SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 1 of 16 1 2 3 15 16 >
Topic Options
#165431 - 12/09/06 10:15 AM Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
I know you have it a few weeks looks like a super KB.....I cant wait to get my hands on it.......how are you getting around it so far?

Top
#165432 - 12/09/06 10:20 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.



[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165433 - 12/09/06 10:35 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
In about 10 days, we wil release the new Linuxsampler 4.0, with 128 Midi channels integrated in the MS OS.

Now I'm working to create/edit the big Soundbank: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/LSampler4.jpg
and then I'm ready to release the new ISO 1.4.
Just some days more patience...

Top
#165434 - 12/09/06 10:41 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Fran......The open architecture OS really makes me excited versus the old school try, buy, play, & sell repetitive scenario we all know all too well.....the future is wide open....cant wait...see ya soon!

Domenick exciting stuff keep it coming baby!

Good Luck.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-09-2006).]

Top
#165435 - 12/09/06 10:58 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Fran I look forward to your review. The MediaStation is really the future of keyboards. Its layout and design should set a new standard for the arranger market.

Squeak
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#165436 - 12/09/06 01:46 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Donny you are going to love this board..The potential is going to be Super..I am awaiting the newest updates from Domenik..including a new OS and a updated Linux Sampler4...This will allow us to use VST's in our styles and SMF's..

I will have more on all this after all the downloads are completed..
I will also record a real time audio demo.....hopefully next week..

Future looks bright for the Media Station...



Sounds interesting.
I Can not wait for your full and unbias review.


Question, would the mediastation recognize rootless chord voicings? For example, if I play F C E would it play a F Major 7 or a D minor 7?
_________________________
TTG

Top
#165437 - 12/09/06 01:55 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
Fran, are you abandoning your Roland role? OMG, I thought that day would never come.
_________________________
Riding on the Avenue of Time
cassp50@gmail.com

Top
#165438 - 12/09/06 02:32 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165439 - 12/09/06 08:04 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Congtratualations on your new keyboard Fran.
Wonderful to hear you're enjoying it.

best wishes
Rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

Top
#165440 - 12/10/06 11:47 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Yippppeeee... I get to play the MS tommmorow at Frans studio...should be fun!

Top
#165441 - 12/10/06 12:07 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
Hey Fran,
Glad you are enjoying your MS. You will have seen I advertised mine for sale last week but thank fully I didn't sell!! There were some thinigs I wanted/needed which were not available at the time but Dominic has sent out a couple of updates this last week which have sorted out the problems and now I am a happy MS user - no longer for sale!
I guess I was a little impetuous but thanks to other MS users I now have what I need from the MS and am able to use live and it sounds just great ...
LS4 comes out next week so looking forward to that - and then its onwards and upwards!
Regards
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
No Cass, that day has not come...

Genesys, I do not have that answer for you yet..initially it does not appear to read "rootless" chords..

If enough people want it , I am sure Domenik will enable more chord readings.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-09-2006).]

Top
#165442 - 12/10/06 01:54 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hello Mark
Thats the beauty of software based boards; you dont have to change the board to get new features. (I know I wouldnt go back to the restricted hardware system)
Enjoy

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165443 - 12/14/06 10:59 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Hello Dnj and Fran
I will send in the next days to Fran the new MS update and the new GIGA library too.
When Fran have then installed the all new setup, go there and test the new GIGA orchestra 8Gb section, the new 4 big GIGA pianos 4Gb too and let me know i sounds amazing.
We are working now to remap the all new styles under giga format only and then we can discuss again about this styles arguments...
Remember that Fran have ONLY one MS with the 24Mb GM soundsbank and his mixer board is the first hardware release, half analog and half digital.
Now the all MS are only FULL digital 24bit with NO NOISE at all.
Mark made some audi test too and he can tell you that the MS with FULL open audio outs is totally MUTED.
Try with any your analog embedded keyboard and MAX volume out and tell me if you have some noise in the background in your PS system....

Top
#165444 - 12/14/06 11:59 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Domenic .....Thanx for the info I will definitely try the MS again once Fran installs the new software for sure.....
I will try the features you describe also.....keep up the great work its an never ending improvement with the MS which is definitely the way to go in the future.

Top
#165445 - 12/14/06 01:26 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1675
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
Is there a place we can try the Media Station on the east coast?

Also how does it compare style wise to Ketron?

Is it stable?

I am interested in getting the SD5. but I will sell my Tyros 2 and get the Mediastation if it sounds the part

Where can I listen to some styles? any demos online?

Also any discounts for a paesano? Father is from Abruzzi, mom is from Sicily, been there about a dozen times///


thanks
_________________________
www.AudioProCT.com
Frank@AudioProCT.com

Top
#165446 - 12/15/06 10:42 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Here's Lionstracs demo page for the styles......
http://www.lionstracs.com/site/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=37&catid=37&Itemid=59

Still not convinced...... but perhaps a more professional player could coax better from the styles. There are many weird 'jumps' in the styles and volume problems (but I think most of those come from the live playing on the top of the style).

I wish that Domenik would go to the Tyros2 site, or the E80 demo page, and take a long HARD listen to those demos. They are VERY well mixed and played, and show off their arranger's capabilities to the highest extent possible. To demonstrate just how good the styles can be on the Mediastation, I would not rest until the Mediastation's demos were AT LEAST as good. It is hard to back up a claim that the Mediastation is so much better than T2 when the factory demos are as lame as that. On paper is one thing, but I guarantee that everyone at SZ judges an arranger more by the online demos than by paper specs.

I am NOT saying the Mediastation is not capable of blowing all other arrangers out of the water, but if the factory demos can't do it, how can you convince us of the fact? Spend more money, Domenik.... Hire the best arranger player in Europe, let him tweak the Mediastation to sound as good as your promises. Then watch the orders come flooding in.....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165447 - 12/15/06 11:27 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
The updates that Dominik has bought out recently have certainly continue to improve the Mediastation - but the styles are - in my opinion - not usable - I know he is working on new ones and these can't come out soon enough ...New styles and some better sounds and we are set...I am sure the updates will continue to come and the MS will get better and better..
Mark!
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Here's Lionstracs demo page for the styles......
http://www.lionstracs.com/site/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=37&catid=37&Ite mid=59

Still not convinced...... but perhaps a more professional player could coax better from the styles. There are many weird 'jumps' in the styles and volume problems (but I think most of those come from the live playing on the top of the style).

I wish that Domenik would go to the Tyros2 site, or the E80 demo page, and take a long HARD listen to those demos. They are VERY well mixed and played, and show off their arranger's capabilities to the highest extent possible. To demonstrate just how good the styles can be on the Mediastation, I would not rest until the Mediastation's demos were AT LEAST as good. It is hard to back up a claim that the Mediastation is so much better than T2 when the factory demos are as lame as that. On paper is one thing, but I guarantee that everyone at SZ judges an arranger more by the online demos than by paper specs.

I am NOT saying the Mediastation is not capable of blowing all other arrangers out of the water, but if the factory demos can't do it, how can you convince us of the fact? Spend more money, Domenik.... Hire the best arranger player in Europe, let him tweak the Mediastation to sound as good as your promises. Then watch the orders come flooding in.....

Top
#165448 - 12/15/06 11:35 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonesyboy:
[b]Hey Fran,
Glad you are enjoying your MS. You will have seen I advertised mine for sale last week but thank fully I didn't sell!! There were some thinigs I wanted/needed which were not available at the time but Dominic has sent out a couple of updates this last week which have sorted out the problems and now I am a happy MS user - no longer for sale!
I guess I was a little impetuous but thanks to other MS users I now have what I need from the MS and am able to use live and it sounds just great ...




[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 12-15-2006).]

Top
#165449 - 12/15/06 12:03 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
So much self-contradiction by the Mediastation users!

Is it 'unusable' or does it 'sound great'?

I believe that the Mediastation, in trying to be BOTH arranger and workstation, is still succeeding primarily in the workstation end, and has a long way to go as an arranger (at least from what I hear in the demos). As has been said many times on this forum, the vast majority of arranger users want two things..... tons of really good styles, and no need for extensive 'tweaking' OOTB.

Despite it's many stellar features, in these two categories the Mediastation still seems to fall flat. Far better to think of this keyboard as a workstation with a potentially good arranger section than to commit a lot of money on it in the hope that it will immediately be your primary arranger. From all accounts, you've got a fairly uphill road to travel before it is going to wow a T2 user with just it's arranger capabilities OOTB.....

As always, everyone says something is just around the corner that will fix everything, but they've been saying this since it came out. I don't buy an arranger for what it might potentially do, I'm interested in what I get for my money the day I take it out of the box. And I am afraid that is probably the attitude of most buyers.

Domenik, give the new 'features' a rest. Spend EVERYTHING you have on style and sound development for a year, THEN go back and start adding OS improvements. Your bottom line will thank you for this...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165450 - 12/15/06 01:05 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
Diki,
My view is simple - the styles are very poor - need new styles very quickly - the sounds of the B4 and the pianos are awesome ...thats it in summary...
New features are good but new "needed" features are more important than the nice to haves..
Styles, good sounds other than B4 and Piano, are fort me the prioritya nd I know Dominic is working hard towards delivering these...
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
So much self-contradiction by the Mediastation users!

Is it 'unusable' or does it 'sound great'?

I believe that the Mediastation, in trying to be BOTH arranger and workstation, is still succeeding primarily in the workstation end, and has a long way to go as an arranger (at least from what I hear in the demos). As has been said many times on this forum, the vast majority of arranger users want two things..... tons of really good styles, and no need for extensive 'tweaking' OOTB.

Despite it's many stellar features, in these two categories the Mediastation still seems to fall flat. Far better to think of this keyboard as a workstation with a potentially good arranger section than to commit a lot of money on it in the hope that it will immediately be your primary arranger. From all accounts, you've got a fairly uphill road to travel before it is going to wow a T2 user with just it's arranger capabilities OOTB.....

As always, everyone says something is just around the corner that will fix everything, but they've been saying this since it came out. I don't buy an arranger for what it might potentially do, I'm interested in what I get for my money the day I take it out of the box. And I am afraid that is probably the attitude of most buyers.

Domenik, give the new 'features' a rest. Spend EVERYTHING you have on style and sound development for a year, THEN go back and start adding OS improvements. Your bottom line will thank you for this...

Top
#165451 - 12/15/06 01:26 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Thanks, Mark, for the clarification. I think it kind of confirms what I thought I heard in the factory demos.....

But, once again (as I so often seem to find myself misunderstood despite trying to be clear!) I repeat - I am probably going to end up with one of these, or something similar, as soon as the dust has settled. Potentially, it is the future of keyboards, but for me I think it is not the present.

When it sounds better OOTB than the competition, it will be a no-brainer. Until then I repeat - Domenik, LISTEN to what most arranger users want and provide it, and they will beat a path to your door.....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165452 - 12/15/06 01:33 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
Diki
You are right - the MS is the future which is why I am sticking with it - I have been unhappy from day 1 with certain aspects (Stles and some sounds) but very impressed with the way Dominic is working with the plans for the future. We are just about to get a new OS update, more sounds and as I said he is working on about another 300 styles - so OOTB is not currently on par - but soon it will not only be on par but leave the competition chasing...
I hope my view is now a little clearer.. I enjoy my MS but I just want more from it and then it will be excellent.
Regards
Mark!
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Thanks, Mark, for the clarification. I think it kind of confirms what I thought I heard in the factory demos.....

But, once again (as I so often seem to find myself misunderstood despite trying to be clear!) I repeat - I am probably going to end up with one of these, or something similar, as soon as the dust has settled. Potentially, it is the future of keyboards, but for me I think it is not the present.

When it sounds better OOTB than the competition, it will be a no-brainer. Until then I repeat - Domenik, LISTEN to what most arranger users want and provide it, and they will beat a path to your door.....

Top
#165453 - 12/15/06 05:29 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
nothing 60 lbs is going to be the future of arranger kb's.
cut the weight in half--now there's the future.

------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165454 - 12/16/06 05:52 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by keysvocalssax:
nothing 60 lbs is going to be the future of arranger kb's.
cut the weight in half--now there's the future.



The Wersi Abacus is heavier than the Mediastation and in my opinion Wersi represents the finest arranger/workstation on the market today. When Lionstracs gets the new ISO finished it will be closer in performance to the Wersi in operation but Wersi still has the others beat hands down when it comes to the wonderful factory sounds.

If you base what you buy just from being light weight you aren't going to have many options to choose from and certainly not the best keyboards available. I've yet to see any serious musician limit what he or she will buy because its too heavy, especially if it offers better sound, more features, and superior build quality. My Korg Oasys weighs a ton but that didn't stop me from buying one. If it works for what I need it to do why should I care if its heavy? That's what roadies are for. My Fairlight CMI III weighs almost 200 pounds and cost me more than a small house back in the 1980's but I still bought one. Why? Because it sounds amazing and it's built like a tank!

I think its funny that some people will pay a lot of money for cheap plastic keyboards like the PSR-3000 and Tyros 2 and expect them to hold up under the rigors of everyday use. The PSR-3000 isn't even a professional product designed for extensive daily use, its a home keyboard. Sure the PSR sounds OK, but next to my Wersi it sounds like poop.

Top
#165455 - 12/16/06 06:22 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
So much self-contradiction by the Mediastation users!

Is it 'unusable' or does it 'sound great'?



The Mediastation sounds pretty damned good and has an incredible dynamic range. In fact its dynamic response is much broader than the Korg Oasys which sounds quite amazing. I'd not call it unusable by any stretch but if you want to make that assumption based on an web MP3 demo, by all means that's your prerogative.

Most people are forgetting one thing about open ended systems, they are open ended for a reason. The end user can load and play whatever sounds, styles, VST's, or audio files they need or want to. While I do believe companies like Lionstracs can benefit by providing a larger stock library with their products, its not necessary for them to do so. The end user can easily achieve what they want with the Mediastation by simply loading new sounds, styles, and audio files in.... hardly a difficult task.

I have lots of GIGA samples and other VST's I use with my open ended keyboards (Wersi, Mediastation) and if I need more styles, sounds, etc., I'll buy them. I didn't get an OAS style system and expect the manufacturer to give me thousands of dollars worth of samples for free. You wouldn't buy a car and expect to get gas for free for the rest of your life. Do you expect computer manufacturers to give you for free all the programs you want to use with your new computer system? I'll bet not. Domenik and Lionstracs are giving MS users sounds, styles, VST's, and software for free so the user can utilize them, edit them, or choose not to use them if they are so inclined. That's pretty fair considering no other manufacturer to date has provided that type of support. Even the new software in my Korg Oasys came with a demo Plug-In that I had to spend another $250 to get authorized. Hardly free but still worth the money.

Every time I load a new OS, new samples, or new styles in my system it's like having a new keyboard all over again. Try that with an embedded keyboard!

Top
#165456 - 12/16/06 07:28 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
FRAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT
THE MEDIASTATION, BUT MY EMAIL COMES BACK
REJECTED FROM YOUR NNI ADDRESS. CAN YOU EMAIL ME
WITH YOURS AND/OR PHONE? THANKS.

------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165457 - 12/16/06 07:31 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
The end user can easily achieve what they want with the Mediastation by simply loading new sounds, styles, and audio files in.... hardly a difficult task. Thats a matter of opinion..loading styles is not that easy to someone who has never done it and I dont think it is too much to ask a manufacturer to supply at least a small amount of QUALITY styles...is it?
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
The Mediastation sounds pretty damned good and has an incredible dynamic range. In fact its dynamic response is much broader than the Korg Oasys which sounds quite amazing. I'd not call it unusable by any stretch but if you want to make that assumption based on an web MP3 demo, by all means that's your prerogative.

Most people are forgetting one thing about open ended systems, they are open ended for a reason. The end user can load and play whatever sounds, styles, VST's, or audio files they need or want to. While I do believe companies like Lionstracs can benefit by providing a larger stock library with their products, its not necessary for them to do so. The end user can easily achieve what they want with the Mediastation by simply loading new sounds, styles, and audio files in.... hardly a difficult task.

I have lots of GIGA samples and other VST's I use with my open ended keyboards (Wersi, Mediastation) and if I need more styles, sounds, etc., I'll buy them. I didn't get an OAS style system and expect the manufacturer to give me thousands of dollars worth of samples for free. You wouldn't buy a car and expect to get gas for free for the rest of your life. Do you expect computer manufacturers to give you for free all the programs you want to use with your new computer system? I'll bet not. Domenik and Lionstracs are giving MS users sounds, styles, VST's, and software for free so the user can utilize them, edit them, or choose not to use them if they are so inclined. That's pretty fair considering no other manufacturer to date has provided that type of support. Even the new software in my Korg Oasys came with a demo Plug-In that I had to spend another $250 to get authorized. Hardly free but still worth the money.

Every time I load a new OS, new samples, or new styles in my system it's like having a new keyboard all over again. Try that with an embedded keyboard!

Top
#165458 - 12/16/06 07:48 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:

I've yet to see any serious musician limit what he or she will buy because its too heavy. That's what roadies are for. I think its funny that some people will pay a lot of money for cheap plastic keyboards and expect them to hold up under the rigors of everyday use.


Well, I am a very serious musician but I'm not going to risk
another hernia or aggravate my back or wear myself out on gigs in smaller venues, which is what I work, without
benefit of a roadie. Not that I compare myself with these,
but Caruso sounds better on old 78's than most of the singers today on cd's, and Charlie Parker still blows all
of his followers away w/stuff played on borrowed cheap saxes and recorded on a wire recorder with a mic in the
bathroom. So i know I can sound really good on any decent piece of equipment, and i've been using "plastic" Korg and Technics kb's for 6 years without a single problem of any kind..not one, not ever. Sure I'd love to have the best sound/style/nav available, but not at the
price of knocking myself out physically..but that's for each
to decide. I see folksinger/guitarists set up 2 JBL Eon15's
on tall stands w/monitor, huge heavy mixers, etc that take
a lot of time and effort to set up/down and load into van,
for gigs in a tiny bar. Is their sound "bigger"? yes. Better?
God no, worse, because they think that replaces their
musical ability. A great performer will sound better than them on a cheap guitar, pignose amp and $20 mic. Will he sound even better on the big system? Yes, but not that much. Law of Diminishing returns always applies. Another great piece of advoice from many wise men: Travel Light!


------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165459 - 12/16/06 08:01 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I'm "serious" enough to have earned a pretty nice living for some 30+ years, and I refuse to consider a heavy arranger keyboard. Knock yourself (and your back) out though, if that's what you want to do.
Unfortunately, roadies are not in my budget.
But that doesn't make me not serious.
Happy Holidays to all!
DonM
_________________________
DonM

Top
#165460 - 12/16/06 10:50 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
This thread is starting to show the range of usage arrangers are finally getting, and the wide range of users that use them!

Ensnareyou has the luxury of a seemingly limitless supply of money (at least from his keyboard list.... a Fairlight, an Oasys, a Mediastation AND a Wersi Abacus, and probably everything else on the planet!) and never has to lift a keyboard himself...... congratulations!

Unfortunately, the rest of us live in the real world, where even affording ONE of those keyboards is a stretch on our budgets at best, and roadies are only available if your wife bears them and you raise them as weightlifters!

Taking financial advice from a billionaire is only valid if you have the resources to play in his league! $1000 dollars invested doesn't have the same power as $100M...

So...... in the REAL world, 60-70lb keyboards HURT...... Even 45lb ones are work!

Also, ensnareyou gets our posts mixed up.... 'unusable' (from jonesboy's post, not mine!) refers to the styles, not the sounds, or the audio quality of Domenik's demos.

'Fess up, ensnareyou..... do you actually ever GIG with the Mediastation, or is it just a studio toy you never have to move, or rely on for a show (by itself)? Under those circumstances, it's easy to imagine that not sounding very good (style-wise) OOTB isn't very important. But once again, in the REAL world (as shown by the majority opinion of the members here) the styles and OOTB sound and ease of use are the primary concerns of arranger players.

Most of us rely on ONE arranger, at most two, to gig with. If that arranger's styles are stiff, limited in choice, and generally translations from other arrangers, rather than tailored specifically to the strengths of the onboard sound-set, it's a tough choice for us to pick over arrangers like the T2 and PA800, etc., that come loaded with high quality, well balanced styles.

Add in the fact that the 'open-ended' arrangers are not the only ones that can add in new styles, and sometimes get OS improvements that add completely new features to our supposedly 'closed' systems. Plus several of them have samplers, to add to the sound-set (albeit with glacial load-up times!)

It IS refreshing to have a viewpoint on this topic completely devoid of concerns for price, weight, and usability or of the effort to correct that usability, but in the REAL world, most of us care about stuff like that. Maybe one day I will be in the same situation, but until then......
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165461 - 12/16/06 03:43 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
Doesnt it bother you that the manaufacturer of a product that is already on the market being sold as a market ready machine cant put up demos of the instrument using well balanced styles using Giga samples ? If it is too much trouble to balance the imported styles or demo the "openness using giga" through its demo styles or cant be bothered to, does that bode well for potential purchasers ?

Jonesey Boy i have been rushed off my feet trying to get ready for Christmas . Can i call you first thing in the new year to come check out the MS ?
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165462 - 12/16/06 04:42 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Spalding..... couldn't agree more.

Everything about this machine screams 'potential' rather than 'actual'.

Like I said, Domenik, quit adding new features to the OS (unless that is in a 'potential' state, too) and voice this thing to better a T2 OOTB, and you've got MY money......
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165463 - 12/16/06 04:43 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
Sure - anytime...you have my number.
Al the best
Quote:
Originally posted by Spalding1:
Doesnt it bother you that the manaufacturer of a product that is already on the market being sold as a market ready machine cant put up demos of the instrument using well balanced styles using Giga samples ? If it is too much trouble to balance the imported styles or demo the "openness using giga" through its demo styles or cant be bothered to, does that bode well for potential purchasers ?

Jonesey Boy i have been rushed off my feet trying to get ready for Christmas . Can i call you first thing in the new year to come check out the MS ?

Top
#165464 - 12/17/06 12:20 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Ensnareyou has the luxury of a seemingly limitless supply of money (at least from his keyboard list.... a Fairlight, an Oasys, a Mediastation AND a Wersi Abacus, and probably everything else on the planet!) and never has to lift a keyboard himself...... congratulations!

'Fess up, ensnareyou..... do you actually ever GIG with the Mediastation, or is it just a studio toy you never have to move, or rely on for a show (by itself)? Under those circumstances, it's easy to imagine that not sounding very good (style-wise) OOTB isn't very important. But once again, in the REAL world (as shown by the majority opinion of the members here) the styles and OOTB sound and ease of use are the primary concerns of arranger players.


I've worked hard to get all the gear that I have and nothing was ever given to me. If my priorities are different from yours and I feel investing lots of money into my gear is worth while, its what I do.

I don't gig but I do travel extensively with my gear on recording sessions. I constantly lug around lots of gear and not once have I ever ruled out buying a piece of equipment due to its weight. FYI... I carry my own gear around, I don't have roadies. If I did need them I'd most certainly hire them.

Perhaps your sound live can be accomplished with a PSR3000, Tyros II, PA1X or some other arranger but mine can't. If anyone ever comes out with a lightweight keyboard that rivals my existing gear I'd buy it but so far that hasn't happened yet. Of course YMMV.

Top
#165465 - 12/17/06 01:54 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Hey guys..
I really don't understand why you there have to discuss about the MS weight.
The Mediastation X-76 is weight only 26Kg.

The Korg PAX pro weight 19.5Kg
The GEM Genesis S weight 27Kg
The Roland E-80 weight 22.5Kg
The Korg OASYS 76 weight about 32Kg
A lot of other professional keyboards weight much more than the Mediastation and I really don't see what is the problem from 5-6Kg more than other keyboards.

Remember that the T2 is only a home keyboard, full bulding in plastic, short and NOT weighted 61 keys keyboard.
Like a lot of other this range keyboards are developed only for home gig's.
You will never see one professional musician in one big band playing with this keyboards, they will use only big shape and robust professional keyboards.

So..better stop with the weight arguments because I really don't care and I will not listen.
MAYBE when the Korg Oasys, Wersi made the same keyboard weight 19Kg...then we think about too to design again the mediastation and put ONLY plastic parts.

Fortunally the big orders come only from the Oriental area and they don't care about the weight BUT of the features.
They finally are happy to LOAD how MANY Mb/Gb of Oriental sounds that they need without limits.
Still the last new Oriental keyboard give they 20-30 new oriental mono sounds ( because is always the same...limited to load just some Mb of sounds and SLOW time loading untill the sounds is ready...just see under T2) we continue have more orders chance and slow slow we are covering the other brands too.

About the sounds:
T2 have only a fixed 504 map sounds and then is over.
Before end this year our Oriental sounds/styles developer have ready the cloned 504 GIGA Tyros 2 sounds too and then we can CLOSE the argument IF the MS can play the all T2 sounds too.

MS right now have a basic GM soundbank GIGA library of 1620 sounds + the about 700 GM sounds + about the 300 Synth patch sounds + the 40 basic B4 Patch presets...i have to continue?
Of course not all of this sounds are full amazing but of course more than the 70% are really good and you still can have the possibility to choose the only sounds that you like OR just load new sounds too.
After you add the more 504 T2 sounds I think finally you are happy.
Maybe later they will clone some more keyboards too.
I will suggest my MS clients to buy this: http://www.extranslator.com/
then you are able to clone all what you want, just with some euro...

About the styles:
I agree too that we don't have so nice styles like the T2 and of cousre no another keyboard like the Korg or Roland have the same nice styles of the T2 too.

After we will release the update ISO 1.4 with the new Linuxsampler 4 GM/GS we will remap again the all styles under giga format and release the other 300 styles too.
Untill this update we will not editing new styles because then we will make the double work for nothing.
Soon we will release the new Arranger editor features too, integrated with the new LS 4.
If you then will downloading the cloned T2 soundbank, we will include the Midi Mapper soundbank file LSCP linked to the T2 library, in this way you are able to play the all T2 styles too with the same T2 sounds.

From today I have already another 22 MS OS updates that you there don't have, because need the new LS 4. We will release all this new features when the ISO 1.4 is ready to download, just some more days patience.

Untill will come available this all updates..you have the totally freedom to criticize the MS but please..try to find VALID arguments and not stuff like the weight...
Freedom mean that you still are FREE to buy the keyboard that you much like, we will NOT force anynoe to buy the MS if you are not interested.
We don't need to contine posting new audio+video demos to convince you there when you are not interested.
We have to give you more balanced styles, this we know and for sure you will receive it soon and ALWAYS for FREE.

Anyway, good arranger or not, like or not, but the MS with the all features and tools included in the OS, still remain the TOP worldwide keyboard and not another professional keyboards can compete.
For me the ONLY keyb advanced can be the OASYS, but when in the MS we open this: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/ardur.png
with ton of GIGA sounds and VST...
and then this: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/images/cinelerra.jpg
is automatically killled out.

Top
#165466 - 12/17/06 02:10 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
An open keyboard is only expensive in the short term, in the long term it is cheap. (Example below)

Tyros Open and Close.

Close.
Tyros 2 comes out, trade in Tyros for new board, (Expensive) Tyros 3 comes out, trade in Tyros 2 for new board. (Expensive)

Open.
Tyros 2 comes out, purchase software (And if required hardware parts) and your Tyros becomes Tyros 2, (Cheap) Tyros 3 comes out, purchase software (And if required hardware parts) and your Tyros 2 becomes Tyros 3. (Cheap)

Styles are very personal, so it is unlikely any manufacture can please everybody all of the time, but by using style conversion software, users can pick and choose, the downside to this is that most conversion is done on a separate computer and then tweaked once loaded in the keyboard, however if you have an open keyboard the computer is built in, and so you can do it all in one go.

To fully understand an open keyboard, you really need to own one or play one for a good length of time. However once you do, you will realise just how limited hardware based boards are.

Good thread this

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165467 - 12/17/06 02:04 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
First things first....... Ensnareyou, I never said anyone gave you any money for your rig, I am sure you got it the old fashioned way (hard work and lots of talent!) and in no way intended to denigrate your achievement. Too much reading between the lines.... I try to do my best to say only EXACTLY what I mean. Sorry if you took it any other way.....

I kind of thought that you weren't extolling the Mediastation for it's arranger capabilities, but it's GIGA and VST playback potential, and from what you've said (no gigs, just recording, with the help of several other keyboards too) it seems I was close to the truth. No implied criticism, just an acknowledgment that you use your keyboards a little differently to most of us here.

For those of us that use an arranger for gigging, and as part of our recording workflow, the option exists to use computers for the VST and GIGA sounds, rather than needing an expensive keyboard to achieve what our studio rigs are already capable of, so for us, I guess the question remains - why a Mediastation if we already have VST capabilities?

The answer for most of us would probably be 'If it was better than our current arranger.....' which, until Domenik nails the styles, sadly can't be said. But you (and Domenik) are right, change is on it's way, and I look forward to it.

I am curious...... if you DID gig live, solo (like so many here do) what of your equipment list would you take for a gig, on the understanding that you would have to hump it all yourself? Once again, don't read between the lines, I'm just curious, that's all!

As to the weight thing..... I completely understand your point of view, I lug around the 20.5kg G70 in a full flight case myself. It's what I need, so no choice. But 33kg (a single manual Abacus) plus a flight case is getting into two strong men country there, and few local solo gigs pay the money to afford a two-man roady crew! It's not a B3, but it could still do some damage to us over 50 guys!

Domenik...... I don't believe I ever criticized the SOUND of the Mediastation. I am only too aware of the great sound you can get with GIGA and VST. But to use it as an ARRANGER, the styles have to rock at least as hard as the sound-set, otherwise it's a fancy workstation. I am looking forward to hearing the new styles, with VST and GIGA instruments included (have you got BFD or DFH2 working in the MS?)..... But I repeat again (and I'm TRYING to be constructive, here.... I want to see your success as much as you do), you HAVE to use the T2's and E80's and PA1X's demos as a benchmark for the quality of your website 's demos. And, by the way, I think the E80 AND the PA1X (and my G70!) ALL have style demos that better your current web demos. This isn't JUST about the T2.....

They ARE your competition, no matter what you would like..... If a potential arranger buyer doesn't get a MS, these are what they will get instead. So please, find a brilliant player to fully show off the capabilities of the MS rather than leaving it up to the listener to IMAGINE the potential. Your sales department will thank you for it....!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165468 - 12/17/06 04:38 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
Untill will come available this all updates..you have the totally freedom to criticize the MS but please..try to find VALID arguments and not stuff like the weight...
"Freedom mean that you still are FREE to buy the keyboard that you much like, we will NOT force anynoe to buy the MS if you are not interested.
We don't need to contine posting new audio+video demos to convince you there when you are not interested.
We have to give you more balanced styles, this we know and for sure you will receive it soon and ALWAYS for FREE"

You just dont get it Dom do you. The comments here are from people interested in buying the MS but they simply want to ensure the instrument is ready for their needs. It blatantly is not right now.After which update in the future will it be ???

Abacus a few weeks ago posted a demo of a cloned T2 style and it was amazing. Abacus is not trying to sell wersi keyboards for them, (although he i doing a darned good job of it )he has no vested interest in wersi sales but he has listened to the feedback on this forum and literally closed the deal for wersi (as far as i am concerned) simply by providing what we as musicians want.Good styles well balanced and great sounds using an "open system".He has shown not just what the instrument might possibly do in the future but its capabilities now. If you cant take the positive and very sensible feed back from this forum to improve your product then i wish you the best of luck with your oriental sales because clearly you are struggling here.
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165469 - 12/17/06 06:20 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
Quote:
Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:
Hey guys..
I really don't understand why you there have to discuss about the MS weight.
The Mediastation X-76 is weight only 26Kg.
Remember that the T2 is only a home keyboard, full bulding in plastic, short and NOT weighted 61 keys keyboard.
Like a lot of other this range keyboards are developed only for home gig's.
You will never see one professional musician in one big band playing with this keyboards, they will use only big shape and robust professional keyboards.
So..better stop with the weight arguments because I really don't care and I will not listen.


You don't care and won't listen? that will get you a lot of customers, yeah right. I don't want to fight with you, man, because i may be on the verge of trading for an Ms X76 and will need to have a good relationship. But your attitude is not going to make you the king of keyboard sales, that's for sure. It's just the opposite of what you are saying about home keyboards. Sure the big boys who have roadies and such will use the biggest and best keyboards available, why not? For all the rest of us pros, those big keyboards become the "home' studio units, and the so-called "home" units like T2 etc. become the units we take to the gigs, because we don't have roadies or want to break our bodies down just because something
is "better"..we know we can make good music on "plastic".
Even if i get your MS X76, I will be taking a new E60 or pa800 or in the interim my old Korg is35 or Technics Kn2600 to my gigs, and use yours at home, unless there
is a very very special event I want to pull out all stops for and get some friends to help me with the big load. All the
units you compare yours to fall into the same problem for us, it's not that yours is heavier than theirs, it's that they are all too heavy for our gigging use, and that represents a whole lot more customers for you than the ones you are
gunning for now. If you don't care about that, fine. It's amazing how lightweight plastic becomes denigrated by all the purveyors of steel and wood units. If a kb is well constructed electronically, it doesn't matter 99% of the time that the shell is plastic. Plastic can be very well constructed as well as poorly built, and can hold up for many many years of normal use. After i had my is35 for a while, i bought a similar i30 on ebay, on the reports that it had some superior features to the is35, and it was better constructed from metal. Well, i sold it 2 weeks later, because it was so much heavier, and the few slightly better sounds were not enough to overcome that. That plastic is35 still serves me well, and has held up through lots of hard knocks. Please understand, none of this is intended as a criticism of the Mediastation, which sounds like a wonderful instrument i would like to have. it's just
that there will always be limitations on your sales if you
are 60 lbs, whereas if you were 30 you would have a product that would be more usable for 90% of pros. So that's why i said it can not be the future at 60lbs, but it can be something wonderful nevertheless. All the best.



------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165470 - 12/17/06 06:26 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Thank you Dom.
Now I will never had to bother reading remarks about the MS again, because it will never be on my list of gear to consider. Not just because it is too heavy, but also because the designer refuses to listen to potential customers.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

Top
#165471 - 12/17/06 07:20 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.




[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165472 - 12/17/06 07:47 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
I cant for the life of me understand why the weight of the MS is even an issue here. You want a solidly built keyboard, then darn-it "expect some added weight".

How many people do you see lugging around a 76 key Yamaha Motif ES or 76 key Korg Triton??? They're everywhere, and many are lugging the 88 key models around. These are around 40lbs and up, yet they're getting used "everywhere"! It's not a shock to the owners about the weight. These are solid road worthy synths, and that added weight is due to durability.

Dom's MS has a little weight to it because he doesn't build it like crap-and it's as simple as that. The unit has hi-quality parts. You can't have semi-weighted keys and not expect some added weight. You can't expect it to be built like a tank, and have a cheap plastic PSR style body with cheap buttons, ect. Come on folks be reasonable.

You may feel that Dom's position on weight is a little harsh, but tell me one keyboard company where the top dog to the company can be reached so easily? Tell me one keyboard company where you can reach to top man and get answers from him personally????????? I understand his position and agree with him. Why should the current weight be an issue, when the added weight is due to "durability", and his 76 note arranger's weight is comparable to 76 key synth/workstations?

**as far as styles are concerned.., even Dom agreed with a few of you, yet keep in mind the number of new styles on the way. Keep in mind the constant OS updates to add new features. Hell lets see a show of hands from everyone here who bought an arranger from Yamaha, Korg, Roland, or Ketron who got 100's upon 100's of FREE SOUNDS????, and ALL THOSE FREE SOFTWARE UPGRADES, not just to fix bugs, but to "drum roll" constantly add NEW features?
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#165473 - 12/17/06 07:50 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Domenik has listened to what end users and fellow Synthzone members have had to say about their wants, needs, criticisms, etc. I've never seen any other manufacturer have that kind of customer support. If you have a question, Domenik is only a phone call or e-mail away and he always responds in a timely fashion. When's the last time you spoke to the President of Yamaha, Korg, or Roland on the phone or in person? I'm guessing never! Domenik actually cares about what his customers have to say and he's doing great things with the Mediastations software updates. Personally I can't say the same for Yamaha who left me in the dust when I had a PSR9000 Pro and waited months for a software update that never materialized (not even to this day). What about Technics who dumped their entire keyboard line after many people shelled out thousands of dollars on a KN7000. That's not the type of support I want when I spend that kind of money on any product.

Domenik's not going to lower the Mediastations build quality just to make it lighter weight, that would be silly. Sure, some people may not want to carry around a heavy keyboard but if you are spending that kind of money on a high end arranger keyboard, do you seriously want it to be made cheaply? I know I don't.

I have to wonder... how many of the people who are actually criticizing the Mediastation have ever seen, heard, or played one in person? Seriously, how many of us are there that would or have truly shelled out $4,000.00-$10,000.00 dollars or more for a high end arranger or workstation keyboard? Not to sound rude but if you can't afford to buy the product or you would never spend that kind of money on any keyboard, let alone an open ended system, why even bitch about it?

Top
#165474 - 12/17/06 08:42 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
"So..better stop with the weight arguments because I really don't care and I will not listen."
That's what he said. BUT, I shouldn't have generalized about his listening to customers.
I do appreciate the fact that Dom is accessible and that he is willing to work with his customers. Keep up the good work.
I am not arguing. I don't care how wonderful it is. It's not suitable for my purposes and I won't be carrying it around every day.
I can name half a dozen arrangers that do the job very well and weigh in the 30-pound range. I'm 63 years old and have a bad back, and I move my equipment sometimes 4-8 times a week. I don't really care for semi-weighted keys, because the progressing arthritis in my right hand is aggravated by the heavier keys.
I won't be using the arranger for studio work. The sounds the top arrangers come with are more than adequate to entertain the folks for which I play.
I'm not saying anyone else should be concerned about the weight, only that I am. So the MS is out of consideration for me, that's all. It is in good company because GEM, Wersi and the top Rolands are also out of the picture for me.
I do hope to hear Fran's MS one day, and I know it will sound great, but I won't be getting one.
As for happy faces, all one must do is follow the Golden Rule. In case we've forgotten, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Good advice regardless of its origin, or of which religion, if any, we observe. A lot of us haven't been following that at all, and I'm so dissappointed and so sad that I have trouble even reading the forum because I don't want to see what will happen next.
Go in peace and make beautiful music. Or at least danceable.
DonM



[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 12-17-2006).]
_________________________
DonM

Top
#165475 - 12/17/06 09:25 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
I can understand both sides here. I can appreciate the the MS is designed to meet a particular market so I have no criticism of that. Weighted keyboards provide a keyboard action that is demanded by the professional player. There is no way you can avoid the weight that this sort of action demands. I'd always choose to play a weighted action in a studio environment or live gig where keyboard weight is not an issue.

On the other hand I play in a live band myself and carrying my own gear in my car limits the type of keyboard I carry to a 61 key non-weighted action ( ie Motif 6 ) so I can also identify with DonM's sentiment. Neither choice is right or wrong but is simply determined by practicality. When I'm playing piano parts I really miss the weighted action. Then on the other hand when I'm playing organ and synth parts I do love playing a non weighted action. If I have a road crew carry and set up my keyboard rig then I'd definately have both actions available. Unfortunately I have to choose just one keyboard that I use for all parts. It is always a compromise.



[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 12-17-2006).]

Top
#165476 - 12/17/06 09:50 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
I wasn't talking about Dom or how good he is or his kb is.
there is no need for anyone to defend him in terms of the weight issue, and i was not trying to criticize his fine kb. I was discussing weight as a factor in the utility of arranger kb's that most pros travel to gigs with. There are many musicians who are impervious to the weight issue, in fact some are outright masochists, bringing the biggest and loudest amd most complicated to set up sound systems to any and all gigs in the belief that it makes them sound better than they are, let alone lugging heavy keyboards around. but for the majority, weight is an issue, a real issue, one that cannot be swept aside by saying that's the trade-off for quality. The trend everywhere in all electronic devices is compactization, lighter weight--and higher utility. computers, cameras, phones, tv's etc. The trend in kb's seems to be going in the opposite direction, which i fail to understand, except that maybe it is felt that a heavy metal and wood case gives the person who spends that kind of money a feeling they are getting their money's worth. A plastic case can be made well and hold up to all but the most extreme abuse for long periods.
The quality of the electronics inside bears little relation
to weight. Weighted, even semi-weighted keys are for piano purists who will use the piano sound foremost and want the familiar action. Weighted keys interfere with playing most of the other kb sounds with the expression appropriate to the other instrument sounds, so should be offered as an option. What i am saying is that I find no
credence in the argument that it is necessary to have a
heavier kb to have a better kb, and that the manufacturers know this, but don't feel they can justify the prices without the legendary "thunk" of the door closing on
Cadillacs, back in the day when that was the standard.

------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165477 - 12/17/06 10:49 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
For me the weight is not an issue - sure it's heavy but when out gigging it is nice to have you have a solid well built bit of kit and not something that you have to treat with kit gloves. In terms of Dom listening to customers - this is one area that he MUST be defended on - he was recently in the UK and I spoke to him about some concerns I had and the next thing I knew he was at my front door...now THAT's customer service!!! I ca honestly say that the CEO of Yamaha,Korg or my beloved Roland has never done that!
Sure the MS has a long way to go - but given time this will be the instrument of the future...Dom does listen, he is working around the clock to provide a real quality instrument, and as the updates come out it does get better and better. I have been critical of it - much of the time because of the styles - but as for piano sounds and B4 there is currently nothing better (Yes I know personal opinion) ... and of course you can add to the MS whatever you like...vst's, Giga, and so on...
Enjoy and seasons greetings to one and all,
Mark!

Top
#165478 - 12/17/06 11:00 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Nigel, I never did play piano. Started on trumpet, then bass, then drums and guitar, then organ.
Maybe that's another reason I don't like the fully weighted keys.
I do wish there were more company people who were willing to work with the buyers. Dave McMahan, AJ and now Dominic seem to be exceptions to the rule. Of course they are all with smaller companies that don't have a lot of layers to go through and that helps.
Bedtime now.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

Top
#165479 - 12/18/06 12:39 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Ok guys....
I will correct my last post about the weight and why I can NOT reduce drastically the MS weight.
Here the points:
1) we use the best Fatar Synthesizer keyboard TP/8SK 76 keys weighted and ONLY this keyboard part is about 12Kg. In our MS production we will never use the cheap plastic and short 61 keys models that are about 5Kg. We are not interested to produce Home keyboards but only professional workstation models.
2) With the 76 keys weighted model we MUST use a metal case, because the keyboard is to much lenght and deep, NEED a stable case structure OR when you pickup the MS in one side, the cover and bottom case are moving like a sandwich.
3)12 PCB boards, Mainboard, ATX powersupply, HD IDE 3.5, DVD drive, Display have one weight that we can NOT cut or reduce. Buy there one standard ATX OC case, install the all hardware and you have a basic weight too that you can NOT reduce.
4) FCC and CE approval: Inside the MS we have one standard ATX PC with the standard ATX power supply where the ALL boards MUST be fitted in a Metal Case with the same Ground. CPU over 800/1000 Mhz clock have a lot of interference, NEED a metal case or we never can have the FCC/CE approval. So..untill we will use a standard PC CPU we never can make the MS under a plastic case.

These are the BASIC reason why we can NOT make the MS less weight and that will never be a Home keyboard.
I think now you have understand our position and why I will not listen about this arguments because I don't have any chance to design it again under plastic parts.
Is a compromise..if you like the power you need change the case too.
This is like a car, if you have a 100Hp engine this need a 15 Inches wheels, but if you have a 400Hp engine you CANT use the 15 inches wheels you need to have the 19/20 inches wheels too, it mean to change the car case too, right? Can then have the same weight with the new bigger parts?
Is a compromise, try to understand me too.

Top
#165480 - 12/18/06 02:26 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding4 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 113
Loc: england
The weight is going to be an issue for any arranger player. Its stupid, yes i said stupid for any arranger keyboard manufacturer to market an arranger keyboard to an arranger forum and then denigrate the instruments that the 90% of the members use (that as it happens sound better as arrangers than the one being marketed)simply because it is made out of light weight durable material. Which is precisiely why the members bought those instruments in the first place ! A professional instrument is an instrument suitable for the working musician (pro) that uses it. It has nothing to do with the material it is made from.

I get slightly ticked off when the MS's potential customers provide feedback to encourage sales and the product designer , marketer/sales person is down right rude to them. Thats all kinds of stupidity !!!

There are many current and perhaps future updates. Why is this marketed as a good thing ? Its good if the updates are to correct bugs but if this is the case then it means the instrument was not ready when sold in the first place. Its good if it increases functionality but not if the increased functions are not what the Market have been asking for. Just so that we are clear, the one functionality that THIS market has been asking for from the MS product is better and more balanced sounds using the giga that come shipped with the product.How many of the updates delivered and promised for the MS are specifically in response to users request to improve the arranger function as above ? I am told there is an update coming that will do this but it unfortunately means that the instrument IS NOT currently ready for the market it is currently being marketed to and i am yet to be convinced by either the manufacturer, their demos, or existing MS users that have come on this site that there is proof that it is. If i am wrong then fine i will accept some critiscism with good grace (something others could learn to do perhaps).

And for the record i am a member of the korg forum and regularly have send emails to Mr Trammoni who is one of the product managers for Korg. He listens , deals with technical queries , and responds to product suggestions and updates which is why in December this year the Pax1 range will recieve an upgrade basically providing almost all the increased functionality that the PA800 has for FREE within the limits of the PAX1 hardware. Thats means that the polyphony and sampling limits remain but pretty much everything else is updated.When we critiscise the PAX1 on that forum (and we do from time to time) we have never been insulted or talked down to from the Korg Product manager because he quite sensibly recognises that our suggestions/complaints are "buying signals" and we just need the reassurance that our concerns are recognised (hence the Pa800 is lighter than the PAX1 and it is very much a professional keyboard). Bare in mind that Korg is probably one of the largest keyboard manaufacturers in the world. They dont do everything perfectly but the one thing i need them to do well is produce a market ready instrument designed and able to meet the needs of the market it is aimed at.

Other smaller manufacturers could learn lessons from this.

Top
#165481 - 12/18/06 03:32 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Magica Alfa Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 259
I know that sometimes is DOMENIC sad, that you are speaking in this way with him or about MS.
I know he is trying to make the best keyboard ever.
I know that this is the best keyboard. I made "my styles, midi songs, mp3" and all is working really well.
Original styles need a little time to be better. But this is nothing compared to what is offer this keyboard.

I know that most of you will be in future proud users of open system keyboards.
In this moment is this market not as big as closed keyboard.

Yes, we all must thinking for future. I thing, we need together common language.

You all need a little patience and we will have complete different and better keyboards.

I know that open sys keyboards are the best future. You must find your true.


Best regards.

Magica Alfa


Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
I know you have it a few weeks looks like a super KB.....I cant wait to get my hands on it.......how are you getting around it so far?

Top
#165482 - 12/18/06 04:24 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
"I know that sometimes is DOMENIC sad, that you are speaking in this way with him or about MS.
I know he is trying to make the best keyboard ever.
I know that this is the best keyboard. I made "my styles, midi songs, mp3" and all is working really well.
Original styles need a little time to be better. But this is nothing compared to what is offer this keyboard"

This is the problem. Define what is the best keyboard ever ? Surely your market will tell you what that means , YOU CANT TELL THE MARKET WHAT IS THE BEST ! and the EXCELLENT feedback that Dom has had which he somehow takes offence to is telling him what the best keyboard ever should sound like, its functionality and its WEIGHT. For goodness sake listen Dom ! If the styles are poor and importing styleS is cumbersome and takes endless patience to tweak (remember G70?) what good is an open system to a "professonal" ie working arranger player ?

If/when the MS becomes ready as an arranger to compete with or better the existing closed system offerings then i will look at the MS again ( despite Doms best attempts at negative marketing )

Until then i have lost interest although i will check out jonesyboys MS if only to see how it compares with the PA800. I will wait till the next big update arrives that hopefully will address the isssues i have raised so far.
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165483 - 12/18/06 05:03 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
Chill - I understand what you are saying - but trust me I have gone through the emotions about the MS - I have the PA800/E80 and the MS all sitting side by side, and you can play the E80 and the PA800 quickly and easily - but sometimes you just need a little more and this is where the MS is good - ,forget the styles - we have already established that these are no good - Dom would probably agree with this - The B4 and Pianos are excellent - and as you can now load in anything you want to make the MS sound EXACTLY how YOU want it to sound..maybe all Dom is guilty of is his marketing approach -what he is actually trying to say and what he actually ends up saying sometimes can quite often be misunderstood...he is selling the added benefits of the MS where as alot of us want to know "what is it like OOTB" and once this is ok - what else can it do? I am now happy with my MS despite the fact that I dont play it at home - but then it wasn't bought for that reason - when I go out and play live the sounds that I can get from it (Piano and B4) fit the requirements that I have for it perfectly...you will ultimately see what the MS can do and make a judgement on what you want/need and buy the MS or not - as I said you are welcome anytime to come on over and view my MS and see what you think. Dom - better demo's on your web site, both audio and video would help potential buyers I guess - but as a MS user I would rather you did what you are doing and that is spending more time on updating the feature set than re recording audio and video demo's...
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by Spalding1:
"I know that sometimes is DOMENIC sad, that you are speaking in this way with him or about MS.
I know he is trying to make the best keyboard ever.
I know that this is the best keyboard. I made "my styles, midi songs, mp3" and all is working really well.
Original styles need a little time to be better. But this is nothing compared to what is offer this keyboard"

This is the problem. Define what is the best keyboard ever ? Surely your market will tell you what that means , YOU CANT TELL THE MARKET WHAT IS THE BEST ! and the EXCELLENT feedback that Dom has had which he somehow takes offence to is telling him what the best keyboard ever should sound like, its functionality and its WEIGHT. For goodness sake listen Dom ! If the styles are poor and importing styleS is cumbersome and takes endless patience to tweak (remember G70?) what good is an open system to a "professonal" ie working arranger player ?

If/when the MS becomes ready as an arranger to compete with or better the existing closed system offerings then i will look at the MS again ( despite Doms best attempts at negative marketing )

Until then i have lost interest although i will check out jonesyboys MS if only to see how it compares with the PA800. I will wait till the next big update arrives that hopefully will address the isssues i have raised so far.




[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 12-18-2006).]

Top
#165484 - 12/18/06 05:38 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Your explanation of why the MS weighs so much is perfectly valid and I appreciate your taking the time to explain it. I'm sure you will find a good market fot it, just not me.
Good luck with your project!
DonM
_________________________
DonM

Top
#165485 - 12/18/06 05:41 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding4 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 113
Loc: england
Thanks for that Mark. I guess all will be settled in my mind when i get to hear the instrument in person and i will write back on the forum and say honestly what i thought of the instrument. Have a great Christmas and i will catch you in the neww year. Be blessed !

Top
#165486 - 12/18/06 05:45 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
All the best - have a good one!
Regards,
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by spalding4:
Thanks for that Mark. I guess all will be settled in my mind when i get to hear the instrument in person and i will write back on the forum and say honestly what i thought of the instrument. Have a great Christmas and i will catch you in the neww year. Be blessed !

Top
#165487 - 12/18/06 08:46 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
i'm not an engineer so I'm not qualified to evaluate what is or is not necessary weight-wise to build a quality kb, and i appreciate Domenik's explanation of why he feels he has no choice but to make it how he makes it. if that is what he considers most desirable and what his clients consider most desirable, so be it. However, the necessary weight is still a problem for most of us and will always be. That needs to be acknowledged, not disparaged, and to understand that in today's world of advanced plastics and miniaturization and electronic sophistication, a product that needs to be heavier to get better will always be just a niche product. Calling the competition "home" units is not only insulting, it is patently untrue. Also remember that most users are not on any forum, and i'll bet half of the working keyboard players out there are playing gigs on much older yammies and casios. I see a lot of casios on duo/trio gigs. The guys i know who use them sound great on them, because they have some good sounds and the players are veterans who are not into equipment research and not into spending money if their basic need is filled.
If those are therefore not "home" units, then certainly the mid to top of line yammies, rolands, korgs are not either.
As i said earlier on, it's the heavies that tend to stay in the home studio, so let's stop the "home" pissing contest, OK?

As I also said earlier, a good quality synth action is far more desirable in terms of expressing all of the sounds, organs included, than semi-weighted, so why not let the piano-action dependent guys have a heavier 88-model option or let them use a separate 88 of their choice as controller? why not save the rest of us the 7kg(15.4 lb!) difference? Also, can the power supply not be outside the unit on the cord as Yamaha has done until recently? That
saves a lot of liftweight. I'm sure that there could be other
modifications to convert from metal/wood to strong plastic materials. The bugaboos that are raised about "solid" vs "flimsy" construction are just marketing tools, I'm afraid..they have little real validity for most players.
People will always justify that their Hummer is built like a tank. That's great, if you need a tank. I don't.

------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165488 - 12/18/06 09:16 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Quote:
Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:
So..untill we will use a standard PC CPU we never can make the MS under a plastic case.



Just in case the Mediastation catches on fire right Domenick? Therefore, because of heat issues from the CPU the FCC/CE won't allow you to make it with a plastic casing is that correct Domenick? Or is it because of 'grounding' issues with all the hardware inside? But if it were simply about 'grounding' then you could theoretically just use a metal grounding "strip" instead of the whole case having to be metal. So I am assuming because of heat from the CPU and a possible fire risk from the heat or if something were to short and something melted or caught on fire that that is the reason you need the metal case i.e. so the fire could be better contained within the keyboard's metal casing if that (God forbid) ever happened.

About the question of making it lighter, how about using a lighter, stronger, metal composite? For instance, if the case now weighs, let's say, 30 lbs., by using a lighter, stronger metal composite (which would allow you to also cut down on the thickness of the metal) you could theoretically cut the weight of the case shell in half or thereabouts. 45 lbs. is a lot more appealing than lugging around the 60 lbs. that the Mediastation now weighs. >> Although the weight of the Mediastation is not listed on your web site but the discussion here leads me to put the weight at 60 lbs. for the 76 key version?? I would also imagine the 88 key version weighs substantially more than the 76 key version does too. Probably 80 lbs. plus + right? You limit your potential customers by making the Mediastation excessively heavy in my opinion Domenick.

When you think about it, the professional keyboardist is looking for the lightest solution too. Not just the home hobbyist or in the Studio. Whether on Stage, in the Studio, or just as a hobby, lighter is always better in my opinion. PS: You CAN make a quality constructed keyboard that doesn't need to weigh a ton. The companies that have figured that out are selling the most keyboards. Not the companies that make their keyboards tipping the scale at 60-90 lbs. plus +.

If you don't mind being a niche market then you can continue to make them as heavy as you want I suppose. If you want to reach a larger segment of the market then making the Mediastation lighter would go a long way in acheiving that goal in my opinion.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 12-18-2006).]
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

Top
#165489 - 12/18/06 09:35 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by keybplayer:
If you don't mind being a niche market then you can continue to make them as heavy as you want I suppose. If you want to reach a larger segment of the market then making the Mediastation lighter would go a long way in acheiving that goal in my opinion.



Any keyboard that costs beyond a few thousand dollars is going to be in a niche market. Over $5K and your market is even smaller. The fact is simple, few people will spend anywhere near $4K let alone over $5K for a keyboard. Just look at the Korg Oasys for example.. it lists for nearly $8,500 and its market is so small less than a few thousand units have been sold worldwide.

Even if Domenik could make the Mediastation lighter he'd probably not sell many (if any) more because most people are cheap and won't spend that kind of money on a keyboard.

I'm curious to know who on Synthzone owns a high end keyboard like the Wersi, Mediastation, or Oasys. I'll bet there aren't more than a handful of us on here who do.

Top
#165490 - 12/18/06 09:59 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I'm afraid that I have to weigh in (pun intended!) on the side of those of you that don't mind the weight, as long as it is within boundaries.... While miniaturization is the buzzword in consumer electronics, durability is a long forgotten goal. The thinking, I guess, is that long before a well-built product fails, it's electronic and functional superior will be on the market, so why bother making it durable? No-one uses 15-year old mobile phones, despite them still probably being functional.

But a keyboard.......? No-one expects to pay the same price as a reasonable upright piano (which will last, with care, for a hundred years) for a poorly built plastic arranger that is sonically amazing, but will need to be babied just to get a decade out of it. I want durability first and foremost, with weight only a secondary consideration (but a consideration nonetheless).....

As to Domenik's rant (and Magica Alfa's halting English)..... I've said it in the past, I'll say it again - To be a player on the international scene, firstly you need to be able to communicate fluently in English. Hire a native English speaking Marketing Director, someone that will try to communicate with your potential buyers in a less confrontational way. Domenik may indeed be the most responsive arranger developer in the world, but he is just that - a developer..... NOT a salesman!

Lionstracs may indeed have the most responsive tech support on the planet, but while you may NEVER get an opportunity to talk to the head of Roland, you will also NEVER hear him slamming his potential customer's priorities, and stating outright he has no care whatsoever for their concerns.

While Domenik may have a very personal vision for what is needed in an arranger (apparently everything including the kitchen sink!) his potential buyers have a more focussed set of wants and needs. First and foremost are killer styles. If those are not a priority (and everything that Lionstracs have done so far show it was not theirs), then I repeat, all you have is a Neko or Muse Receptor with half-a$$ed styles.

Let's face it, if all anyone needed was a GIGA piano and B4 (all anyone seems to talk about glowingly), they could use their current arranger and a laptop, at a fraction of the price of an MS..... No, there has to be more. Now that most professionals already have a home or studio computer rig capable of VST and GIGA, what would make us pay for something that we already have? The ability to use it at the gig? A laptop can do that.

No, Domenik wants to supply an all-in-one solution. But for it to be all-in-one, it not only has to SOUND better than our current arrangers, it also has to be as easy to operate, and have AT LEAST as good, if not better, styles.

You will always sell to a few visionaries who realize that, with a LOT of work, they can sound a lot better than they have before. But to crack the mass market and achieve corporate stability (let's face it, if Domenik doesn't sell enough of these things, kiss goodbye to constant updates), you are going to have to do what Korg, Roland, Ketron and Yamaha have done....... DO THE HARD WORK FOR US, then sell it.....

Ketron are a very good case in point...... not, perhaps the most cutting edge sounds, but the styles..... aaahhhhhh! Well balanced and composed styles, EXACTLY what their customers want. MS seems to have exactly the opposite priority.

Next time, Domenik, before you tell US that your keyboard is the best on the planet, have a listen to what WE are telling you........
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165491 - 12/18/06 10:05 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
"The fact is simple, few people will spend anywhere near $4K let alone over $5K for a keyboard. Just look at the Korg Oasys for example.. it lists for nearly $8,500 and its market is so small less than a few thousand units have been sold worldwide.

Even if Domenik could make the Mediastation lighter he'd probably not sell many (if any) more because most people are cheap and won't spend that kind of money on a keyboard. "

Most people are cheap ???? Do you know how insulting that statement is ? Did you go to the same charm school as Dom ?????

So i guess it makes perfect sense to market his expensive heavy niche instrument on this forum where the vast majority of the members have bought "cheap" lightweight mass produced mass market apeal instruments right ????

You are not helping Doms cause Ensnareyou
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165492 - 12/18/06 10:42 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Spalding1:
Most people are cheap ???? Do you know how insulting that statement is ? Did you go to the same charm school as Dom ?????

So i guess it makes perfect sense to market his expensive heavy niche instrument on this forum where the vast majority of the members have bought "cheap" lightweight mass produced mass market apeal instruments right ????

You are not helping Doms cause Ensnareyou


I wasn't trying to help Domeniks cause, I was stating what I know based upon being in music sales for the past 25 years. The "average" person will not spend over $2K let alone over $5k on a keyboard (Grand Piano's excepted). I'd love to see a show of hands on who owns a Wersi, Mediastation, Oasys, or any other high end workstation or keyboard that costs over $5K. As I said, I doubt there are more than a handful of us here on Synthzone who do.

Yes, when it comes to spending over $5K on a keyboard most people are cheap. The high end market has been declining for some time now. If that weren't true sales of high end keyboards would be equivalent to the lower priced ones and that simply isn't the case. Yamaha can sell thousands of PSR's not because they are the best sounding best made instrument, its because their cost isn't too high. If a PSR3000 was at a $4K price point few would sell.

Don't be insulted by what I wrote... if you think you can sell tens of thousands or more of keyboards that cost over $5K maybe you should go into the manufacturing business. If you predicate your future on selling high numbers of $5K+ keyboards chances are you will be out of business really fast. If it were that easy Yamaha, Roland, Ketron, and Korg would be doing it. Korg is the only major company to take a chance with a very high end instrument (Oasys) and so far its sales in the past two years have not exceeded a few thousand units (that's a fact).

I'm glad companies like Wersi and Lionstracs exist because they push the envelope of what is state of the art. Not everyone can afford these instruments and there is nothing wrong with that. Telling the manufacturer that they should cheapen their product by making it from plastic because they might sell more is simply stupid. Chances are if they did most people still wouldn't shell out the cash for one because of the price. If you said the same comments to Ferrari, Rolls Royce, or Bentley do you seriously think they would cheapen their cars just to sell a few more? No way!

Top
#165493 - 12/18/06 10:55 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
My Goodness Folks! Dom couldn't have explained the reason for the weight any better.

I think what most aren't seeing here is WHAT the Mediastation really is... How many times have you seen someone post here about wanting to take their laptop with them on gigs, but don't want to haul that along with their keyboard. What the hell do you think the MediaStation is???

The MediaStation "IS" your keyboard and laptop in ONE unit. Break it down and what have with the MediaStation is simply that it is "literally" a computer with one hell of a bad ass midi controller attached and fine tuned to it. That's simply what it is.

Be pissed off if you want that someone said "homeplayer" when talking about some of these arrangers. Well like it or not, the makers THEMSELVES market these as " home keyboards". Yammie, Korg, and Roland make full synths as well as arrangers. Take Yamaha for example. Compare the construction quality of the Tyros 2 to a Motif ES-7. It's like night and day.

Sure Dom can add a lighter composite plastic body, but that doesn't always means it's cheaper to make. Anyone here own a pistol with a high impact composite frame??? Those aren't cheap. Seriously be realistic about this.

Dom clearly pointed out the FCC regulation, ect as for some of the UNAVOIDABLE weight issue. Geez compared to what we used to lug around, the MS's weight ESPECIALLY for a solidly built 76 key unit isn't nothing.

Also why should Dom go cheap on the body. Yammie and the others make cheap boards clearly marketed to the home player with flimsy plastic bodies. Dom makes a PROFESSIONAL keyboard, not directed at the home market. It is built to take the abuse of daily gigs. Now it's not to say that just because you have a keyboard marketed for home users it's a toy (we've all beaten that topic to death over the years so no use going into that crap again).

Dom I say ROCK ON my friend. You have clearly made a keyboard worthy of the money, and clearly lets the other makers know, they NEED to catch up because these open source keyboards ARE the future for keyboard players. Naturally those used to the typical "hardware" unit will be skeptical. It's like watching 8 track tape fade into where we are today with portable MP3 players. In time everyone will fall in line

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-18-2006).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#165494 - 12/18/06 10:56 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
brmoore Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 65
Loc: charlottesville, Va., U.S.A.
Is the MS the keyboard of the Future ?? It may very well be. The only problem with this is that I purchase something to use NOW. There is always that good chance that I will not be around to see the future. This means I desire top quality Styles and Voices NOW.
The only thing everyone seems to agree on is that the MS Styles leave a lot to be desired. If you are looking to purchase an Arranger keyboard (and this is an Arranger
keyboard forum) I assume you are looking for killer styles NOW. Just because new things will be available in the future does not mean they will be good or even usuable -
I remember when the Edsel came out as the car of the future.
I would love to have another option when buying a new Arranger - for this I need to try it out. Since there is no place for me to audition the MS I must depend on company Demos to give me an accurate picture of the benifits of the keyboard. I listened to the available MS Demos and if they are accurate and reflect the abilities of the MS, the future looks dim. Let's hear a Demo that does justice to the Keyboard.
One last thought - How many of you would marry an ugly woman (one without style) on the promise she will look better in the future.
Bruce

Top
#165495 - 12/18/06 11:19 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
ferarri, mercedes and rolls royce have done their market research and analysed who their customers are and what they will pay for what they want, has Dom done this excercise because if he had he might decide to choose a different way to market his instrument.

As someone who has been involved in music sales for 25 years you will appreciate that you will not be selling to the "average person". I am a salesman and i have a profile of the customers that i choose to sell to. Average people probably would not fit my sales profile. Musicians are clearly not average people . Most of them will save their hard earned money to spend if they believe the instrument that they want can fulfill all their needs and wants . Ask some of the guys on here that own 2-3 instruments currently or have spent in excess of 10000 over the last 5 yaers on new instrument purchases. They have the interst and they have the means but the product being offered does not meet their wants.

I know lots of musicians, producer etc who could afford the Oasys but have simply chosen not to purchase one because there is a concept that most "cheap" people ( especially in the UK)have understood and apply dailey. Its called value for money. These musicians are not cheap and they are not average people. They simply are not convinced that 8000 on one piece of equipment is value for money when they can work with far less costly equipment and get the same if not better results.

If i bought a ferrari the very least that i would expect is that i could drive it. If i bought an arranger keyboard, the very least i would expect is for it to have good balanced styles . afterall i bought it because it is supposed to be an arranger ...

If telling a manufacturer that in order to sell to us they need to make it lighter and actually functional as an arranger compared to its competitors is stupid then i guess ignoring the customer, being rude to them and telling them that they will not listen, denigrating the existing instruments and insinuating that they are not professional must be the hieght of intelligence ????

Last note , if Rolls Royce were short of customers in order to make a profit it would make whatever adjustments it had to to stay in business and yes that includes cheapening the price.Right now Rolls Royce has customers prepared to pay its prices for the percived value of the product. Dom certainly has potential customers willing to pay his prices but the value trade off is falling short.All businesses will not stay in business if it cannot adapt to the needs of the market.From what i can see nobody is beating down Lion Tracs doors for this product hence Doms attempts to encourage (in his unique way) more sales here.
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165496 - 12/18/06 11:28 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Ensnaryou..... My fully loaded and accessorized K2500S, after all the options I installed (not to mention paying for them in 1995 dollars) easily gets close to (or exceeds!) the MS's current price. It is still on of my primary session tools.

However...... it did what it claimed to do on the day I bought it, and now does considerably more. I have always thought it worth spending good money for good value. Keyboards I have owned and used in the past also include expensive CS-80s, B3s, Oberheim Xpanders and OBxa's, not to mention grand and upright pianos and accordions.

But all these keyboards did one thing - they all did what they were claiming they did the day I bought them, not in some nebulous 'future' when we'll all drive around in air-cars.

I am prepared to admit (although, of course I haven't had the opportunity to play one - who has?) that the MS is probably already the best workstation on the planet. But that is not what Domenik is claiming.... the MS is supposedly the best ARRANGER on the planet. Now go listen to his style demos..... convinced? I didn't think so.

If you have the MS so dialed in, why not donate a few killer demos to Domenik...? Presumably he's not willing to PAY a professional demonstrator to make them (despite how many amazing arranger players there are in Europe), but if some of the more vocal supporters would post examples of kick-a$$ style demos, it might help out a lot. Just make sure you demo OOTB styles and sounds, so we know what we are buying....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165497 - 12/18/06 11:59 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
How i tough before and always a lot of time...I think here im this forum I lose only my time and I can now understand why a lot of you guys don't like this forum too.

Fortunally in the oriental area they can develope his oriental styles alone and they don't need the western styles.

Untill they continue place order like this: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/images/100groove.jpg
I have first to listen what they want of features first, after they get what they want we are able to add our western features for make you there happy.

USA can be a big potentially area too, we know that but is really hard to try to change your dish where you had eating from many years.

I'm the first that gave the full respect of other brands too, i have to many friends there and they know me well too.
I told always that the T2 have the best styles, that Korg is the most advanced company and that I like much better the Roland design.
What I wrote before is that the MS still have the most advanced OS and Tools features that no another keyboard can have right now.
We can fix in better the styles, more balanced and what you all like, but for the others brands, develope the all OS and tools features that the MS have NOW, mean to waiting another 4-6 years.
And IF after 4-6 years they can arrival at the MS OS status, we still have another 4-6 years new advanced OS features.
That's all.
I'm bored now here...
have fun.
regards

Top
#165498 - 12/18/06 12:23 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
My last post on this thread......

Domenik - you want to sell those kinds of numbers in the West, too? Just LISTEN to us.....

If it takes 4-6 years before your styles are BETTER than Korg, Yamaha etc., it won't matter how advanced the features and OS are! You may be bored with this thread - perhaps honest feedback from your target customers in the West doesn't excite you as much as a Linux sampler, but unless you WANT to get relegated to selling to the Orient exclusively, western styles, in large quantity and better than the current offerings from your competition (no matter how hard you deny you have any!) will be the only thing to prevent it.

Now, it's up to you...... You want MY money? Get moving!

Still bored?........... See ya!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165499 - 12/18/06 01:40 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165500 - 12/18/06 01:42 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
My last post on this thread......
Domenik - you want to sell those kinds of numbers in the West, too? Just LISTEN to us.....
Still bored?........... See ya!


my last post on this thread, too. and piggybacking on what Diki said re STYLES,, same goes for WEIGHT issue, and it IS an issue, dammit, and it's not going to go away because you don't want it to be an issue. For those that want it all, have the bucks, and don't mind, or even prefer, having a sherman tank, keep offering your x-88 as your flagship model. But, as an alternative, make your x-76 with non-weighted yet quality keys, put the power supply
external, use a quality plastic case, or at least partially plastic. everything else can be the same quality, and you will lower the weight to 35 lbs, and you will be able to lower the price as well, and you will still have a great kb
that will sell many many many more units!

------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165501 - 12/18/06 02:06 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
35lbs!!! Come on. Did you not read Frans post? It already has a lighter metal body. Why in the world would any maker take a keyboard this size and one that requires a power source designed for computers and change that to a wall wart adapter?? That makes no sense.

Why should Dom pull what's clearly a TOP NOTCH keybed and replace that with a cheaper non-weighted keybed? You people seem to keep forgetting is that the MS is also a COMPUTER. It has parts that other arrangers don't have, so of course the weight is going up a bit.

Dom has built these units with top quality parts, and many issues with the weight were unavoidable (as Dom clearly pointed out). Yet people still find something to bitch about. Am I the only one that thinks this issue with weight (considering what the MediaStation is and what it's made of) to not be a serious issue? You can't ask for a keyboard to be built like a tank and then bitch and moan when "top quality" parts add a bit of weight.


I just think people bitch too much about keyboard weight on this forum. You want the thing to be light as a feather yet "durable". Our synths weigh more than the arrangers and you don't see synth players making such a big deal about it. We know the weight is due the units being built solid. I don't know, maybe the weight issue is really more of a concern to arranger players because of the market arrangers are intended for and geared towards.

Geez I remember when I was gigging and my set up at one time included a Yamaha DX-7, Korg Trinity, and my buddies classic Juno. Anyone who knows the DX-7 knows that board was rock solid, as well as the Juno's. I didn't give a crap about the weight. I gigged all week long with a setup like that. I could have cared less about the weight.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#165502 - 12/18/06 02:40 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
weight is not a bitching point, my friend--it's a real-world
parameter for most players. great that it's of no consequence to you, good for you, but please stop the in-your-face argumentative attitude, Ok? nobody is asking for Dom to put out a piece of crap, and nobody is saying what he is offering is not a great advance of the art. just saying make one sherman tank 88 for guys like you, and one 76 unweighted-key 35-lb plastic case version for guys like us. peace, brother.


------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165503 - 12/18/06 02:41 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Well, it WAS going to be my last post but this bombshell..... OMG! Fran as a dealer! I will NEVER say anything about one of George's reviews again!

Firstly, Fran, calling YOUR potential customer's comments a 'joke' just proves that bad salesmanship is not just a European concern, apparently (I AM one of those likely to be able to afford a MS). A smileyface is not going to cover up such disregard....

NOT comparing the MS to any other top of the line arranger..... a bad joke!

You and jonesboy are the only ones to comment on the styles from a perspective of the owner, so a 50/50 split as to opinions about the styles, and he isn't a rep. The rest of us just go to the website and listen to the demos. A bit more consensus there..... You don't have to play an MS to hear one and make your mind up.......

Let me add, probably 100% of the very few people that ARE likely to be interested in an MS (despite their sales staff's determination to insult them) already have at least a 16 track 24 bit computer recording capability, VST instruments, and all the plug-ins you can shake a stick at. These have LONG been available, at FAR less that the MS's Linux solution.

So what you are trying (sarcastically) to sell is something we already have. How much of this do we need to transport to the gig? Probably the VST and GIGA stuff only. Unless the styles blow my lowly, pathetic G70 out of the water (I know it's not a G1000, but it was all I could afford!), what need do I have for it?

Back in the day, Fran, you were quite prepared to comment on keyboards other than your own G1000, often with no more than a listen to manufacturer posted demos. Are you saying you were full of it then, or now?

The joke appears to be on us.......

------------------------------------------------

Seriously, man, you know I like you, but would YOU buy something from someone that just talked to you like your last post? Try reading George's posts and reviews if you need any pointers on how to communicate with a potential customer. Respect and patience will get you more sales than insults and confrontation......

Now I AM off this thread! (Unless Domenik's been setting up Saddam as a dealer, too!)
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165504 - 12/18/06 02:45 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
"I don't know, maybe the weight issue is really more of a concern to arranger players because of the market arrangers are intended for and geared towards"

bingo!!! somebody just switched on the light in here! Please let Dom know what his marketing department (if he has one) should have told him. The arranger market is different to the synth market.

Fran tell me what you are going to do with your 16 audi tracks in your one man band performance ? If i wanted backing tracks at a gig i would buy them . You and Dom might want this facility but tell me , does the arranger market want it ?

You say most of the styles work fine on the MS ? so were the demos that we heard online the better of the styles that worked "fine" in your opinion as someone that HAS SEEN and HEARD the MS, unlike the rest of us that can only judge it based upon what the manufacturer has put up for us to judge the instrument ?

What are you going to do with video editing on your arranger keyboard ? I genuinley want to know. Are you going to watch a film while you play audi tracks to your clients because you are too embarrassed to play the styles ? You and dom might want this facility but does the arranger market want it ?

if there were only a couple of potential customers on this forum then an awful lot of people wasted their time trying to persuade Dom to take their money off them. Perhaps there would have been more than a couple if Dom just listened!

if other arrangers as competition is a joke to you. if potential customers views and opinions sound stupid to you . then you are gonna struggle as a rep for the mediastation unless of course ......it too was a joke (note the absence of a smiley face)

You know what ? i wont comment on the MS again . I am feeling fairly wound up towards the manufacturer and its sales people as they quite obviously havent a bloody clue .
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165505 - 12/18/06 03:00 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Am I the only one who sees that the MediaStation is the "Hybrid" many of us have been asking for? A full fledged synth/workstation and arranger keyboard.

Weight issues are clearly different with synth players compared to arranger players, and that's fine. Who knows, maybe down the line Dom will produce a unit with a plastic body, and 76 non weigthed keys, but still keep in mind some of the unavoidable issues Dom had to meet with FCC regulations and so on.

Also keep in mind that Dom's english isn't the best. Dom is a really nice person. His post may come off a little harsh, but he doesn't intend to come off that way to people here. We who speak english well know how to "soften" a statement to avoid hurt feelings. Knowing and speaking to Dom I take his position as "we know the weight is an issue to some, but due to certain mandatory requirements some weight could not be avoided". That's how I saw it because I've chatted with Dom before, and he's a great guy, and I know he doesn't intend to come off that way. So I just right it off as a minor language barrier He "does" listen to users. His willingness to listen is obvious with the many changes that have come and are in the near future for the MediaStation.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#165506 - 12/18/06 03:00 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
sorry, said I was through but now my blood's up..try to compare it to Yamaha ypg line. not anywhere the same
kind of kb, natch, but just as an analogy, Ok?
they have YPG 625 which costs $799 w/legs, and is 88-key full weighted action. They also have an 88 and a 76
version with synth actions, costing $599 and $499 which weigh HALF of what the ypg 625 weighs. in every other respect except the sturdier legs and heavier case and woodgrain details of the 625, the units are identical.
I don't see any reason Dom can't take this as a model.


------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165507 - 12/18/06 03:52 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165508 - 12/18/06 04:06 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Posted by Fran:
----------------------------------------
It is not an arranger...It is a total
workstation, with arranger features....that is why we can't compare to the keyboards you refer to...
----------------------------------------

Fran you are spot on my friend! That may be where the confusion is here. The MediaStation is a full production system with arranger capabilites. Simply put the HYBRID we've been asking for.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

Top
#165509 - 12/18/06 07:39 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Guys, I didn't mean to start another controversy by bringing up the weight! I merely stated it wasn't for me. I sincerely wish Liontracks the best. They are doing a lot of things right for a lot of people, just not me, and I don't have a problem with that.
We ALWAYS have to make allowances for the language barriers between our different nationalities. I am in awe of anyone who can even partially master a second or third language!
DonM
_________________________
DonM

Top
#165510 - 12/18/06 10:31 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
Its got nothing to do with a language barrier ! Its insulting to anyones intelligence to think that Dom and frans attitude cannot be seen for what it is, just complete rudeness and total lack of respect to people who want to see what could be a good product become better. All along this whole thread and previous threads regarding this instrument the theme has been " this is the best instrument not like the cheap crap you amateurs have been playing and if you dont agree then sod off !" Those are not actuall qoutes but that certainly has been the theme . Then Dom typically leaves with the parting arrogance that has become his trademark. " I am wasting my time, i am bored , i will not listen !" Do you think he had a problem with language or is he just plain arrogant ? For goodness sake !

Now we are being spun the new angle that it is a complete workstation with arranger capabilities !Diki has already pointed out that the workstation features are available on computers for a fraction of what the MS costs so that aspect is less likely to interest certainly myself as opposed to the arranger angle. I have only heard the demos online like most of us.Just how capable an arranger is this thing ? one problem though. I am turned on musically by the arranger aspect, this is an arranger forum viewed in the main by arranger enthusiasts and professional musicians and the one thing that for sure does not measure up on the MS compared to the "cheap plastic " lighter competitors is guess what ?

I said i was done with this topic. Apologies.
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165511 - 12/18/06 11:00 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
A few points:
1.the styles need addressing - Dom is working on this and very soon all will be well ..He LISTENED when we asked for more and better styles.
2.Dom is a TOP Guy - the fact that he visited me in the UK to go over a number of the features and functionality of the MS speaks volumes!
3.He is open to all sorts of suggestions in respect of future updates for the MS ..Only last week I mentioned a feature that would be good for the layers and combi sounds and it is being added in the next os update.
4.He works "around the clock" to deliver what we as players want.
5.His support for his buyers is unrivalled in the marketplace - he is ALWAYS avaliable to help on line.
6.Last point - if you don't like Dom or his "apparent" poor attitude dont buy an MS ....simple!!
Mark!
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
It is not an arranger...It is a total workstation, with arranger features....that is why we can't compare to the keyboards you refer to...

And why can we not exchange our conversation with exactly the same attitude you guys always use...[no smiley)...And no I am not interested in being a dealer...been there ..did that..

Maybe I should explain ..a rep deals with dealers...they deal with the public..

When you guys want to compare apples with oranges ..then this conversation is valid...

Do you understand my point?

PS: no one uses a 16 track recorder on a gig....but the idea is for the studio , where production may be the issue...including video..

Forget the arranger only concept...and broadening the whole idea..Like I said it isn't for everyone..

As for Mark's view of styles and mine...I don't think we are in disagreement..we both think they need to be addressed, to compete with what we are use to hearing on the Top arrangers..

Before judging attitudes ...read your own postings, and maybe we won't have to respond...I still have this , "I have my buddies back" syndrome...
Didn't mean to get you guys riled up, but you had it coming....alright just one...




[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 12-18-2006).]

Top
#165512 - 12/18/06 11:52 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
I have said it before, I will say it again.

From a pure SELLING viewpoint, Dom should stick with the architecture/development/support of his company's keyboard, he is doing an excellent job. In the latest months he has made strides in delivering the goods, offered new features, new sounds etc etc.

Now for the SALES part, the one that connects with customers, builds relationships, trust, showcases the product, attracts customers, and last but not least, opens pockets and gets checks signed, he should hire someone else. IMHO, Dave McMahan of GEM should do nicely. In my eyes he is a pro, and Dom is in need of a pro in that area.

Dom, a mediocre product can sell well in the right hands. A suberb product, in the wrong hands, will not. Please listen to what people/potential customers say.
Theodore

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 12-19-2006).]

Top
#165513 - 12/19/06 06:39 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
richard_shiflet Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/04
Posts: 172
Loc: Greenwood, SC -USA
I havent responded to this thread yet because I have been very involved in a major remodeling job at home, and have had little time to invest in the petty squabbling I have read here. But at this point I feel compelled to give my opinion. I have been a reader of this forum for many years and a member also posting for almost 3 years. I joined this forum for the exchange of information and fellowship with others who share my primary interest, arranger keyboards and music.

I really appreciate this forum and have gained a lot of good info, plus made some great friends. But there is one thing that I have found particularly bothersome. As soon as some threads start to become a good source of info some people throw a wrench in the gears by starting arguments. This results in a good thread becoming a fighting match because not many people can resist jumping in to a scuffle. But those searching for information are thrown one more stumbling block to learning what they need to know.

The first page of this thread started off great with Fran being asked how he likes the Mediastation so far. With all the interest that has been shown the Mediastation, I would think this is a question many people would like to have more information on. But instead of encouraging more information to be given, it degrades into debates on peoples opinions of keyboard weight, Domeniks temperament, and Lionstracs lack of a proper Marketing and public relations department. This only stops the flow of information and that is bad for everyone, except for those who just want to argue.

If you think that the Mediastation is the best thing that ever happened to arrangers or the worst, then you feelings can be either confirmed or refuted by more information. Isnt that what we all want??? So doesnt it make more sense to allow the information to flow so that not only you, but also others can make up their own minds?

I first learned about the Mediastation from this forum and was the first person in the US to purchase one. I have the first X-88 Pro that Lionstracs built. Prior to my purchase I had quite a struggle gaining enough data to make my decision. As you may know there are not a lot of sources available, outside of the Lionstracs website. This forum became the best secondary source I could find. But every time I begin to learn a few new facts about the Mediastation, the focus would again shift to peoples opinions of personalities and not to the topic of the technology that I so desperately wanted to learn about.

I am very happy that I was able to sift through the contention and strife and read enough between the lines to decide that this was the keyboard for me, despite all the negative comments from people who really had nothing of use to offer. Domenik and I have since become very close friends and I am able to get the info I need from him, but there are others who are where I was one year ago. Trying to gain the information they need. In consideration of them I wish we could see less confrontations and more info and opinions from people who actually have something to offer.

As far as the weight of the keyboard goes, you cant realistically expect a small company like Lionstracs to offer every variety and flavor of keyboard builds. They have decided to give two sizes, 76 semi-weighted and 88 fully weighted hammer action. I feel that the weight of the X-88 Pro is about right and I have no complaints. As a matter of fact If Domenik had made the Mediastation to be a lightweight plastic 61 key workstation, I would not have been interested in it, and to suggest that the few wanting this option is the view of sz is completely in error. I have been doing live performances 1 to 5 times per week almost every week for about 22 years, and using arranger keyboards to do this for about 18 years. I started with the Korg I3 and midi-ed it to a Roland RD300 when no 88 key arranger was available. So for 22 years I have carried an 88 key, hammer action keyboard, weighing about the same as the Mediastation but with much less features. Even my GEM sk880 Powerstation weighs about the same as my mediastation.

It is probably easier to make a light weight keyboard with embedded keyboard parts than using standard desktop PC parts, but I am glad the Mediastation is constructed as it is. I can go anywhere and find the parts to either upgrade or repair should it ever be necessary. I have upgraded my X-88 Pro to a AMD Athalon 4200+ Dual Core processor so I feel very confident in the future of my Mediastation. I am very satisfied that I have made the right choice for me.

And Id also like to say that I find the comments about Magica Alfas English insulting. This is an international forum and I am glad to have sz members willing to attempt English even though it is not their primary language. In the case of Magica Alpha it is his third and I have no problem understanding what he is saying. I admire him for that. I think a little understanding could serve us all well.

Squeak, I agree with you, many of us have anxiously awaited a workstation / arranger / computer hybrid and complained because no one would attempt it. Now that some one designed one we complain about any rough edge that is not fully polished. No wonder no one else would try it.

My Mediastation sounds great and I wouldnt trade it for a Tyros2 and a Pa1x pro combined, though both of these are great keyboards. I also prefer it to what I know of the wersi, though I highly respect that keyboard as well. It is just right for me. Everyone has to make up their own mind

I hope that Domenik will continue to share info with this forum, and that Fran will continue to give us his thoughts, as he becomes more familiar with it. I am conversing regularly with Fran and Mark, offering any assistance as they learn a new OS. I also talk with Magica Alpha often and have found his technical expertise to be very valuable to me. With Ensnare you, Dan, Domenik and a few others we are becoming an active and supportive user group.

Also to Frankeive I am in SC on the east coast of the USA though maybe still a long way from you. If you were passing through my area I would be glad to arrange a demo for you.

Richard Shiflet

Top
#165514 - 12/19/06 06:51 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
As always Richard - you make great sense...
I for one fully appreciate the help and assistance you have given me - this is a different arranger/workstation and I for one am glad that I have stuck with it ..I am now starting to see the real benefits of the Mediastation - I have said it many many times - if you don't want a Mediastation then don't buy one
Mark
Quote:
Originally posted by richard_shiflet:
I havent responded to this thread yet because I have been very involved in a major remodeling job at home, and have had little time to invest in the petty squabbling I have read here. But at this point I feel compelled to give my opinion. I have been a reader of this forum for many years and a member also posting for almost 3 years. I joined this forum for the exchange of information and fellowship with others who share my primary interest, arranger keyboards and music.

I really appreciate this forum and have gained a lot of good info, plus made some great friends. But there is one thing that I have found particularly bothersome. As soon as some threads start to become a good source of info some people throw a wrench in the gears by starting arguments. This results in a good thread becoming a fighting match because not many people can resist jumping in to a scuffle. But those searching for information are thrown one more stumbling block to learning what they need to know.

The first page of this thread started off great with Fran being asked how he likes the Mediastation so far. With all the interest that has been shown the Mediastation, I would think this is a question many people would like to have more information on. But instead of encouraging more information to be given, it degrades into debates on peoples opinions of keyboard weight, Domeniks temperament, and Lionstracs lack of a proper Marketing and public relations department. This only stops the flow of information and that is bad for everyone, except for those who just want to argue.

If you think that the Mediastation is the best thing that ever happened to arrangers or the worst, then you feelings can be either confirmed or refuted by more information. Isnt that what we all want??? So doesnt it make more sense to allow the information to flow so that not only you, but also others can make up their own minds?

I first learned about the Mediastation from this forum and was the first person in the US to purchase one. I have the first X-88 Pro that Lionstracs built. Prior to my purchase I had quite a struggle gaining enough data to make my decision. As you may know there are not a lot of sources available, outside of the Lionstracs website. This forum became the best secondary source I could find. But every time I begin to learn a few new facts about the Mediastation, the focus would again shift to peoples opinions of personalities and not to the topic of the technology that I so desperately wanted to learn about.

I am very happy that I was able to sift through the contention and strife and read enough between the lines to decide that this was the keyboard for me, despite all the negative comments from people who really had nothing of use to offer. Domenik and I have since become very close friends and I am able to get the info I need from him, but there are others who are where I was one year ago. Trying to gain the information they need. In consideration of them I wish we could see less confrontations and more info and opinions from people who actually have something to offer.

As far as the weight of the keyboard goes, you cant realistically expect a small company like Lionstracs to offer every variety and flavor of keyboard builds. They have decided to give two sizes, 76 semi-weighted and 88 fully weighted hammer action. I feel that the weight of the X-88 Pro is about right and I have no complaints. As a matter of fact If Domenik had made the Mediastation to be a lightweight plastic 61 key workstation, I would not have been interested in it, and to suggest that the few wanting this option is the view of sz is completely in error. I have been doing live performances 1 to 5 times per week almost every week for about 22 years, and using arranger keyboards to do this for about 18 years. I started with the Korg I3 and midi-ed it to a Roland RD300 when no 88 key arranger was available. So for 22 years I have carried an 88 key, hammer action keyboard, weighing about the same as the Mediastation but with much less features. Even my GEM sk880 Powerstation weighs about the same as my mediastation.

It is probably easier to make a light weight keyboard with embedded keyboard parts than using standard desktop PC parts, but I am glad the Mediastation is constructed as it is. I can go anywhere and find the parts to either upgrade or repair should it ever be necessary. I have upgraded my X-88 Pro to a AMD Athalon 4200+ Dual Core processor so I feel very confident in the future of my Mediastation. I am very satisfied that I have made the right choice for me.

And Id also like to say that I find the comments about Magica Alfas English insulting. This is an international forum and I am glad to have sz members willing to attempt English even though it is not their primary language. In the case of Magica Alpha it is his third and I have no problem understanding what he is saying. I admire him for that. I think a little understanding could serve us all well.

Squeak, I agree with you, many of us have anxiously awaited a workstation / arranger / computer hybrid and complained because no one would attempt it. Now that some one designed one we complain about any rough edge that is not fully polished. No wonder no one else would try it.

My Mediastation sounds great and I wouldnt trade it for a Tyros2 and a Pa1x pro combined, though both of these are great keyboards. I also prefer it to what I know of the wersi, though I highly respect that keyboard as well. It is just right for me. Everyone has to make up their own mind

I hope that Domenik will continue to share info with this forum, and that Fran will continue to give us his thoughts, as he becomes more familiar with it. I am conversing regularly with Fran and Mark, offering any assistance as they learn a new OS. I also talk with Magica Alpha often and have found his technical expertise to be very valuable to me. With Ensnare you, Dan, Domenik and a few others we are becoming an active and supportive user group.

Also to Frankeive I am in SC on the east coast of the USA though maybe still a long way from you. If you were passing through my area I would be glad to arrange a demo for you.

Richard Shiflet

Top
#165515 - 12/19/06 06:58 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding4 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 113
Loc: england
I aplogies if my comments have ofended anyone or obstructed them in finding out more about the MS . That includes Fran and Dom

Thanks for the reality check Richard.

Regards Spalding

Top
#165516 - 12/19/06 07:07 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
I'm having a problem understanding why there is all this intense emotional attacking and defending here. I've heard enough testimonials here about Dom to accept that this man has a lot going for him, so i don't have a huge problem with his temperamental nature, or lack of tact. People like Dom who are brilliant creators are entitled to
a wide berth. The rest of you who are standing up for the
MS in the face of what you perceive to be attacks on it are the real problem. Instead of MEDIATING, and helping Dom see the other side, which he definitely needs to do to be as succesful as all of us would like him to be, you are adding fuel to the fire, and unlike Dom, who can offer technical explanations from the horse's mouth (and also sometimes from the horse's ass lol) it is not inappropriate for him to feel emotion re criticism of his creation, but your emotions are misguided, misplaced and do more to hurt the MS cause than help it.

As far as I can see, there are those who are saying they need more and better styles and more and better arranger functions from the MS, or they don't have an incentive to buy it, and those like myself who are saying they need to have a lighter version of it or they don't have an incentive to buy it. Either the MS can be adapted to fill one or both
of those quite legitimate real-world needs, or it can't. In this case none of us are sure if can't just means won't...
because someone who wants/needs more arranger functionality and better syles ootb doesn't want to be told
he's an idiot who doesn't know apples from oranges, and someone who wants/needs a lighter kb doesn't want to be
told weight is no big deal, lighter means crappy.



------------------
Miami Mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165517 - 12/19/06 07:19 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
So let me ask this, can the MS read Yamaha styles or any other styles or must they be converted first? It seems someone could write a program like OMB using all the MS dedicated keys and button's?
If the styles need to be converted can they be converted with one of the available style conversion programs.
And also isn't converting styles a big pain, I think I have read here before that a lot of people just don't think it is worth the trouble.

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 12-19-2006).]
_________________________
qqqwq@hotmail.com

Top
#165518 - 12/19/06 10:43 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165519 - 12/19/06 12:05 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Fran
Not impressed with the piano or sax voices used, and I also thought the B4 sounded a touch harsh, the style seemed fine for general use, not as sophisticated as Tyros 2 but they can sometimes be over the top.
Overall for an off the cuff (So to speak) performance it seems fine.
BTW you will find that for backing (And a lot of solo work) Akai samples will be as good as any. (The advantages of High End VSTs tending to get lost in a mix)
Look forward to some more songs, particularly when youve got the Mediastation optimised.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165520 - 12/19/06 12:22 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165521 - 12/19/06 01:23 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in......!

I am not going to make ANY comment about the RH voices' quality - the playing was so poor as to make quality moot. Fran, you've always stood up for your buddies when they were a bit brutal to other posters, here. I hope you can take what you dish out....... That demo is one of the best reasons to not buy a MS I have yet heard. It makes the factory ones seem amazing!

Look, everyone reading this thread, download Fran's demo, and laugh your a$$es off......!

Not only, unfortunately, is the playing terribly amateurish, but if you actually CAN get past that, and listen to the style underneath, there are all sorts of weird jumps in the guitar voices, jerky chord transitions (listen at :45), strange variation choices (probably Fran, but who knows? listen at 1:10) and fills that sound confused and poorly mixed.

Of course it's possible to play a LOT better than Fran's example (I've heard better from Fran in the past) but the style itself....... Other than the silly talk about weight going on endlessly here - look, everybody, there are arrangers from the Big 3 that weigh as much, nearly, as the MS, so don't all pile on Domenik for that one..... bitch at Roland for the E80, bitch at Korg for the PA1XPro (plenty of you have THOSE...) - no, the STYLES is what I've been talking about since the beginning of this thread........

Does ANYONE here think that that style was anything but a dog.....? That's all I've been saying since the start. Domenik, I've heard better, smoother transitioning styles on a Casio (no offense to you Casio people!). Who cares how good the lead voices sound, with backing like that?

And Fran, you should be ashamed...... after all that time extolling how good the G1000 was, directly compared against T2's and Korgs etc., and now you are touting that awful style against even your old G1000....? I think Fran's found the Emperor's New Arranger.....

Domenik, if I were you, I would email Fran and tell him to NEVER post another pile of dog doo like that again. You are doing your best (I really AM interested in the MS, and am only waiting to hear the new styles with VST and GIGA to see if you CAN make it better than the T2 et al), but that demo didn't help at all. In fact, it only confirms what we've all been saying to you (except the weight thing!) all along;

The MS is, indeed a HYBRID. it is trying to be an arranger AND a workstation. Currently, it is an amazing workstation, and a lousy arranger (only because of the styles, but hey, what else IS an arranger about, primarily?). When it is an amazing workstation, AND an amazing arranger, I will buy one...... Until then......

----------------------------------------------------------

I apologize to all in this post about how harshly I have taken Fran to task about that awful demo, but after his insulting comments to us all here, and staunch support of his 'friends' that also think brutal honesty is acceptable commentary, I am SURE he will forgive me for responding in fashion.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165522 - 12/19/06 01:32 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Nick G Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Fran please don't take offense, I am not picking on your playing ability, as I understand it was a once over live take.

But from that demo, the sound quality does sound worse than your G1000.

Those drums, that guitar strum and tacky sax and piano. Sounds like it was done on an old Casio.

your right not being able to compare the MS to most mid to top of the market arrangers because they absolutely put that MS sound bank to shame.

This would have to be one of the first times I highly agree with Diki.
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

Top
#165523 - 12/19/06 01:51 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Fran,

I must agree with Diki...the demo is not very impressive.

You could have been playing a very low end portable keyboard judging from what I heard.


Ian

------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

Top
#165524 - 12/19/06 02:20 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, NickG, but playing a gig IS playing a once over live take. If that is what Fran sounds like without SMFs to back him......

Sell your MS, Fran, and buy TWO G1000s (one for backup!). You sounded SO much better before.....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165525 - 12/19/06 03:03 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
its almost like being in the twilight Zone...

I dont know how the MS can recover any respectability after that. Surely it must be a better idea to drop the "arranger capability " aspect of this work station until all the glitches and poor styles have been sorted out and focus on the work station side. When the arranger function is sorted then simply relaunch it. But selling it like it is seems to me to be a fatal mistake and almost fraudulent. This is nowhere near the best arranger on the market. We are not comparing apples with pears. More like apples wih lemons....

I was going to go see the Jonesyboys MS which he kindly said that i could but with the genuine respect to Jonesyboy i can see now that i would be wasting both his and my time.

I am not going to comment on frans playing. Just his judgement. Do you really want potential dealers to hear that ?

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-19-2006).]
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165526 - 12/19/06 03:08 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Nick G Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Sorry, NickG, but playing a gig IS playing a once over live take.


yes that is true I agree!
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

Top
#165527 - 12/19/06 03:28 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Spalding1:

I was going to go see the Jonesyboys MS which he kindly said that i could but with the genuine respect to Jonesyboy i can see now that i would be wasting both his and my time.


Please don't let that demo stop you from seeing the Mediastation in person. I won't comment on Frans demo other than to say it is not representative of what the Mediastation truly sounds like. See the Mediastation in person and judge for yourself. If after seeing and hearing it first hand you don't like it, then comment about it.

Top
#165528 - 12/19/06 03:56 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165529 - 12/19/06 03:59 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Ensnareyou, would you care to have a crack at posting a small demo of your MS, just to take the taste of that last one out of my mouth?

If Fran's doesn't in any way represent what is capable, would you care to post something that IS.......?

No pressure, I won't flame it (you haven't gone out of your way to insult us here!), but as I said - as one of the few here that HONESTLY is interested in a MS, I really need to hear some examples of stuff I can't already better with my current rig. I have B4, Ivory, DFH and BFD, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere and several others already on my studio computer system, so I am already aware of how good those can sound, I am primarily interested in hearing styles that YOU consider adequate, and the way that the MS handles fill boundaries, and very slightly late chord input.

Roland do some very clever tricks with portamento (set to zero) to compensate for slightly late (or even just on the beat) chord changes, and I'd like to hear how well the MS's engine copes with that. Some of the weirdness of Fran's example came from problems there, I think, but I'd like to hear more unedited style play to get a better impression.

Thanks, in anticipation......
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165530 - 12/19/06 04:06 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
i play for fun fran.I am not a pro. Sounds like you and i have some things in common

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-19-2006).]
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165531 - 12/19/06 05:15 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
OK, Fran, you asked for it

I loaded up the G70 Factory UPS (this is how it comes OOTB), I then picked a completely random style (even closed my eyes when choosing!), set the G70 to default setup, Arranger easy setting. and then just used whatever OTS for each variation the factory supplies.

This should be the experience of anyone opening up the box and playing the G70 for the first time.

I then improvised a short piece (no idea where I stole the changes, I got confused towards the end!) simply changing OTS to change sounds and variations at the same time, and improvised the solos on the top. ALL live, no overdubs, no editing, no nothing... One take, no do-overs, no rehearsal! You can hear my f*ckups loud and clear, no CraigUK tricks here.....!

If I were editing, I would have dropped the reverb a tad, but I repeat - this is totally OOTB, just like your demo, OK?
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=FB3EDD9C14C64642

Now when the MS's styles sound better than this, you tell me, OK?

And when your goods match this, you can come jam with me.......

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-19-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-19-2006).]
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165532 - 12/19/06 05:45 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165533 - 12/19/06 05:48 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Musicman22 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 298
Loc: Boynton Beach, Fl.
Diki

Very nice playing and improvisation. Your instrument sounds terrific.
Now THAT'S playing.

Peter

Top
#165534 - 12/19/06 05:50 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165535 - 12/19/06 05:52 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Very nice Diki...great improv.

Ian

------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

Top
#165536 - 12/19/06 06:10 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Thanks, everybody.

That took me ten minutes from start to post.

Fran, I went out of my way to do NOTHING that a first time user wouldn't do. Familiarity had nothing to do with it. I picked a random style hit the OTS button and started playing. There are absolutely NO non factory edits, nothing other than hitting OTS1 (which turns sync start on automatically) and playing. Just like you, or anyone else here at SZ pulling it out of the box for the first time would do.

You've had your MS for how many days? And still can't even find the volume faders? I never touched mine for this demo, I wanted you to know this is OOTB.

I am sure so many of our members could do as good (or better!) with just about any modern arranger out there. The T2 would have a field day with the guitars, and sax sounds, the Korgs have great synth sounds and percussion. I am not saying this is the be-all and end-all of arrangers.

BUT...... it blows your MS away (for now!). Hopefully, Domenik is reading this (still bored?) and can now see the problem. Get your styles to this level, and the west will beat a path to your door (with me in the front!).

And yes, it would have been nice to put a repeat of the changes on a Chord sequencer and REALLY open your eyes to what you can play with two hands.

Domenik.... if you can add a clone of the Roland Chord Sequencer to the MS's OS, I will buy one tomorrow (and I know of at least two others who'll join me!). How's that?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165537 - 12/19/06 06:13 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Oh, and it was Sunshine Bossa, in the factory Bossa/Samba bank.

And that pain in your.... throat just might be some crow, sticking there.....

You know I love you, man, but let's all lighten up a bit here, OK?

Happy Holidays.......

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-19-2006).]
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165538 - 12/19/06 07:09 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165539 - 12/19/06 07:18 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4716
Diki,

My E-50 sounds very much like your G70. I am a happy camper and know very well that I could take this board live, no problem.

Thanks for the song.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/Zed 6FX/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Yamaha PSR SX900/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Senn 935/K&M stand/Shure SM57/Sony C80 (2)/Blue Encore 300

Top
#165540 - 12/19/06 07:55 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Thanks, Fran, I know it seems like a thankless task, but so few of these MSs are out there, ANY user demo provides information. Unfortunately, that information is not good news for potential customers, yet.....

How about a few that you just play the style section, no right hand at all..? I am still interested in hearing how well the MS's OS handles fill transitions, and slightly off-time chord input (and we ALL do that from time to time!)....

How about picking what you think is the BEST style on the MS and giving us a quick taster, Fran, rather than this random stuff? I KNOW you didn't buy this thing just for B4.....

I can only imagine how much better the MS will sound once you can address VST and GIGA from the styles and SMFs (he's been selling it for HOW long without this basic ability?!!), but a polished turd is still a turd.... the styles themselves have got to be better than these apparently ripped-off public domain stinkers.

The big 3 probably spend as much on style development as Domenik has in his entire budget, and this is a steep hill to climb, but hopefully, the next batch will impress more......

Oh, and NO OTS....? I didn't know that (or no simple chord types, though I never use those). I guess the one thing I'm learning is how difficult it must be to design good arranger software and styles as good as the majors. I always used to bitch about how expensive arrangers are compared to their more capable workstation cousins, but if it is this hard for Domenik to get the styles right, no wonder we pay more for good arrangers than good workstations!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165541 - 12/19/06 08:36 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Everybody that's posted on these 3 pages.....please tell me I'm not loosing my mind! I read a lot of mean comments and digs at each other here and thought perhaps I was dreaming this whole topic. But then I downloaded the 3 songs and I hear and see them on my computer. I'm not questioning the performances but I'm listening to some keyboard, I think owned by Fran, and I haven't heard such bad sounding voices and styles since my first arranger products came into my store.
It reminds me of when I used to post about how much I didn't like the Technics keyboards because I thought their cymbal sounds sounding so bad compared to the competition. Tonight, I thought the drums, the sax, the piano, etc. etc. etc. and the style were just awful. I heard glitches in the style in both songs. PLEASE tell me I'm just dreaming this whole topic up in my head. It just doesn't make sense to me that I could be listening to a modern up to date keyboard. I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone but all you have to do is listen to how poor the quality seems to be of these instruments and styles.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
(Retired 2021)

Top
#165542 - 12/19/06 08:54 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
nope George. You are not dreaming. apparently this is the future of arranger keyboards. I have been told by a reliable source.Apparentley he's a really nice chap and he is supplying another 300 or so of these styles for free shortly... I cant wait !

Did you actually buy the MS Fran or was it given to you to demo by Dom as rep for him ?I really dont think you need to post anymore styles as the hole being dug here in terms of the MS is probably beyond recovery anytime soon (not to mention your own judgement in the quality of musical instruments you back above others).

I tell ya , i dont understand this reverse marketing strategy at all, insult your potential customers, ignor their comprehensive and useful comments wishes and give them the poorest styles you can find for free ? No wonder there is a lifetime free updating policy with the MS ! Apparently it seems to boost oriental sales of this machine....cant see this marketing technique catching on in the west some how .....

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-19-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-19-2006).]
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165543 - 12/19/06 10:47 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
I really don't understand why Fran have posted the Styles of 2 years ago and he know that he have the OLD soundbank GM 24Mb only, without the GM Realdrums...

Anyway, i make just now some new example of some styles that the other MS have basically installed and they can play too with the 64Mb GM soundbank, I think sounds here are totally different from Fran styles...
http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/16soul.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/blues.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/chacha10.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/chacha6.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/mambo1.mp3
http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/dancecar.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/mediumr1.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/dancefun.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/funky12.mp3 http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/styles/2006styles/chicdance.mp3

The new styles will be available only when we will release soon the new LS 4.0, OS Update ISO 1.4, then we remap the all styles under GIGA format only.

Top
#165544 - 12/20/06 12:03 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi All
How about something different
A friend of mine gave me some G70 styles which he had converted using the universal styleworks program and without doing any editing, so I just thought I would post one.
All the sounds are GM (Styleworks choice)and use the OAS 6 software that was released in early 2004, (Must find time to upgrade to OAS 7) so doesnt come close to the sounds in OAS 7, but I thought I would post it for a bit of fun, seeing as its almost Christmas.
Enjoy

Bill
http://rapidshare.com/files/8236032/Sunshine_Bossa.MP3.html
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165545 - 12/20/06 04:56 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Fran,

I'm sorry my friend, but this second demo is not much better than the first.

I just had a PSR-E403(entry level) keyboard on my Yamaha sample account, it sounds much better than the Mediastation....sounded so good I nearly purchased it, but my budget wouldn't allow it at this time.

I sure hope the Mediastation gets better styles, and improved voices, or I'm afraid it will be a losing proposition in today's market.

All the best,

Ian

------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

Top
#165546 - 12/20/06 07:41 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
For Open System Keyboard comparison, follow the link below
Enjoy

Bill
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/014692.html
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165547 - 12/20/06 10:56 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
MUCH better demos, Domenik, but until you start to get velocity switched drums in there (presumably not used much, yet?) there is a lack of dynamics that all other high end arrangers have, especially Rolands (IMHO).

Mediumr1.mp3 is a case in point. Absolutely robotic in feel, have a listen to those snare fills. No dynamics at all, sounds like a drum machine from the 80's.

If you map that style to a good GIGA drumset, it is still going to have no dynamics. The whole point of multi-velocity drums is that no two hits sound identical. And as it gets louder, it's timbre changes. If the style has no dynamics in the first place, you are going to have to completely re-work it to stop even a GIGA kit from sounding 80's. Best to do the work now.

Have your style developer run those drum parts through a GIGA kit BEFORE he signs off on it, if that is going to be the basis for styles in the future, It will save you a lot of work down the line.

And did I get you wrong, or are you going to be able to use VST as well as GIGA for the styles in the future? Your last post only mention GIGA. I'm a huge fan of BFD, and would really like to be able to use it live!

On the whole, I thought those styles you posted were a big improvement on what Fran is posting (please stop him from messing your business up any further than he has already done!), but in all fairness, they still don't compare to the T2's or Roland G70/E80's. If you presume (probably very likely) that most potential buyers of an expensive arranger like the MS (of course we will want it fully loaded!) already have home systems capable of VST, GIGA and recording, etc., the only thing we are likely to need the MS for is to be able to go out live and do the same thing. But until the styles are BETTER than Roland and Yamaha, most of us probably consider the styles to be more important than the sound they are played through, given how good the T2 and E80 already sound, and are going to prefer great styles over great sounds.

I don't know if your eastern or middle eastern styles absolutely rock! or whether the bar never was that high in the first place, but here in the west, you have a tough job to better your competition in that primary need. Don't give it second place to any other priority. It is the ONE thing that will determine if you succeed or fail in the arranger market...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165548 - 12/20/06 11:24 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Abacus..... pretty good for a conversion (although it is using the count-off sticks instead of a real sidestick), but in all fairness (again) it didn't sound any better than my G70, despite the Abacus being nearly twice the price.

That's the nature of diminishing returns - the better the Big 3's arrangers get, the harder it is to justify paying double or more for something that only sounds 25% better (or whatever % better you think it is).

I'm also getting a little tired of the software arranger people touting 'open' systems as being the ONLY way to get improvements in their hardware. In the 16 months I've had my G70, Roland have come out with TWO major upgrades, adding several previously unthought of improvements (another mode altogether - Guitar Mode - and now the ability to put a parametric EQ on every single Part) along with numerous OS improvements and bugfixes. Not to mention minor upgrades that squashed bugs and changed some OS features at the users' requests.

I know it's not the same as OAS, but it IS a major step forward, at no cost to the user at all...... The sound of the G70 is now considerably better than when I bought it, and it works far better too (some of the OS improvements were added at the request of just one user!). So, although they are not as public about it, Roland's R&D team seem to be responsive, not Domenik's sole domain.....

Anyway, rant off! Thanks for posting, everyone. You can't make up your mind just TALKING about these things.... you have to hear it to believe it.....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165549 - 12/20/06 11:59 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
By the way, I just noticed that Fran has removed every single post he made on this thread, so those of you just starting to read this thread are now just going to have to imagine the confrontational attitude he took.....

Have the guts to stand by what you post, or don't post it at all.....

If Domenik asked you to take down the examples, you could have just removed the post with the link to your demos, no need to take your ball and play somewhere else.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165550 - 12/20/06 01:31 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
To Dom.

Those demos were much better than the ones fran posted. I think that they are at least useable. You must think that arranger musicians are areally tough crowd to please and tne truth is we are. I liked the styles but they were sort of lifeless in terms of dynamics as Diki has already said. One of the problems is that GM sound sets will almost always sound inferior to the proprietory sound sets of yamaha, roland and korg etc. They lack that sparkle or crispness.The guitars bass and drums in particular just screem GM. The only way you are going to be able to demo the true potential of your instrument and really convince me that the MS is the board of the future is if you use VST's and Giga instruments in the styles just like you have been saying the instrument can from the outset.

Can you tell me ( if you are still talking to me) if the new OS upgrade coming will automatically remap and eq any new styles that get imported into the MS or will the user have to do this for each and every new style that he imports?

Top
#165551 - 12/20/06 01:32 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA


[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#165552 - 12/20/06 01:38 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Nigel looks like this topic is going south real fast......get the padlock ready...
it always amazes me when things get so argumentative when players dont own or have ever used some gear .....besides some of the older gear works very proficiently......
I wish people would put more effort into better playing technics then worrying about whats the newest & best is....it all means nothing unless your good enough to make it sound that way....gear will ALWAY be changing/improved after all its just an electronic box full of circuits and wires with keys....the continuing whats better arguments are really getting boring....
isn't this the time of year to be Merry?
Could have fooled me...

Top
#165553 - 12/20/06 02:27 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
It's the same old mine is better than yours so I must be better than you....
_________________________
qqqwq@hotmail.com

Top
#165554 - 12/20/06 02:34 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
keysvocalssax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 845
Loc: Miami FL nov-may/Lakeville CT ...
dnj: right on, bro.
mo
_________________________
Miami Mo

Top
#165555 - 12/20/06 02:37 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
I see why they call you "Diki"..

If anyone needs me I will be in my room...better class of people...


Tsk tsk....

Ian



------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

Top
#165556 - 12/20/06 02:39 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2814
Loc: Xingyi, Guizhou (China)
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeathome1:
It's the same old mine is better than yours so I must be better than you....


Right on, Mike.

It's pleinosis, zoilism, zelotipia, invultuation, zelotipia and kakorrhaphiophobia all in one.
_________________________
最猖獗的人权侵犯 者讨论其他国 家的人权局势而忽略本国严重的人权 问题是何等伪善。

Top
#165557 - 12/20/06 02:42 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I rest my case, Fran. If your only refutation of the valid points we all made here is to remove all your posts (apparently too embarrassed to have anyone read them?) and then start slinging insults at my name (I call myself Diki, my parents preferred Richard!), enjoy your room....

As long as you are by yourself, you won't have to worry about replies to your insults. Just remember, YOU were the one who came out shooting, first. Isn't it amazing that those who like to dish it out are often the ones who can take it the least.....

Domenik....... are you REALLY sure you want this guy representing you?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165558 - 12/20/06 03:32 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
dont close this thread yet nigel.Despite the antics of some , we are finally getting to some kind of conclusion here about the theory behind open systems and their practicalities . Please keep the thread open

Dom it seems to me that the only real way to demonstrate the Unique Selling Proposition of the MS or Wersi for that matter is to demonstrate the instrument as you have before using the exact same styles but using Giga and or VST sounds in place of the current GM sounds.GM sounds will almost always sound inferior to a proprietory manufacturesr tweaked balanced sound engineered sounds. Your styles were let down by lack lustre drums,brass,guitars,etc.It seems to me that the Unique Selling Proposition of both the wersi and the Abacus is the ability to substitute the boards preset sounds with better quality VST/Giga sounds . So why dont you try this for us.

Substitute the sounds on the styles you previously posted in this thread with the best that you have in giga and vst and repost them on this thread . Same for abacus and the style conversion of the G70.Post them in this thread so that we can hear for ourselves a direct comparrison of what it sounded like before using the "open Capabilities " and after. Will better sounds make the converted styles sound any better ? I believe this is the crucial bit of information that this whole debate has been alluding to but not tied down. Both open and closed systems can accept converted style files but its the prospect of using better sounds that make the open systems appealing to me.

Are you up for it dom and abacus ?

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-20-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-20-2006).]
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165559 - 12/20/06 10:59 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hello Spalding
I would love to do as you ask, but with the Day Job and other commitments (A lot of the posts I actually do when there is a short lull at work) I just dont have the time, (A lot of days I dont even have time to switch the keyboard on) particularly as it takes a considerable time to re-edit the style, (Styleworks is OK for conversions but there is still a lot of work involved) and then you have to sort out the sounds.
The above also explains why my web site gets updated so slowly.
When I find the time I will upgrade to OAS 7 and OAA which have a massive amount of new features that make what you require much easier.
Have a good Christmas

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165560 - 12/20/06 11:17 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
No worries Bill i appreciate your response. Have a great Christmas. So i guess its just up to you Dom ? or Any of the other MS owners that have the time or inclination. This excesise would settle the matter for me.

Any takers ?
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165561 - 12/21/06 12:48 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hello Spalding
Just remembered, Daniel Watt www.danielwatt.com uses the Wersi OAS Expander (Basically the Ikarus without keyboards) in all his performances these days, (Controlled by his old Wersi Spectra) including extensive use of Akai and VST Instruments, so if you pop over to his site there are some short samples from the CDs Pavanne and Aquarius that feature them which you can have a listen too. (The software is OAS 6 as he has only just recently upgraded to OAS 7, so he has not yet featured it)
Wish I had thought of this sooner, as he was playing down at Kingswinford a month or two ago, which may have been within easy travelling distance for you. (He also uses 2 Bose L1 speaker systems for the sound)
Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165562 - 12/21/06 06:47 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Quote:
Originally posted by Taike:

It's pleinosis, zoilism, zelotipia, invultuation, zelotipia and kakorrhaphiophobia all in one.[/B]


Taike,
where did you find these words? They all sound Greek, except invultuation. I know what zelotipia means, but what about the others?

Top
#165563 - 12/21/06 06:47 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
Oh man !! Kingswinford is easy travelling distance to me !! Maybe next time , i would be happy to travel and hear what the instrument can do live. Thanks for the heads up anyway !

Top
#165564 - 12/21/06 07:04 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
pleionosis -The habit of exaggerating one's own importance

zoilism - carping criticism; detraction

kakorrhaphiophobia - fear of failure

Ian

------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

Top
#165565 - 12/21/06 07:18 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
abacus, does wersi have a homepage? when I searched all I found was fan pages.
_________________________
qqqwq@hotmail.com

Top
#165566 - 12/21/06 07:25 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Wersi Web Site: www.wersi.de

Wersi USA Web Site: www.wersimusic.com

Top
#165567 - 12/21/06 07:36 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
LOL Ian!
Thanks,
Theodore

Top
#165568 - 12/21/06 07:53 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Mike
Here are some links http://www.wersi.net/ http://www.wersimusic.com/ http://www.harmony-music.co.uk/wersi.htm

Have also uploaded some info here (The usual site is down at the moment) http://rapidshare.com/files/8414596/OAS_Details.pdf.html http://rapidshare.com/files/8414597/World_of_OAS_1.pdf.html

The full details of the Open Art Arranger are not out yet, but one of its features is the Direct Play of all Yamaha styles without conversion
You can also have a look at my web site that I am slowly building www.wersiabacus.plus.com

Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165569 - 12/21/06 08:43 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
thanks for all the links I'm interested in reading more about this instrument and could not find a company web site, at least one I could read.
thanks guys I'll check these out.
_________________________
qqqwq@hotmail.com

Top
#165570 - 12/21/06 09:20 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Amen to that website....

What's up? Is Wersi's bottom line so poor, they can't afford to have their website translated into English? Kind of arrogant of them to ignore the language of one of their potentially biggest markets, and the second language of nearly everybody else.....

Maybe if they want to be taken a bit more seriously in the US, acknowledging that we don't speak German over here would be a good start. Imagine Yamaha's sales if they didn't have a web presence in English.......

The easiest and least expensive way to get interest in a product is to have a website in the language of the potential customer. Abacus is fighting an uphill battle against a company that doesn't care if we are mostly in the dark about their products.....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#165571 - 12/21/06 10:50 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
jonesyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 104
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
This will help - but no English web site probably a poor move...they should really be shouting to the UK/USA Markets and any other English speaking countries about their products if they are serious about developing in these countries/Markets..
Hope the link helps,
Regards
Mark! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]Amen to that website....



[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 12-21-2006).]

Top
#165572 - 12/21/06 11:11 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Hi Mike
Here are some links [
Have also uploaded some info here (The usual site is down at the moment) http://rapidshare.com/files/8414596/OAS_Details.pdf.html http://rapidshare.com/files/8414597/World_of_OAS_1.pdf.html

The full details of the Open Art Arranger are not out yet, but one of its features is the Direct Play of all Yamaha styles without conversion
You can also have a look at my web site that I am slowly building www.wersiabacus.plus.com

Hope this helps

Bill

I found the downloads most helpful thanks so what does the abacus cost? you may email me if you like.


------------------
qqqwq@hotmail.com
_________________________
qqqwq@hotmail.com

Top
#165573 - 12/21/06 01:09 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Mike
I notice from your profile that you are in the US, so you will need to get in touch with Wersi in Lancaster, PA, as I am in the UK and simple currency conversion doesnt work. (Prices always seem to be lower in the US)
However if I can be of any other help just let me know

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165574 - 12/21/06 02:48 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
Thanks for those links Bill. I need to clarify my understanding of how many VST sounds the Wersi can hold at any one point in time.Am i right in my understanding that it can hold a maximum of 4 VST's at any one point in time ? does that mean for example that you could have a VST bass , drums, guitar and piano in lets say style 1 but would be limited to use the same VST's in style 2 if you chose to use VST's?

If thats the case it makes the whole open system USP much weaker than i first thought as i would not necessarily want to use the same VST sounds in every style and certainly not want to be limited to just 4. Is there any particular reason for this limitation ? I understand the limitless updating angle of open systems and that the functionality of the board can be developed in the future without buying new hardware in terms of a board with keys but in terms of pulling the software and functionality together , are'nt you still tied to the proprietory manufacturer in terms of future functionality of the board ?

If i have misunderstood this can you helpme out ? I could find no data on the cost of updating to OAS7 (and no demo's of what the new OAS7 does ) but i read that it does come at a cost. Whilst i believe that this is a more sustainable business model for Wersi going forward, the MS promises that all future updates will be free to MS users. Whilst that does not mean a whole lot right now it could be a real deal breaker in the future once the MS has sorted out its current problems. Any idea what the cost of upgrading to the OAS7 might be in 's.

Top
#165575 - 12/21/06 03:43 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 541
Loc: Australia
Thanks for all the (constructive) input in this thread guys - I've found it VERY enlightening as I too am interested in the MS for my next keyboard.

This Question:

"Am i right in my understanding that it can hold a maximum of 4 VST's at any one point in time ? does that mean for example that you could have a VST bass , drums, guitar and piano in lets say style 1 but would be limited to use the same VST's in style 2 if you chose to use VST's?

If thats the case it makes the whole open system USP much weaker than i first thought as i would not necessarily want to use the same VST sounds in every style and certainly not want to be limited to just 4."

needs to be answered quickly and properly (IMO) as this is THE most important info I've seen in regards to the sounds and flexibility of the MS.

VSTs and Giga Sounds are all very well, but if you can only use them in a very limited way, then............
_________________________
God I hate signatures.

BUT...

www.chi-chi.com.au

Top
#165576 - 12/21/06 04:38 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
The Wersi can host 4 VST's at once although that does not limit you to four VST sounds at once. If for example your VST is multitimbral and is 64 voice polyphonic, you could theoretically play many sounds from that VST up to the maximum polyphony. The Wersi is unique in that once VST sounds are loaded into the sound banks, it does not differentiate between VST, factory, AKAI, or other third party sounds, it just sees a VST sound as if it were a factory sound. Want to play a VST sound, just hit the appropriate sound bank your favorite VST sound is loaded into and its there. The Wersi can support more than 4 VST's but in OAS 7 the host for the VST's has four VST slots. There are ways to work around adding and using additional VST's but processor speed limits the number you can run effectively. Its reported that some user have run as many as 16 VST's at once using Cubase as the host.

The Mediastation can host far more VST's than the Wersi (up to 64 I believe) but that is all in theory. Which VST you use, how much processor power and RAM it needs, and the type of sound files you play will greatly diminish the number of VST's you can run at once. It doesn't matter if the VST's are playing back from a Wersi, Mediastation, NEKO, or your home computer, all are limited by processor power and RAM.

The Wersi OAS 7 upgrade from OAS 6 is around $700-$800 USD. If you have an older version of OAS you might need to upgrade some hardware therefore the upgrade would cost a bit more. The price is very reasonable considering you are getting a VST host, new sequencer, many new sounds, new styles, new FX, new Real Drums, a VST analog synth emulator, FM synth, Wavetable synth, improved B4 interface, and a much improved sampler. In fact all the original OAS 6 factory sounds have been resampled to utilize the new and improved sampling rate of the OAS 7 sampler. You get all that plus much more. Its definitely a major jump from OAS 6 and well worth the cost of upgrade.

Top
#165577 - 12/21/06 10:36 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Yes you are right
All depend how much ram and CPU power you have installed in the MS.
IN the MS don't give a limits to hosting VST, we can open how many we like, here one small example: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/vst.png http://www.lionstracs.com/store/vst-free-p-142.html http://www.lionstracs.com/store/msiso-14-p-152.html

About the styles under VST is a totally different stuff, it is possible of course but then need to remap the sounds styles under the VST opened. It mean that you have to change the Program change/Bank of each pattern to the right sound of the VST.
IF then you will recall this VST styles and you don't have run before the all VST setup used for this style, will NOT work.

For that we prefer use only GIGA sounds from the GigaLibrary folder because Linuxsampler is always RUN, will hosting the all GIGA sounds available.
In this way when you switch in realtime the styles you will always find the all sounds working.

Not well understand why Wersi still use the Cubase seq for hosting the VST and not another open VST host. I tough that under native Windows is possible open how many VST in realtime we like instead the MS use a emulation Windows under Wine support that is able to run up how many VST we want.
I'm NOT criticize the Wersi at all, I really like a lot this keyboard too and I know how much hard is developing OS with a closed windows source, where sometime is not possible fix bugs or limitation features because they don't have the OS souce code.

Try to understand our position too, we are a fresh company that in less 3 years we have developed all the software missing in one keyboard workstation. All the others brands have more than 20-30 years story and they can recycle/update the all stable embedded software for a new keyboard model.
Do not think that they have to remake always from scratch the software for make a new model, they have only to adapt the software to the new hardware.

If I like to make a new MS expander with small dimension, we have only to copy the MS OS in the new expander system and ignore the all hardware not used for this product. In 3 months I have developed the X-88 piano, this mean that if I like, I can develope in some months the expander too, BUT we recycle the all available software.

I think you have understand what I mean.

Top
#165578 - 12/21/06 11:47 PM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Spalding1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 236
Loc: birmingham,england
Thanks for that Dom and Ensnare you. So if i have understood this the following is possible on both the wersi and the MS
1. You can have installed and available potentially more than 4 VST' sounds on the machine at anyone time subject to polyphony limitations (in case of wersi) and CPU capabilities and Ram
2. Selecting the VST's in normal (eg. piano mode ) is relatively easy to access and use.But selecting sounds to use as arranger backing is much more complex but theorectically possible. From what you are saying dom it sounds like you have managed to deal with Giga sounds more effectively (at least in theory) so that they can be played and used just as a proprietory system would use them and i am keen to see a demo of this .

Either way both boards currently are not ready to play VST's or Giga sounds within styles the way that ordinary arranger players would like to use the sounds. And only the MS has definate plans to be able to play giga samples within styles like an ordinary arranger player would use them but does not do so yet.

If i have understood this correctly then really this needs to be made clear from the outset otherwise customers ready to buy either board right now based upon the theorectical technological potential of the MS or Wersi will get a rude awakening when they actually play the unit.

Thanks for that info on the cost of the OAS7. So in theory updateing the keyboard with the OAS7 plus aditional hard ware purchases could be just under $1000 USD ?

I understand that you are getting a lot for that jump in functionality but i think that the idea of free life time updates via MS would be infinately the more sensible way to go providingthat open systems can actually do what an aranger player wants (at least this one)now as pposed to some time in the future

Last bit comment from me.

Sounds like both Wersi and MS potentially are amazing instruments but their practical use for arranger players is suspect (at least as far as i can see)

The clincher for me is whether the steep learning curve necessary to use either the MS or Wersi is worth the effort based upon the improvement in sounds and styles.

This is why i would love for wersi and MS to repost the styles they have done in this thread using their best giga /vst sounds wihin the styles so that i can hear ( as best as i can from demos on the net ) whether the improved sound is worth the future uncertainty,cost and effort.

Uncertainty = neither manufacturer has provided demo's actually showing the use of the technology that it is theorectically capable of.I am not impressed with the support/responses from either wersi or MS when making queries about the instruments. I would still be reliant on the maufacturer to provide future updates to pull the technological improvemnets toegther in a form a musician (not a technician) can use.

Cost= both instruments are a good chunk of money especially the wersi

Effort= they both sound pretty complicated machines although the increase in potential would be worth it but i have to get past all this "theorising" and see how the reality of the instrument plays out in the hands of a "competant" musician.

Still hoping either Dom or any other MS user would follow through on this request regarding reposting the styles...

Sorry for the long post.

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-22-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Spalding1 (edited 12-22-2006).]
_________________________
dont quit.......period

Top
#165579 - 12/22/06 12:47 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Spalding1, you still don't have understand how the MS is working, no problem, I try again to explain you the MS concept.

MS is READY right now to play in the arranger GIGA files OR connect the arranger to one VST plugin too.

In the last OS 1.3, we still available to load GIG or GM/GS DSP sounds for each midi track in the arranger.

After you have load one style, we can press EDIT: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/styleedit.png
there whe choose one of the 12 possibile sounds setup of each styles, it mean that we can have more soundset setup for each styles and choose what is the best for this performance.
after you have select one preset sound setup you get the Channels UI: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/channels.png
There you touch the desidered miditrack to edit, for example Bass under GM/GS DSP: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/chaedit.png
and you choose from the DSP GM the sounds that you like, edit the all values and press ENTER to SAVE it.

IF you dont like have the GM/GS DSP sound, you can press the key GIGA and you get this UI: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/gigapara.PNG
there you can browser from the HD GigaLibrary the xxx.gig file that you like and link the track to play with this file. In this mode, the linuxsampler will load the giga sounds and then play it, more BIG is the file, more seconds you have to wait before the all tracks are playing., Normally with 6/8 GIGA sounds of about 100Mb, need about 1 second to be ready.

Now, in the NEW OS 1.4 we have the Linuxsampler 4, with the GM/GS Soundbank: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/LSampler4.jpg
It mean that we can have READY the all GIGA sounds from the list is realtime, withot latency for loading it, because we can choose if the sound MUST persistent in RAM.
In this way the new LS 4 is working like the GM/GS DSP, the all sounds are always present like a normally expander with Prg/Bank selector.
with this new feature we can open noow this UI: http://www.lionstracs.com/data/gui/gigags.png
when the two keys GM/GS and GIGA are ON, we read the sounds from the GIGA soundbank in realtime without any latency.
This is the BIG features that only the MS have.
Now, after we release this update ( for free of course) you can map yourself the all T2 sounds under GIG format.
You have to insert in the soundbank the same sound of the T2 with the same Program change and Bank select how you have in your T2.
After you have done this, Load in the MS one T2 styles ( converted by EMC Export to sequencer patterns) and the MS will play the same sounds, because with the same Prg/Bank saved in the style will send it to the GIGA soundbank and the LS will respond with the same sounds that you gave before.
The only work that you have more to do is levelling the volumes how you like.

Let me know if you have understand..

Top
#165580 - 12/22/06 01:02 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hello Spalding
The polyphony of the VST is limited by a combination of the VST itself, the CPU and Ram, and not by Wersi. (The large VST sample sets normally have around 256 note polyphony)
Once the VST is loaded in if you wish to use it in the styles you follow this procedure.
1. Select your style
2. Press Quick Edit on the Main Screen
3. Select the voice you wish to change
4. On the screen that appears select the voice you require. (If you require sounds just from the VST, select this in the drop down Window )
5. Save the style in one of the User style banks
6. Map this edited style to a style button. (You can also use the Quickload button on the Main Screen, as each Total Preset (Registration) can store up to 9 different styles)
7. Done. (Whenever you select this style the VST voice will be included)
The Wersi system is designed specifically for ease of use, and in a lot of respects is easier then the PA1X, but not quite as easy as a Yamaha. (If Yamaha do one thing well then ease of operation is it)
All New instruments come with OAS 7 as standard so you will not need to upgrade.
Cost to existing uses (OAS 6) is 370 + Fitting (An Internal Plug- in board has to be changed to run OAS 7)

Lionstracs
You only needed to use the Cubase VST host up to OAS 6, it is not required for OAS 7, however if you upgrade, Cubase is still left loaded into the system, and so can still be used.
Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165581 - 12/22/06 01:16 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
i think i do. so in a pattern or style (which in tyhe MS can have up to 12 isntruiments) any or all of the instruments can now be either a mixture of GM and Giga or VST of the users own choice. It would be simply a matter of the user revoicing all the uinstruments from a converted style to suit their own tastes. I think i get it. And these changes can be saved permanatly after the machine has been switched off ? so over time you could build up a library of styles composed entirely of giga or vst samples.

Has anyone with the MS actually done this so that i can hear it ?

Sorry Billjust saw your post. So where does the 4 VST limiyt come into play with the Wersi or have i completely misunderstood ?

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 12-22-2006).]

Top
#165582 - 12/22/06 03:07 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hello Spalding
You can only use 4 VST Plug-ins simultaneously, Such As;
B4 (approx 110 sounds + User, and free use as if it was a B3 Organ)
Pro 53 (Approx 100 sounds + User, and free to use as a Prophet Synthesizer)
Kontakt 2 (Sample Player/Editor) (Number of sounds limited by available Ram)
The Grand (Steinway and other Top Piano samples)
If you wish to use another then you have to replace one that is already there, however I believe (I am on OAS 6 so not totally sure on OAS 7) they can be stored in Presets, so that when you select the Preset the appropriate VST Plug-ins are loaded automatically. (There are also VST Hosts that are themselves Plug-ins, so if you understand what you are doing, more then 4 can be loaded)
VST Plug-ins were originally designed to be used in studios, and the engineers new what VST Plug-ins could be combined and not overload the computer systems, however as Arranger/Organ players are not studio/computer engineers, Wersi put a safe limit on the number of VST Plug-ins that could be used simultaneously so that that the users do not run into problems. (As faster CPUs and Ram drop in price and become the standard in the instruments, then Wersi will increase the number of VSTs allowed, but always making sure that they will not cause problems, even to a beginner)
This is one of the advantages of Wersi. In that there OS is designed even for people who have never played an Arranger/Organ before.
As an Example
If you went to a friend who had one, and he had loaded Akai samples, VST Plug-ins etc.you would find it no different to playing your PA1X, but the sound quality would be just like you hear in films, or in live performances.
Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#165583 - 12/22/06 04:26 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Spalding,

Any system that utilizes VST's is limited by the RAM, CPU speed, and therefore polyphony is not infinite... it is not limited to Wersi.

In OAS 7 the Wersi has four slots for VST's but the sound engine itself is already running integrated sound emulators in the system. They include FM synthesis, Analog synthesis, Wavetable synthesis, and stereo sampling with GIGA and Kontakt playback functions. Any of these sound generators including VST's can be used in styles.

If one were to use an additional VST Host such as Cubase you could effectively run many VST's but eventually if you run too many VST's, you will tax the system. I'm not sure how many sounds you need but with the Wersi's factory sounds (nearly 1 GB worth), synthesis, sampling, and other synth capabilities, I seriously doubt you are going to need to run more than 4 VST's at once. Out of the box the Wersi sample library far exceeds anything I've heard from Roland, Korg, Technics, Ketron, or Yamaha. FYI... I have the Wersi Abacus Duo Pro, Mediastation X-76 Expanded, and Korg Oasys so I can listen to these side by side and compare sounds easily.

The way in which Wersi has integrated VST's into the system makes it as easy to use as pushing a few buttons. Load your VST sounds into user memory, save them, then you never have to think about it again. Just press the appropriate sound button and your VST sound is there.

The Mediastation also works in a similar manner. You use LinuxSampler to load GIGA or Kontakt files, save them, then just recall them by selecting sounds buttons. Not difficult by any stretch.

I'm not really sure why you and others feel the Wersi and MS are not capable arrangers and lack the features necessary to be top arrangers? The Wersi currently is more capable than any other arranger or workstation on the market. The Mediastation has far more features than most arrangers and workstations but it is lacking in a few areas. Domenik is already working to resolve this with an upgrade that's just around the corner. Domenik has always delivered on his software promises so I have no reason to doubt he's not going to follow through with it now.

If Wersi and Lionstracs are guilty of anything its that their limited sound demos don't show off the true capabilities of thier systems. So many people have commented how the Mediastation sounds are worse than a cheap PSR but I can tell you first hand that's not the case. Sure, some of the GM/GS sounds aren't great (no one arranger has incredible GM/GS sounds), but the synth and sampled sounds are top notch. The GIGA sounds are fantastic. Don't take my word for it, go to GigaStudio or Kontakt web site, listen to any of the GIGA or Kontakt sample sounds, then realize any of these can be utilized in the Mediastation or Wersi. Tell me what arranger from Yamaha, Roland, or Korg can compete with those types of sounds. Even my Oasys which is an awesome synthesizer workstation can't come close.

These systems can be as complex or as simple as you want them to be. The beauty of an OAS style system is that you can make it anything you want, you aren't limited to what the manufacturer gave you OOTB. Because of cost and feature set, these types of arrangers are not for everyone.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 12-22-2006).]

Top
#165584 - 12/22/06 04:42 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by hellboy44:
VSTs and Giga Sounds are all very well, but if you can only use them in a very limited way, then............



Hellboy,

The VST's are not limited in the way you are thinking. I find it odd that you're worried about limitations of VST and GIGA yet most people own arrangers that are completely fixed when it comes to adding new sounds, features, etc. I'll gladly take a system that has some new capabilites than one that has none. Thankfully the Wersi and Mediastation are not lacking in sound and style production capabilites and are continually upgradeable.



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 12-22-2006).]

Top
#165585 - 12/22/06 07:16 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
Hi ensnareyou. and Bill Thanks foryour explanation of the capabilities of your instruments. The reason why i have reticence ( and i have a feeling many other people) in buying into either product or the concept is the lack of any reasonable demos, any written explanations or promtional literature anywhere either by the manufacturer ( i have spent a fair bit of time on both maufacturers websites )or from a dealer ( I got a demo CD from the Wersi dealer that was 4 years old and it sounded very poor) Existing users, or support groups . The best explanation of these products has come in the last few conversations on these threads and neither of you are employed by the companies involved and not the manufacturer who i would have thought have a vested interest in explaining its own products.

I hear the explanation but i have to admit that if i have not been able to play one of these instruments , or hear a decent demo its really unlikely i will take the plunge and buy one until i know that other arranger players have done so and report back their satisfaction with the arranger element. I would stil love for someone to repost the converted styles in this thread so that i can hear what the real differnce is in sound

If Jonesy boys offer is still open i will go and check out the MS once the latest update has been done. I dont have the opportunity to try out a wersi unless there are any owners here lurking who live in the Westmidlands UK ?

Top
#165586 - 12/22/06 09:58 AM Re: Fran how is the Mediastation so far....interested in your opinions?
Scott Langholff Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3163
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
I was only able to hear Miami Beach. Could someone send me the other 2? Does anyone have a copy of all posts on this thread?

Thanx
Scott

scott_langholff@yahoo.com

Top
Page 1 of 16 1 2 3 15 16 >

Moderator:  Admin, Diki, Kerry 



Help keep Synth Zone Online