfaces. The bottleneck is STILL the data pipe, and not the interface, IMO. Yes, it's a definite inconvenience working at home, but not the impediment to live play that having whole chord types disappear (to be replaced by regular MIDI, non-Mega guitar parts) could be...

And what about the glacial save on the Yamaha's sampler? It's a huge improvement over THAT, at least That doesn't achieve even floppy disk speeds Users report HOURS for saves of edits on large files.

I simply find myself being able to cut the Audya slack in certain areas, but once again, I have to ask... are we not musicians first and foremost? I can take almost any sort of OS weirdness or offline inconvenience, but anything that detracts from it's MUSICAL effectiveness gets a 'fail' grade, I'm sorry to say...
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#255679 - 02/04/09 05:35 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:

So your going to spend $5000.00 just for a vocalizer?.....I use a digitech with my S900 sounds great $150.00



No, I like what I see so far and I will check it out in brooklyn but my limit is 3500-4000 tops. Thats it. If I can't get for that price I'll wait for second hand or move on to something else, no rush.
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#255680 - 02/04/09 05:45 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
If you like that Audya harmonizer, you are going to LOVE the PA2Xpro's, or the G70/E80's...

And you will have a guitar track that won't change sounds on you as you play different chords

To be fair, you have to at least compare to those in similar price ranges (although the T2/3 isn't reported to be any of an improvement over the S900).
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#255681 - 02/04/09 05:51 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
When Ted fro CMC was here at my store two weeks ago, he said that AJ's was not a prototype but rather a finished model he brought back with him from his trip last month to Italy. The one Ted has in his office is a prototype.

------------------
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Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com
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Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
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#255682 - 02/04/09 06:06 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Well, that may clear up the Piano Mode problem, George, but you can't possibly be telling us that the 'missing chords' issue is simply down to a beta unit?

It seems like FAR too much effort has been expended making whole MIDI parts to handle those pesky dim, aug and sus4 chords to be simply a 'beta' workaround...
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#255683 - 02/04/09 06:07 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by George Kaye:
When Ted fro CMC was here at my store two weeks ago, he said that AJ's was not a prototype but rather a finished model he brought back with him from his trip last month to Italy. The one Ted has in his office is a prototype.



Thanks, Maybe nedim is demoing the unit in CMC shop than? He didn't go into details where he was and which unit he had his hands on.
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#255684 - 02/04/09 07:40 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
As i said and will repeat my self, i Demoed AJs unit and its not a final unit,
Prototype or not. My words of Audya not being sold yes are not mine but Ketrons.
I believe them, that doesnt necesarilly mean they are not lying, i dont know
what their agenda is but certainly thats what they say.
When i Demoed the unit, it missing HELL of everything, even the most basic things,
there is not even FX on it and you gonna tell me its the final unit?
And no, there aint no different between AJs unit or KetronUSAs unit, it is the same one unit.
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#255685 - 02/04/09 07:43 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
And you see, Diki already acuses Audya of not having a sampler,
at least i took it so when he says what use is USB 2.0 if the synth has no sampler.
Heloooooooooooooooo wake up people and dont be kids, this is sad and funny.
When you buy or test the Audya like i did then talk, dont talk now based
of what I or someone else said but bring your own judgement when you
touch it and play it. Dont talk BS about unfinished product.
I dont care about Ketron, i will never change my PA800 for any Ketron
but lets be real and honest, we blabering like kids in here but
actually none of us has a clue of what we talking about.
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#255686 - 02/04/09 09:12 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
Nedim,

Let me make myself unpopular and get it over with. I do not know whether most of these critisizers reside in America or not, but if so I'm starting to loose a lot of respect for those. Always critisizing, always knowing better, yet never achieving anything out of the ordinary themselves. Need I go on?

As for the Audya, it is a fantastic breakthrough and I would beg Ketron not to be offended by all these extremely rude and totally uncalled for accusations. Please continue with your development. You will have many happy customers, just like you've always had. You're setting a pace for others to follow and after the release of the Audya, arrangers will never be the same as we came to know it.

Thank you for your dedication in this regard an please take as long as required to finish this outstanding product to your own liking and not by what's being dictated to you.

When it's ready, I'll make a plan for financing one of my own. Yamaha is huge, yet I never needed them in the four years that I've had my PSR3K - it makes no difference to me whether Ketron is huge or small, I know that I'll not need any other backup after purching my Audya bar the occasional OS updates. So big deal about the size of the company I'm buyin it from! And if the company is run by two old guys only, my hat off to them for what they've achieved - even the more outstanding. In South Africa we cannot buy something, use it for a week or two and then simply return it for a refund if not happy so we are not spoiled rotten in this regard.

That song that says: Oh Lord, it's so hard to be humble - it really makes me think.

Nuff said,

Henni
South Africa

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).]
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#255687 - 02/04/09 09:58 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Diki said: “Let's take this in order... To the genesys;
The Audya has never bee accused of not RECOGNIZING any chord thrown at it. What it DOES have a problem with is actually PLAYING them in audio loop form. mrdave reports maj min and a few 7ths. And that is THAT. Play a dim or an aug, and the loop stops cold, a MIDI part plays until you change back to a maj or min again. No sus's, no aug's. Dropout time again.
I can see Ketron's need to add extensions by an additional note or two, but whole basic chords (sorry if anyone thinks a diminished or augmented chord is not 'basic' ) being completely missing is, IMO, simply unacceptable. It's of GREAT significance that Ketron do not provide (as yet) any soloed guitar track demos that extends beyond maj/min/7th. So, as potential buyers, we are denied opportunity to decide if this feature works acceptably or not. For my part, if it did, I would have expected them to showcase it. It simply seems too much of a 'kluge'.”


Again one must understand that the basic operations on the Audya I would think is still there. That is a midi style can play most chords and extensions. Hopefully with respect to midi style nothing was subtracted from what they had in their previous TOTL arrangers.

Having one – three audio tracks in a style is an additional feature and is not a basic operational feature of the arranger.
If there were styles with just audio tracks, then not recognizing all chord types and not recognizing extensions would be a basic non feature.
Having SA voices on the T2 is an additional feature and SA 2 was not available for all sounds. Same deal with audio style tracks on the Audya.


It is interesting to note that because audio tracks on a style was an additional feature on the Audya, it seems as if Ketron may have taken the strategy that for the initial release they would use audio tracks for certain genres and that only the chords commonly used with those genres would they record audio types for.
I.E Rock major and minor. Some contemporary add 7ths and if other may want to use other chord types then midi would take over. Soloing the track would not tell you much it is how the style sounds as a total package. Now if when the whole style plays, and the exclusion of audio tracks for other chord types does not sound good (very subjective), then Ketron may need to rethink their implementation.


Remember an SA sax would not have the same SA as an SA guitar.
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#255688 - 02/04/09 11:49 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
Quote:
Originally posted by Henni:
Nedim,

Let me make myself unpopular and get it over with. I do not know whether most of these critisizers reside in America or not, but if so I'm starting to loose a lot of respect for those. Always critisizing, always knowing better, yet never achieving anything out of the ordinary themselves. Need I go on?

As for the Audya, it is a fantastic breakthrough and I would beg Ketron not to be offended by all these extremely rude and totally uncalled for accusations. Please continue with your development. You will have many happy customers, just like you've always had. You're setting a pace for others to follow and after the release of the Audya, arrangers will never be the same as we came to know it.

Thank you for your dedication in this regard an please take as long as required to finish this outstanding product to your own liking and not by what's being dictated to you.

When it's ready, I'll make a plan for financing one of my own. Yamaha is huge, yet I never needed them in the four years that I've had my PSR3K - it makes no difference to me whether Ketron is huge or small, I know that I'll not need any other backup after purching my Audya bar the occasional OS updates. So big deal about the size of the company I'm buyin it from! And if the company is run by two old guys only, my hat off to them for what they've achieved - even the more outstanding. In South Africa we cannot buy something, use it for a week or two and then simply return it for a refund if not happy so we are not spoiled rotten in this regard.

That song that says: Oh Lord, it's so hard to be humble - it really makes me think.

Nuff said,

Henni
South Africa

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).]



I must say this is a good and healthy approach. If Ketron really took the risk and tried to come up with something pretty innovative, we should praise them and appreciate the effort.

This is only one way for future development of arrangers. Tyros 3 SA2 it's another one. Maybe each manufacturer will come up with it's own system, or maybe after a while we'll have a new standard, that will be embraced by all of them. But we should aknowledge and appreciate Ketron, just as much as Yamaha in this sense.

And once again, by when will we have a "baby" audya?
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#255689 - 02/05/09 02:44 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by adimatis:

And once again, by when will we have a "baby" audya?


its already here SD5

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#255690 - 02/05/09 04:07 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
come one... not soooo baby!
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#255691 - 02/05/09 04:36 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
If i was to compare the Audya and SD5 i would
probably end up with SD5 being a toy.
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#255692 - 02/05/09 04:42 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
If i was to compare the Audya and SD5 i would
probably end up with SD5 being a toy.


Yes...but it would be a "finished" toy.
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#255693 - 02/05/09 05:09 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Still a useless toy!
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#255694 - 02/05/09 05:13 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
Still a useless toy!


I'm sure the owners of SD5 do not share your opinion.
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#255695 - 02/05/09 05:31 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
twiceduo Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Denmark
Nedim

How long do you think we are away from a release date.

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#255696 - 02/05/09 06:06 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Its been released in Italy and Portugal. Released in what state of completion is unknown. At least to us. But i'd guess as did Nedim about 50% complete

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#255697 - 02/05/09 06:50 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Ok, first of all i am an SD5 owner and another 5 Ketron machines, i didnt mean literary a toy
but you know what i mean, come on, you cant compare Audya and SD5, it is 2 worlds.
As for release date i dont know, Lee can say all he wants but for another 2 months i dont
think we will be seing a ready Audya...just my
opinion...i dont know about the ones that bought it already...maybe special order...LOL...
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#255698 - 02/05/09 07:00 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Nedim.., you can call the SD5 a toy compared to the Audya but it sure as hell ain't priced as a freakin toy! The SD5 could be what the S900 is to the Tyros line..., yet look at how much the SD5 costs (not to mention the freakin size of that keyboard alone).

Ketron does some good stuff...., I'll give them that. Problem is Ketron IMO is on the path to WERSI pricing status. With the way the market is today (even with KEYBOARD companies going out of business) you'd think Ketron would take that into consideration. Anytime a keyboards price is literally HALF that of an economy vechicle SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY F&%^%ING WRONG!

I know there are many supporters out there for Ketron and I have no problem with that..., but Diki CALLED THEM on a few issues. Turns out he was also right yet the guy gets shat on just for asking the questions. Another member gets shat on for complaining about OUTDATED usb specs and his complaints were more than justified.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Ketron shipped out unfinished units across the waters. Hell..., everyone's doing that now just to meet a deadline and the consumer becomes the beta tester....

Plus Ketron (although they make some nice stuff) don't have the status of Yamaha, Korg, or Roland. We've seen the fall of two keyboard companies now due to the current economy (and other internal problems these companies had)..., so why would a keyboard company such as Ketron produce such expensive ass equipment???? If you're a smaller keyboard company and your price line is OUT OF REACH for the typical buyer then you'd damn well better be using the BEST and MOST CURRENT hardware on your product too--which Ketron ISN'T doing. Look how long it took just to get a half decent color display on a Ketron!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-05-2009).]
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#255699 - 02/05/09 07:56 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
So squeak what would you price the Audya or SD5 at ?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-05-2009).]

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#255700 - 02/05/09 08:19 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
The Audya shouldn't make the price of a Tyros 3 or a top Korg PA look like TOTL arranger keyboards ANYONE can afford. It should be priced according to it's competition.

The SD5 sells for what $2,300+ This is a 61 key arranger that's 46 inches long, weighs nearly 35 lbs, uses old ass floppy disks for (song recording--come on even Yamaha stopped doing that with the PSR-2000), over $2,000 and the harmonizer is OPTIONAL.., uses a display that's not even comparable to the PSR-S700.., or even the PSR-3000. Ketron for some reason must have had a major dislike for data dials too which is clearly seen in their model line.., although Ketrons styles are nice.., you get what.., 128 preset styles on the SD5 and extra style expansion is OPTIONAL for a measly 2mbs. Plus isn't the poly only 64 notes???? In this price range 64 note poly is disgraceful.., geez even the PSR-3000 had 128 note poly. I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much money for this keyboard considering how outdated it's hardware is.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-05-2009).]
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#255701 - 02/05/09 09:40 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:


As to USB2, what possible use is that to an arranger without a sampler?


Oh, and give the G-80 GTX a Sampler Roland! A REAL Sampler too, not a T3 sample "player". >> It's up to Roland whether they will use internal hardware that compliments and enhances the USB 2.0 interface transfer speed.

I think they did a pretty good job on the Fantom G series. I would also like to think they will give the G-80 GTX a similar (or better??) throughput in my opinion. We'll see..

BTW, the G-80 GTX is not the real name of course. Or is it? Hmm... we'll see.

All the best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 02-05-2009).]
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#255702 - 02/05/09 11:12 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
Plus isn't the poly only 64 notes???? In this price range 64 note poly is disgraceful..,

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-05-2009).]



Poly is 128 notes on the Sd5.
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#255703 - 02/05/09 12:18 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
At least it's 128.... On one site I saw today it was listed as 64 note poly.... This was a site selling the thing too.., and they got the poly info wrong.
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#255704 - 02/05/09 01:19 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
At least Mike got my reference correctly. Nedim. He was talking about the G70 and USB1. My reply was about the lack of need for USB2 on an arranger that has no sampler. Sorry if you read that wrong and went ballistic, but you MIGHT have remembered me asking about the speed of Akai sample load to the Audya's sampler, and also bemoaning the paltry 64MB (half of my ten year old K2500) RAM limit.

You REALLY need to use your memory a bit more before you start making wild accusations. This whole Audya thiong has got spread over two or three different threads. Read them ALL before you make quick ASSumptions, especially with perhaps not a perfect command of English....

To the genesys... Ketron, from Day 1 of the Audya's announcement (it may be hard to remember that far back ) have touted the audio loop feature as it's PRIMARY advantage. In fact, at first it WAS supposed to do several parts in audio at the same time. Reality must have crashed in on their dream, but there is NO WAY, no matter how hard you spin it, that the audio loops feature was ever supposed to be just an add-on to a standard arranger.

Of course, NOW, that appears to be how it has turned out, but if you look back at what Ketron announced, and STILL continue to promote as 'revolutionary'. In fact, here's their current promo blurb....
---------------------------------------------------------------

AUDYA
Advanced Music Station

The new KETRON state-of-the-art AUDYA represents the next generation of contemporary Entertainment keyboards, featuring a top-quality sound engine, a powerful Audio Multiplayer, revolutionary and unique solutions in the Auto Accompaniment industry, and the capability to interact with the outside world through multiple multimedia capability.
KETRON has once more raised the Arranger keyboard bar up to a long awaited hi-professional level, offering musicians the total freedom to play and control Audio files within the Arranger and Midifiles.

* * *
Intelligent Audio Drums

KETRON AUDYA introduces a very innovative concept used with Styles and Midi files : REAL AUDIO DRUMS synchronized under Midi sync tempo domain. Until now, robotic and redundant Midi Drums were the only ways to reproduce drum patterns. AUDYA delivers to you a Live Drummer performance which brings a new drive into the Automatic accompaniment section. Out with the old annoying Midi patterns – in with the new exhaustive Real Audio Drums at your fingertips!!
The Audio Drum tracks are used to play extra long Stereo takes with real Intros, Fills and Endings, all working on perfect sync with the conventional Midi resources and chording.
Figure this out – you can now cover all your background styles such as Pop, Rock, Ballad, Swing, Traditional, Latin with an unprecedent music taste of ‘live musicians’ and not pre-programmed sequence. Real drummers and percussionists did a great job for you ... and they’re still at your convenience, following your Tempo changes and improvisations. No longer will you be asked “which Drum Set did you use for this track”, but “which musician recorded this track for you?” ... Unbelievable!!

Real Audio Arranger

In addition to the Audio Drums, a huge variety of Real Live Guitars and Bass backgrounds have been provided within AUDYA. Folk, Classic, Electric and even Flamenco patterns, all performed by respecting the proper feel of each different type of music, and all perfectly synchronized with Drums and Bass!! With the Unplugged styles, you can enjoy the individual Guitar performances, a perfect tool for singing, performance and composition. The sensation of playing with a Real Band backing was never this true and exciting before. Just play any chord and listen!!
---------------------------------------------------------------

This does NOT make it sound like the audio loops are an afterthought, and I am afraid I had to laugh at the highlighted (my highlights) section. It should read "Just play a maj or a min chord, and listen! (don't play a dim or aug or sus, though...)!"
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#255705 - 02/05/09 02:03 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
The Audya shouldn't make the price of a Tyros 3 or a top Korg PA look like TOTL arranger keyboards ANYONE can afford. It should be priced according to it's competition.

The SD5 sells for what $2,300+ This is a 61 key arranger that's 46 inches long, weighs nearly 35 lbs, uses old ass floppy disks for (song recording--come on even Yamaha stopped doing that with the PSR-2000), over $2,000 and the harmonizer is OPTIONAL.., uses a display that's not even comparable to the PSR-S700.., or even the PSR-3000. Ketron for some reason must have had a major dislike for data dials too which is clearly seen in their model line.., although Ketrons styles are nice.., you get what.., 128 preset styles on the SD5 and extra style expansion is OPTIONAL for a measly 2mbs. Plus isn't the poly only 64 notes???? In this price range 64 note poly is disgraceful.., geez even the PSR-3000 had 128 note poly. I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much money for this keyboard considering how outdated it's hardware is.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-05-2009).]


Squeak I wish you would say what you really mean !!

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#255706 - 02/05/09 02:40 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
I have to agree with Squeak about the pricing. I have always wondered why Ketron pricing was so high, but it never stopped me from buying one. I can't sell ketron short though, there sounds are great, if not top notch. I love my s900 but I miss those ketron drums, bass and sounds.

The pattern expan. helps a lot but if you have a HD you can also load styles from the HD to the user banks. The harmonizer is optional but after trying to tweak & tweak my harmonizer on the s900 to no aval, I'll gladly pay for a ketron harmonizer.

I know that everyone tastes are different, but when you have a ketron sd5 pumping through a sound system, it sounds amazing.
I'm thinking of a SD3 with my S900 in the future.
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#255707 - 02/06/09 12:10 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
On the pricing i agree with everyone, it just doesnt cut it.
An SD5 is more then a PA800 and it doesnt even deliver half of the PA800...
its very funny.
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#255708 - 02/06/09 07:34 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
I sure that the Pa800 has more features than the SD5 but for me, I find that the SD5 sounds and styles are much better than Korg. But I think Korg is a great board also.
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#255709 - 02/06/09 08:22 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Ketron of course is wayyy punchier on a PA system then any Korg and comes out better
but Korg is up with time, Ketron system is still designed by Hitlers scientists.
Thats what i meant:
Sampling, GTR Mode, Voice Editing, FX,
Event Editor...everything lacks on Ketron.
Please dont tell me you can edit voice and
there is FX on Ketron...
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#255710 - 02/06/09 10:25 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Nedim is right about the areas he mentioned where Ketron is lacking. Ketron makes some nice sounding gear, but you're paying a hell of a lot of money for sounds and styles because in many other areas the boards don't match the competition, but they cost more.

Let's be realistic here. How much longer can Ketron go on with such high prices? We've seen a couple makers fall (one more recently). The economy is to shit right now. How many times have we seen Wersi's bottom fall out over the years???

It would be one thing if Ketron was making these units that not only sound great, but at least matched or beat the competition in the other areas where they're clearly lacking. Sure they got these new audio type styles (which clearly haven't been all they've been hyped upped to be as we've seen already here by some who have played it)..., but take away the sounds/styles and look at FEATURES. What do you see in practical features on the Ketron that makes it better than a Tyros 3 or a high end Korg PA model? You take away Ketrons styles and sounds and really start to compare the guts and well....., you get where I'm going with this.
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#255711 - 02/06/09 12:16 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
unfortunately i fear you are right Squeak. The fact that it took Ketron almost 3 years to bring out the Audya after it had been announced and (if Nedim is correct it still is not complete) is a concern about future updates and support for such an expensive purchase. But dont get me wrong, i wish Ketron much success with this instrument. This is a brand new move forward in arranger keyboards .

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#255712 - 02/06/09 12:41 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Yes Spalding, is not complete, i didnt wanna say anything earlier but since KetronUsa
already said it i can say it now too, AUDYA
wont be available till at least March-April
as a full completed synth, maybe not even released, thats why i kept going back and forth with Lee.
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#255713 - 02/06/09 01:32 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
AUDYA
wont be available till at least March-April
as a full completed synth,



or way beyond...

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#255714 - 02/06/09 01:58 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
...... maybe not even released,...


Well, I did joke about April 1st in some posts, but never said any year.
If still 40-50% developement to go, we might add 2-3 years, if ever.
Financial crisis may reach Ketron as well..... but I really hope not.

GJ

GJ
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GJ
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but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#255715 - 02/06/09 02:15 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I talked to Ted on the phone today. He said it is about 90% now, but he won't sell any until it's done.
DonM
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#255716 - 02/06/09 02:17 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Ketron could sell a crap load of their gear if they just lowered the price because once you strip away the sounds and styles.., there's really nothing that sets them apart from any of the others.., especially considering things that come standard on the others are OPTIONS on the Ketron.

Ketron's got some great sounding keyboards for sure..., but like I said before.., you're paying a HUGE price just for those sounds and styles because Ketron still lacks in many areas where the others clearly are ahead.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#255717 - 02/06/09 02:23 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
I talked to Ted on the phone today. He said it is about 90% now, but he won't sell any until it's done.
DonM


Don Ketron shouldn't of even leaked it to the public until it was 100%....I think all this Pre-negative publicity is hurting the Audya.

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#255718 - 02/06/09 02:25 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
I think the biggest bruise the Audya will take would be if these new audio styles don't live up to the hype... They've clearly used this a huge selling point.
_________________________
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#255719 - 02/06/09 02:26 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
Ketron could sell a crap load of their gear if they just lowered the price because once you strip away the sounds and styles.., there's really nothing that sets them apart from any of the others.., especially considering things that come standard on the others are OPTIONS on the Ketron.

Ketron's got some great sounding keyboards for sure..., but like I said before.., you're paying a HUGE price just for those sounds and styles because Ketron still lacks in many areas where the others clearly are ahead.
That might be the case with the past ketrons, but audya you also get the Midjay which is a big plus.

But also why are people buying arrangers? for the styles and sounds, right? what other features are you looking for in a arranger that ketron does not offer?
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Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#255720 - 02/06/09 02:34 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
I think the biggest bruise the Audya will take would be if these new audio styles don't live up to the hype... They've clearly used this a huge selling point.



Lets face it...It will have to top the Tyros 3 to be a success that a Tall order in the arranger KB world.

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#255721 - 02/06/09 02:34 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
One thing I'm not expecting is any significant improvement to the audio loops. As I've said, there is FAR too much well integrated, carefully thought out work with using carefully crafted MIDI guitar patterns to replace chords like sus, dim and aug, and all the work on adding extensions to it for it to be ANY kind of 'beta' stopgap.

This has the hallmark of a completed feature. Sadly.

Other issues like the Piano mode not working, and no doubt a plethora of other unreported (because no-one but Ketron employees have played it much yet) bugs and other issues are what they are working feverishly to finish, I would imagine.
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#255722 - 02/06/09 02:49 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
fc_xander Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 23
Loc: Portugal
Hi.

The AUDYA is on the market in almost all the south-european countrys from 15 January.

In Portugal we receive until now almost 20 Keyboards and are all sell.

The AUDYA is not 50% or 60% finished.
It is almost 100% complete , and i said ALMOST , because they dont delivery yet the final Instrution Manual , and the Software to produce the Audio Styles.
Also , in my opinion , I think they can put a "Pattern Edit" funtion directly in the Keyboard.
In Portugal not everyone had a computer , and with that small function they can edit and correct the midi parts of the style.

The Audya is Open Architectury and they can develop new functions , new sounds or what they want.
I Hope they continue developing new ideas for this plattform , lots of new thing can be integrated in the audya.

I explore the OS and i see that everything can be edited , we can "personalize" the Keyboarb for the kneeds of the musician.
All the soundbank are RW , all the audio parts can be edited , all the audio guitars can be edited....
We had no limits to work here.....

As the first User said , the arranger part of the audio Styles are fantastic.
The right hand sounds are very very good , and yes , no comparation with the Japonese models , this is the best arranger keyboard of the moment.

Go test yourself and see.

And is EASY , EASY to work....

As you see in the few videos i produce and share with all in my blog , the Musicians came to see the keyboard and i film , no preparation.....
As you see , they dont ad no problem to start playing in the Audya , its so easy , that apears they already know were are everything...

Sorry about my bad english.
Best regards

FC www.ketronaudya.wordpress.com

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#255723 - 02/06/09 02:53 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Squeak, have you ever owned a Ketron?
They have always been ahead of the curve when they bring keyboards out. The old OS is different, but very effective, once you learn it.
The new OS on the Midjay is by far the easiest of any I've ever dealt with, and the registration system is the quickest and most simple also.
They were the first company to allow us to associate text files with styles, automatically or via registration, many years ago. Yamaha finally did it on the Tyros.
The vocal harmonizer has been top notch for many years (except on the Midjay!).
There is a choice of 6 or 13 button foot controllers available. SDs and Audya have two XLR mic inputs. Video out has long been included. Power supply is built in, NO WALL WART).
The ability to edit and e.q. each style part and each individual drum part is there, plus you can easily solo style parts.
There are SO many dedicated buttons and sliders for real-time control, eliminating many menus. There are many options for touch control of variation parts, fills and yes, Roland, Break/fills.
The human voices are something Yamaha has never got right, though Roland does well. Ketron does it very well.
However, the bottom line, as you said, are sounds and styles. Ever since the X1, I have not found it necessary to use third-party styles. Whatever I have needed has been available. All the older keyboard styles are compatible also.
As for the sound, I don't believe there is anyone who will question that, as far as authentic, believable voices, in particular the way they do the drums and bass lines.
I believe the Audya will incorporate more of the gadget nuances and effects that technology is now allowing, such as Yamaha has done with SA voices. Not important to me, as they seem to get in my way more than they help. But I'm old.
The 76-note SD1 and now the Audya are what many of the players here have been yearning for. They managed to do it and keep the weight down, yet still use a sturdy case and great keybed.
As far as those of you who are questioning the stability of the company, they seem to be rock solid, and have been for many, many years. While Ketron is not well known in the U.S. outside of our little group, it is a big name in other countries, where arrangers are far more popular. They sell loads of modules, used by accordion and guitar players around the world. I think nobody else makes arranger modules now, since Technics shut down.
Ketron has always issued many updates at no charge, even on units that were as much as 7 or 8 years old. They did a total overhaul of the SD1 some five years after it was introduced, at no charge.
Yes, the SDs are getting a little long in the tooth, and I suppose that's why the Audya is being produced. Unlike some companies, that make you pay for minor upgrades by issuing a "new" model every 18 months or so, they take their time and try to make something that is built to last us for a number of years without getting dated too quickly, or having the buttons push into the case, or have keys break or screens not work.
They have certainly taken their time on this one! I was ready to buy the demo one, but I can wait. . . . not forever though, I'm getting older each day.
DonM
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DonM

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#255724 - 02/06/09 03:02 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Don, I could not have said it better myself, I've owned many ketrons and never looked back, with the exception of SD5 which sold because of my accident, (I couldn't lift it for a couple of months). Ketron is 100% rock solid and will one of the arranger companies out there that will keep making arrangers for a long time, unlike some others that may drop there arranger line.

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 02-06-2009).]
_________________________
Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#255725 - 02/06/09 09:12 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by fc_xander:
Hi.

The AUDYA is on the market in almost all the south-european countrys from 15 January.

In Portugal we receive until now almost 20 Keyboards and are all sell.

The AUDYA is not 50% or 60% finished.
It is almost 100% complete , and i said ALMOST , because they dont delivery yet the final Instrution Manual , and the Software to produce the Audio Styles.
Also , in my opinion , I think they can put a "Pattern Edit" funtion directly in the Keyboard.
In Portugal not everyone had a computer , and with that small function they can edit and correct the midi parts of the style.

The Audya is Open Architectury and they can develop new functions , new sounds or what they want.
I Hope they continue developing new ideas for this plattform , lots of new thing can be integrated in the audya.

I explore the OS and i see that everything can be edited , we can "personalize" the Keyboarb for the kneeds of the musician.
All the soundbank are RW , all the audio parts can be edited , all the audio guitars can be edited....
We had no limits to work here.....

As the first User said , the arranger part of the audio Styles are fantastic.
The right hand sounds are very very good , and yes , no comparation with the Japonese models , this is the best arranger keyboard of the moment.

Go test yourself and see.

And is EASY , EASY to work....

As you see in the few videos i produce and share with all in my blog , the Musicians came to see the keyboard and i film , no preparation.....
As you see , they dont ad no problem to start playing in the Audya , its so easy , that apears they already know were are everything...

Sorry about my bad english.
Best regards

FC www.ketronaudya.wordpress.com


So what is it? 100% finished or needs much improvement ?.........it's can't be both!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-06-2009).]

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#255726 - 02/06/09 10:08 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
why couldn't?
g70 was a finished product, still needed alot of improvement, up to v3.
pa800 is on v2.xx
and so on.

the only arranger finished and with no need for improvements is tyros. ok, s900 too.
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Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#255727 - 02/06/09 10:37 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Straightforward question, FC...

Do these 'finished', shipping units play more than maj, min and a few 7ths in the guitar audio loops, or is that IT...?

Adding in the remainder of the needed 'basic' chords (chords that cannot be made by modifying an already recorded maj, min or 7th) seems a bit more than 'minor' addition to a 'almost 100% finished' product...
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#255728 - 02/06/09 10:54 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
You know, any more of this 'spin doctoring', and I'm going to get dizzy...

You know, there is one issue, and one issue alone that interests most of us, because the Audya, without it, is merely just another arranger, in fact, one with considerably LESS features than T3, PA2Xpro, heck, even my G70!

If it STOPS PLAYING in the loop section when faced with a more complex chord than maj and min derivatives, and switches to an altogether different system altogether, what is the value of that?

It's kind of like, it's an Audya for maj and min, and it's an SD-1 for dim's sus's and aug's... Not exactly the great leap forward we were promised... More a 'bunny hop'

Korg's and Yamaha's already have FAR more sophisticated Guitar Modes for those pesky chords, and extremely realistic guitar voicing with none of the 'dropout' problems. Plus SA2 voices, large RAM samplers, long length patterns (in Korg's case), just about anything that the Audya has.

This ONE feature is the difference, gentlemen. And, unless a miracle occurs (I'm not holding my breath, are you? ), it just plain doesn't work. Unless you eschew dim's, aug's, sus's, and don't expect correct guitar voicing on all the extensions (which Korg, Yamaha and even Roland's Guitar modes DO).

It's going to sound great. So does a T3, so does a PA2Xpro (which is just as capable of doing audio drum loops if you bother to do it yourself). But the thing it claimed was going to revolutionize the industry has fallen short of the finish line...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255729 - 02/07/09 02:32 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Diki, you have to understand, there is not such a Finished model yet.
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#255730 - 02/07/09 02:54 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
This is why Ketron needs to come out and explain what the Audya is and is not.
You have pundits on this forum speculating about what they think the product should be.
The audio tracks in a style that can play chords if you really try and understand the limited information that Ketron put out was to complement the midi style not replace the style.
Now the real test is not whether the audio style track that plays chords plays all the chords, but how does the style sound as a whole when the audio track does not play when you play certain chords.
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#255731 - 02/07/09 04:14 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
Precisely ! But my reservation is that if the Audya substitutes midi notes for the more complaex chord extenstions how is it any different to any other arranger ? Should people be paying through the nose for real audio loops purely for simple chords ? And if you cant here any difference when the substitute midi notes /tracks kick in then what was the point of recording real audio loops in the first place.....

Ketron need to be telling us about now what else the Audya does that sets it apart from the competition because this one distinction is not enough (in my opinion) to tempt me to buy an Audya.

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-07-2009).]

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#255732 - 02/07/09 04:29 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by spalding:
Should people be paying through the nose for real audio loops purely for simple chords ? And if you cant here any difference when the substitute midi notes /tracks kick in then what was the point of recording real audio loops in the first place.....



Two VERY good points, Spalding....well said!

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#255733 - 02/07/09 06:52 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
To get back on the Topic Title.....after today I would say that reading all the "UNKNOWN" baloney about Audya so far I would just wait, allow this unit to come to market, after it gets in players hands & people that have spent approx $5000.00 for it, I am very sure that they will be posting all the Pro's & Cons about Audya in a Very timely manner....they either will be VERY Happy or VERY Angry for sure. It's just a matter of time because the proof is in the pudding as always!. Just don't be a guinea pig

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-07-2009).]

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#255734 - 02/07/09 10:23 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Ketron does not have to "come out"..and let all be known..

The new board is not released here in the USA...and that is a fact...The distributor has said it will be 100 percent complete before he distributes the board...

As for the "hype"..that was created by interested people that have nagged AJ for premature answers, and for a chosen few that have seen the prototype unit...

Ketron is not pulling a Yamaha...talk about hyping a new board..

As for all this nonsense and critisizing of Ketron...more than 95 percent of the complainers here will not and never even considered buying this new board...

As far as I can tell Don Mason is the lone candidate to date that will get one..

The rest of you guys need another topic to shoot the bull over..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#255735 - 02/07/09 10:46 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
The new board is not released here in the USA...and that is a fact...The distributor has said it will be 100 percent complete before he distributes the board...



Please explain why then if it isn't completed 100% yet that it is being sold in Europe already "NOT FINISHED".......shouldn't it be complete for all markets first before any release?
Did Ketron think anyone wouldn't ask these simple questions about how it works....?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-07-2009).]

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#255736 - 02/07/09 11:21 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Ketron is not pulling a Yamaha...


That's for sure...Yamaha releases finished products to the public, not prototypes.

So does Roland and Korg.

What difference does it make if we are going to buy or not...we all share a common interest in arrangers, and most of are very curious about something with allegedly groundbreaking technology.

I think the release of information about the Audya has been very poorly handled.

Whether it lives up to the hype will only become clear when Don M or another pro player has a completed and fully functioning instrument to evaluate.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#255737 - 02/07/09 11:22 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
The prototype in AJ's hands was not complete..and since that is the only unit in the USA...thus the USA has no completed models.....simple arithmetic..
_________________________
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#255738 - 02/07/09 11:30 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Would someone tell me what the rush is in releasing the Audya half cocked.....what are they thinking?

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#255739 - 02/07/09 11:37 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
The prototype in AJ's hands was not complete..and since that is the only unit in the USA...thus the USA has no completed models.....simple arithmetic..


I didn't see in my post where I said USA.

The units released elsewhere were not finished...thus they were prototypes, not production models.

Production models, in case you weren't aware, are fully functioning and finished instruments.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#255740 - 02/07/09 12:39 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Jerry T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
Donny,
Maybe in Europe they don't need all the features we're waiting for. And, with the euro gaining in value, maybe price isn't as big an issue - For sure they can buy it for about 25% less than we can with the U.S.dollar. Even more savings if you factor in the custom's fees, transportation costs and various other fees and expenses associated with importing an item to the U.S.
As for me, I'm going to wait ---------- for the module version - or did I mention that before ... ?
Ciao,
Jerry

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#255741 - 02/07/09 01:26 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Waiting until someone, or several 'someone's' has already bought the unit before we question the difference between hype and reality seems like shutting the stable door AFTER the horse has bolted...

When Ketron's own factory demos display the problem front and center, when reports from players of units released explain the problem, when Ketron themselves, or their distributors do NOT come out and in plain, uncouched language say that there WILL be new audio loops on the missing chords, when considerable time and effort has already been expended in their R&D division to mitigate the missing chord issue (that IS the most telling, IMO), how does ANYONE convince themselves that this issue is EVER going to be solved?

Spalding's point is excellent... If you can't tell the difference, why bother, and if you can, it plain don't work. Period.

All this 'wait and see' bull is just spin. Why should ANYONE pay good money to 'wait and see'? Few are ever going to be able to play one before purchase. The warning signs are already public record. It is up to Ketron to SHOW this improvement before anyone should be so carried away as to buy a 'beta' unit. I don't care if this is the US or anywhere else... Why should European customers be subjected to 'incomplete' features when there is no proof whatsoever that they CAN complete them. You would think that, after three friggin' years, if they COULD, they WOULD HAVE...

They can't... It's as simple as that. There isn't one iota of evidence to prove otherwise, and a boatload of very telling evidence that they can't get it to work. They are already selling them in Europe. Shipping them.

I rest my case...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255742 - 02/07/09 03:25 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
You act like Ketron is a new company that came out of the woodworks yesterday. They have been around for almost 30 years. If you read Donm post, you see that ketron has nothing to prove, they've done already. Most keyboards companies always release in europe first before any other country. Also do you know for certain that Roland or Korg hasn't release beta versions of their keyboard in the past?

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 02-07-2009).]
_________________________
Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#255743 - 02/07/09 03:42 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
mc... audio loops in an arranger (as opposed to drum loops, that it doesn't matter what chord gets played) is an entirely new feature that NO-ONE has done successfully in an arranger yet. Or a computer, for that matter.

Ketron DEFINITELY have to 'prove' that this feature can work. I'm not one of those saying Ketron is just out of the woodwork. But this has it's downside. Unlike Dom and the MS, they DO have years of surely being able to gauge that if a feature is hyped (for years) as 'revolutionary' and fails to live up to that hype, there is going to be quite a backlash...

Now, do me a favor. Take your own advice. Wait until YOU have played an Audya before you leap to it's defense... Play some Latin, play some jazz, heck, play a Beatles tune..! Feed it something other than just kindergarten chords, and THEN tell us it is working fine... You are assuming as much as the rest of us, with MUCH less evidence

I HAVE heard it do the simplest of chords. And read from someone that HAS played more complex (if you consider a dim complex... I don't). He has described what happens, and it ain't good.

Have you heard it do the complex ones? Why not wait until you can refute what we are inferring (quite reasonably, IMO), before you make assumptions. We are not assuming anything. This is what we have been told it does, and heard Ketron demonstrators avoid those chords like the plague.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255744 - 02/07/09 03:57 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
twiceduo Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Denmark
Dikki "Feed it something other than just kindergarten chords"

That was not nice.

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#255745 - 02/07/09 05:11 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Maj and min (and a few 7ths) as the ONLY chords not replaced by MIDI...

That IS kindergarten, as far as I'm concerned. 'Not nice'?

'Not nice' is a feature that only CAN play these chords. I've played almost every kind of music there is. Pop, R&B, jazz, alternative, schlager, polka, ska, reggae, rock, latin, you name it, at one time I've played it. I can't remember ANY of those musics not needing more than maj and min chords.

Can you?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255746 - 02/07/09 08:51 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Diki: “audio loops in an arranger (as opposed to drum loops, that it doesn't matter what chord gets played)”

Here is the misunderstanding. I don’t believe that Ketron ever promised this. So what persons report as a problem is really not. You know like when a customer complains to a manufacturer that there is a bug and the manufacturer says it is not a bug but it is that the device is not supposed to work the way some people think it is supposed to work.

I think this is the problem we have here. You have some persons redesigning the function of the Audio tracks in a midi style of the Audya. It appears to me that the function of the audio track is to enhance the style not replace the style.

And it is interesting to note that 95% of the people who are trying to redesign and redefine the Audya are ones who would probably not get one hence the term pundits.


Regarding a “complete” product even that concept is changing. It is not like in the old days when a manufacturer releases a keyboard and that is it until the next model AKA Yamaha. Now you have manufacturers creating a good hardware product and a functioning OS with room to add, change and enhance features as time goes on. So I think the term “complete” is irrelevant with respect to the Audya.
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TTG

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#255747 - 02/07/09 09:32 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Jerry
we may have half a hope.

No other company has bothered to listen.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry T:

As for me, I'm going to wait ---------- for the module version - or did I mention that before ... ?
Ciao,
Jerry




------------------
best wishes
Rikki

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/PA800_StyleMaking/
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#255748 - 02/08/09 03:52 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Not that they would never get it, it is probably the ones that would
never phisically see the synth.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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#255749 - 02/08/09 10:14 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
I'm sorry, genesys, perhaps you haven't followed the Ketron hype since the Audya was announced. Perhaps a search for "audya' here will refresh your memory.

And I still don't understand how you cannot see the basic ridiculousness of a feature that only works on some chords, and not on others... You ever hear of anything like that before?

If it is so unimportant a feature, why do Ketron tout it so grandly (I posted their promo blurb.... sound like an afterthought to you?).
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255750 - 02/08/09 11:37 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry T:
Donny,
Maybe in Europe they don't need all the features we're waiting for. And, with the euro gaining in value, maybe price isn't as big an issue - For sure they can buy it for about 25% less than we can with the U.S.dollar. Even more savings if you factor in the custom's fees, transportation costs and various other fees and expenses associated with importing an item to the U.S.
As for me, I'm going to wait ---------- for the module version - or did I mention that before ... ?
Ciao,
Jerry


Jerry......I would assume Europeans & others world wide would also need to play more complex chords also ...so that means Audya chord recognition of more complex chords needs to be on par. Why cant they just get it right.....don't hype an unfinished product, release it when its done, & let the chips fall where they may?
As for the module if at all.....that's a stretch in time for sure. Ask yur self what is this audya going to do to make my music any better then it is now?

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#255751 - 02/08/09 09:56 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
We've got to get over this...

A diminished, sus4 or augmented chord is NOT, I repeat... NOT a 'complex' chord. It is a basic chord.

A min(maj7) chord is a complex chord. A 7#9 is a complex chord. A 7#9,13 is a complex chord.

If you play tunes without a dim, sus or aug in it SOMEWHERE, you are not playing the right chords!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255752 - 02/09/09 01:04 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
We've got to get over this...

....If you play tunes without a dim, sus or aug in it SOMEWHERE, you are not playing the right chords!



Your Honor, guilty as charged!!!

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#255753 - 02/09/09 05:56 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I just hope they don't price themselves out of the market. $5000? I don't think the market will bear that. I could buy three arrangers for that.

I look forward to it being out, I am a fan of the Ketron sound.
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#255754 - 02/09/09 07:12 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
gotta be below $4000 US

OR

MANY will look elsewhere...

that's for sure

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#255755 - 02/09/09 07:15 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
$3,999.99 would do the trick

and that's already about 70% more expensive than the SD5

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#255756 - 02/09/09 09:06 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Hmmmm, I don't understand why you people complain about, 5000$ or less!

To repeat myself from another tread:

When use the current rates of the € lately, the price in musicstores here are set to N.KR. 59.950,- = € 6754 !!
The "offer" price is N.Kr 50.900,- who is aprox € 5.733.

Tyros 3 are set to "full price" € 4.573 and sell for € 4.043, even as "low" as € 3.367, same as Korg PAX2 Pro
in musicstores here, so as I've said before, if the price stand like that we can buy both T3 and PAX2 pro for
the same amount of money as one Audya.!!!
Still wonder about if the Audya will sell a lot if this going to be the real price here, to be honest i doubt it.

Why the high level price? My guess is that they send each item separately fron Italy by Taxi, besides of that the
Norwegian custom and taxes are a bit high.

GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#255757 - 02/09/09 09:24 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
i think i'd rather buy both the T3 and PAX2 pro for same amount as one AUDYA

wow, them i'd have, G-70, T3, and PAX2, would be cool

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#255758 - 02/09/09 10:14 AM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Ketron's going to have to seriously consider the price of this new model if they want to sell it. Ketron has always been expensive..., to those who've asked about me owning one. The answer is NO, but I've been fortunate enough to find an owner here and there to try them out.

They DO IN FACT sound great..., always have too. Problem is Ketron has always priced themselves WELL above the competition. With the current economy you don't have to be a financial expert to know that Ketron or ANY smaller keyboard company would be hurting themselves by putting a price tag of $5,000 on a single arranger keyboard.

I've always felt Ketron has produced some great sounding gear.., but over the years looking at their past and current product line.... (not including the Audya at the moment), but strip the sounds/styles away and compare these boards to the competition and what's really left that justifies such a major difference in price????

In this current economy if you want to sell keyboards you better price them according to the competition. Place the price too high and even out of reach for the average TOTL arranger buyer then you've really got yourself a problem and will appear to look VERY VERY GREEDY.

Right now Ketron seems to be banking on the old saying "Build it and they will come". It's not that simple anymore. Build it and yes they WILL come.., but in today's current market you have to build it and PRICE IT RIGHT and they will certainly come.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#255759 - 02/09/09 12:00 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
I would pay $5,000.000 for the perfect TOTL arranger for me.

It does not exist. Probably never will.
My requirements list is large...and no one MFG. is there. I am not going to buy another 61 note instrument for one thing.

FOR ME TODAY, The Korg PA2XPRO is as close as there is. Repeat...'For me today'

Lot's of reason's...I like the sounds, styles and especially the features. If you ever get curious and want to really know the reasons I think the features are so superb...download the manual, spend an evening (it will take a while) ...read it cover - cover (including the new V2.0 seperate manual, AND the advanced edit manual).

IMHO, If I didn't care about all the programmabiliy and other PRO features and wanted the most availability of styles..I would just get a T3 like Kingfrog did.

I am open to the audya, but I want to see the features/programming tools for sound/styles/sequencer etc.

And the solo instrumental voices would have to be absolutely PRO quality. In other words the sounds would have to blow my socks off.

I will find out March 15th in Ft.Wayne at the demo. (I sure hope the complete manual is ready before that, so I can read it)

Lee
_________________________
Lee S.

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#255760 - 02/09/09 12:19 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
gittzit Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 24
Loc: Benton Ar
I dont play keyboard. I play guitar and use xd3 and midjay. But I was present at the shreveport jam,and I videotaped the whole shebang. Then I spent 90 hours looking at and listening to what I had recorded. Over and over as I edited the video. The audya to me has a distinct sound I havent heard from other arrangers. Don mason had a very good sound from his keyboard. Donny J was great from his keyboard. Everyone there had a great sound to my ears but, there is something about the audya that stands apart from the rest. I have over a hour and a half of demo of the audya and 4 hours of jammin by all the musicians. after 90 hours of viewing I think I have formed a pretty good openion, BUT, it all comes down to each individuals own ears, what he or she hears for themselve.

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#255761 - 02/09/09 12:27 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
gittzit Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 24
Loc: Benton Ar
More to the point is as a keyboard player you are more interested in the ease of going from piano to sax to trumpet to other sounds with some matter of ease and the chord reconization of the keyboard as you play. As a guitar player I dont have to woory about such things. I dont envey piano players for you have the hardest job of hearing what you want in a arranget and the ease whith which to use it. As on ketron guitat player once told me and I find it very true, if you ever get to the point where you are completely satasfied with what you play anh hear from yourself you are over the hill and basicall thrrough.

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#255762 - 02/09/09 12:46 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
[B] but strip the sounds/styles away and compare these boards to the competition and what's really left that justifies such a major difference in price????

B]


I don't understand your statement. What features are you looking for that ketron does not offer? What features should they have offered with the models they released during the model years?

Ketron will do well in europe and you have many repeat customers here in the states, in speaking with my music buddies, there waiting for the release to pick one up.
_________________________
Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#255763 - 02/09/09 12:54 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by gittzit:
As on ketron guitat player once told me and I find it very true, if you ever get to the point where you are completely satasfied with what you play anh hear from yourself you are over the hill and basicall thrrough.


Amen to that. I worry sometimes about how satisfied so many are with their arrangers on this forum!

Mind you, you've got to get a bit worried about Ketron themselves, given that corollary... Are they REALLY satisfied with the way the audio loop feature has worked out? Are they content to let it go out the door unable to play many basic chord types? Are they basically through?

I've heard a few of the Jam videos. a) I haven't found one yet where AJ plays more than basic maj min on guitar loop styles, and b) without those, it sounds like an SD-1 or SD-5. Ketron could have just come out with a boatload of new drum loop styles for the SD-1 and you'd have close to an Audya...

Ketron bet the farm on this audio loop technology, tried for three years or so to get it to work, found out it's not NEARLY as easy as they thought it would be, and gave up... But they still try to get us to buy this failed product.

If you could load the drum loops into an SD-1 or-5, most people would chose that much less expensive option. Somehow, I don't see Ketron doing that! Eventually, most MIDI styles from the latest arranger get backwards ported (at least to the ability of the legacy arranger). Forget that on Ketron's. So, when Ketron come out with an Audya2, don't expect any backwards compatibility. You'll have to BUY it to get access to the styles...

I've got E80 styles in my G70. There are T3 styles converted (as well as they can be) for T2. There are PA2X styles out there converted for PA1X. They all sound pretty damn good (other than the new features). But you'll never get an Audya style in an SD-1.

The more you look at audio loop styles, the more limitations they have...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255764 - 02/09/09 12:56 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I used to buy organs for up to $15,000. And that was with a big discount and when $$s were worth more.
It's all a matter of priority. I still wear leisure suits left over from the 70s. My wife makes soup out of tree bark and Bermuda grass. We only wear shoes in February.
The Edsel is still holding up. But I will have the best keyboard (for me) available.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#255765 - 02/09/09 01:07 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
But you'll never get an Audya style in an SD-1.

The more you look at audio loop styles, the more limitations they have...


Just like the SD5 styles won't work on the xd9, the XD9 styles won't work on the SD1 and SD1 won't work on the X1. It always been like that with ketron. The older keyboards can't play the newer keyboard styles because of the the grooves and if you convert them on stylework that grooves will always be left out. it just the way it goes.
_________________________
Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#255766 - 02/09/09 01:46 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
I used to buy organs for up to $15,000. And that was with a big discount and when $$s were worth more.
It's all a matter of priority. I still wear leisure suits left over from the 70s. My wife makes soup out of tree bark and Bermuda grass. We only wear shoes in February.
The Edsel is still holding up. But I will have the best keyboard (for me) available.
DonM


There is worst, i sold my car in September
and bought more synthm, now i am stuck home.
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Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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#255767 - 02/09/09 01:49 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Nedim ,

so this means you now you have lots of time to finish recording the "missing" chords on the AUDYA :-o

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#255768 - 02/09/09 09:02 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
No, it means now i smoke even more then i used to. You coming to NY?
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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#255769 - 02/09/09 09:06 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
yes, i will be there in NY Nedim, since it now seems we have a 100% complete AUDYA :-) or at least we will March 15th

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#255770 - 02/09/09 09:24 PM Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
No, it means now i smoke even more then i used to.


But WHAT have you been smoking, Nedim?

And after asking that other member if HE was drunk or on drugs! Give our regards to Micheal Phelps at the demo
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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