hi Bill. Listen,,, About your virus prob. Mcaffe abosolutly xxxxx! I had that. Take my advice and get Nortons! I got 2 viruses when I had mcaffe. They are always so darn late to have updates and miss many of them. When I cleaned my pc of virus with it and still had problems I got nortons and ran that. Nortons found 257 infected files that mcaffe missed! 257! I am not kidding you man. mcaffe is the worst and I have had nortons for 3 years without a problem. I also have know people with mcaffe to get viruses. On many occassions I have seen this. I don't know how mcaffe even stays in business because they absolutle xxxx! Just a warning to you. Get Nortons and you wont be sorry. You see,,,, even after getting the virus mcaffe should have cleaned it. I update nortons less than once a month but they are so far ahead of things that I never got a virus. Of corse nortons has detected them a few times before it was accessed. it checks my email automatically as it is downloading and so I never have any surprises. It is excellent!
Tony

[This message has been edited by BEBOP (edited 06-04-2002).]

BEBOP
Can't speak about any other software, but Norton did find and isolate that same virus on my machine about 3 weeks ago. It appears to me I lost nothing.
Lanny

Hey Sparky, if you need descriptive words why don't you use a dictionary to find something besides cuss words? This has been a clean forum so far, so that must be the way the majority likes it. I, for one, would leave this forum in an instant if people start resorting to using cuss words in their posts. It bothers me and I'm sure it bothers others too, since we are slightly more advanced than chat-room groupies.

Pardon my ignorance, but do you only get virus infected on opening an attachment or can it be infected from a plain email?
Can you pick up a virus from a web site?
Can a hacker get into your site and infect it?

Peter

PS Agree with you Bud.

Peter, you can pick up a virus from email by opening attachments, but not by reading the message. It used to be that a web site was safe, but they are finding out that nasty operaters and hackers can attack your computer from a website and totally mess things up for you. You should always have a firewall installed on your computer when you go out on the web. Windows XP has one built in, but others can buy a commercial product or use a free one, like ZoneAlarm, which is available at their website. Also, make sure your email provider scans any incoming mail for bugs, like Hotmail does.

Thanks Bud.
The world is an even more dangerous place than I thought. Going for my firewall now!!

Peter

Hi Bud
Im with you all the way on keeping the Forum Clean let's hope it was an over site on Sparky's part, I do agree with him on Norton though, I am running 2002 with XP and the firewall,so feel quite safe, but anything is possible I suppose.
Mike

You are right Bud. I apologize. I was not real happy that Bebop got a virus and had to reformat. And not happy with mcaffe. I will not be cussing any more. But I didn't say really bad words now did I? hehe

HI
I was not happy macaffee either, so i uninstalled it also, i am using AVG now ,by grysoft,it is free and updates are free, cought beebops virus about a month ago it removed ,no problems after that,www.GRISOFT .com,best regards,BENNO

I'm using Norton 2002 with 'Live Update' set which keeps it up-to-date. I used to have PC-cillin, but switched to Norton when PC-cillin failed to pick up a particular virus. (This wasn't the latest version of PC-cillin although I was receiving regular pattern updates.)

I also have the free version of ZoneAlarm installed and it is suprising how often it blocks an attempt from someone (or probably some system) trying to get into my PC.

My daughter and her husband were asking me about getting an internet connection for their computer, and I told them they must budget for anti-virus software. It is unfortunately essential, and a firewall like ZoneAlarm is also advisable.

Mike

I was told otherwise. Can you direct me to some documentation of this? Everything I've read suggests that simply "reading" emails is always safe. What am I missing?

it is quite possible to get infected by reading an email without opening an attachment (see the Bubble Boy virus and successors), though much more common to get infected by a word or excel document, since macros are easily hidden in these. To prevent this happening open the attachment with a viewer, rather than the microsoft application which will automatically run the macro.

more bad viruses that do real harm are spread by floppy than email in reality, particularly nasty boot sector viruses.

XP is a huge step backwards in security terms, generally speaking, because of their stupid authentication and auto update type features that no one wants or asked for.

I have all the anti virus programs but never use them because they interfere too much with the way I use the pc. I do NOT recommend others do the same.

I just throw away all attachments from people I don't know, and was not expecting. Besides I can boot from a cd and restore the entire system in 5 minutes from a ghost image, the best protection you can have, but in years of computing have not had a single infection get through yet, so do not get paranoid about viruses, there is much exageration and myth put about by newspapers who don't know what they're talking about and vested interests wanting to sell you solutions, plus much hoaxing.

AVG and Sophos probably have the best reputation amongst the professionals. If you can live with Norton taking over your system, (I can't) stick with it. McAfee has not got a good reputation, and PCcillin never had.

The next generation of html email programs will open a new door to java and vbs attack so will need to be intelligently designed to be safe i.e. if done by microsoft will be guaranteed full of huge security holes.

these have all been around a few years now. Any of the good anti virus sites have descriptions of these. Just put bubbleboy in the search engine... that was the first of its kind.

Sparky, I cleaned up your post a tad to keep us all out of trouble. WE understand but please don't get too excited and let your fingers slip
Thank you Alec and others for a lot of good solid info here. We always need sound and accurate info rather then sales hype and conjecture that we get so much exposure to.
I started out with the Version 1 of Norton but replaced it early on with McAfee when they started. I have never had a virus since I replaced Norton, until now and NOW was my own fault. I opened an attachment that I was expecting from a friend and it was the W32/KLEZ.H-- real nasty worm. The first thing it does is defeat everything you have in your puter to defeat it, starting with your virus program, also including the cd drives, Adaptec,the restore cab files, and key OS files. You must have an emergencgy start disc to get the computer running again, then restore macafee to eliminate 89 infected files, then use the restore disc to restore to the last backup, in my case the 25 of May, so I only lost files between may 25 and June 3. I think I got the computer down before it sent out any, or many reproduced virus to names and addys in my computer. I apologize to anyone that might have received this virus due to my stupidity. I had shut Macafee down to do computer maintainece as Macafee keeps accessing the hard drive and slowing down this operation. I opened the attachment from my friend and it was not what I was expecting. It was a copy of the virus that she was asking advice about. LIVE AND LEARN, yes even at my age.
I have had Macafee Online Clinic since it started. Pay for it by the year, it checks the computer everymorning at startup, and downloads new dats automatically when they are released by Mcafee every day or two, or three. It auto checks all incoming and outgoing mail and files. I also do a weekly rescan of over 40,000 files in this small main frame. I am pleased with it and will stay with them. I get maybe 4 virus a day mailed to me and I recognize most of them and delete them but when I miss Macafee never does.
That is my story,
Best to all
Bebop

Hi Bebop,

Sorry to hear of your virus problems. I can understand everyone's comments to you on McAffee. For many years it had a very good reputation, but then the last few years it has really slipped in reputation. If it works for you, then that's great, but many have had problems with virus's slipping through. My husband swears by Norton. I don't use Norton, but do have Zone Alarm Pro on that monitor's email. I use F-Prot for Dos when I want to run a virus catcher. I am like ALec on that, I dont' want a problem running all the time like that. I'm very careful on attachments. I use Eudora for email and never use preview. The old rule was that you couldn't get a virus without opening an attachment, but some now can get you if you have the e-mail program set up to preview e-mail...which many of them default to.

Just my two cents.

Marilyn

You're pretty safe with Eudora - just because it is not widespread, and virus writers concentrate on outlook foibles (of which there are many to choose from) - IF you can succeed in porting across your existing messages and addresses!!

Hi Technicsplayer,

Everyone better check their email for unwanted messages. I received an email supposedly from you that was nothing more than an attached file. It was a virus. Have Norton on my computer and that took care of it, so no problem. Just want to make sure that everyone checks theirs. Amazingly the same day I received an email from Keybstud that was an attachment that was infected also. All of us on the Forum must watch what we open up. Make sure the email has a specific personal note within the body that tells you it is legitimate before you make an attempt to open any attachment.

Carol

[This message has been edited by Sissle (edited 06-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Sissle (edited 06-05-2002).]

Not from me Carol, because you are not even in my address book !!!

Either from someone else who is infected who has me in their address book, or else someone pretending to be me.

I usually get a spurt of viruses sent to me after a post such as the above. Those with long memories of the forums will know that there have been people of very questionable honesty and integrity who I have, shall I say, exposed over the years here and elsewhere...

Hi Carol,

Also not from me keybstud@sccoast.net you are
not in my address book, and I seldom post on
the forum.

Walt

...... over the past 6 mos or so I've received at least 2 viruses that were caught by the virus software .... McAfee in the office, Norton at home ..... the apparent purpose of the first was to overload the system with e-mail, as it just sent itself to everyone on the infected computer's address list .... the second was the one BeBop refers to (W32/KEZ....)
In neither case did the sender have any idea the virus was sent by their computer.....
t.

Carol's mail seems to have been sent by a classic worm virus from a machine with Carol, Walt and myself in the address book.

This can self replicate and sends itself out to everyone in the address book, choosing random addresses and servers from the address book to put in the FROM field, so as to make you think it came from somewhere else.

In fact quite a good description of the Klez virus!

It certainly did not come from me.

if you are worried about this and want to disinfect for sure go to the Symantec web site to downloads and virus removal tools and look up Klez and download the free program to get rid of it. You usually have to run these in dos or windows safe mode for best effect depending on instructions.

if dos:
save the file directly to your c:\ drive.
reboot hitting F8 before windows has a chance to start.
select command prompt only.
at the c:\ prompt type the file name and press enter.
wait for completion of scan.
when finished press ctrl+alt+del to restart windows.
Move the file out of the root of your c: drive to an archive where you can find it again if needing it.
Don't mess with any other files in the root of your c:\ drive!

if windows safe mode:
do the same but choose safe mode instead of command prompt.
go to file and double click on it.
wait for completion of scan.
reboot.



[This message has been edited by technicsplayer (edited 06-06-2002).]

Hi Walt and Alec,

Didn't mean to imply that it came from either of you two. I apologize if it sounded that way. Just wanted to make sure everyone on the Forum was aware that someone who frequents these pages and has us in their address book is infected so we all need to be careful with the files we open.

Carol

I know you didn't mean it that way Carol just trying to help with as much useful info as possible...

Hi Guys

I have used Norton for years and have also recieved the viruses mentioned thankfully norton sorts them it is a good program but like Alec states in can take over the PC you just have to be aware when loading new software etc unfortunately lots of people buy new Computers which includes an anti-virus package and think that's it no one probably informs them that they require regular updates or else.
So take care everyone

perhaps I should also add: do not believe mails you recieve warning about the latest terribly destructive virus and urgently advising you to look up and delete something on your computer.

Go straight to a anti virus site and check the information out.

This is a very common hoax tactic, and you will find you have deleted a necessary and important component of windows, thus self-inflicting damage to your computer.

Likewise don't believe everything you read on bulletin boards and forums without checking it out yourself, another great way of spreading hoaxes.

Stay Cool

I operate two computers. One on the Internet and the other to take care of protected business and hobbies. (Photo, Music etc)

The Internet computer is Broad Band connected. I ran a firewall (Zone Alarm Pro) and Norton. Zone Alarm defeated the reason for choosing Broad Band..Speed. No matter what setting I used for security it was slow going and finally would not let me into the Net. (Kim Komando NewsLetter had an article about ZA and found it had flaws).
I no longer use a Firewall.

I post and read on only two Forums an belong to an Organ International Club. This is my only contact with the world other than trusted Web sites.

Many of my friends and some of the forum members like to share jokes that they receive. This I believe has caused the two hardrive formats I had in two years because of Virus. One Virus (name unknown) added about 100 namaes to my address book. Most were AOL address's.

I will not open any attachment that is not well known to me.

What a shame we cannot exchange thoughts freely without the fear of a Virus. A sign of the times.

Fran in Florida

On a much lighter note, please accept this Irish Virus with my compliments.
No Anti Virus Programme has detected it yet!!!
Walter

Dear Receiver,

You have just received an Irish virus.

Since we are not so technologically advanced in Ireland, this is a MANUAL virus


Please delete all the files on your hard disk yourself and send this mail to everyone you know.

That'd be grand, tanx.

Paddy O'Hacker

And this is something I can see every day. Probably because of my webpage, there are quite a lot of people around the world who have added my mailadresses in the adressbooks.
Incoming mails containing vorms have been very common the last months, about 2 and 3 every day.
Also that our mailadresses are visible at the forums around is a great danger.
Sadly there are some people who derive satisfaction from spreading this worm and virus stuff, but what is it that make them feel any satisfaction when they make damage for the ordinary webusers around?

I don't bother to send out any warnings anymore, not even look at the properties for the senders mailadresses, because it is so much written and talked about how to protect yourself against this fast spreading "illness".
A look into the incoming mailbox through webmail before it's even downloaded to the PC is also a very good way to avoid those "attacks". Then all mails containing enclosures not expected, included spam, can be deleted from the server before downloading anything, and then this stuff won't reach the PC at all.

Anyway, just because, (as too often), I had to be burned before I learned
Therefore, in addition to use updated virusprotection, I do as Alec describe, take total backup of my HD regulary just in case. Then it's quick and easy to restore if nessesary.......
Kind regards,
GJ

For those that do not like Norton AV taking over their computer I have used eTrust EZ Antivirus and the predecessor called InnoculateIT for over 2 years.
http://www.my-etrust.com/

Used to be free for personal use but for ~ 1 year is $20.00 to purchase plus updates for a year and after that $10.00/year to renew. Free 30 day trial to see if you like it. I just use it, not involved with the company.

Hi BeBop,
I don't post here very often. I have a Yamaha
PSR-2000. So I mostly post on
General Arranger Forum. But I saw this thread the other day. And guess what! Someone sent me the same viris this orning! It was the W32?KLEZ.H-- worm!
My Norton AntiViris Scan caught it.
Helped me clean it and delet it.
Well I had some other e-mails to read.
Whilst I was doing that hear it came again.
Had to go through the whole thing again.
Well this time I also blocked the sender,and turned off my Outlook Express E-mail!
Still being a little unsure about the
thing,I went to the web, so I could take a look at my e-mail while it was still on the sender! There it was again laying on the sender with two emails behind it!
I deleted all three after reading the other two!
This thing was being sent to me by someone
called "Darlene" I have no idea who that could be!
I think I'm clear of it now! I not sure!
All the Best,
Nobby


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[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 06-08-2002).]

I've been using AVG anti-virus software for some time now - it's free and seems to work well. Updates are regular and also free.
Another really good investment is a program called 'Go Back' which allows you to revert your hard disc back in time, to a point where everything was working OK. You can revert your drive even if you can't boot into Windows since the program initiates before Windows loads. You can also selectively recover files after reverting. It has got me out of 'bother' quite a few times. It really is worth the money!
Anyone interested should have a look here http://www.roxio.com/en/products/goback/

------------------
Willum

[This message has been edited by Bill Norrie (edited 06-09-2002).]

yes, great program. They were bought out by Norton, or else Norton licenses Go Back because they include it in System Works. Norton bought out Ghost too from the inventors, maybe.