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#7023 - 08/07/06 03:37 PM Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
I was just on the VSE BBS, and found a thread on buying older gear. A gentleman was asking if it was worth buying older gear? Me personally, I am through with buying older gear. My Omni is 30 years old and is acting a bit tempermantal, so is my poly-61, which is 24 years old. I have already spent a bit of money on getting the omni fixed once, and I really don't feel, like getting the omni fixed again. Besides, with the advancement in software, I could find a virtual version of an ARP synth, for less then the price of getting, my omni fixed.

Not only that, but the advancement in digital technology, is astounding, and synths tend to hold up better then they used to. Well, better the most eraly analog synths. But, this is just my oppinion.

[This message has been edited by analogcontrolfreak (edited 08-08-2006).]

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#7024 - 08/08/06 07:12 AM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
To answer your question I too have given up on bying vintage gear. Older synths can mean anything. So I guess you meant vintage. The oldest vintage synth I have is a DX7 and that pretty much has the insides of a remote control or a calculator. Because it is basically a calculator.
TO be honest I'm a little tempted by revived Prophet 5s, used ARP Solinas, SH-5s and stuff like that but I know what owning a vintage analog synth is all about and I quite frankly just don't have the drive. Not that I don't have the ear to tell a real analog synth from VA but the othenticity isn't worth the hassle for me.

-ED-



[This message has been edited by 3351 (edited 08-08-2006).]
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#7025 - 08/08/06 07:27 AM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Did not realize I said: " I really don't feel, like getting fixed again."

BTW: I edited my post.

Yeah! I meant vintage.

[This message has been edited by analogcontrolfreak (edited 08-08-2006).]

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#7026 - 08/08/06 07:37 AM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Just edited mine too.

Talked to my dealer. He's checking if he could order the DSI evolver right now. I think I made up my mind.

At least the latest reply from Access inspired me to. No more waiting.

-ED-
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7027 - 08/08/06 11:39 AM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Yeah, I'd go with the DSI Evolver, instead of waitng on the TI.

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#7028 - 08/08/06 12:27 PM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
My dealer cannot order one for me. I found the store that can and it will still take several weeks for the Evolver to ship. BTW I'm getting an Evolver keyboard but not the poly version. The Poly Evolver is too expensive for a four voice synth.

I'll place an order tomorrow at the latest. Stil haven't canceled my TI order but I think I have plenty of time to do it. It will be months and months before Access will ship. If ever that is. I think they are going under. Just a feeling I get. Long production delays usually mean trouble. Especially with small companies like Access.

Okay. Will keep you posted on my progress with DSI. BTW the desktop model is pretty inexpensive. Same features but only 8 knobs. Anyway, just a thought. You may hate the thing.

-ED-



[This message has been edited by 3351 (edited 08-08-2006).]
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
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#7029 - 08/08/06 02:07 PM Re: Buying older gear.
freddynl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 1150
Loc: netherlands
Ed
The acces virus T1 is normal in stock in several shops in europe.
_________________________
Keyboards/Sound Units: Kurzweil 2600S, Roland VR-760, Acces Virus C, Roland G-800, Akai AX60, Minimoog, Machine Drum, Roland R8-M, mediastation x-76

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#7030 - 08/08/06 02:47 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Yeah, I was notcieng that the desktop model, which was the frist Evolver, is really cheap. The reason why it is rather inexpnsive, because it only has 8 knobs, plus fewer features then on it big brothers. The polyevolver rack is slightly cheaper then the Poly eveolver keyboard, minus the knobs.


If, I were to get another hardware synth, I would consider getting the Alesis ION. I always thought that was a cool synth. Also the MS2000. Oops! I'm getting ahead of myslef.

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#7031 - 08/16/06 05:54 PM Re: Buying older gear.
MORPH! Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 296
Loc: Laguna Beach, California, Unit...
My oldest synth is an SH-7. I don't play it much but it is in great shape (probably because I don't play it much). I'm not a collector either, I used to use it but not anymore. The filters just seem so "jappy" to me these days. I think my hearing is becoming more sensitive as I know for sure that my eyesight is getting worse.
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#7032 - 08/17/06 01:54 AM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Yeah Morph,I hardly play the omni, well not that I ever "PLAYED" it, never knew, how to play a string synth? The real reason for buying the Omni was, back in the late 1990's, during the vintage synth revival. Plus I got a good deal on it. As for the Poly-61, that was only because, I never could find any information on the Poly-61 on the net. So I started to post info on it. Eventually starting my own web site, on the Poly-61. Which is being tempermental at the momnet.

I decided just a few months ago, to try my hand at soft synths. Bought one of KORG's latest controller keyboards. However it is being held up by KORG, and has not been released yet. Was supoosed to be released back in May of this year, then July, and now it looks like August. I really wish I knew what was going on?

[This message has been edited by analogcontrolfreak (edited 08-17-2006).]

[This message has been edited by analogcontrolfreak (edited 08-18-2006).]

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#7033 - 08/18/06 02:41 PM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Ugh.. Just saw a PPG 2.3 on eBay and almost bought it. Just as I was 'bout to press "Buy it NOw" I noticed that it only ships to the US.

Otherwise I'd have a real 2.3 again. This sucks.

Still waiting on that TI and trying to decide whether to get the DSI evolver now or later. I've been saving up to add some synths to the studio for a while now and that PPG looked good. THe price wasn't the greatest (over 2K) but it's something I would get any time.

I have the software PPG 2.V but the filters are nothing like the real thing. Envelopes too.
Well, I guess it just wasn't meant to happen.

-ED-
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
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#7034 - 08/18/06 03:50 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Maybe next time!

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#7035 - 08/18/06 04:08 PM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Yeah. May be. I'd rather find one here in Ontario though.

BUt this is funny. TI is taking forever to ship. DSI is a bitch to order because of local dealers. PPG can't be shipped to Canada.

If I didn't know better I'd say it's a bad dream I'm having. LOL

-ED_
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
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#7036 - 08/18/06 04:30 PM Re: Buying older gear.
MrEd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally posted by 3351:
Yeah. May be. I'd rather find one here in Ontario though.

BUt this is funny. TI is taking forever to ship. DSI is a bitch to order because of local dealers. PPG can't be shipped to Canada.

If I didn't know better I'd say it's a bad dream I'm having. LOL

-ED_


Hey Ed, I think I have your problem solved.

Strike a deal with Flavie.

Flavie mentioned that after numerous years of him and the wife performing on the cruise ship circuit, they are settling down in Canada, I think Toronto area.

Tell him what you are looking for, at what price. If he finds it, he brings it in as a piece of own equipment.

In return, you find him some numbers or contacts where he can get some jobs lined up in the area. Its a beautiful thing for all

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#7037 - 08/18/06 04:38 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
To bad you don't live in the US. We have, Musicians Friend, Sweetwater, Sam Ash, Guitar Center, Same Day Music, ZZounds, AMS(American Musical Supply). These are just the ones I can think of, off the top of my head. They all do mail order as well.

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#7038 - 08/19/06 06:46 AM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Well, I'm not that far away really. I'd say 2 hour drive.
Most stores you've mentioned ship to Canada. I'd rather buy localy though. Just so I don't have to ship the unit forth and back in case I need it serviced or replaced.

Usually local stores are pretty good with stuff like international orders etc. It's just that there seems to be this odd situation with Access. For months now...

I've e-mailed Access support and hopefully I'll get some answers. If not, I'm ordering the DSI evolver and moving on.


-ED-
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7039 - 08/19/06 07:25 AM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Quote:
Strike a deal with Flavie.

Flavie mentioned that after numerous years of him and the wife performing on the cruise ship circuit, they are settling down in Canada, I think Toronto area.

Tell him what you are looking for, at what price. If he finds it, he brings it in as a piece of own equipment.

In return, you find him some numbers or contacts where he can get some jobs lined up in the area. Its a beautiful thing for al


May be my memory is going or I've had too much beer but who's Flavie? Where do I find that fella?
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7040 - 08/19/06 08:10 AM Re: Buying older gear.
MrEd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 519
Ed
Here's a link to Flavie's post in General Arranger. A while back, I was interested in posts about Ketron XD3 and thats where I got to know about Flavie. Him and his wife were entertaining at the time, before they added other performers to the show. I enjoyed talking with Flavie thru email. He's a good guy. In his link, he is asking for the help of Canadians in lining up some work in Canada, where he has established citizenship.

If you have any info or recommendations, I know he will be grateful.

Flavie's "Canadians Please Help" posting

His website and email should be in his profile if you come up with anything.


[This message has been edited by MrEd (edited 08-19-2006).]

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#7041 - 08/19/06 11:08 AM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
I wonder why, Access is taking so long?

[This message has been edited by analogcontrolfreak (edited 08-19-2006).]

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#7042 - 08/19/06 02:06 PM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Quote:
Originally posted by analogcontrolfreak:
I wonder why, Access is taking so long?

[This message has been edited by analogcontrolfreak (edited 08-19-2006).]


There are lots and lots of rumours. I've posted this question several times over at the Unofficial Access Virus TI Forum but didn't get any helpful replies really. One of the Access guys (Marc) basically suggested that I get in touch with canadian distributors and Access support. Duh... I've already done that and if that's all he could say I think there's something fishy there. Until I have some answers I can only guess but I think the demand is too high and Access just can't keep up. Just my guess.
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7043 - 08/19/06 07:21 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Yeah, well I'm still trying to figure out why it's taking KORG so long, to put their new K61 keyboard controller out? I mean how long deos it take to make a keyboard controller?

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#7044 - 08/20/06 06:54 AM Re: Buying older gear.
MORPH! Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 296
Loc: Laguna Beach, California, Unit...
I heard this from someone and I have no factual basis of it, but it seems like there may be some truth to it regarding production of electronic musical instruments. Keyboard production by manufacturers is supposedly somewhat similar to other higher end item manufacterers in that there is a timing involved with the release of items due to several factors. Releasing a new product costs money that carries a higher risk factor.. Manufacterers try to minimize this risk as to not release an item "ahead of its time". New item sales must exceed, or at least be close to a manufacterers "old faithful" product's sales in order to be successfull in the continuence of its production. Unfortunately, in other words, production is not done in the spirit of the items functionality or purpose. Instead, it is produced in the spirit of business, or more specifically, its profitability. Where I see the truth in this is the fact that; no matter how great an item may be, if it does not meet the current trend of functional use or needs, its chances for continued success are minimal because it will likely not generate enough sales to pay for the costs of initializing its existance into the marketplace. This explains all those items that were produced for 1-3 years or so and then were dropped in production only to wind up 10 years later in insatiable demand. Planting a seed you they hope will be a cucumber but only winds up a coctail pickle that later on miraculasly becomes the watermelom everyone wants. As much that manufacterers desire to take the credit of great pioneering items, very rarely does a new truly great product hit the ground with its feet running in high profit mode. The more common instance is the item becoming buried in promotional marketing costs for at least the first year of its production and does not see black ink in its production until a year or two later, and that is a successful item. This may help us understand why these manufacterers throw the seeds of promotion out way ahead of time; before the prints are approved for production in any great quantity, and also why they wind up releasing items late of their scheduled availability date. All manufacterers want to be known for their great pioneering achievments in their industry, but not at the cost of their existance.
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#7045 - 08/20/06 03:58 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Okay MORPH, but why would Korg, advertise a new keyboard, that was introdued back in January, at the 2006 Winter NAMM show, but not release it until August?

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#7046 - 08/21/06 11:12 AM Re: Buying older gear.
MORPH! Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 296
Loc: Laguna Beach, California, Unit...
Roland pulls the same shot with their new products. Providing that Korg is not having problems in its production, it is not a very cool thing to do, but what it does do is put a high spike in the initail sales of the item which makes it more likely for its continued survival. It is not a very good business model to follow because it pisses people off and comprimises the integrety of a companies word. When they say it will be ready at a certain time, add 6 months to that date. You're not the only one who dislikes it when they do that. Roland released the dirt box VP-9000 almost a year late. Many people got so fed up with waiting that they just got something else. I should have too. I got one and was real dissapointed. It does all it says it can do, as long as you don't mind the dirt it adds to the effects as well. Whoever listed the noise specifications for that device needs to recalibrate their equipment.

Pete
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MORPH! Sound

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#7047 - 08/21/06 01:10 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Well, I'm starting to have my doubts with KORG. It is rather, frustrateing to pre-order a product only to find out it won't be released for sveral months. I just hope when my K-61 does finally arrive, I am not dissaponinted. I have also noticed, that, these companies have not produced a synth with a "WOW" Factor. Other companies, have fallen into the same area, as the Big 3. Clavia introduced the NORD Lead well over 10 years ago, and that was a break through synth, for the time. But I haven't seen, another synth like that. They Just kept updateing the same synth. Oh sure, they made the Nord Stage, but even that is being repackaged now as well. Even Access, I have not seen them come out with a "wow" synth. The whole virus line seems the same. I have a feeling Waldorf will do the same as well. Kurzweil, now that they are back in business, are still making updaeted versions of their earlier keyboards. Although, about a year ago, they were going to make a VA synth, but that fell thoguh, due to finacnal issues, with in the company, plus they were not sure if they were going to survive, but they have.

At least Alesis introduced a few WOW! Synths, like the Andromeda, ION, and now Fusion workstations. Oberheim had the OB-12, but I don't think it was well received.

Ensoinq had a unique idea, with the FIZMO, but they got bought out by E-mu. Of course they have not made a "WOW" Synth either.

I was happy, when Moog Music, became a company once again, and I am glad they did make a new synth. I just wish they had come up with something new, other then updateing the Minimoog. Although there are people who love the fact Bob had done this, and made his company successful once more. I will also, admit that the new Little Phaty is different.

I will give Dave Smith credit, for comeing up with a whole new synth, instead of updateing the Prophet 5.

I know there were a few times, when a comapny made a synth, that had a major impact on the world. ARP: had the odyssey, Moog had the Mini,E-mu, the Emulator Ensoniq had the Mirage, and ESQ-1, Clavia the Nord Lead, Korg the M1, Roland the D-50 and Yamaha the DX-7, Alesis, the Andromeda.

I am getting the feeling that KORG, ROLAND, and YAMAHA, are more content, to just keep updateing the same keyboard, over and over again. Either that or I am becoming jaded with these companies, for not making something really new.

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#7048 - 08/21/06 04:46 PM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Actually Access Virus TI line is pretty ****ing "WOW"!!!
At least when compared to the Virus classic and the Virus C.

Clavia Nord modular and modular G2X are a hell of a lot more than just repackaged Nord Lead. Too bad Tek isn't here to give you a well deserved spanking.

Roland V-Synth is just amazing - period. I can't use one to it's full potential because of my visual disability. But if it had a less 'visual' interface I'd get one right now.

DSI Evolver is pretty impressive too. I was simply blown away with all the demos. Sounds bigger and more advanced than any mono synth I've ever used. THe Poly Evolver is indeed overpriced and not worth the money but the Evolver keyboard and desktop are definitely on my wanted list.

There are a lot of "wows". I'm just fed up with all the teasing and waiting.

Just got an e-mail from Access support. They claim that they are expecting TIs to ship at the end of the month. If it's not here on september 1st, I'm pulling the plug. They can tell their stories about TIs "coming soon" to someone else. I've had it.

Waldorf are indeed continuing with some of their product line. They have announced the release of some new synth for the NAMM 2007 but there are no details of any sort. Will just have to wait.

So here you go. There are some good synths. Expensive may be. In some cases even terribly overpriced but that's always been this way.

BTW, Is that Korg you're waiting for *just a controller(? Because if it is there isn't much to be amazed/disapointed about. The software M1 LE that it ships with isn't worth the big wait. For the price you can get a 61-key CME UF series controller and a Korg Legacy collection pack.

I like CME. BOught one for my setup in the office. Feels just like the DX7. Way way way better quality KB than M-Audio stuff. Great bang for the buck.

cheers,
-ED-

[This message has been edited by 3351 (edited 08-22-2006).]
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7049 - 08/22/06 02:40 AM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Thanks Ed! Yeah, it's just a controller keyboard.

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#7050 - 08/22/06 05:40 AM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
How much is it?

-ED-
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7051 - 08/22/06 02:27 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
$179.99 from Sweetwater.

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#7052 - 08/24/06 02:49 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
Just got an email, from Sweetwater. My Korg K-61 just came in, and has been shipped. I will receive it, on Saturday August 26, 2006. Woo hoo!

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#7053 - 08/28/06 06:43 AM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
My K-61 arrived Saturday, but due to an illness, (cold). I have not had a chance to try it out until now. The keyboard is very lite weight, keys, feel like synth keys, and it's very esay to install. I put it on the keyboard stand, where the Poly-61 was sitting. The M1le software is a nice ssoft synth to work with, took a little while to figure out, how to work with it. But once I got it, it's reall not that hard to get around. Unfortunetly, I can not compare the M1-le to the M1, but I Korg did a good job, in recreateing the M1.

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#7054 - 08/28/06 11:54 AM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
I also have a bit of a cold. BUt no VIrus yet.

Few more days to go and I'm cancelling the order. I'm done waiting.

Hope you enjoy the M1 LE and eventually begin adding more software synths.

-ED-

[This message has been edited by 3351 (edited 08-28-2006).]
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7055 - 08/28/06 02:17 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
The included disk, even comes with demo versions, of the Korg Legacy collection. Along with demo versions of AAS's Lounge Lizard, String Studio and Ultra Analog. There are even demos of Reason, and Live.

I would enjoy these demos more, if my ears were not blocked at the momment. I hate being sick.

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#7056 - 09/12/06 01:45 PM Re: Buying older gear.
3351 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1194
Loc: Toronto, Canada.
Good news Paul,
I just got my VIrus TI. Currently just messing with it. Sequencing a little peace that sounds like "Popcorn". Just to see how well things work. So far everything seems rock solid. Occasional arp drift and hanging notes but nothing serious. Playing 'bout 9 parts total right now. THe sounds are huge so they take up a lot of space. In overall it behaves way way way better than my Waldorf MWXTs. At least concerning the issue with hanging notes. VOice allocation seems very good since I'm going crazy with polyphony here. I'm amazed at what this little box can do. Just hope it drops in price one day so more people can get a chance to own one.

I'm running it via MIDI only. DOubt I'll ever need to use VC (VIrus Control plug-in). I guess I'm not to keen on the whole 'total integration thing. The whole idea of streaming audio via USB 1.0 seems ridiculous to me.

So here you go, it's finally here and it's great!

-ED-
_________________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
- - - Oscar Wilde

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#7057 - 09/12/06 04:15 PM Re: Buying older gear.
analogcontrolfreak Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1531
That's great new Ed, I'm glad your enjoying you Virus. Yeah, Access makes nice synths, but they are, really expensive.

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