Not to flog a dead horse on this but....
Now apply your observation to Yamaha and you might understand where I'm coming from.

Yamaha have intentionally allowed the Tyros to be simple to operate by not giving you advanced features in order to sell it to a certain age bracket. The problem with that logic is that the keyboards are not appealing to the younger generation as the keyboards do not offer them the sounds or functions they require. For Yamaha to change and to cater for the younger generation they now have to develop countless new features, and totally alienate their current market. But that will not happen and it's too late. The younger generation will just skip over the Yamaha Arranger and buy one of their Motif's or some other brand. Maybe even a KORG Arranger.

KORG on the other hand have done the complete opposite and their keyboards do come with pretty much everything you get in a workstation. Which is where your observation come in, and untimely verifies what I just said above about Yamaha.

The demise of the arranger was very much so directed at Yamaha.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 12-26-2010).]

James, that poor horse...have you no mercy?

The only one who has a problem with how Yamaha is doing things, is you.

Suddenly you are wiser than the professional marketers at Yamaha...really?

Obviously Yamaha's arranger strategy has been working for a very long time..well over 20 years...the PSR and Tyros line have an enviable sales record.

Korg goes after a different market, or more accurately, age group...obviously they can co-exist with Yamaha, as both companies are successful.

So what makes Korg any better at it than Yamaha?

Nuttin'...other than you being a hardcore Korg enthusiast, and wanting it (Korg) to appear better than Yamaha...your posts lean heavily in that direction, and it has become quite obvious to even the most casual reader.

Korg is not better...just different.

Read my posts (and Spalding's posts) again...we are just as accurate as you.

No one is wrong here...there are just different perspectives.

Now, leave that poor old horse alone...

Ian

Ian, I believe you said you have worked for Yamaha for 30 years?

That considered, I don't expect you to even entertain my view. Your not an end user in the same sense as everyone else here. It's in your interest to dismiss everything I say.

Regards
James.

That's the problem James...I do see your view in regards to both companies having different strategies. I don't dismiss your points in that respect.

However, I don't share your view that one company is better at making arrangers than the other, or one strategy is superior to the other ...I'm much more open minded, in that respect.

Both companies make exceptional arrangers...both market them very successfully...both cater to a different age group and/or user.

Promote your favorite company all you like, but consider how shallow a promotion becomes when you have to put down another company in the process.

Have I been guilty of something similar?

Yep, but, I like to think I've moved on from needing to do that sort of thing any more. All it creates is pissing contests, and, in many cases, bad feelings, and it ultimately shows how insecure one has to be to do it in the first place.

I am an end user, just like you are, and I am not limited to buy only Yamaha, nor am I restricted in being open about using another brand for personal or professional use. I'm simply very content with the type of arranger being made by Yamaha...it is better, only in the respect that it suits my needs and playing style more closely than any other brand.

Best wishes,

Ian

James,

What will be will be and you will not make one jot of difference, Arranger or Workstation does it matter, MS,Wesri,Ketron,Korg they will never make product in Yamaha numbers all put together they won't and some won't be around this time next year, looks loke the market has been saturated. For someone to buy a product at £4500 it needs to be all singing dancing and I don't see anything around like that. I am waiting for the Wing but I am not holding my breath, I was going to have ago at MS but I don't think I could sell my Korg or the Audya at the moment.

BTW Merry Christmas and any pochen left?

One happy Korg and Yamaha user,would not be without either.

Gilbert.

Gilbert, if I could try out a Korg arranger, I would more than likely have one here to compliment the Yamaha.

At one time I was very interested in a Roland arranger, most specifically, the E-80, which I was able to try out.

However, Yamaha managed to improve their organ sounds (especially the Hammond emulations on the S910 and Tyros2/3) so one of the reasons to get the Roland was eliminated...the other issue was the weight of the E-80, a terrific sounding, and well featured arranger otherwise.

Today's TOTL arrangers are all exceptionally gifted...it's now only down to personal tastes and needs.

What Korg are you using...the PA2XPro?

Ian

the problem James is that you see almost entirely the future of arrangers resting with a target market of uner 20 year olds . But what Ian and i are saying is thats not yamaha's target market. And just as there is a limitless supply of under 20's there is a limitless supply of over 30's and 40 year olds and play at home hobbyists and people who would just like to 'have a go'. Yamaha's target market for their arrangers.

Different marketsthat can both coexist.

Most of the KORGERs are non arrnger users/VH only and drum machine only ( bass/drum/right hand),SMF playbackers.

90 % of you tube Korg you tube Vids are mid eastern and most of them use quarter tone/sampling.Yammy's OR series may do the same sound but not punchy enough.

I have been saying this for years.


if you play western (not cowboy) music (pop/rock/ballads/country etc) Yammy is the way to go.US/UK/Ausssies/West EU and Asia - PSR/Tyros has top sales.More fills/natural simple 8 /16 beats that fits most of the popular songs.


Mid east and East euro arranger players -KORG (unique RH sound/sampling/3 rd party styles)-Korg sales are high and you may not even see MOTL Yammys in their stores.Their local KORG support is also great since 80% of the OMB players uses KoRG.


Now SMF players with occational arranger work -KORG.

This has been like this for past 12 years (after introduction od PSR 2k) and will be like this for a while.(Until Korg has same 3 rd party user styles like Yammy).
Roland was where Yammy is now in the 90's (E 86 ,anyone? out sold I3 because of direct disk play function - that was before G series).


Yammy players do know that KORG has better editing,sequencer, punchier sounds for most part/better hardware in general BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART FOR AN ARRANGER USER - KORG CAN NOT COMPETE WITH YAMMY -SIMPLE AND MANY MANY (THOUSANDS) OF STYLES AND 3RD PARTY SUPPORT. Yes, that's why Yammy is getting away with cheap hardware, VH and still charge more than 1500$ and still sells like cakes.Their secret - make GOOD styles (It's a ARRANGER, Duh!) that can fit many songs not just one songs/do not over orchestrate/make simple fiils/dot put a shift button to change styles or sounds,make it light.

Korg does have punchier over all WS type sound/better editing editing but will still loose Yammy in arranger market for ( not having simpler 8/16 beats, over orchestration and fills).OS is not the issue but over all styles (content) are- for the arranger player.


Korg spent more time on doing funk/bad latin or rap, new age and disco styles with overly recognizable bass and drum lines (BAD MOVE FOR AN ARRANGER).Yammy spend more time of styles with simple guitar strums/piano lines /bass/drums- 8 and 16 beats and oldies all with simpler bass and drum lines to fit most songs.Arranger user who uses ARRANGER function mostly for the gig(for western music) has no other choice but to buy a Yammy.Again, exceptions may be there, but rare.



[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 12-27-2010).]

And I think that sums it up perfectly.

All brands have their strengths and weaknesses. Which fit is best with you is completely an individual choice. I have never been brand loyal ... I always use whatever best fits with me at the time. No brand loyalty ever comes into play. I have had keyboards by all major manufacturers over the years and have liked them all but usually for very different reasons. So different people will always prefer different keyboards. Everyone has to carefully weigh pros and cons to find the best balance for them. And we all know that ALL brands always have both pros and cons.

Sound quality, styles, OS interface, keybed feel vary so much on an arranger keyboard that people will never completely gravitate to just one brand.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 12-27-2010).]