One question. How, when, why, where did you guys learn English? I think it's amazing, incredible, astounding, that we have so many members from around the globe that are able to converse on a conversational level (or higher)in English. I also think it's shameful that Americans are so monolingual in this global community in which we now live. It's no accident that the international language of aviation is English; if it weren't, we'd never find enough commercial pilots to fly international. Almost every foreign leader or head-of-state speaks passable English but when is last time we had a president that spoke anything other than English. Shouldn't we be embarrassed by that. Are we so arrogant that we don't see a need to learn a foreign language or are we simply too dumb. I feel that this situation needs to be addressed by our public school system. I think a reasonable proficiency in at least one other language should have to be demonstrated before graduation from college.

Since most of us are past the age of having school-age kids, perhaps we could stress the importance of this for our grand kids. What do you think?

chas

Yeah, yeah, I know. This belongs at the Bar.

At highschool (looong time ago.. in the seventies) we had lessons in Dutch, English, German and French. Most of the kids drop the French language and continue the others.

Many (most of the) 'Dutchies' (born after 1950) are able to speak at least two foreign languages.

The Dutch (!) company I work for has English as the preferred language because of the many nationalities of emloyees.

International TV-progams, movies and internet make we hear-, see-, think-, read-or write English several times a day.

btw This is the bar isn't it ?

English is the language of my country..it has served me well...

You aren't suggested I brush up (as in learn)...on my Italian..

If you folks want to talk to me...it will have to be English!!

Now where is that Pilot's manual I was reading..

Hi Chas,
I think a number of the Europeans actually learn English as part of their schooling.

I have 2nd cousins in Austria & Germany and they speak better English than I do.

The big problem is, what 2nd or 3rd language does one learn. There's 100's of them. Here in Aust. during my school days, if you wanted to learn a 2nd language, it was either French or German ( the latter I can still sort of speak & understand).

Dad's Croatian, mum's Austrian ( I was too),
husband's Australian, daughter in law is Italian. We're a mixed bunch. haahaa

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cgiles:
[B]

Thank you for a very interesting thread for me.
I was educated at Grammar school in England and studied German French Latin and , of course, English (Language and Literature).
Although I always wanted to communicate with other non-english (I actually hate the word 'foreigners'),my teachers were wonderful at their job and therefore encouraged my passion.This was 1943 to 1949 and most of my teachers were good at their chosen profession. I fear that is not always the case today.
It is therefore not always easy to study another language in school...my son, daughter,grandson and granddaughter have confirmed this.....
There is a certain laziness to learn another language when your first language is english wherever you are in the world simply because english is so widely used in business and commerce, songs,computers,aviation, and are these not the most important communicators we have!.
In my own case , I also have spent a lot of time studying russian,italian,spanish,arabic and even chinese , simply because I am an avid 'learner'of information. This has enriched my life enormously by reason of allowing me in to the makeup of our non-english friends .
I fear that english, however, will continue to be the number one language in the world where most needs are.
In my case, I have a keen interest in my fellows and by travelling around a few countries I have found that we are all basically the same human beings except that we use different languages.
Long live foreign languages and accents and
dialects!!!!


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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

PSR9000

I started EFL in 1972. It was in fact my seventh language as I already spoke Dutch, German, French, Flemish, Afrikaans and a local dialect (a mixture of Dutch, French, German. It's not a pitch-tone language but a tone language) Dialects really are a breed apart (going off-topic but necessary) as they are the true mother tongue and are the most important factor that differentiate region and population. Your next-door neighbor, e.g., will stick to his own dialect if he lives in a different village than yours. If you're talking about "ants" you might refer to them as "zeikwurms" and he as "amzeiksels". Or "de put" (u as in uh) and "chabornage" if talking about coalmines. (In French: mine de charbon). You would have no trouble using my dialect in Bavaria and be understood as it is closer to Bavarian dialects then Hochdeutsch.

I practiced English by thinking in the language, reading and rereading novels (first novel: Travels with Charley by John Steinbeck). Dictionaries were used only as a last resort. Personally, I find an idiomatic dictionary to be more useful.
EFL was also the most important factor in me having penpals on every continent. I had nearly 100 penpals so I spent several hours a day on writing letters. I had the pleasure of visiting a great number of them and even now we still remain friends. Oral practice is very important but I find reading even more so. What you pick up through reading will greatly enhance your vocabulary, grammar, comprehension, plus countless cultural facts. To be truly fluent one has to be culturally literate.

My first step, when learning a new language, is to get to know the phonetics. I teach Phonics and it takes approximately two to three months to turn non-readers (6-year olds) into fluent readers of English. I've been told by native English speakers that my students read better than most junior high school students of English speaking countries. Once students can read the learning factor is so much easier as they can actually study their lessons at home while those that can't have to rely purely on memory. Rote learning also hampers one's learning as it doesn't focus on expressing oneself and the latter is what language is all about.

I picked up Italian during high school as I had more Italian classmates than local ones. Actually I did it to impress Italian girls (worked like a charm). Later on I studied Spanish and Maltese (lived in Malta). While in the Armed Forces I had a course in Swahili which I used in Shaba and Kolwezi during the uprisings in Zaire (Congo).

It is only fair to say that when I moved to Taiwan learning Chinese (Mandarin) would be on top of my list. In Taiwan I picked up conversational Japanese (put to use on my trips to Japan) and Taolog (I have lots of Pinoy friends plus useful when I was in the Philippines) and now I am still busy with Lao and Thai (closely related so killing two birds with one stone). Oh, and I speak enough Taiwanese, Indonesian, Malay and Vietnamese to get by. Enough to ask for directions, order food and have simple conversations.

Mandarin Chinese is now my first language while English is the second. No wonder since I've been in the Far East since 1980. My aim is to make Lao my first language but that will take some time. My son understands Lao, Thai, English, Chinese, French, German and Dutch as I use all these languages to communicate with him. And no, it doesn't confuse him one bit. Nothing is forced upon him. I may ask him in German and he may reply in Chinese. I think it's cool.

Culture is defined as �the way of life of a group of people including that group�s language, music, foods, holidays, and beliefs�. English is the international language but that shouldn't deter people from learning another language. Learning another language will gain you respect among the locals while complaining that the locals don't speak English only leads to you being seen as arrogant. I've never been to a country where I didn't involve myself in picking up the rudimentaries of the local tongue. This alone has opened many doors and lasting friendships. One earns respect by giving respect. This is so true when it comes to learning a foreign language.

[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 08-11-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 08-11-2009).]

I have no interest in learning things I don't need. Sure, it would be cool. I actually took 2 semesters of Spanish, and 2 of German. But I wasn't interested, and I've since forgotten most of what I knew because I don't have any reason to remember.

I have music from all over the world, so I'm fascinated by hearing other languages, but have no passion for learning any.

Internationals learn English because they know its utter usefulness in the world. That's how things have become, no getting around it. It's become a common ground language. The prestige of being able to show off my vast intellect when traveling abroad might be nice, but no practical reason other than that.

I haven't posted anything in a while now, but I will answer your question.

I have never learned English in school. That is why my English suffers sometimes when it comes about getting the right form of tenses, etc. But nevertheless, I always liked it and find it to be useful for my work - most charities in Romania are from UK, also my pastor at the church is english language speaker, so... many reasons.

Still, I should mention - and probably this is the main factor - all the movies that are on TV in my country are subtitled, not voice doubled. That REALLY helps many young people and not only to get to understand and speak a little bit of English.

If english wouldn't be the international language, something else would. I believe in the Windows, Internet and Social Networks era, English really become the tools of choice. It's also because it is not super-hard to get it. I dare you learn two phrases in Romanian!

Hi Chas.
Wow !!!,
Taike, I am astounded, what a profile.
Oh!! by the way, can you play keyboard too? (joke, mate).
Seriously,I am impressed by the people who post on this site who obviously do not have English as a first language, and are able to be conversant with everyone, and particularly in their knowledge of technology of KB's and computers, which I lack considerably, but I am dismayed by others who have English as a first language advantage, and are content to take the lazy approach without proof reading their posts,or using reasonable grammar, which might help the afore-mentioned posters to improve their English skills.
Oh! but then I am a purist and traditionalist. Don't ever play golf with me.
Ray

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Ray The Saint

Whilst I can order beer in a number of european languages I'm "strictly english" after that.

I find this a matter of embarrassment on holidays in that I am forced to hope that people in other countries have taken the time and effort to learn my language when I clearly haven't done that same for anyon else. I could blame my education given that I had to choose between German or Biology, Latin or Chemistry. sciences 2 languages nil but we still had to do French and my French is still total merde.

Of course having recently had justifiable excuses to holiday in Australia and Florida it's still a bit of a shock to find that the mother tongue has taken a bit of a bashing. There were still times when I had no idea what people were talking about even though it sounded like english most of the time!

On serious note I have nothing but admiration for those who post here in their non-native tongue.