Look, guys, please don't forget... I use an arranger myself!

I am not knocking their use, just their abuse! Your Jordan Ruddess quote showed quite precisely where I stand on this. Great musicians DO occasionally use arrangers. And so do MANY very poor ones. How you USE the technology is what's important. Scour the Internet for ONE tune where a real artist has used one doesn't negate the fact that the overwhelming 99.9999% of them DON'T.

One thing you will NEVER see is Jordan holding down a chord in his left hand, and playing a simple one note solo over a factory style, and calling himself a musician because he can pull this off. Just like Ian, and some others here do, he designs these loops and 'styles' himself, and uses them as part of a MUCH more complex performance. And you will NEVER hear Jordan saying he PREFERS to play with these machines because of how poor his 'live' musician friends are..!

Look, I'm sorry if I'm going to tweak anybody's ego here, but if all the musicians (or most of them) that you have played with have been lousy, perhaps it's time to look in the mirror. I know for a fact that great musicians like to play with OTHER great musicians. Why are you playing full time with an arranger, if you WOULD like to play with great musicians? Why aren't YOU getting the call? Why are most of the people you have played with so bad?

Everyone slags the 'poor' drummer, or volume deaf guitarists... What about the arranger player that drowns his accompaniment out? Or can't play in time with his backing (because he can't HEAR the drum part, maybe? ). What about the arranger player that trots out a 'sax solo' that hasn't got ONE bend in it, or a spot where a sax player might BREATHE, for Pete's sake? I've heard SO many of these, and then they have the gall to complain about the poor musicians that WILL play with them!

I guess I tend to assume that any player's goal is to become a better musician. After reading MANY comments here, I am obviously wrong about this. Many (not all, obviously, so don't just ASSume this is about you - look in that mirror for yourself ) simply want the latest technology, so they DON'T have to become a better musician. As long as it's all done for you, why bother?

Why bother, indeed...