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#198688 - 09/21/04 05:07 AM HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I dunno if this is the place to ask it since an obvious bias would be in play here but I'd love to hear your comments. It's about gigging OMB style.

I have resisted gigging with sounds that I do not create live. At the moment, I don't even have a keyboard (sold it) but hope to pick up a psr3000 or used psr very soon. But for now, I am gigging with just me and acoustic guitar. Now, that can be done and I'm doing it. Legions have done it before me.

But I am no great singer or guitarist. I get the job done. As for guitar, many people think I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good with some styles. Others, I'm just okay. As for voice, with country stuff or folky stuff, really, no problem. But some stuff, to me, there's something to be desired.

If I had a superb voice, this "problem" would be somewhat diminished. Ah, but you gotta go with what you got.

I want and need to gig as often as possible. And I am thinking a guy and a guitar these days is just not enough for today's market. I am thinking the game has changed. I can't prove that, that's why I'd like opinions.

I am thinking that people are more attuned to a fuller sound. Certainly, with an arranger, I could develop songs that sound like a full band. I have resisted this, something about it bugs me but hey, I wanna work. As for how it sounds to my ear, I very much enjoy it. I like the full-band sound. I've just wanted to do it all live.

There are some songs, there is no way a guy and an acoustic guitar are going to do it justice. And as for rock music, I can't create any oomph without bass and drums.

Bottom line, I am thinking I could get more gigs if I had a full-band sound. Like, if you can't fight 'em, join 'em.

I have gigged with a bass player here and it's dramatic with what just that adds. But heck, then you have to split the measly dough. And deal with other people. Which is good but also can be bad.

So, main question is do you think times have changed? I am willing to do most any gig for pay. I mean, senior homes, biker bars, whatever. I can do some stuff just me and guitar but add that full sound with the arranger. Replies appreciated.
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#198689 - 09/21/04 05:51 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2202
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Boy, you're going to get everything including the kitchen sink on this one, lol...

Talk to 10 of us who perform for a living, you'll find 10 different ways of doing it.

I'm a keyboard player/vocalist...so visually, my act didn't change much when I started using my Tyros. For a guitar player to suddenly have a keyboard next to him, that he reaches over and touches to start songs...Who knows. Will you strictly follow the arranger? Will you at times NOT play guitar during a song and play only the keys? In some places they won't care...other places it may not work real well.

Also, the approach to how you utuilize the arranger is worth looking at as well. I basically ride styles 90% of the time. I don't split my keyboard and I never use saxes, brass, etc for any leads I play. What I try and stick with are more keyboard/pad based leads. One exception I make on a regular basis is my use of the vibes for leads. This approach works best for me given my piano style and my personal tastes plus, honestly, I haven't felt comfortable playing with a split keyboard. Maybe down the road I will, but the way I described above is working great so far.

Scott Yee, the TV star that we all know & enjoy, takes the opposite route. He DOES use a split keyboard and uses saxes/brass/ect for his leads all the time and it sounds great.

This isn't something you're probably going to be really comfortable with trying unrehearsed, lol...My advice is play around with your new set up and find a "place" where the sound is pleasing to you, the mechanics of starting/ending songs, selecting different variations of a pattern, fills, etc. feels good to you.

Whatever that "place" is...is probably where you need to take this. Once you get comfortable with that and are gigging alot...you'll knnow what changes you want to make and then make them...

Again, I'd highly reccomemend lots of practise at your home to get your comfort level up nice and high. If you're pushing yourself and secure some new accounts...they won't care that you're trying a new setup. Work the bugs out at home-everything will likely fall into place for you.

Good luck...

Bill in Dayton
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#198690 - 09/21/04 06:34 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Bill makes some very valid points, especially about the differences of opinion based on what each individual is comfortable with, and how they currently perform. Also as Billl said, different venues, different expectations.
A friend of mine recently bought a guitar synth (sorry I don't know the name) which follows his chord playing and adds bass and drums, and can change lead 'voices' to whatever instrument he wants for solos ... Have you thought about anything like that" ... This way all the audience sees is your guitar and you can have as little (bass & drums only) or as much (full band) accompaniment as you want....
t.
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t. cool

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#198691 - 09/21/04 06:37 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Well, I _did_ practice for a long time. I'm new to keys (couple of years) but I get by okay. I worked up I don't know how many songs. Ready to go. Push the buttons to set 'em up and go. I'd either play keys along with the style auto-accompaniment or I'd record the song, save to disk, play back from disk and play guitar over the top. I probably have a couple of hundred songs ready to go. Kinda need a keyboard first.

Main question is regarding whether to do it at all.

As for "sounds," it is just my feeble opinion but I have never been comfortable AT ALL playing leads on a keyboard with anything that is not a normal keyboard sound. No guitar sounds, no sax. I don't fault anyone who does. I have a strong opinion about it but if it works for someone, I don't knock it.

Bill In Dayton said: "In some places they won't care...other places it may not work real well."

If you care to comment on that, that's what I'm looking for. Starting/stopping songs, yep, that is a big issue for me but I'm mainly just trying to figure out if a richer sound means more gigs.

Let me give you an example. I play all kinds of stuff. But I was messing around with "Danny Boy," as played by Eric Clapton. Fingerstyle guitar. I can play this on acoustic only and I think you'd enjoy it. I also whistle the melody and that's cool. I have a good whistler. HOWEVER... back when I had my keyboard, when I added strings to it (and I could add a thumping bass drum like E.C. did) and it's seriously cool. It's another dimension to the song. It's beautiful either way but with strings added... ah.
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#198692 - 09/21/04 06:41 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by tony mads usa:
Bill makes some very valid points, especially about the differences of opinion based on what each individual is comfortable with, and how they currently perform. Also as Billl said, different venues, different expectations.
A friend of mine recently bought a guitar synth (sorry I don't know the name) which follows his chord playing and adds bass and drums, and can change lead 'voices' to whatever instrument he wants for solos ... Have you thought about anything like that" ... This way all the audience sees is your guitar and you can have as little (bass & drums only) or as much (full band) accompaniment as you want....
t.


That is a very serious option for me. However, I play acoustic, not electric. Although, Line 6 did come out with a Variax "acoustic" style guitar that would probably send midi signals like what you speak of. Problem is, I demo'd it and did not like it. I didn't play it long, maybe I could get used to it better. It's a strong choice for me.

However, I want a keyboard anyway because even if I stayed totally 100% live, there are songs I can play piano only that guitar does not do justice to.

But again, the main question is whether the richer sound (OMB) is BETTER for getting gigs.

Put it this way... you can sound like James Taylor with a guitar only. Or you can sound like that PLUS him and his full band on other songs if you add at least drums/bass lines. What gets more gigs?
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#198693 - 09/21/04 07:01 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
"Put it this way... you can sound like James Taylor with a guitar only. Or you can sound like that PLUS him and his full band on other songs if you add at least drums/bass lines. What gets more gigs?"

Being able to do both!!! And when you are booking a gig, find out what the expectations are, what kind of audience, etc. and then decide what you think might be most suitable.... AND ... if it's not working on the gig, change what you are doing ...
As for the kb vs, guitar synth, I had lost the fact that you would be playing the keys as well ... in that case, the kb on stage will be very suitable, and when you switch will show that you are multi talented ... and the kb still gives you the option of adding as much or little accompaniment as you need/want.
t.
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t. cool

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#198694 - 09/21/04 07:20 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
There was a group up here that consisted of two guys, both with guitars, one acustic with a great pick-up and the other with an electric. One guy also had a keyboard hooked up to a laptop. He had thousands of midi files in the laptop, and they kicked off each song with the midi, filled in with the guitars and vocals, and the keyboard/guitar player would often switch between the guitar and the keyboard. They were great entertainers, did mostly 50/60s stuff, packed the bars where they played, everyone danced and they were booked solid--7 days a week. Something you might want to consider!

Come on up to Bossier City in January and you can get some pointers from some of the folks that do this for a living.

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#198695 - 09/21/04 07:21 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
As long as you are doing something live, like playing your guitar, I don't think having backing tracks will be a problem at all. Will it get you more gigs? Who knows. It's highly unlikely it will give you less gigs though, and if you sound better, it may mean more gigs.
I am a guitar player and keyboardist. When I am playing guitar, some songs I will do just my guitar and vocal, but I am also a picker, not just an accompanist to myself. On those songs where I dig in and do a guitar solo I use either a sequence or a CD track for my accompaniment. Heck, think about karioke. That is someone standing with a mic and singing to a backing track. You got a heck of a lot more going for you than that by playing guitar and playing keys while you sing. Unless you are a dazzling guitarist playing for other guitarists, solo so-so guitar and solo so-so vocals are gonna get boring. Play the keyboard, use backing tracks, play solo, do it all. Spice and variety!

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#198696 - 09/21/04 07:56 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Bill,
You know where I live, and where I play. I'll be happy to help you any way I can. I'm working six nights a week and as many days as I can hold up to.
DonM
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#198697 - 09/21/04 08:03 AM Re: HELP! Need opinion on OMB performing
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
There was a group up here that consisted of two guys, both with guitars, one acustic with a great pick-up and the other with an electric. One guy also had a keyboard hooked up to a laptop. He had thousands of midi files in the laptop, and they kicked off each song with the midi, filled in with the guitars and vocals, and the keyboard/guitar player would often switch between the guitar and the keyboard. They were great entertainers, did mostly 50/60s stuff, packed the bars where they played, everyone danced and they were booked solid--7 days a week. Something you might want to consider!

It is something I am searching for (a duo partner) but it will take time -- a multi-instrument dude. Or dudette. I've met with a few but so far, not the right match.

So, two things... a duo and also me as solo act. Depending on how much the other half can gig.

Come on up to Bossier City in January and you can get some pointers from some of the folks that do this for a living.

I actually plan to do that! I looked at my schedule just yesterday. I would hate to miss it; it would be fun and informational.

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Bill

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