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#47005 - 07/30/07 06:29 AM Revisiting Basics
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3822
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I was thinking of different tutorials we could present at our Jam in March, and I thought of revisiting some old basics that some may forget to use.

I was preparing a solo presentation for my weekly dance and was looking at Atcheson,Topeka,and Santa Fe. Since it has two verses,bridge, and back to the verse for an ending,I decided to get out my foot controller and work on it. By using different lead instruments in each panel, and changing the variations in each, I had a good arrangement. The whole process took fifteen minutes.

I realize this is nothing new for most, but we might need to be reminded of the great tools we have at our fingertips.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Centerpoint Space Station

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#47006 - 07/30/07 07:12 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Bernie, What a beautiful start, let’s give it a title. “How to improve a song by using features on my keyboard”. And I feel it is important to stay to the basics.

John C.

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#47007 - 07/30/07 10:18 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Joan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Hampshire U.K.
Hi - I was thinking of mentioning this some time ago when I came across this specific feature.

We all have keyboards and possibly initially we explore some of the new features when we upgrade, never realising that there are probably features from way back that we never looked at anyway. I am certainly guilty of this.

Prior to my owning my KN7 I was not aware of this forum and I have looked at options on this keyboard that I would never have looked for had I not read about them here.

I was browsing through the SOUND EXPLORER recently because someone asked me if there was a particular instrument. I looked in the selection where I expected to find it in the Sound Group and it wasn't there.

I knew there must be one and so looked in the Sound Explorer. What a pleasant surprise! I had looked a few times for a specific instrument but never browsed much around it. I found quite a selection both Electric and Pipe Organs and there are quite a few piano sounds which I was not aware of - both in the Piano listing and under GM towards the bottom of the list. Strings galore etc., etc.,

Altogether loads and loads more sounds than you realise. Worth a look - If you only find half a dozen it is a bonus - you can always save them to your Favourites. Joan

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#47008 - 07/30/07 10:45 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
This type of information is exactly what we are aiming for at the Cambridge Convention in November, not so much for us loyal 'Techies' but to help and guide the next generation i.e: buyers of the second-hand Technics keyboards who may be a little perplexed by the technicalities of the keyboard.

Having said that, for me at least, even after 3 years of owning the KN7000, almost daily I discover something else new to me and this is what keeps me interested in my KN7s.

I shall look forward to other comments on this topic.

Audrey

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#47009 - 08/01/07 08:51 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Common knowledge, but not to all. “The Equalizer”

As a piano technician I have had the opportunity to hear the same piano in different settings. Each room or hall adds it’s own effect to a piano or a KN7000.

My questions;
1-Are you adjusting the Equalizer (Page 163 in your manual)
to get a desired setting?
2-If you adjust them to get your setting do you lose them when you turn on your keyboard?

I have a critical ear so I do use the Equalizer. After losing my settings each time I turned on the KN7000 I finally discovered Data Protection on page 184 in the manual.
1-Press Customize – right bottom of keyboard
2-Press Data Protection
3-Scroll to Total Equalizer – select ON.

Your settings will not change, they are now protected.

John C.

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#47010 - 08/01/07 02:23 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2198
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
Something I never use is "Composer Chord Map".
Am I missing something?
Would it help my playing sound better?




------------------
Larry
SynthZone Frapper
_________________________
Larry

" Always Do Whatever's Next "

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#47011 - 08/02/07 06:40 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
etwo4788 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 518
Loc: S.E. New Mexico USA
There is so much to learn & to share about the AWESOME 7K.....

Mine has been with me for a bit more than 3 years & like many of you I too "discover" new things about it, frequently as a result of exploring or sharing.

This forum is my absolute favorite & this is not the only one devoted to the 7K....So much information offered & knowledge shared.... I am so very appreciative as there is no one in my tiny little area of New Mexico who has a 7K or any Technics KB at all.

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#47012 - 08/02/07 06:52 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
etwo4788 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 518
Loc: S.E. New Mexico USA
Whoops! Pressed the wrong button!

Recently I received an SD card from one of the generous members who has posted above.....

I am so enjoying listening to the wonderful sounds & playing along....(when I can).... Additionally, it is great to explore how her music is set up... like what rhythms she uses, how she programs her Panel Memory & Sound Memory.... With her entire format available it provokes new ideas & I get real excited by all the wonderful information to be gleaned. All of this & a new musical friend additionally!

What my new friend has done for me is so special.... The next best thing would be to meet her and the rest of you at one of the gatherings that are coming up.....

Sharing your music via sharing your SD cards is for me, the ultimate way to go! I am working on mine for my new wonderful friend...

ELIZABETH

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#47013 - 08/03/07 01:14 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Wouldn't it be great, ladies, to have just one attendee at the Nov convention in Cambridge from across the pond...
Rog
_________________________
Roger M

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#47014 - 08/03/07 03:12 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3822
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
In regard to EQ, I play in different venues and sometimes I call up a registration that is not suitable. For example, I loaded an all piano that sounded great in my studio, which is a spare bedroom with carpeting. I play this in a bigger,livelier room and it is too brittle sounding. I compensated somewhat(post EQ) with my Bose, but suspect there is a better way to anticipate changes. The reverb needed lowering and the lows needed to be advanced.

I guess the point is that I need to look at the equalization on the KN7000, which I never have heretofor.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Centerpoint Space Station

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#47015 - 08/03/07 05:54 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
etwo4788 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 518
Loc: S.E. New Mexico USA
ROGER.....Two days is just not enough time with all of you to justify the expense of crossing the pond or even crossing the US....

A 7 day week would be a whole other consideration....

ELIZABETH

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#47016 - 08/03/07 03:14 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
Roger and I have 'crossed the pond' on two occasions, to attend the two-day 'Jams' in USA In fact, Roger has attended three Jams in USA !
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#47017 - 08/04/07 06:40 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
etwo4788 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 518
Loc: S.E. New Mexico USA
Some have deeper pockets than others....

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#47018 - 08/04/07 09:24 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Hi Elizabeth
Can you give me some ideas for what you'd like to pick up in a whole week - following on from Bernie and John's theme for this thread...
Rog
_________________________
Roger M

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#47019 - 08/05/07 07:39 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
etwo4788 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 518
Loc: S.E. New Mexico USA
ROGER..... Great question!

There is so much to learn about the awesome 7K. Though mine has been with me a bit more than 3 years there are things about it that I know nothing about though I have explored extensively & learned from others as well....mostly from all you wonderful "Zonies".

If there are more than a handful of attendees at the convention who are willing to share their knowledge of the 7K it surely would take longer than 2 days for each person to exhibit/share the following.....

1)How each person programs the 7K & how these personal choices serve their needs.

2)How each sets-up all the places next to the SD card slot, the Part & Global Effect areas, & why.

3)How each uses any/all the ancillary equipment plugged into the 7K.

4)Opportunity to load the programs everyone is willing to share to SD &/or Floppy...

5)Hear each person play their favorite pieces....

By participating in jams & in explaining what I do know about the 7K, it takes a long time for each player to showcase their personal instrument & to hear what they can do with it.

Maybe I am just a slow learner...or maybe I just don't exolore as much as is needed to find all the things I am interested in learning....

Thanks for your question Roger....

ELIZABETH



[This message has been edited by etwo4788 (edited 08-05-2007).]

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#47020 - 08/05/07 10:31 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
This is for Bernie9 and others. Don't rely so much on using your equalizer. In your case of the piano being too briddle sounding, (brilliant) use your PART SETTING to correct this. Use the piano sound you have chosen, click on PROGRAM MENUS, click on SOUND (top left) then click on PART SETTING. (top left) Go to Page 4 and go to BRIGHTNESS and lower the number to a sound that is more pleasing to you. Be sure and save it to your PANEL MEMORY or better yet, save it permanently in SOUND MEMORY.

Scott

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#47021 - 08/07/07 07:40 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
In your case of the piano being too brittle sounding, (brilliant) use your PART SETTING to correct this. Use the piano sound you have chosen, click on PROGRAM MENUS, click on SOUND (top left) then click on PART SETTING. (top left) Go to Page 4 and go to BRIGHTNESS and lower the number to a sound that is more pleasing to you. Be sure and save it to your PANEL MEMORY or better yet, save it permanently in SOUND MEMORY.
Scott
Scott, I agree but let’s look at the Global EQ from a different perspective.

1-A Mixer is a unit that many different plug ins. Microphones, CD player, amplified instruments and keyboards.
2- You plug into your own channel which normally has a volume control, a panning control (adjusting how your right and left speakers are feed), A bass, treble, and possibly a mid-range control. Some have effect controls.
3-You adjust each channel to get a well balanced sound.
4- Now, you use the master volume control to adjust to overall volume of the channels.

You are done – until you change the room you are playing in. A well-carpeted room does not respond the same as a room with tile floors. I have set up in a Elks Lodge -- the room was cold, they do that in preparation for the coming guests. The sound of the PA was thin and a bit harsh so I adjusted the Global EQ, the one that effects all the channels. After two hours the room became warmer my sound had to much bass and the highs were partially lost. I adjusted the EQ and all went well.

Our KN7000 has these same features. Adjust each memory registration so that the instrument sound blends with the other registrations, a balanced sound. When your surroundings change you adjust the Global EQ, the one that effects the entire keyboard.

Example;
1-I am playing for my own enjoyment, the keyboard sounds nice as it is.
2-My wife starts to serve dinner and I want the KN7000 to play soft background music. The volume control will make the KN7 louder and softer but the sound will stay the same. I normally use the Global EQ to bring the bass down just a bit and cut back on the treble, since that is the part that cuts through.

You do not have to use the EQ, but when it is used properly it adds to the overall sound of the KN7000.

John C.

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#47022 - 08/08/07 03:19 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3822
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Scott and John
Thanks for replies. This is only one small example of topics that can help everyone, and stimulate interest in our forum

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Centerpoint Space Station

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#47023 - 08/08/07 06:24 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
OK - I give in - where's the EQ button...
Rog
_________________________
Roger M

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#47024 - 08/08/07 10:37 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Keyboardcapers Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 107
Loc: England
Program Menus
Reverb & Effect
Equalizer

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#47025 - 08/08/07 05:42 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
John,

I agree with you 100% for an overall sound, especially if you have other instruments playing. Bernie9 was talking about piano only and I stand by my suggestion.

Speaking of EQ, this, in itself is an art. This is something that all members of the forum should work on. I have heard countless songs performed by members that have a very bad mix. MIX IS EVERYTHING IN A PERFORMANCE. You can express very good ideas, which I am sorry to say that I haven't heard many and it be ruined by a bad mix. Learning this art requires doing serious recording work. This, in itself will teach you the importance of a good mix. How many of us have heard over the years a good performance on a recording but the mix was totally flat and ruined the possibilities of this track ever becoming a bit hit. There lies the answer.

Scott

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#47026 - 08/10/07 02:50 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Members of our Club share their settings from time to time and one of the problems we have found is if the Sequencer has been used it is sometimes difficult to load the next file. e.g. Load and use friend's settings. Then load another member's settings which then either refuses to load properly or, some of the PMs are interrupted with the friend's PMs. The only way to get out of this predicament is to Initialise the KN7 and reload.

Can anyone explain this please?

Audrey

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#47027 - 08/10/07 03:32 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
That is precisely what the Initialisation process is for
Let's assume someone loads up a file with say a total 'performance' set-up and then later, another person loads a file with only a limited number of components - say just panel memories and current panel. Assuming the sequencer was being used by the first player and has not been canceled, then when the second player presses Start, the sequencer will start to play again(unintentionally of course), and will use the sounds in the current user's Panel Memory setup - could produce some very strange effects!!
This is due to 'remnants' of the previous player's set-up, not being overwritten by the current player's set-up and therefore, they are still active.

So, in short, to ensure a 'clean' start after someone else has used the keyboard, use the Initialise facility to clear out the previous player's set-up - it only takes a second or two..............

------------------
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

[This message has been edited by Bill Norrie (edited 08-10-2007).]
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#47028 - 08/11/07 08:29 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
Hi Willum and Audrey,

I will address playing someone else's music and then following with my own live playing or using the SEQUENCER. The way I get around this is to make a special save of three things: Save ALL PANEL MEMORIES, SOUND MEMORY and CUSTOM STYLES. It is very wise to do this because putting in someone else's music can kill a lot of work that you have created and you can't get it back unless these features are saved. Invariably, people use their own sounds or use sounds that are originally in the SOUND MEMORY. If one changes a lot of sounds and stores them in SOUND MEMORY and doesn't save them, they are gone and no way to get them back.

One of the things that really irk me is to forget to click off the SEQUENCER button when playing live. Regardless, when going to a saved PANEL MEMORY, it doesn't automatically negate the SEQUENCER being on. This is one of the things that Technics should have corrected even in previous models. It can be very embarrassing to start to play live after playing a song in SEQUENCER and the song start to play as you are starting to play live.

Scott

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#47029 - 08/12/07 04:41 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Hi Bill and Scott,

Your explanations are 'spot on' This is exactly the information I was looking for.

I cannot thank you enough because I know one or two of the members who have the Tyros keyboards also experience this from time and they too will be very interested in what you have to say.

Again, thank you both very much indeed.

Audrey

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 08-12-2007).]

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#47030 - 08/12/07 01:31 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
Audrey,

Even a quicker way is to save in one file ALL PANEL MEMORIES and SOUND MEMORY. Saving CUSTOM STYLES to this file is just a safety precaution. It is unlikely anyone would send a file with a custom style but maybe. I'll rephrase that, I would because I only do custom style work. Loading CUSTOM STYLES takes longer to load whereas loading only ALL PANEL MEMORIES and SOUND MEMORY loads very quickly. I would save CUSTOM STYLES as a single file only. Before loading anyone's music, ALWAYS check to see what they have saved. It will show to the right everything saved on that song. If there is anything that might take something out of your keyboard that you have saved, go to Page 2 and click off what you don't want loaded. This way, your file will be untouched. In all due respect to Bill (the man is up there with Alec) I personally wouldn't initialize. To me, it is much quicker with what I said in this and the previous reply. Also, Initializing will lose everything you have saved in PANEL MEMORIES, etc. You will be back to the original settings of the keyboard.

Scott

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#47031 - 08/12/07 04:27 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Thanks for that Scott.

Fortunately, I haven't had to cope with this problem lately. I learned many moons ago when saving, go to Page 2, switch on/off everything I wanted/didn't want to keep and then save in the EXPAND MODE. I think this was featured in one of the Workshops in the TechPlus magazine.

Using the same technique, when saving ALL CUSTOM STYLES , I go to Page 2, click 'ALL OFF' and then the upward arrow under CUSTOM to change it to 'YES'. This ensures the safety of your Custom settings. Again it was featured in the magazine.

I am sure there are other little 'gems' I've yet to learn about the KN7 which is why I'm planning on going to the Cambridge Convention as the 'Teaching & Learning Workshop' is the main reason for holding the event. Roger Mepstead is working very hard on this and by all accounts it's going to be a lot of fun, so the the more of us that turn up, the merrier it will be.

Audrey

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 08-12-2007).]

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 08-12-2007).]

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#47032 - 08/12/07 05:43 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
Scott, I think you have misunderstood my reason for initialising - I recommended this, purely as a way of 'cleaning up' the KN7000, after another player has used the keyboard and BEFORE you load your own settings, from your Disk or SD Card.
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#47033 - 08/13/07 12:29 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
At the organ concerts I would see the performer put a small disk into the organ and start playing. I later understood what the function of the disk was; The different performers can all use the same organ and it customize by using a disk that has their information stored.

ROM
“Read only memory” This pertains to all the features in the keyboard that the factory has put in that you CAN NOT change. For example a factory style. This cannot not be change – unless you copy it to another area which allows you access, in this case it would be the Composer Memory area.

RAM
“Read access memory” These are areas where we have our fun, we get to set up and make changes that give the keyboard our personality.

When I used another persons keyboard I ask permission to load my information and that if they have anything unsaved they will lose it.

Now all that, and most of it has been said, this is how I work with the RAM area of the keyboard.

What I have saved on my SD or floppy disk.
1-Current Panel memory
2-Panel memory – not three but ALL
3-Sequencer, if I have a song recorder
4-Composer
5-Sound memory
6-Performance Pads
7-Effect memory
8-Favorties
I do not use Midi, so I normally do not save it.

In a separate area I save the Custom Styles.
In third area I save Home Page.
I am now covered.
If I have forgotten any RAM area please correct me.

Every time I set to play my keyboard or record a song I do my first load. For me this a must, I start with the same base all the time, no surprises. – the difference in time to load all the above 8 or to load a few of them is very little.
The home page is only loaded when playing another keyboard. I have two sets of Custom Styles, one for seniors and one for Contemporary. When needed I load them.
If there is nothing wrong with the keyboard I can load and perform in complete confidence, I have it covered. Every time I load another persons work it changes my keyboard – but I am prepared. I call this my good habit.

As far as Bill’s Initializing thought, he is so right – if the house is dirty clean it, it is necessary when you have done all that you know. There have been times when I just stare with a puzzled look on my face –Time to Initialize.

As far as the Sequencer being on when you go to play, I can only say aaaaaah! Yes, embarrassing –annoying.

Benefits:
1-When you record a song you are always starting with the same information in the keyboard – it is your foundation.
2-When performing there are no surprises, (except for the sequencer) Grrrr.

I know that I have repeated some of what others have said but I needed to give a complete story. A N D it’s 3:25 AM and my old mind gets very wordy.

Hope this helps, John C.

Ain’t this a great place???

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#47034 - 08/13/07 03:07 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
Good thoughts John - even at that unbelievable hour

One other trick I use to overcome the possibility of a 'rogue' sequence being still active : When I save a set-up which does not use the sequencer ie just Panel Memories, Sound Memories, Composer etc. I save a BLANK sequencer as well and this will automatically clear any previous sequencer data, when loaded. Just make absolutely sure that the sequencer is clear or that the sequencer has been initialised, before saving the set-up to SD or Floppy Disk.
I use this method when gigging on KN7000, when I have a list of song set-ups on SD Card, for a particular performance, which includes some with sequenced accompaniment and others with just a basic set-up. Having played a song, which includes a sequence, if the next song in the list does not use a sequence, then during the loading process, the Blank sequence automatically clears the sequencer and turns it off .
This of course works even with random choices of songs within the list, provided a blank sequence is included with each non-sequenced song.
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#47035 - 08/13/07 04:34 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3822
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Bill's method was the one also recommended by Alec Pagoda several years ago.

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Centerpoint Space Station

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#47036 - 08/13/07 04:40 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Fran D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 918
Loc: Aiken, SC, USA
Bernie,

You started a wonderful thread that has brought forth some great tips from the experts on this forum.

Thanks to all,

Fran in SC

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#47037 - 08/13/07 05:32 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
When you think you have it all pretty well covered a Bill Norre comes up with a new idea. Bill, how does one save a blank Sequence?

Thank you for the new idea, John C.

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#47038 - 08/13/07 02:29 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
Hi John,
Fairly straight forward

1. Having created your set-up for a particular song/tune, which does not use the sequencer, press Program Menus > Control > Initial.
2. Scroll down the 'INITIAL' screen until you highlight 'Sequencer'.
3. Press OK > YES - This will clear the sequencer but leave all your other settings intact.
4. Now just save your song/tune as normal, but on Page 2 of the save screen, make sure that the Sequencer option is set to 'YES'.

That's it !!
If you do this as a normal routine, then the 'unexpected' sequencer appearance, will not bother you again.
If you are certain that there is no data in the sequencer when you create your song/tune, then you can skip steps 1 to 3.
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#47039 - 08/14/07 06:28 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
I have two questions for you Bill:-

1) Isn't this what the EXPAND MODE is for? e.g. On the left side page 2, I have Tempo, Split Point, Foot Controller, Fade In/Out
'OFF' and on the righthand side I've got Vocalist, Midi, Mic, Equaliser and Pad Bank all permanently set to 'OFF' My understanding is that using the EXPAND MODE will always ensure these settings will not alter unless I change them.

2)At the Club last night we discussed the initialisation of the KN and it became quite heated as some use the Program Menu method and some use the three button 'Factory' method.

Again my understanding is the Program Menu method clears any mistakes made in the PM settings whereas the Factory method clears the keyboard's whole system leaving it in it's virgin state.

Could you please confirm the difference between these two methods please?

Look forward to your reply.

Audrey

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#47040 - 08/14/07 09:56 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Audrey,
I would like to answer your questions but your directed them to Bill.
After his posts if I feel I would like to add something I’ll do at that time.

John C.

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#47041 - 08/15/07 01:53 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Thanks John,

That is very kind of you. I look forward to your input.

Audrey

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#47042 - 08/15/07 09:33 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
I'm away from home at present, but used my sister's PC to have a peek at Synthzone

In response to you questions Audrey :
1. Expand Mode settings are not relevant to the problem I was addressing in my previous postings. The "Program Menus > Control > Initial" screen allows you to set a selection of individual parameters to their default values and the default value for the Sequencer is CLEAR, which is what we wished to achieve.

2. The "Factory Reset" method will do "exactly what it says on the tin" ie it will initialise everything, which is not what you want, if you just wish to ensure that the Sequencer is clear, prior to saving a song/tune set-up.

The "Program Menu......" method allows you to select which individual parts of the KN7000's memory you wish to clear, or set to their default values.
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#47043 - 08/15/07 04:33 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Thanks for that Bill. Until this topic came up I'd only ever used the Programme Menu method but because of the heated arguments, I really became concerned that perhaps I was doing more harm than good which is why I questioned whether the Factory method was the correct way. However my 'gut feeling' was that having to switch off and on again to rectify a small correction/alteration in the PMs was a bit drastic. I ploughed through the manual looking for the answer without success.

Thanks again, it's a great help.

Audrey

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#47044 - 08/15/07 07:57 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Since the makers of the Technics keyboard created the Three-finger Factory delete method, the Program Menu delete method and the Extended Panel Memory how do they feel these areas should be used? You know, like looking at the big picture, why did they do this.

IMPORTANT:
1-Rom -- Read Only Memory. You read it, use it and play it but you can’t change it. (Without bringing it to a RAM area)

2-Ram – Read Access Memory – Read it, add to it, change it or delete it.
So any method you use to add information or delete information can only be done in the RAM area of your keyboard. Think of the RAM area as a holding pot which will TEMPORALLY hold your information.

Please, these are my opinions, I’m open for correction.

1- Three-finger Factory method
I very rarely use it, I feel it is for extreme cases. My last hope when all else fails. It does include all ram areas, some that are not covered in the Program Menu method.

2- Program Menu method.
This method allows you to select the parts you wish to delete. You can decide what stays and what is deleted. Not so with the Three-finger Factory method., that deletes all RAM areas. I am not sure if it deletes the 20 Custom Styles. ????

PANEL MEMORY –EXTENDED
You wrote: posted 08-14-2007 06:28 AM
Isn't this what the EXPAND MODE is for? e.g. On the left side page 2, I have Tempo, Split Point, Foot Controller, Fade In/Out
'OFF' and on the righthand side I've got Vocalist, Midi, Mic, Equaliser and Pad Bank all permanently set to 'OFF' My understanding is that using the EXPAND MODE will always ensure these settings will not alter unless I change them.

UNLESS I CHANGE THEM – Hmmmm. NO!
We work with the thought that if I put the information in the Panel Memory then the information stays there unless I made additional changes. NO!

I have my keyboard all set up –just the way I want it, then I load a song that Audrey recorded, now part or all my information is lost.
But why, I made no changes? Yes but Audrey did when she created her song, and Audrey’s changes invaded my keyboard.
So where did she make the changes? Possibly in the Panel Memory or the Sound Memory or the in the Pads or any place that has a RAM area.

There is no safe place in the keyboard to keep your information, it can be lost every time you decide to load some ones work.

Work out your own personal system in saving every RAM part of your keyboard. When you do that you are covered in every area. There been many times when people saved information in the Panel Memory thinking it was safe, it would always be there unless they changed it only to find they lost many hours of work.

BEWARE. After setting up my Panel Memory (Extended) A,B,C AND 1 through 10 with song set ups I did a save procedure and did not select ALL instead of 3 for the panel memory. Each time I worked with the project I saved it as all. The last time, in my rush, I saved it as 3. The project included complete set ups for 90 plus songs. It was not a good day.

Last thought. Page 198 in the manual tells us about the amount of time the keyboard will hold the Ram information (Your information) before it is deleted.

Hope this brings some clarity, John C.

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#47045 - 08/16/07 09:15 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
John C -

You said and I quote, "Last thought. Page 198 in the manual tells us about the amount of time the keyboard will hold the Ram information (Your information) before it is deleted."

That page shouldn't be in the KN7000 manual. This is a carry over from previous keyboards. Case in point: It states that the Sequencer will hold memory for about 80 minutes when the keyboard in shut down. NOT SO. If you have a song in Sequencer and you shut down, it is no longer there, even when you immediately turn on the keyboard. Also, I have never had a problem losing my Panel Memories by not turning on the keyboard for more than a week.

We all play our keyboards differently, including saving files. If one insists on having no song in Sequencer, before you save your ALL PANEL MEMORIES and SOUND MEMORY, click on PROGRAM MENUS, click SEQUENCER, click RECORD @ EDIT and on the right side, click SONG CLEAR and save ONLY your ALL PANEL MEMORIES and SOUND MEMORY. Do the same thing when you save CUSTOM STYLES as a single file.

Scott

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#47046 - 08/16/07 01:12 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Scott,
I have never had concern about losing information as stated on page 198 in the manual. I normally save all my information leaving nothing to chance.

I just did a test; I loaded a sequence, played it and then turned off the keyboard. When I turned the keyboard on the sequence was still there to play. I am wonder if all the KN7000 keyboards were made the same, if they were how could you and I have different results.

My suggestion would be to test all the information on page before trusting it.

I have had times when I go to play a song only to find that the sequencer is in control of the keyboard. A little embarrassing if you are playing for some one.
1-I save my information on the SD card. I normally go to the second page of the save procedure press all off and select everything but Custom Styles, Home page and Midi. If there is a sequence I select it, if not it stays unchecked.
2-When I load this information at a future date, and then begin to play. Not always, but there have been times when a sequence was present and it took control. Now since I did not load the sequence at that time it comes as an unwanted surprise. Because I like to run a tight ship I feel Bill’s thought on this subject maybe the way to go. I have not tested any method because it is not a major problem for me.

One more thought – If I load a sequence from Bernie and after listening I decide to load my information, which does not include the sequencer, when I go to play Bernie’s sequence is in control.

I may have to live with this one if Bill’s or Scott’s suggestions do not work for me.

John C.

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#47047 - 08/16/07 01:14 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
I hope this is not a double post something strange happened.

Scott,
I have never had concern about losing information as stated on page 198 in the manual. I normally save all my information leaving nothing to chance.

I just did a test; I loaded a sequence, played it and then turned off the keyboard. When I turned the keyboard on the sequence was still there to play. I am wonder if all the KN7000 keyboards were made the same, if they were how could you and I have different results.

My suggestion would be to test all the information on page before trusting it.

I have had times when I go to play a song only to find that the sequencer is in control of the keyboard. A little embarrassing if you are playing for some one.
1-I save my information on the SD card. I normally go to the second page of the save procedure press all off and select everything but Custom Styles, Home page and Midi. If there is a sequence I select it, if not it stays unchecked.
2-When I load this information at a future date, and then begin to play. Not always, but there have been times when a sequence was present and it took control. Now since I did not load the sequence at that time it comes as an unwanted surprise. Because I like to run a tight ship I feel Bill’s thought on this subject maybe the way to go. I have not tested any method because it is not a major problem for me.

One more thought – If I load a sequence from Bernie and after listening I decide to load my information, which does not include the sequencer, when I go to play Bernie’s sequence is in control.

I may have to live with this one if Bill’s or Scott’s suggestions do not work for me.

John C.

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#47048 - 08/16/07 05:30 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Hello John,

Thank you for your very explicit and clear reply to my questions. Like you, I too have learned "the hard way" - to watch every step I make when saving my settings and although I find saving to the Custom Stylist is a little more secure, it is not 100% because if it becomes necessary to use the three button method, your settings WILL BE REPLACED WITH ORIGINAL FACTORY SETTINGS. So! the obvious answer is a backup using either the SD Card or a Floppy.

Fortunately, I have the use of the KN SD Explorer Tool which makes backing so much easier and also allows me to print an Index of what is on the SD Card(s) which are filed in a Ringbinder enabling me to quickly find any song or rhythm at any time, without the need to switch on the keyboard or the PC.

Will you be coming to Cambridge John? I hope so, I am really looking forward to meeting all the kind people who, over the years, have helped me so much to understand my Technics Keyboards and subsequently get greater enjoyment from them.

Thanks again - Audrey

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#47049 - 08/16/07 06:01 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
John C,

If your keyboard, which I am assuming is a KN7000 and you still have a song in SEQUENCER after you have turned the keyboard off, you definitely have a different KN7000 than I do. I put this question to the forum a good two years ago and Alec agreed with me that page 198 backup and memory did not apply to the KN7000. I just did this test again by putting in a sequenced song, made sure it was in by playing it, turned the keyboard off, waited 3 minutes, turned the keyboard on again and nothing in the SEQUENCER. You may want to do a retest, leave the keyboard off for at least 10 to 15 minutes and see if you have a sequenced song. If you do, this will more or less prove that Technics made changes in this model. It certainly is wise not to trust the manual in this case and always save your work to disk before turning the keyboard off.

Here is an interesting point - Years ago, I had a KN1000 and I could be working in COMPOSER and also have a song in SEQUENCER, turn the keyboard off and not turn it on for at least three weeks and everything would still be there. Why this isn't capable in the KN7000 is anyone's guess.

Scott

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#47050 - 08/16/07 06:56 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
KeithB Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Melbourne AUSTRALIA
Just a thought, with these varying outputs with saving sequencer information on the KN7000, do each of the respondents have the same operating system?
I've often wondered when updating an operating system, what else is being corrected/changed?
Keith

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#47051 - 08/16/07 07:52 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Keith,
I feel you have a good point. I believe Scott is saying exactly with happens sequences in his keyboard. Tonight I loaded a sequence, turned the keyboard off and then had dinner. After forty I turned on the keyboard and there it was. So you point Keith must be valid.

John C.

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#47052 - 08/18/07 02:20 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
I have just reread my last post – tomorrow I am going to enroll in a local Grammar school, can’t have this kind of going on. Aaaaaaaah!

John C.

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#47053 - 08/18/07 05:05 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Thank you for this John.

So, using my usual method of saving, the secret is to make sure the 'ALL' is on when saved, is that what you are saying? If so, that would mean the Sequencer and others not usually saved, would be saved as well bringing us back to the 'rogue' sequenced settings being loaded when not wanted.

To sum up, I think I will try everything you and Bill suggest and see which is the best method for me, because as you say, we all have our way of doing things. This just goes to show (like the PC), there are usually several ways of operating to achieve the same end.

I find this all very interesting - thanks to you both.

Audrey

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#47054 - 08/18/07 11:50 AM Re: Revisiting Basics
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3202
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Audrey,
“All” refers to the panel memory only.
1-You have Three, which is A B C of the panel memory.

2-Then you have “All” which is A B C and 1 through 10 in the panel memory.
Audrey, Think of all the memories areas, (RAM) as different baskets to put your information in. Each basket accommodates different information.

1-Current Panel—the general information that is in your keyboard before saving. I am using the word general because I have never taken the time to see exactly what it saves. I always save it to be safe.

2-Panel Memory – Three or All

3-Sequence – your sequence.

4-Composer – the three styles in your composer.

5-Sound memory – Any altered sounds that you have created or loaded into your keyboard.

6-Performance Pads –the Pads

7-Effect memory. Again, this does save effects. Exactly which ones I don’t know. I always save it to be safe.

8-User Midi Settings – If there are any settings used to control an external device or an external device used to control the keyboard it is saved here.

9-Favorites – I love this one. The little circle on the lower left end of the keyboard. Lot’s of goodies here. Good subject for later.

10-Home Page – That is what you see in the screen. The screen can be customized. I am amazed to see people use a Home page with half the information that is needed. Also a good topic for later.

11-All Custom styles – As it says, your custom 20 styles.

Some of this is very basic, but let’s not leave a stone unturned.
The saving or loading procedure gives you the option of choosing what items you wish to save or load.
In the saving procedure, on the second page, you will see Performance. This method will save 1 through to 7 Effect memory.
CAUTION – This will save only A B C of the panel memory. It does not save Panel Memories 1 through 10.

Initialize – Factory method empties all the baskets.

Initialize – Program Menus gives you the ability to choose which areas you are Initializing. (Deleting)

When you press and hold SET in the middle of the Panel Memory then press one of the panel memories to save information, you are only putting your information in a basket which can be over written or lost after one week. (According to page 198 in the manual) This type of saving should be saved on a disk or SD card.

My method of saving is to go to page two of the saving procedure and press ALL OFF, right bottom of window. Then I select the items that I wish to save – remembering that I may wish to save ALL instead of Three. (Panels)
Sometimes I press Performance on the second page and then add ALL or three. The performance method of saving does not include:
1-User Midi Settings
2-Favorites
3-Home Page
4-All Custom Styles

(I must like doping this)
Hope this clarifies, John C.

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#47055 - 08/18/07 05:00 PM Re: Revisiting Basics
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1080
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Yes it does John, Like you I use the Centre Button on the PMs and go to page 2, but unlike you I rarely have to change anything because I don't use the sequencer, the midi, or mic on a regular basis, so my setts usually stay put. The problem is as you say, when someone else loads their own settings.

I have now tried both suggestions and for me at least, Bill's method is quite by far the quickest and easiest way of dealing with this problem. (now what's the bet on the next time I play at a 'gig' I'll have forgetten to check/initialise the KN and will get one of these rogue setups?)

There you have it really, the memory isn't what it used to be and although I hate admitting it, nine times out of ten, the fault lies with me.

Who cares! it's the music that counts....

Audrey

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 08-19-2007).]

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