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#502257 - 02/15/21 11:13 AM Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
What is the anticipated release date for the Yamaha Genos 2?

The Yamaha Genos was released in October of 2017.

What would be the 3 most important enhancements or new features that would appeal to current Genos owners?

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#502259 - 02/16/21 12:21 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
tassiespirit Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 554
Loc: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Originally Posted By Tapas
What is the anticipated release date for the Yamaha Genos 2?

The Yamaha Genos was released in October of 2017.

What would be the 3 most important enhancements or new features that would appeal to current Genos owners?



Tapas, Ver 2.0 came out in November 2019 for the Genos update; so I am guessing you are aluding to a Genos "2" being a replacement revamped keyboard - like a Genos X2 maybe to diferentiate it from the Tyros line of 2,3,4 and 5.

If so, I hope they do continue with the current arranger TOTL machine and see that it is a great option for those who GIG at home and record their great music for online consumption, as this world is still upside down. The arranger keyboards can still hold their own in many forms and in many formates, we just have to adapt.

Allan
_________________________
The problem is not the problem...The problem is your attitude to the problem.

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#502260 - 02/16/21 12:58 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
The Genos is a hugely comprehensive instrument so are you sure you have you used all of its capabilities, or are you just hoping a new version will make you sound better, if so then you will be disappointed as it’s the player that makes the performance not the instrument. (Practice, Practice, Practice, it is a lot cheaper than buying a new instrument and will allow you to sound more fantastic then any new instrument will)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#502262 - 02/16/21 06:20 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1662
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Assuming the Genos uses .sty files - there are literally thousands of song specific style files freely available on the internet.
_________________________
Roger M

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#502264 - 02/16/21 09:31 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
One small improvement that might be welcome in the Yamaha’s OS is the ability to name each of the chord sequencer’s eight sections in the body of the graphic to select it rather than tiny text above the selection area.

Big print with ‘Verse’, ‘Chorus’, ‘Solo’ etc. would make it a LOT easier to remember which section does what when gigging.

Yamaha always show the area as having chords displayed, but there’s not enough room for that if the sequence is more than a couple of bars long. Which they usually are. Allow the user to select what gets displayed, the feature gets MUCH easier to operate.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502265 - 02/16/21 10:16 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I think, as general arranger sales decline, and Covid decimates the employment opportunities for musicians that can afford a high ticket keyboard like the Genos or PA4X etc., we are going to see a wholesale change to the pace of new development.

This might present an opportunity for arranger manufacturers to focus on OS updates as a selling point, and to work on secure content delivery, as in new style packs and sounds that can’t be traded around to bring in revenue while new hardware is developed.

The days of Yamaha churning out a new model little different from the last every three years is likely over. The Genos/SX900 models are a true generational change, and may represent a more five year+ path for R&D between models. That certainly seems to be the trend at Korg...

There are definitely OS improvements that the Genos could benefit from. But I am hard pressed to think of a hardware one it needs. 256 voices, 28 insert effects, it’s a generation ahead of Korg’s 128 voices and 4 inserts.

As long as Yamaha keep churning out new Style Packs and sound expansions and work on a few tweaks to the OS and make sure they can’t be pirated, I doubt anyone will stop buying the current hardware...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502269 - 02/17/21 12:32 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Thank you everyone for your valuable input.

Yes, I agree the Yamaha Genos is a trailblazer in the world of arrangers. Yamaha has stood behind their customers with the latest Genos OS 2.0 update.

This feature rich and incredibly capable instrument will continue to inspire their owners for years to come.

What would be your thoughts in adding new capabilities in a future release of the Genos line?


I will give you two examples.


Example 1:

How about including all the Arpeggios from the Yamaha MONTAGE?

You can create Arpeggios with up to 8 simultaneous parts. There are 10,239 factory presets.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/montage/specs.html



Example 2:

How about adding the ability to control pitch via Horizontal Touch?

This is a feature found on Yamaha’s Electone STAGEA ELS-02C.

This is explained on Page-43 of the Owner’s Manual.

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/1087307/els02_en_om_e0.pdf

You can control the pitch by holding down a key and moving it laterally side to side.

Alex Payler demos this feature as he plays the James Bond Theme on the ELS-02C at the 1min 21sec mark.

https://youtu.be/CRHW1LtD804?t=79

Here are a couple of inspiring performances by aki-Electone on this fine instrument.


You Raise Me Up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN74-uIwqQ8


Winter Games / David Foster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8AgbtE4cUg


Here is another jaw dropping rendition of Star Wars on the Yamaha ELS-02C by 826aska.

https://youtu.be/2ordemYEdMg?t=37


Why is the Horizontal Touch important?

Well, your right hand is playing the upper keyboard. Your left hand is playing the lower keyboard. Your right foot is controlling the expression pedal and your left foot is playing the bass pedals.

Having a pitch bend/modulation wheel would not be practical in an ELS-02C.

The Yamaha Genos has a Joystick. You can control the pitch with this.

However, what happens when you decide to combine the Genos with an 88-key piano action keyboard, say the Yamaha MONTAGE 8?

I personally like the Roland RD-700GX for its superb piano action that includes key escapement.

So, now you have dual manuals. You have the best of both worlds. You have fast synth action on the top manual while being able to enjoy a dedicated 88-note weighted piano action on the lower manual.

Here is where Horizontal Touch comes in handy when both your hands are occupied.

The Yamaha Electone ELS-02C is not sold in the US. It can be imported from Japan for about $10,000.

https://www.tarotrade.com/shop/electone-1/brand-new-stagea-els-02c-custom-detail





Edited by Tapas (02/17/21 12:37 AM)

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#502271 - 02/17/21 08:27 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: abacus]
Steve A Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 388
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By abacus
The Genos is a hugely comprehensive instrument so are you sure you have you used all of its capabilities, or are you just hoping a new version will make you sound better?

Bill


Of course it will...6 grand worth ????
_________________________
Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com
Korg Pa4x 76...TASCAM DP24 & DP24 SD. Studio One 6 Professional with a FADER PORT 16. 1969 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha Red Label Nippon Gakki. Breedlove American CME 25. Neumann TLM-49

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#502279 - 02/18/21 03:01 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
kharri Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 60
I was talking to a major retailer and asked the same question. He said they have good contacts at Yamaha and due to the current market conditions, he was told 2-3 years before they would release a new model.
He said sales were still good on the current Genos model.

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#502280 - 02/18/21 03:23 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Robbo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
Don’t need a Genos 2 all of the requested updates can b achieved by updates generally. The bigger question is if Roland and Korg can come up with a better unit.

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#502302 - 02/21/21 02:19 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Roland are history.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502308 - 02/22/21 08:17 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
There is a lot that can be improved on the Genos ,at first the finish and build quality is a shame for this price category
8 Gb Flash mem ( ore more)
Oled screen ( very high def)
metal case finish, black
on board voice editor or better pc software ( like the MX/montage series)
new foot pedal like the Mfc10 and all the controls
smaller design of case ( like Korg)
better I-pad integration, or android apps
Multi Pad Quantisator
HDMi output ( not a silly adapter)
YC61 sound engine
Full style editor
Automatic VH like that other top arranger (Pa4) smile
better Rotary effect with decent overdrive programmable
a decent replacement form YEM ( it’s terrible now)
And a better Yamaha website for software , Musicsoft is the worst site i ever workt with

I cool
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Genos2,Yamaha YC61, Ventilator2 . : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA

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#502309 - 02/22/21 08:53 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Impuls]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Impuls
There is a lot that can be improved on the Genos ,at first the finish and build quality is a shame for this price category
8 Gb Flash mem ( ore more)
Oled screen ( very high def)
metal case finish, black
on board voice editor or better pc software ( like the MX/montage series)
new foot pedal like the Mfc10 and all the controls
smaller design of case ( like Korg)
better I-pad integration, or android apps
Multi Pad Quantisator
HDMi output ( not a silly adapter)
YC61 sound engine
Full style editor
Automatic VH like that other top arranger (Pa4) smile
better Rotary effect with decent overdrive programmable
a decent replacement form YEM ( it’s terrible now)
And a better Yamaha website for software , Musicsoft is the worst site i ever workt with

I cool


I agree your list of suggested improvements!

Each one would be a worthy enhancement to the GENOS 2.

I would like to have a USB 3.0 port for faster file transfers. YEM is slow.

Not knowing when Yamaha would be releasing the GENOS 2, I decided to order the current model from Frank Ventresca, owner of AudioProCT.com

I have a feeling Yamaha already has the GENOS 2 ready for production. They are simply holding on to see what Korg comes up with the Pa5X. The moment Korg announces the Pa5X, Yamaha would reveal the GENOS 2 and blow out the competition.

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#502310 - 02/22/21 09:13 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
dud Offline
Member

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 226
Loc: israel
I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE GENOS2 OR KORG PAX5 OR ANY NEW FLAGSHIP , BECAUSE WE THE OLD PEOPLE WHO STILL USE ARRANGERS NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GIVE THE COMPANEIS CHANCE TO EARN ENOUGH MONEY.
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#502311 - 02/22/21 10:32 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: dud]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By dud
I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE GENOS2 OR KORG PAX5 OR ANY NEW FLAGSHIP , BECAUSE WE THE OLD PEOPLE WHO STILL USE ARRANGERS NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GIVE THE COMPANEIS CHANCE TO EARN ENOUGH MONEY.


I agree these top of the line arrangers from Yamaha and Korg have more features and capabilities than what an Arranger Player would care to explore and exploit their full potential.

However, hardware costs are falling every year. Sometimes it is hard to get the same Motherboard after 5 years. This is the reason Manufacturers go for a Hardware redesign every 5 years or so. With falling prices and powerful chips they can afford to cram in more voices, effects, sound engines and features without increasing the price.

I have a feeling Yamaha will announce the GENOS 2 in October this year followed by a release in NAMM 2022. It will be a worthy successor to the announcement of the original GENOS in October 2017.

I also believe they will keep the same price point and incorporate many of the enhancements requested by the user community.

Some enhancements like adding the 10,239 Arpeggios from the MONTAGE should be easy.

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#502312 - 02/22/21 10:45 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I would like to see the GENOS 2 come equipped with MIDI 2.0 specs.

That alone will raise the bar to new heights. Think of all the possibilities when you set up the GENOS 2 as the hub of your studio with connected devices.

Roland has reincarnated the original A-88 MIDI Keyboard Controller as the new A-88 MKII with MIDI 2.0 and USB-C connectivity.

https://www.roland.com/global/products/a-88mk2/

Technology is marching forward. No one can afford to stay in the same spot for very long and survive.

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#502316 - 02/22/21 11:24 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
If the GENOS 2 comes with MIDI 2.0, it would be a breeze to connect other MIDI 2.0 capable devices like external controllers, sound modules, digital mixers, control surfaces, etc.

The communication would be 2-way and the configuration would be automatic since MIDI 2.0 devices can see each others properties.

This article encapsulates the world of possibilities with the MIDI 2.0 specs finalized by the MIDI Association.

https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/details-about-midi-2-0-midi-ci-profiles-and-property-exchange

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#502318 - 02/23/21 09:25 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
While there’s a few of us that embrace 21st century workflows, let’s not get too ahead of ourselves. It’s probably not incorrect to assume that the vast majority of even TOTL arrangers are played by folk with little interest in MIDI 2.0, handshaking with control surfaces, digital mixers etc.!

You are expecting a huge investment from Yamaha to promote features that at best would appeal to 5% of their customer base. In these troubled economic times, I wouldn’t fault Yamaha for pausing on further hardware progress, especially as they already have a considerable lead already.

We often conflate progress with computers with progress for keyboards. Nothing could be further from the truth. Computers, tablets, smartphones, these are produced by the hundreds of millions and generate billions in profits. Arrangers, OTOH, sell in thousands at best and make obviously far less. So the R&D budget is tiny. That they are as advanced as they already are is astounding! But expecting parity with progress of an industry thousands of times more profitable is pie in the sky, I’m afraid...

Keyboards were still using SCSI long after the computer industry dropped it. Same with USB 1, then USB 2.0, now 3. And don’t get me started about data pipes to transfer samples into an arranger!

We are a tiny subset of a tiny niche of a tiny total market. We’re lucky they even make them!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502319 - 02/23/21 10:57 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Diki
While there’s a few of us that embrace 21st century workflows, let’s not get too ahead of ourselves. It’s probably not incorrect to assume that the vast majority of even TOTL arrangers are played by folk with little interest in MIDI 2.0, handshaking with control surfaces, digital mixers etc.!

You are expecting a huge investment from Yamaha to promote features that at best would appeal to 5% of their customer base. In these troubled economic times, I wouldn’t fault Yamaha for pausing on further hardware progress, especially as they already have a considerable lead already.

We often conflate progress with computers with progress for keyboards. Nothing could be further from the truth. Computers, tablets, smartphones, these are produced by the hundreds of millions and generate billions in profits. Arrangers, OTOH, sell in thousands at best and make obviously far less. So the R&D budget is tiny. That they are as advanced as they already are is astounding! But expecting parity with progress of an industry thousands of times more profitable is pie in the sky, I’m afraid...

Keyboards were still using SCSI long after the computer industry dropped it. Same with USB 1, then USB 2.0, now 3. And don’t get me started about data pipes to transfer samples into an arranger!

We are a tiny subset of a tiny niche of a tiny total market. We’re lucky they even make them!


I completely agree with your viewpoint that we represent a tiny niche in the market.

The Yamaha GENOS with its 256 voice polyphony, 491 Pro Styles, 75 Super Articulation 2 Voices, a vast arsenal of studio quality effects (358 Presets) and the ability to use 28 insert effects puts is ahead of the competition.

The Yamaha GENOS is a statement product. It has everything to keep an Arranger Player happy for many years to come.

On the other hand, the capabilities of MIDI 2.0 are tantalizing.

This Webinar discussing the MIDI 2.0 specs that was held on May 25th, 2019 explains the concepts behind Profile Configuration, Property Exchange, Protocol Negotiation and Universal MIDI Packets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NlLsUJn16M

With the current MIDI protocol, you can transmit up to 16 MIDI Channels. MIDI 2.0 introduces the concept of Groups. Each Group can have up to 16 MIDI Channels. So you get 256 MIDI Channels through a single MIDI cable.

MIDI 2.0 devices can query properties from connected devices. This means a Digital Audio Workstation will immediately know the names of the Patches of the MIDI 2.0 capable GENOS.

A MIDI 2.0 capable MONTAGE would instantly interface with the GENOS and act as a dual manual.

Imagine if some point in the future Yamaha releases the GENOS 2 with MIDI 2.0 specs and then surprise the NAMM audience by using a next generation MONTAGE to act as a controller with its faders automatically mapped and then use the next generation CUBASE to record and edit a performance with all the Patch Names being displayed without having to manually enter a patch list.

Think of how much time was wasted in the past trying to find a Sonar Instrument Definition File (.INS) or a Cubase Patch List or Logic Environment for your favorite keyboard or sound module.

MIDI 2.0 will greatly simplify the workflow.

The technology is already here.

I hope we don’t have to wait too long for the market to support this initiative.



Edited by Tapas (02/23/21 11:00 AM)

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#502326 - 02/25/21 10:20 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By Diki
So the R&D budget is tiny.


In fact it is so tiny that the Genos firmware (style playing engine) is no meaningfully different than it was in Tyros 1. Probably even older than that, but unfortunately, although not a boy anymore, I am too young to go further back.....

It is a marketing miracle how they can resell the same product over and over again, mostly to the same customers (which in the meanwhile got silver haired). It is as if Microsoft would be still selling Windows 3.1, with some marginal repackaging. At jewelry prices.
_________________________
Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#502336 - 02/27/21 08:45 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Yeah... it’s amazing how car manufacturers keep selling boxes with wheels at each corner and an engine to get you around!

Where’s those damn flying cars we were promised back in the 50’s? 😂

If the progress that Yamaha made doubling the polyphony and upping the insert effects to 28 amongst other very significant changes isn’t enough for you, you might be setting your expectations a bit high! There’s an awful lot more to an arranger than the raw style engine.

What exactly were you hoping for?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502337 - 02/27/21 09:12 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Those flying cars have been around for many years, but the cost is still out of sight. A cheap flying car is about $250,000 but there are alternatives, such as flying motor cycles that go for about $20,000 and up. smile

Now, I seriously doubt that Yamaha will double it's polyphony any time in the near future - Why? Mainly because most folks couldn't hear the difference, including myself. I kind of look at it this way - If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Most of the pro players I know, and that's a lot of players, DO NOT edit anything. Instead, they fire up their keyboard, play the job and hope the check don't bounce. It's that simple. Of course, I'm old and a bit old fashioned. wink

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#502338 - 02/27/21 09:41 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: travlin'easy]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
aaaaaaaah! I feel much better after reading your post Gary. I was beginning to think my years were affecting my thinking.

1-Unpack the new keyboard
2-Study the options
3-Make a playlist
4-Then, enjoy playing song after song.
Small chages are made along the way.

This is my opinion, John C.

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#502346 - 02/27/21 07:41 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Diki
Yeah... it’s amazing how car manufacturers keep selling boxes with wheels at each corner and an engine to get you around!

Where’s those damn flying cars we were promised back in the 50’s? 😂

If the progress that Yamaha made doubling the polyphony and upping the insert effects to 28 amongst other very significant changes isn’t enough for you, you might be setting your expectations a bit high! There’s an awful lot more to an arranger than the raw style engine.

What exactly were you hoping for?




Hi Diki,

I agree with you that Yamaha took the Arranger World by surprise when they released the GENOS in 2017. No other Arranger Keyboard can match the 28 insert effects of the GENOS even today.

These effects help bring out the polished studio quality backing tracks and lead voices. The Yamaha GENOS sounds stellar.

What really makes owning a GENOS so attractive is the eco-system that Yamaha has built around it.

Yamaha went the extra mile supporting their user base by releasing all OS updates for free and offering 59 Voice & Style Expansion Packs for free:

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/contents/keyboards/vse/index.html

Within this staggering collection of voices, styles and registrations there is something for everybody. They used to cost around $100 per pack.

Yamaha has their MusicSoft website where you can download the Premium Quality XF Midi Files optimized for your GENOS.

https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/downloadables

Then we have all these Forums and Websites set up by Yamaha Arranger Fans that offer a wealth of Styles, Midi Files, Lessons, Technical Help and Tips & Tricks that puts a new owner at ease.

Let me list a few:


1.
The SynthZone Forum run by Nigel

http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/37/1/General_Arranger_Keyboard_Foru

This is the premiere forum for professional Keyboard Players. Every question gets answered by the experts from around the world.

We are already here!!


2.
The PSR Tutorial Forum

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/

This forum is dedicated to Yamaha Arrangers. It was set up by Joe Waters 20 years ago and now Roger Brenizer helps with the administration.

I was completely stunned when I realized the size of their resource library comprising of Midi Files, Song Styles and MP3 files of actual performances.

Although one can download everything piece meal, it is much more convenient to have Gary copy the products you want on a thumb drive and mail it to you for a small price.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/cdrom/productsum.html

I was delighted with my purchase. It showcases the talents of the Yamaha user base.

No other keyboard manufacturer has anything that parallels what Joe has done to popularize the Yamaha Arranger Keyboards.


3.
Create Song Styles

https://createsongstyles.com/

You can find Lead Sheets, PDFs, Yamaha Song Styles, MIDI Files, MP3 Files for almost every Song you can think of.

The membership is $20/year which is very reasonable.


4.
Yamaha Keyboard Players Forum

https://www.yamahakeyboardplayers.com/

This forum was set up by Eileen Lowry. She is an accomplished player and an expert on the Yamaha GENOS. She answers every single question. This is her life, her passion.


5.

Yamaha Musicians Forum

https://www.yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=160

This is another great resource to have your technical questions answered on the GENOS.


6.
Strawberry Music Ltd

https://www.strawberrymusicltd.com/

This company is run by Neil Blake.

He has painstakingly developed several products for the Yamaha GENOS. They come with the printed Music Book and 10 GENOS Registrations for each of the 100 songs for a total of 1000 registrations.

Neil has his YouTube Channel where he demonstrates his products by playing a few of the songs using his registrations.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0Fvpt5m4-EMuxkXQEKKH7w/videos

You could take his thumb drive and begin to play on your GENOS without having to think about what Style to use and what Voices to layer for a specific song.


7.
Easy Sounds

https://easysoundsshop.de/yamaha-electronic-keyboards/yamaha-genos/

One of the third party sources that design excellent sounds for the GENOS.


8.
eBay

You will find as astonishing collection of GENOS Styles and MIDI Files from various sellers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-GENOS-Professional-Styles-and-MIDIS-DOWNLOAD/254684075024

This is a must have collection of 10,000 Styles, 5000 Midi Files and hundreds for Song Styles for your GENOS.


9.
YouTube

Want to see what the Yamaha GENOS is capable of?

Search for Peter Baartmans, Martin Harris or Michel Voncken.

There are too many jaw-dropping performances by these keyboard wizards to list.

Add to that all the inspiring performances uploaded by various GENOS fans.


10.
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/fora.htm

This website run by Jørgen Sørensen has a treasure trove of free MIDI Utilities to maximize the potential of your GENOS.

You can spend days and months deep diving into these fascinating programs.


11.
Frank Ventresca

https://www.AudioProCT.com

Frank is the owner of AudioProCT , in Milford, Connecticut.

All it takes is one email to Frank@AudioProCT.com and he would deliver your GENOS at your doorstep at a fair price well below all major music retailers.

Frank alone is responsible for over half of all Arranger sales in the US. He is a musician who loves arrangers.


Why am I listing all these sources?


It is to remind a prospective buyer that an exhaustive feature set with tons of bells and whistles does not automatically make an Arranger Keyboard become the market leader.


It also must come with a supporting eco-system.


Users must be able to communicate, share ideas, songs, styles and have a platform to showcase their work.

They must be able to buy their gear from reliable sources at a fair price from a person they trust.

By some sheer luck, the Yamaha GENOS community has grown to becoming a nurturing environment for new and seasoned owners.

If you buy a GENOS, you will be in good hands!

Yes, there are many improvements that can be introduced down the line. This does not take away from the fact that Yamaha has put a lot of thought and effort into designing their flagship GENOS Arranger Keyboard.

We can look back in time and see how much Yamaha has pushed the Arranger Technology.

I remember purchasing a Yamaha PC1000 keyboard that used PlayCards. This predates MIDI.

Looking back what we had then, you cannot dismiss the Yamaha GENOS or the Yamaha Clavinova CVP 809GP as a rehash of old technology.

Every generation has helped expand the envelope of possibilities.

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#502347 - 02/28/21 01:03 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By Diki

If the progress that Yamaha made doubling the polyphony and upping the insert effects to 28 amongst other very significant changes isn’t enough for you, you might be setting your expectations a bit high! There’s an awful lot more to an arranger than the raw style engine.

What exactly were you hoping for?


Well, to start with, as I already pointed out to you in a previous thread (months ago):

1) The Genos can theoretically only use 12 inserts in style playing. And most factory styles use at most 5 or 6 (sometimes even less). As it was the case in previous Tyroses. I bet most Genos owners do not even know how to set an insert, let alone know how many of them you have available. And anyway it always holds the law of diminishing returns: a few inserts are useful, ten inserts are seldom detectable in practical use, 100 inserts are useless. What would be useful is to stack 2 inserts per channel, a thing the Genos firmware will not let you do.

2) The advertised 256 note polyphony is an half backed feature that is of limited use. All the factory voices can only use 128 notes polyphony (as any humble PSR), the remaining 128 notes can only be used by the expansion pack voices (Yamaha, understandably, does not advertise this!). So, NONE of the factory styles can exploit polyphony in excess of 128 notes. And even if you install expansion packs, the chances to use extended polyphony is pretty slim, and as Gary said nobody will ever notice in practical use.

Once we have cleared these points, I must say than an arranger is primarily bought for its realtime arranging capabilities (features and content). These are the features that put it in another class than many other competing products, which are often more capable and cheaper in the "sound synthesis" capabilities. Nobody would ever buy a Genos if it was not capable of playing styles, although its other general features are substandard in a 2020s product (example: lack of audio over USB, present even in toys, from Yamaha too!).

If I have to judge the Genos for its arranging capabilities (unique selling point), I have to say that they are practically unchanged since 20+ years ago.
This is a fact, you like it or not.

Does the Genos sound good? Yes, absolutely, as it does the previous model(s).

And I still believe that the average player buying a Genos is still the limiting factor. An accomplished player playing any previous model (way back to 20 years ago) will produce a MUCH better result any listener can readily see, despite the lack of the "doubled polyphony" or the "upped 28 insert dsps".

* * *

To answer your last question: we are not hoping anything from Yamaha. It is pretty clear that they are "milking" their arranger platform, and that, as you pointed out, R&D is tiny at best, but probably not existent.

We have developed our own arranging engine that feature wise is vastly superior to Yamaha's. And offers a really enjoyable experience for the player and power user that wants better control and customization, the easy way with a modern touch enabled UI.

I want also to make a spoiler here: this spring we are launching our software also for the Montage/MODX synths. This is a marriage between a state of the art modern realtime arranger engine and the best Yamaha has to offer in sound synthesis. At a fraction of the price of the Genos.

We think that bridging the gap between the arranger and synth worlds we will give an opportunity to many younger musicians that till now may have not considered what a realtime arranger can offer.
_________________________
Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#502348 - 02/28/21 09:27 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: groovyband.live]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By groovyband.live



We have developed our own arranging engine that feature wise is vastly superior to Yamaha's. And offers a really enjoyable experience for the player and power user that wants better control and customization, the easy way with a modern touch enabled UI.

I want also to make a spoiler here: this spring we are launching our software also for the Montage/MODX synths. This is a marriage between a state of the art modern realtime arranger engine and the best Yamaha has to offer in sound synthesis. At a fraction of the price of the Genos.

We think that bridging the gap between the arranger and synth worlds we will give an opportunity to many younger musicians that till now may have not considered what a realtime arranger can offer.




Hi GroovyBank.Live,


Thank you for you very informative post on the limitations on the GENOS and making me aware about your GroovyBand.Live Realtime Arranger Software.

https://www.groovyband.live/


I listened through all your 44 demos. They sound excellent.

I had a few questions.


1.
Were these demos recorded using the GENOS as a sound source?


2.
Can I use a Microsoft Surface Pro 3 tablet that comes with a 12” 2160 x 1440 Touch Screen?


3.
It would be a few weeks before I could test your software on a GENOS.
In the meantime can I use a Yamaha CVP-609 Clavinova as a sound source?

The voice palette is identical to a Tyros 4.

The CVP-609 plays T4, XT4, T3, XT3, XT2, XT, XA, XG and GM midi files.


4.
Can I use any of these Sound Modules as a sound source?

Yamaha MOTIF-RACK XS
Roland INTEGRA- 7
Korg TRITON-Rack


5.
I am intrigued by the fact that your 906 bundled Styles use 8 Mains and 8 Fills. No other hardware arranger does that.

Your Styles can use up to 16 simultaneous effects if the sound generator supports it.

I see that you can easily add a second keyboard to act as a dual manual plus add a pedal board and on top of that add a MIDI Control Surface.

Can the Mackie Control Universal Pro be used with the Realtime Arranger Software?



I think you have designed a fascinating product.

This is the value of being a SynthZone member. You get to learn something new each day.

Best regards,

David Das

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#502352 - 02/28/21 01:32 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
While we always appreciate input from vendors, care must be taken to not go overboard!

28 inserts? Think of it this way... each Keyboard voice uses an insert effect (or at least many do, I’m not that familiar with Yamaha architecture but ever last Roland tone does) but if you want to use a sound you are familiar playing in a style, it needs its insert effect to sound the same. I don’t much care whether the factory programmers have gotten around to using the feature much yet, it’s something I do to everything I use on my Roland. The right phaser on a Rhodes part, the perfect amount of compression on a bass, the use of an amp simulator on a clean guitar rather than those awful sampled distortion abominations makes all the difference. To not have enough to do all the style parts if needed makes for more work scrambling to find alternative sounds that don’t need inserts to sound ‘close’ but never perfect.

This is where Yamaha, Korg and Roland used to be (or still are, especially in Korg’s case). Yeah, 28 is a bit overkill, but I’d rather have too many than too few!

As to polyphony, yes, I know about the restriction for the extra polyphony being for the expansion packs. But with most, those expansions are going to have the main sounds the player is playing, especially polyphony hogs like grand and electric pianos and layer sounds. No offense, but if you can’t hear polyphony issues when you play with a 128 voice arranger with a busy style and a piano/string layer, you aren’t playing enough! Separating the polyphony seems like a decent compromise if the synth architecture can’t handle 256 across the board. Sure beats 128 for everything!

Yamaha are in no way unique in not expanding the style engine’s capabilities much over the years. Truth is, all the hardware arranger makers have pretty much settled down to a tried and tested formula. There’s a degree of compromise between capability and content. Sure, I’d love it if styles had an infinite number of variations, fills and breaks etc., but I’m not sure we’d be getting the degree of new content if making styles turned into a nightmare with at least four times the work needed for one style!

In the end, for the vast majority of arranger players, the provided content is the alpha and omega. The cost of providing it is factored into the arranger’s cost. Now triple or quadruple the cost of the content (the style creators DO get paid, right?!) and watch sales plummet. It’s all well and good to concentrate on only the software end and take potshots at those that create the hardware too, but the economics don’t add up unless you think that the ever dwindling arranger market is capable of absorbing these extra costs. Personally, I don’t...

Groovyband’s solution of a marriage between custom software and established hardware works well, but currently it’s a one manufacturer solution. Are you prepared to be as soundly criticized for not getting around to adapting it for Korg or Roland arrangers or even their workstations, as you criticize those manufacturers you rely on for not expanding their style engines? Cost/benefit problems cut both ways!

To be honest, the most exciting thing I read was the future marriage of Groovyband and a PROPER audio/loop/synth workstation and proper style engine. I have long given up on expecting the manufacturers to do it themselves, and honestly, I don’t think there’s a hope in hell of the hardware of arrangers ever being able to catch up with where workstations have gone!

But where is the Roland Jupiter version, or the Nautilus version? Or is it that commercial pressures impact you as much as Yamaha? 😂


Edited by Diki (02/28/21 01:34 PM)
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502357 - 03/01/21 01:25 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By Tapas

I listened through all your 44 demos. They sound excellent.

1.
Were these demos recorded using the GENOS as a sound source?


No, we have used a PSR S770 (as stated in the pane above the media player). The audio is recorded directly in the S770 with the built-in wav recorder. Sometimes an additional compression is added in post (but you could also use a more aggressive built-in compressor setting).

This, with a PSR S950 (almost equivalent to a S770), is the lowest specced keyboard we advice. If you like what you hear with a PSR S770, then everything else better can only improve things.

The free demo is limited to 4 insert DSPs (as every PSR S) and ships with all the 906 styles we provide. So if you like what you listen with the demo, then things can only improve with more capable commercial versions (and hardware supporting more DSPs, such as Tyros, PSR SX, Genos).

The key thing is: unlike most marketers (which show you the full optional car with underneath the misleading price tag of the base model), we demo the worst result possible. So things can only improve! grin


Originally Posted By Tapas

2.
Can I use a Microsoft Surface Pro 3 tablet that comes with a 12” 2160 x 1440 Touch Screen?


Absolutely yes. If the PC can run Windows 10 64bit, then it can run our software too. The resolution is excellent and also the screen real estate (the most important spec) is perfectly usable.

Our software is highly optimized (entirely written in C++ from scratch) and uses tiny amounts of RAM and processing power. It can run everywhere and consume so little power that the battery will last for hours!

Originally Posted By Tapas

3.
It would be a few weeks before I could test your software on a GENOS.
In the meantime can I use a Yamaha CVP-609 Clavinova as a sound source?

The voice palette is identical to a Tyros 4.

The CVP-609 plays T4, XT4, T3, XT3, XT2, XT, XA, XG and GM midi files.


4.
Can I use any of these Sound Modules as a sound source?

Yamaha MOTIF-RACK XS
Roland INTEGRA- 7
Korg TRITON-Rack



We downloaded the data list of CVP 609. Unfortunately, unlike other Yamaha products, it does NOT include the midi implementation chart and the list of supported sysexes.

We heavily use the Yamaha XG standard with many of its sysexes (as listed on the data list of Yamaha arrangers). If, as I suppose, the CVP uses the same engine (and hence responds to the same sysexes) then it should work as well seamlessly. The Tyros 4 sound palette is perfect.

If you try let us know.


For the same reason, for sure it will NOT work with the other products you mentioned: they are NOT Yamaha XG compliant.


The upcoming Montage/MODX version can work with those synths because we have updated the product to speak their language (different set of sysexes and hardware features). Additionally we have reprogrammed and complemented the whole sound set (1800+ sounds!!) to make it well suited for arranger use and perfectly balanced and homogeneous. It has been a titanic work.

When we declare that we support a sound generator, we mean that we guarantee the same plug & play experience you have with an HW arranger. Switch it on, press play, and you are ready to go.

Of course we will also provide a demo so that everybody will know exactly what they get before committing their money. Not all products provide this user experience and/or let you try before you buy.


Originally Posted By Tapas


Can the Mackie Control Universal Pro be used with the Realtime Arranger Software?



If it can send midi CC (control change) messages and/or note on messages then you can use it.

Within our software you can associate every CC/noteOn to whatever parameter you wish to control. You can have up to 4 different maps you can also switch with a registration (the map # is part of the registration saved parameters).


Originally Posted By Tapas


I think you have designed a fascinating product.



Thanks.

We also listen and respond to all our (prospective) customers. And if they have good ideas we readily implement them in the software.

The software is continuously developed (you can check the changelog) and since we have many more ideas in the funnel (including strategic long term plans we are already working on), it will steadily further improve.
_________________________
Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#502358 - 03/01/21 02:30 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By Diki

Yamaha are in no way unique in not expanding the style engine’s capabilities much over the years. Truth is, all the hardware arranger makers have pretty much settled down to a tried and tested formula. There’s a degree of compromise between capability and content. Sure, I’d love it if styles had an infinite number of variations, fills and breaks etc., but I’m not sure we’d be getting the degree of new content if making styles turned into a nightmare with at least four times the work needed for one style!


Capability and content are largely (but not completely, I agree) orthogonal and independent features.

You can greatly expand the capabilities without touching the content.

You could for example allow to stack 2 inserts per part (still shipping the old styles with only one insert on *some* parts). But the power user could edit them and add the missing inserts.

You *could*. But as a matter of fact Yamaha did not. They developed a silicon chip with the processing power for 28 DSPs, but "forgot" to update the firmware to use this processing power. So, as in the early 90s, you are stuck with one DSP per part. Well, for 12 parts, not 16 as it would be logical. For some reason (maybe a 30 years old half backed spaghetti code buried in their firmware, nobody dares to touch anymore) they decided that 4 midi parts (the multi pads) should not have an insert. Maybe because 30 years ago 1 insert was the most you could ask from the top of the line HW, and nobody would waste it for a multi pad part.

After all a PC with 640 kb of RAM (the limit of an Intel 8086 running MS DOS), should be more than enough for everyone. Right? [Bill Gates, in the 80s].

I could go on with dozens of examples. But you got the idea.


Originally Posted By Diki

Groovyband’s solution of a marriage between custom software and established hardware works well, but currently it’s a one manufacturer solution. Are you prepared to be as soundly criticized for not getting around to adapting it for Korg or Roland arrangers or even their workstations, as you criticize those manufacturers you rely on for not expanding their style engines? Cost/benefit problems cut both ways!


We do not criticize Yamaha for their policy. We just highlight what their policy is. Everybody can rightly decide to milk their old product till the very end to squeeze out as much money as you can without spending a dime.

Just do not expect everybody to praise you for your product innovation, or being "state of the art"!!
And after all it is thanks to those less feature-full arranger engines that we can hope to sell our one!


Originally Posted By Diki

To be honest, the most exciting thing I read was the future marriage of Groovyband and a PROPER audio/loop/synth workstation and proper style engine. I have long given up on expecting the manufacturers to do it themselves, and honestly, I don’t think there’s a hope in hell of the hardware of arrangers ever being able to catch up with where workstations have gone!


We agree. Especially if the general trend of established HW arranger manufacturers is to milk their product lines (targeting wealthy "old" men), without trying to board in young musicians that can fuel the business in the (distant) future.
_________________________
Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#502359 - 03/01/21 02:39 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: groovyband.live]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Hi GroovyBand.Live,

Wow!!

Thanks a million for such a thorough response and addressing every issue.

Your demos sounded so crisp and clean I was fooled into believing you recorded them using the GENOS.

Your programmers certainly know how to make these instruments come alive.

I understand your requirement for the instrument to be XG compliant. This is the common denominator that allows your software to work with the Tyros 3, 4, 5 and the GENOS

This explains all the extra work you had to do to make your product work with the Yamaha MONTAGE/MODX.

Your upcoming product will be a game changer if you can make a professional synth like the MONTAGE behave like an arranger.

I can only imagine how much better the accompaniment will sound with the MONTAGE as the source.

Best of all the price of the MONTAGE 76-key version is about half the price of a GENOS. This translates to huge savings for the end user.

Please keep us informed on your progress.

You have a winning concept that can change the Arranger landscape.

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#502361 - 03/01/21 11:34 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By Tapas
Hi GroovyBand.Live,

Your upcoming product will be a game changer if you can make a professional synth like the MONTAGE behave like an arranger.

I can only imagine how much better the accompaniment will sound with the MONTAGE as the source.

Please keep us informed on your progress.


As soon as we approach the realese date, we will post here (in a dedicated thread) some mp3 samples .....

Stay tuned.
_________________________
Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#502362 - 03/02/21 01:34 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Aside from the arranger capabilities, I am interested to know if a midi player, GM2 exists. Besides styles, I also use Notation Composer in my laptop, but not satisfied with the sound compared to top arrangers.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#502370 - 03/02/21 05:58 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
If the provided content doesn’t fully utilize a next gen capability, it’s not a recipe for success...

Take Roland’s last couple of arrangers - The EA7 has a decent sampler, and can play audio loops as multipads. The BK9 could also play audio loops in sync with styles and SMF’s. But Roland provided ZERO content for any of these features, and consequently what could have been extremely competitive arrangers ended up being the death knell of the brand.

Relying on your customers to provide the content isn’t a good bet!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502407 - 03/05/21 05:19 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The Yamaha GENOS comes with 550 superbly arranged and mixed Factory Styles sorted under 15 Categories.

For anybody wanting to analyze or audition how any specific GENOS Style compares with their favorite arranger, Michael Lumley has undertaken the monumental task of showcasing each and every one of these 550 Styles that you can audition on YouTube:

He has posted 15 videos each spanning an hour to two hours and 30 minutes in length.

Click on SHOW MORE to view the full description under each video.

Michael has gone the extra mile to index every video to jump to any specific Style within a Category.


1.
Pop Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS3fJ6m08Eg

2 hours

2.
Rock Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBkNZoYzagQ

1 hour

3.
Retro Pop Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMe93grtg0Q

2 hours

4.
Oldies Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCJO2BYnUPw

1 hour 40 mins

5.
Dance Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KlHMMGMbII

2 hours 11 mins

6.
R&B Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4xBZK6mi88

2 hours

7.
Entertainer Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jcuK1J5UE4

2 hours 30 mins

8.
Country Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQykOugw9fw

1 hour 50 mins

9.
Jazz Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQmxbJ1KBt4

1 hour 30 mins

10.
Easy Listening Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9EdfA21IvM

1 hour 48 mins

11.
Latin Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwSkvVgdols

1 hour 30 mins

12.
Ballroom Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak0hldBYjUU

1 hour 42 mins

13.
Movie & Show Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWHU1See_q4

2 hours

14.
Classic & Events Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGRH_0vpfKY&t=59s

1 hour 12 mins

15.
Traditional & Folk Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuyQHjY4qSs

2 hours


That is 27 hours of back to back Yamaha GENOS Styles – all professionally voiced and rendered by various Yamaha programmers from around the world!

Once you realize the sheer volume of work that went into crafting these styles you begin to understand why the Yamaha GENOS Arranger is priced so much higher than the Yamaha MONTAGE.

You must have a way to recoup the cost of creating these styles taking full advantage of the capabilities and effects of the sound engine of every new arranger model.

Above all, it is the quality of the Styles that can make or break an Arranger Keyboard.

The Yamaha GENOS has about 200 Arpeggio Patterns. This makes the MEGA Voices playable.

The Yamaha MONTAGE on the other hand comes with a massive library of 10,239 Arpeggio Presets. This makes the MONTAGE the reigning king of Arps.

The R&D has already gone into the MONTAGE to create this set.

I would like to see all these Arps transferred to the next generation GENOS.

I would also like to see the Voice Expansion capacity doubled from 3GB to 6GB.

With so many free expansion packs from Yamaha, there is hardly any space left to load a multi-gigabyte Piano Sample.

Hats off to Michael Lumley for his efforts to showcase each of these 550 Yamaha GENOS Styles.

I was shocked when I looked at his YouTube Channel - KeyboardKrazy49

https://www.youtube.com/user/KeyboardKrazy49/videos


He has over 500 videos documenting every Yamaha Arranger his has owned over the past 10 years with helpful tips and tricks and comprehensive tutorials.

Here are a couple of his Tutorials on the GENOS:

Yamaha Genos Keyboard Tutorial - Some Of The Basic & Intermediate Functions / Features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAdNuIC49KI

Yamaha Genos Keyboard Tutorial 2 - Some Of The Advanced Functions / Features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNd5lmfOD0o


This is a work of passion.

It is the enthusiasm and support from fans like Michael that has helped to make the Yamaha GENOS the top Arranger Keyboard in the world.





Edited by Tapas (03/07/21 09:36 AM)

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#502415 - 03/07/21 03:28 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I think the economy of scale accounts for the price difference between workstations and arrangers a lot more than the content. Workstations probably sell 100:1 compared to arrangers, and exist in a far more populated and competitive environment.

If you sell 100X more of a product, you can sell them cheaper. And if you have more competition, you NEED to sell them cheaper!

Certainly, content is a factor. But not THAT much...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502416 - 03/07/21 04:21 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Diki
I think the economy of scale accounts for the price difference between workstations and arrangers a lot more than the content. Workstations probably sell 100:1 compared to arrangers, and exist in a far more populated and competitive environment.

If you sell 100X more of a product, you can sell them cheaper. And if you have more competition, you NEED to sell them cheaper!

Certainly, content is a factor. But not THAT much...



Hi Diki,

Excellent observation. We are in complete agreement here.

I agree the economy of scale plays a big part on why manufacturers can afford to sell Workstations at a lower price point.

Arranger Players are few and far in between.

There are also alternative solutions to Arrangers which can be more cost effective under certain use cases.

Let me expand on this topic comparing:


The Yamaha GENOS and PG Music's Band-in-a-Box


The Yamaha GENOS is the top Arranger Keyboard in the world.

In the hands of a classically trained pianist, it can replace an entire band with convincing results.

It is mesmerizing to watch Peter Baartmans play the GENOS:

https://youtu.be/XGHp5bAlPqc?t=392

https://youtu.be/ArNJ8NtPcas?t=118

https://youtu.be/Cc7fht_2Sxs?t=222

Peter even sings along in this demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNJ8NtPcas&t=502s

Nothing can replace an Arranger for its immediacy, the ability to trigger chords on the fly, change styles, add fills, initiate vocal clips with the use of multi-pads, all the while interacting with your audience.

On the other hand, what if you are not a trained keyboard player but rather a talented singer who just wants to go on stage to charm the audience?

You can hire a 5 piece band to play the Guitar, Bass, Organ, Horns and Drums to accompany your Vocals. That will cost money.

You can ask a friend who has a GENOS to provide the accompaniment.

Or, you can have Band-in-a-Box to create complete backing arrangements for you just by entering the Chord Names in a grid with a suitable style. It is the cheapest solution available to a Singer.

Band-in-a-Box customers have created a library of demo songs.

The quality of the production may surprise you:

https://www.pgmusic.com/bbradio.htm?pl=countryfolk1

The company has been in existence for 40 years with stellar Customer Support.

They sent me the Band-in-a-Box 2021 UltraPAK edition in a USB 3.0 external HD in less than 24 hours after placing the order online.

https://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

It comes with 3 programs:

  • Band-in-a-Box (32-bit)
  • Band-in-a-Box (64-bit)
  • RealBand (64-bit)


The installation takes 130GB of HD space. It is best to install this on an Internal SSD like a Samsung SSD 850 PRO (256GB), or you may simply run this off your external USB 3.0 HD.

Band-in-a-Box can be run strictly in MIDI mode where your sound source is an external sound module or keyboard.

However, the results will not be optimal. The reason being Band-in-a-Box can only handle GM voices. It just sounds ok through a Roland SD-90 Sound Canvas.

You can use a GENOS or a Clavinova as your Sound Source. You will need to remap the GM voices to make the Band-in-a-Box styles sound better. However, that is a silly exercise. The built-in styles on the Yamaha arrangers outshine these MIDI styles

To get the best use of Band-in-a-Box you need to run RealBand 64.

This is a 64-bit application. All the tracks use live studio recordings of session players – Horns, Pedal Steel Guitars, Organs, Pianos, Drums, etc. There is no MIDI involved here. This allows every nuance of a live band to shine through.

The UltraPAK comes with a massive collection of 3,300 Real Tracks Styles.

It has an exhaustive collection of Ballads, Country, Folk, Blues and Jazz Styles – all recorded by professional musicians.

None of these Styles can be played in real time with Chord changes from a keyboard. You must enter the Chords beforehand to allow the program to render the tracks. This takes a few seconds.

All these Real Tracks are compressed to WMA files in the UltraPAK edition to save space. The compression ratio is 1:11.

Compression artifacts show up when you transpose these recordings to a different key or simply play them back through good quality speakers or headphones.

A better approach is to buy the Audiophile Edition which ships with the original CD Quality 16-bit 44.1kHz WAV files.

Sweetwater has the Audiophile Edition for $559.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/...r-windows-boxed

The size of the program is 1.5TB. It comes in a USB 3.0 external Hard Drive ready to play.

The best time to buy Band-in-a-Box is Dec 31st when they go on sale online.

If you are a Singer, the Band-in-a-Box Audiophile Edition is your best companion. You could take your PC or Mac Laptop along with this External HD on stage and mimic the backing of a live band recorded by professional session players.

They do sound more authentic and organic than the built-in styles on an arranger. It is more cost-effective as well.

Woody Piano Shack has posted two videos on YouTube comparing Band-in-a-Box styles with the Yamaha PSR SX900 styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK8p1p2KLmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzjQualAEow


Band-in-a-Box has narrowly focused their market on these Country/Folk/Jazz singers.

If you are into electronic dance music, you are better served using a GENOS or an AKAI Force, or MPC One.

If you are a keyboard player, the GENOS is the best choice to express your creativity with its professionally programmed Styles covering all genres of music along with its stellar set of Super Articulation 1 and 2 voices.

Band-in-a-Box by PG Music has evolved a lot over the past 40 years. I purchased my first Band-in-a-Box Version 7 UltraPAK edition along with Power Tracks Pro Audio at Winter NAMM 1998 (LA Convention Center) at a show special price of $100.

The size of the installation was only 14.5MB. It came in one CDROM with no serial number.

The size of the Audiophile Edition 2021 today has expanded to 1.5TB!

RealBand is the program to look out for. This has a lot of potential and far reaching ramifications on how singers and songwriters create music in their home studios.



Edited by Tapas (03/07/21 06:50 PM)

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#502417 - 03/07/21 09:10 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Nick G Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Although the Genos and PSR SX900 had some awesome break through features - they still lack in some areas where other boards are far ahead...

I have posted this list a couple of times in various forums about potential OS improvements for the PSR SX900 and Genos- which im sure could easily be done with an OS update:

1) FAVOURITES: When you allocate a new "favourite" voice or style - as soon as it works you automatically get reset to page 1 of that category... very annoying why cant it just keep you on the current page you were on? - so for example if the voice you select as a favourite is on page 6 - u then get reset to page 1 so u need to remember what page it was on and navigate back to the page to re select the voice or continue on searching through the voices...

2) STEP EDITOR (Style and Midi Song): in the step editor We should be able to do a "select all" instead of having to do "Multi Select" and keep pressing (or hold) the arrow buttons to scroll down and select more than one event.

3) STEP EDITOR (style and Midi Song): We should be able to do a granular "select all" where we can select all of a certain note only for example: I want to select every note that is above the C0 range or only all C0 notes to make edits to them such as volume or velocity... currently you need to manually press each one individually as you scroll down the list of events

4) Drum Edit: any of the drum track channels in a Midi song should be fully editable down to each individual sample being played in the drum track (individual note volume, velocity, reverb, re voicing etc) (without manually scrolling and doing it through the step editor)... Roland has had this in their style and song "make up tools" for about 20+ years?

5) Another missing feature: Octave shift of the bass note being played when Accomp is ON but the style is OFF (and editability of the bass note - re voicing? it is currently fixed on a slap bass note???) - also being able to leave it on auto hold as well as the pad voice being played that is following your chord progression while the style is off...

The PSR SX 900 and Genos have "work station" functionality but when compared to level of workstation functionality with other branded boards they dont go as deep... the above tweaks would definitely take them right up there..
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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#502425 - 03/09/21 07:48 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Look Tapas, we’re trying to get away from this confrontational ‘xyz is the best arranger on the planet’ BS here at SZ...

For YOU, yes it might be better. And someone with a PA4X might feel that the Korg is the best. Some of us still find Roland’s work best for us, or Ketron’s. Some of us might feel a software solution like Groovyband might be best.

But these are OPINIONS, not fact.

For every strong point, there’s a weakness. No exceptions. So how about dialing down the rhetoric..?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502427 - 03/09/21 08:28 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Ditto!
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#502428 - 03/09/21 08:35 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: travlin'easy]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
DITTO, JOHN C.

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#502429 - 03/09/21 09:33 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: bruno123]
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
DITTO MEL
_________________________
KORG PA1000, KORG PA900, 2 BOSE S1 PROS, 2 BOSE L1 COMPACTS, YAMAHA STAGEPAS 500, ROLAND VP7

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#502437 - 03/12/21 04:39 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: organgrinder]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The Band-in-a-Box 2021 OmniPAK Audiophile Edition has exceeded all my expectations.

The highly compressed (1:11 ratio) wma files in the UltraPAK edition was revealing compression artifacts during Key Transposition. This made me decide to make the switch to the Audiophile Editon to access the uncompressed WAV files.

While gathering more information on this Audiophile Edition I found out that PG Music sells an OmniPAK Version of the Audiophile Edition:

https://www.pgmusic.com/omnipak.htm

Half way through this 18-min demo I was sold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLbtplh2uRE

I could not believe just how many music production tools, lessons, tutorials, master classes, demos, games and utilities the company has managed to compile into this all-in-one package.

There is something for everybody from a beginner to a hobbyist to a professional musician. This is a must have collection for a pianist, guitarist, saxophone player or a vocalist.

Just a quick call to Chantelle at PG Music was all it took to upgrade my UltraPAK edition to the OmniPAK Audiophile Edition. She had it delivered via UPS Express service in less than 24 hours.

Everything came pre-installed on a Seagate 2 TB USB 3.0 external hard drive. I was stunned at the sheer number of programs that were included. The content filled up 1.51 TB of space.

The WAV tracks sounds pristine. They have been recorded well with zero noise and sparkling clarity. This is the real deal.

The size of the RealTracks folder is 1.33 TB

I can see right away how this OmniPAK Audiophile Edition can benefit a Yamaha GENOS user.

The killer feature is the included RealBand 64-bit application that can seamlessly stitch together phrases of all backing tracks recorded as Audio WAV files by accomplished Studio Musicians once you lay down the Chords to a Song. It manages to transpose these phrases to any specified Chord within a reasonable range of Tempo without adding any audible glitches.

This is trivial with MIDI but not an easy feat when you are dealing with Audio Tracks.

Because these are audio recordings played on real instruments (not synthesized), they convey a higher degree of realism and nuance while sounding more organic and live.

I found this especially evident while playing back RealTrack Country Styles featuring the Pedal Steel Guitar.

The GENOS does a fine job of emulating a Pedal Steel Guitar, but the slides do not quite sound as authentic as the real instrument.

Who knows maybe someday the Arranger Keyboards will begin to include Audio Tracks for their backing accompaniment. KETRON was the first company to introduce Audio Drum tracks in an Arranger Keyboard. Yamaha followed soon after.

If you want to have all your backing tracks use Audio, Band-in-a-Box is the only game in town.

Dr. Peter Gannon founded this company in 1988. PG Music is named after his initials. It has evolved by leaps and bounds since its introduction as a MIDI sequencer on the Atari.

Their Customer Support is absolutely top-notch. Since PG Music is located in Vancouver, British Columbia, you save in taxes by ordering direct.

What makes their software so easy to use are the hundreds of short tutorials they have posted on their website. They cover everything from initial Setup to using various features that may interest a wide spectrum of users from an absolute beginner to a pro.

https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm

They have more videos on their YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHpF7zvR8o_6qLsvcoG9Dkg/videos

A lot of demos created by the Band-in-a-Box Users are featured on the PG Music Forum:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=50

They have a lengthy product line with various upgrade options:

https://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

In my opinion it is best to skip all these packages and make a one-time purchase of the OmniPAK Audiophile Edition. This is a steal of a deal that will keep you happy for many years.

The next best option is to buy the OmniPAK Regular Edition. You will miss out on the uncompressed WAV files on the RealTracks and Drums.

There is no single tool that could satisfy everyone. Competition is great. It propels innovation bringing newer technology at affordable price points.

Would Yamaha have developed REVO Drums without KETRON pioneering the way?






Edited by Tapas (03/13/21 10:30 AM)

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#502466 - 03/14/21 08:23 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The superb clarity of GENOS voices


Here is one of the best demonstrations of all the Categories of the Voices on a Yamaha GENOS.

It is played by a trained Pianist on a Yamaha Clavinova CVP-809 which has the same voices as the GENOS with a slightly better piano sample.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYe49M4xIBo

The above video is indexed to help you jump to any voice category.


The CFX Concert Grand Piano sample on the GENOS is not bad at all as shown at the beginning of this demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NanYi7WD6E

The weighted wooden keys on the Clavinova makes the piano sample more playable. You could use a Roland RD-700GX as a lower manual to trigger the piano samples on the GENOS.



Here is another good demo of the Guitar voices on the GENOS.

https://youtu.be/SDDrYEDEyPA?t=144

No arranger keyboard has been able to faithfully emulate the sound of a Pedal Steel Guitar with long slides spanning an octave of notes. They do a reasonably good job with short slides.


I would be very curious to find out what improvements in voices the successor to the GENOS brings.

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#502472 - 03/15/21 10:39 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Yeah, got to admit, when it comes to pedal steel, the Genos has pulled off a major improvement, especially in terms of bending just one note WITHIN the chord. I’m guessing that it revolves around the chord recognition helping determine which note to bend (I think the only thing I’ve heard was the third/second moving within the chord) so you aren’t tied to a particular inversion. Very clever stuff, although I’m not sure if the trick can be pulled off if you don’t input the chord information.

However, I’m still unconvinced by guitar sounds that use velocity to trigger hammer-ons, as a real guitar can perform hammer-ons and -offs at any strength. Personally (see? Opinion, not fact!) I think Roland achieved this in their SN guitars in the BK-9 much better by having the hammer-on or off (yes, it can do both) be triggered by a legato phrase on notes up to a third apart, but at ANY velocity. So, quiet or loud, you get the effect when YOU want it, not when the velocity trigger point is exceeded, which can be tough to hit consistently. One thing I notice in a lot of guitar emulation using those types of sounds is quite a lot of accidental hammer-ons, in places that no guitarist would do them..! Plus, of course, it’s only ever a hammer-on, never a hammer-off or pull-off.

I think Roland did an amazing job in making the articulations on their SuperNatural guitar sounds feel utterly natural and under the player’s total control. Want an articulation, you PLAY the articulation, not have a sample play it for you. I find that a lot easier to stay focused on the playing, rather than trying to remember what strength I have to play at to get the effect.

It’s a shame that, having close to perfected guitar articulation control, Roland bow out of the segment. Although the jazz guitar SN sound can deliver some impressive rock guitar leads (by running it through amp sims and effects) I would have LOVED to have clean Strat and Les Paul articulated sounds to do the same to...

You haven’t lived until you hear the difference between a sampled distorted guitar sound and a clean one run into a cranked up amp sim! After all, that’s how guitarists do it... 🎹🎸
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502568 - 04/02/21 04:08 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I was stunned listening to this demo of the Yamaha GENOS by Krzysztof Pajak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGuI6dEvBQE


I lost count of how many popular songs he played back to back during this 60 min presentation.

At the 26 min mark Krzysztof plays the Pedal Steel Guitar to Taylor Swift’s Romeo & Juliette.

At the 29 min mark he showcases the REVO! drums that were introduced in the GENOS.

His playing skills are extraordinary. I could not stop watching.


Here is another demo from Krzysztof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_69YQ_wTTyQ

I found out from his LinkedIn profile that he is a freelance artist for Yamaha Europe based in Poland where he runs his own Keyboard Store.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/krzysztof-pajak-69910ab1/

Yamaha has managed to attract and harness the talent the best keyboardists from all across the world.

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#502570 - 04/02/21 08:11 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I noticed when he went to demoing the pedal steel, he started a track and played LH chords. I am still a little confused as to how the pedal steel bend effects work...

Can you elaborate? Is it always the third that bends, or top note/bottom note depending on inversion? Does the inversion of the LH chord have any influence on the note? Being from the States, obviously, pedal steel is a big part of much popular music, and I have tried my best for 40 years to master pedal steel stylings, but have always been frustrated by the inability to bend a note INSIDE the chord.

The only time I found something that allowed this (my K2500 and E! Gray Matter DX7 mod allows you to bend only notes played, not notes held by the sustain pedal, so you play the full chord, sustain it and then lift all fingers but the note you want to bend) it is actually pretty non-intuitive and quite difficult to pull off accurately at anything other than really slow tempi.

So this Yamaha system is apparently very effective, but I’d like to know how it works, and what the limitations are. Can you explain in detail?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502571 - 04/02/21 09:46 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Hi Diki,

I am baffled as well.

On the real Pedal Steel Guitar you can change the tension on one or more strings by pressing on pedals. As you change the tension on a string, it changes the tuning.

So while you lay the steel bar perpendicular across several strings you have the capability to change the tuning on one or more strings on the fly by engaging the pedals which in turn changes the pitch of the affected strings.

It is really an amazing machine operated by levers.

How does the GENOS manage to pull off a convincing slide of a Pedal Steel Guitar over a short range? I am curious to find out as well.

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#502576 - 04/02/21 05:46 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Ah, I thought from your enthusiastic posts you already had one. Oh well!

Anyone else?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502580 - 04/02/21 06:46 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
There was a video on YouTube I saw that explained it.
They set the pitch bend to only bend one note. Not all keys pressed.
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#502581 - 04/02/21 10:11 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Found this https://youtu.be/kFABywwB8LE but it’s in German. From what I can see, I only see the bottom note bending, I’m not sure there’s any other mode. Can anyone understand the video..?

I guess I could get used to it, but it’s a shame there don’t seem to be top note bend modes as well. But at least for live band use or with audio tracks, I guess it’s a good thing it doesn’t need to be driven by a LH chord.

Did you find an English demo of the feature, Eric?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502582 - 04/03/21 06:48 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Eric, B]
fozzie Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 99
Found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RdPN9XFRJk
Not Genos, but how to make it on Korg
_________________________
Ketron Audya-76, Ketron SD 90, Ketron SD1000, Korg PA5X, Yamaha Genos, Zoom R-24, Zoom H2n, Guitars, Amps, Band in a box 2023 audiophile, Ipad PRO with Auria and iConnect AUDIO4 interface, etc. etc.

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#502584 - 04/03/21 06:32 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Originally Posted By Diki
Found this https://youtu.be/kFABywwB8LE but it’s in German. From what I can see, I only see the bottom note bending, I’m not sure there’s any other mode. Can anyone understand the video..?

I guess I could get used to it, but it’s a shame there don’t seem to be top note bend modes as well. But at least for live band use or with audio tracks, I guess it’s a good thing it doesn’t need to be driven by a LH chord.

Did you find an English demo of the feature, Eric?


That's the one I mentioned Diki.
Great find.
He mentions to hold the pitch bend down first, then hit the notes then release.
Interesting thing is that only the lower not is bend.
Apparently this is already build into the voice.
I tried it, it works.
He then explains how important it is to to play the correct notes (Chord) to make it sound authentic.
He uses the pentatonic scale.
He also explains that a pedal steel guitar has several pedals to bend different notes.
He compares different guitars to demonstrate the effect of the pedal steel bend. Doesn't sound the same with other guitars as well as bending up.
Only certain notes can be bend up or down.
You can easily follow that by looking at his finger position on the keys.
He plays correct bends and incorrect bends.
He also says to only bend 2 or 3 notes not 4.
His buddy says that not everybody can play in a pentatonic scale and that Harmony/echo can be used for that.
He turns on Country duet which works really nice.
The notes displayed in the display give an idea about the lead note as well as the note to be bend.
Same with country trio.
He first plays the harmony note, then all the notes himself to show what harmony does.
He then states that the resonator guitar does the same pitch bend.
That's about it.
These guys do a great job showing different features as well as playing techniques in their videos.
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#502585 - 04/03/21 06:34 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: fozzie]
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Originally Posted By fozzie
Found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RdPN9XFRJk
Not Genos, but how to make it on Korg


This guy does a great job demonstrating different keyboards.
He often makes his own styles and registrations which he shares for free.
Good stuff
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#502602 - 04/10/21 03:41 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I am seeking your expert opinion on the best MIDI Foot Controller for the Yamaha GENOS Arranger Keyboard.

I will be using a Roland RD-700GX 88 Key controller sitting on a Quik-Lok M91 Keyboard Stand.

https://www.quiklok.com/product/m-91-monolith-keyboard-stand/


The Yamaha GENOS will sit on the adjustable Quik-Lok M2 2nd Tier.

https://www.quiklok.com/product/m-2-monolith-add-on-tier/


This is a stylish and sturdy stand leaving a 32” wide clearance for a Pedal Board or Foot Controller.

I would like to trigger the Style Variations, Fill-ins and Breaks from the Foot Controller so that my hands are free to play on the Roland RD-700GX.

I see there are several MIDI Foot Controllers that may work:

  • BEHRINGER MIDI FOOT CONTROLLER FCB1010
  • Roland FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller
  • Yamaha MFC10 MIDI Foot Controller
  • Nektar PACER MIDI Footswitch Controller
  • Studiologic MP-113 MIDI Pedal Controller
  • Crumar MojoPedals 13-note MIDI Pedalboard
  • Blackstar Live Logic 6 Button MIDI Foot Controller
  • MeloAudio USB MIDI Foot Controller



1.
BEHRINGER MIDI FOOT CONTROLLER FCB1010

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FCB1010--behringer-midi-foot-controller-fcb1010

$160

This device seems to have a loyal following. This website has everything you would ever want to know about the FCB1010


http://host.mtnsys.com:81/faq-fcb/IdiotsGuide.htm

http://host.mtnsys.com:81/faq-fcb/showfaqs.asp


There is a full tutorial on how to program this device. I was amazed with the quality of this production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYNND5nMWhc

I can see how the programming can get tedious.

Luckily, an Editor has been designed by Mark van den Berg.

You can download the FCB1010 Manager from:

https://mountainutilities.eu/fcb1010

The lady who created the 47-min tutorial on programming the FCB1010 posted another excellent tutorial showing how to program the device using the FCB1010 Manager.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMJQ-AHRSMs

She uses the Korg Pa4X as an example showing how this foot controller can trigger the Styles, Variations, Fill-ins, etc.

To use the FCB1010 Manager you need to install the latest EPROM version 2.50.1E

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Behringer-FCB1010-V-2-5-1E-EPROM-latest-firmware-/153483058469


There are many 3rd party EPROMs that extend the functionality of the Behringer FCB1010 unit.

Here is one from Eureka:

https://www.eurekasound.com/eurekaprom

There is a Behringer FCB1010 FaceBook User Group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1024147077666105/

This device is well supported by the User Community and 3rd party vendors.

It features everything one may ever want in a versatile MIDI Foot Controller.


2.
Roland FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FC300--roland-fc-300-midi-foot-controller

$515

At first I was shocked to see that this was priced over 3 times more than the FCB1010.

Then I realized why the price is justified. This is built like a tank. It weighs in at a hefty 11 lbs. This has the legendary Roland build quality. It will last for decades. It has got 5 star reviews from the proud owners. This is the high-end of MIDI Foot Controllers.

The only drawback is the lack of an Editor. This means you would need to dig into the manual and study the MIDI Implementation Chart.


3.
Yamaha MFC10 MIDI Foot Controller

This device has been discontinued by Yamaha. It is easy to see why. The MFC10 got squeezed out by Behringer in the low end while it could not compete with the Roland unit in the high-end.

I see users pointing out that the switches are harder to press compared to the FCB1010 unit.

A few sellers still have a few new units for sale:

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MFC10-MIDI-Foot-Controller/dp/B0002H0F2E

$370

This will definitely work with the Yamaha GENOS.


4.
Nektar PACER MIDI Footswitch Controller

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pacer--nektar-pacer-midi-foot-controller

$230

This device has USB connectivity. This means it can be easily programmed from your PC/Mac. It is geared more towards controlling your DAW.


5.
Studiologic MP-113 MIDI Pedal Controller

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MP113--studiologic-mp-113-midi-pedal-controller

$500

This unit doubles as a pedal board.



6.
Crumar MojoPedals 13-note MIDI Pedalboard

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MojoPedals2--crumar-mojopedals-13-note-midi-pedalboard

$500

This is another good choice if you are looking for a pedal board.


7.
Blackstar Live Logic 6 Button MIDI Foot Controller

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LiveLogic--blackstar-live-logic-6-button-midi-footcontroller

$180

This is a sleek compact unit that can be used to trigger the variations and fills.


8.
MeloAudio USB MIDI Foot Controller

https://www.amazon.com/MeloAudio-Commander-Multi-Effects-Portable-Controller/dp/B07DQPTZ1F

$150

This unit is budget priced to match the Behringer FCB1010.
However, the FCB1010 wins with its larger feature set and free Editor.



Judging from the features of the above 8 units, it looks like the Behringer FCB1010 is the best choice if you are a hobbyist.

The Roland FC-300 is the best choice if price is of no concern. It will appeal to professionals who have to travel a lot and need a reliable unit that will last.

Is it worthwhile to add the FCB1010 or the FC-300 to control your GENOS when paired with an 88-key controller?

Or, is it better to just add a Yamaha FC7 Volume/Expression pedal

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FC7--yamaha-fc7-volume-expression-pedal

along with the Yamaha FC4A Sustain Pedal

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FC4A--yamaha-fc4a-sustain-pedal-foot-switch

and a simple Yamaha FC5 Foot Switch?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FC5--yamaha-fc5-foot-switch


It is possible to save all your song settings into the 10 Registrations. Moreover, it is possible to sequence the Registration Changes on the GENOS.

So, all you need is a Foot Switch to step through your Registration Sequence.

There is no need at all to press the Variation and Fill-in buttons.

This YouTube video demonstrates this function:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrhO6veyjMU

With all these possibilities, what have you found to be the most practical?

The GENOS is on backorder with most large music retailers. The wait time is over 30 days with B&H and Full Compass.

This could be a good sign. Yamaha may be getting ready to launch their successor to the GENOS later this year. So they are making limited quantities just to satisfy the units ordered. Once the new model is announced, it would be hard to sell the remaining inventory. They would have to go well below MSRP.

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#502603 - 04/10/21 04:13 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 805
Loc: North Texas, USA
In the interest of completeness there are a few other options I'll add to this thread (for your reference, and others' in the future.)
First, there's the Roland PK-6 and PK-9. They are both primarily pedalboards. But the PK-6 has an array of footswitches along the top which *I think* can be programmed to send MIDI commands. The PK-9 is a larger pedalboard with an expression pedal on top. A third option is the MIDI Solutions F8 multi-footswitch controller. This is just a "black box" that you can program to send whatever MIDI messages are necessary. It has eight 1/4" input jacks for the pedals. I believe that you can use the F8 in conjunction with a pedalboard (different function for each note), or build your own array up to eight individual momentary foot switches.
That brings me to one final observation. For a long time I was frustrated chasing my Yamaha FC5 control pedal around the hardwood floor under my keyboard. I upgraded to a Boss (Roland) FS-6 dual switch which is heavier, has a more 'positive' action, and importantly you step DOWN to activate it (instead of down and forward.) That, plus a plastic box behind it, stops it from skating away from me when I need it most. The tendency to stay put is a good reason to consider a pedalboard-type controller. They're pricey, buy they also give you the option of learning to "kick pedals" if you were ever curious to try a more organ-like approach. My $.02.

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#502604 - 04/10/21 04:49 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: TedS]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Hi Ted,

Aha!

I learned something new today from your post. This is why this forum is so valuable.

The Roland Pedal Boards are indeed great choices:

https://www.roland.com/us/products/pk-6/

https://www.roland.com/us/products/pk-9/

From the looks of it, they all share the legendary Roland build quality.

I agree, the Yamaha FC5 is flimsy. The Roland FS-6 Dual Foot Switch will be ideal to go up and down the Registration buttons.

https://www.roland.com/global/products/fs-6/

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#502610 - 04/11/21 11:45 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Whatever you get, make sure it can send sysex strings (and be prepared for some considerable head scratching if there are any variables in the string!).

For some mad reason, rather than simple PC# and CC00/32 codes for changing Divisions (as Korg and Roland and I think Ketron do), much of Yamaha’s control codes are sysex.

Better start studying!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502611 - 04/12/21 12:42 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Hi Diki,

That is an excellent observation.

I checked the Behringer FCB1010 User Manual. It can send a Program Change message or a Control Change message or a Note message or a combination thereof.


I do not see a way to store and send SysEx messages!


This makes the Yamaha MFC10 a better choice, since it is already programmed to control the Variations and Fills on a Yamaha Tyros 4 keyboard. This works out of the box.

I checked the Reference Manual of the GENOS.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/1131007/genos_en_rm_g0.pdf

On Page-148 it explains how to hook up an External MIDI Controller using the MFC10 as an example.

On Page 149 it lists all the Functions that respond to Continuous Value input like Volume, Pan, Expression, Reverb, Chorus, etc.

On Pages 150-151, it lists all the Functions that respond to On/Off input. These functions include:

Sync Start
Sync Stop
Intro 1-3
Main ABCD
Fill Down
Fill Up
Fill Self
Fill Break
Ending 1-3
Registration 1-10
Multi Pad 1-4
etc.


All of these functions can be activated by a Control Change message and a Note ON/OFF message.

So it appears an external MIDI Foot Controller will work with the GENOS to engage these functions so long it can transmit a Control Change message along with a midi Note on/off message.

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#502613 - 04/12/21 01:19 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I just found a YouTube video posted by a person showing how to make any External MIDI Foot Controller or Keyboard trigger the Variations, Fills, etc., on a GENOS

https://youtu.be/d3dqr9rhVW4?t=15

This example shows how a combination of a Control Change Message along with a Note on/off message can trigger the Style Start/Stop, Fill Down and Fill Self functions.

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#502614 - 04/12/21 01:49 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I found the author of the YouTube video in my previous post.

He is Frank from Germany.

He has written a User Guide on how to configure the Yamaha MC10 Foot Controller with the GENOS.

https://www.keyboard-akademie.de/wp-content/uploads/GENOS-und_MFC10_V2.pdf

Frank included a Table on Page-18 that shows the Control Changes and Notes to trigger the Style Elements on a GENOS.

The best part is that you are not limited to the Yamaha MFC10.

This MIDI Implementation on the GENOS allows any External MIDI device to work so long it can transmit a Control Change message and a Note message.

This is brilliant!

I found the thread on PSR Tutorial discussing this very issue in details:

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=40058.0

Isn’t the Internet a wonderful thing? We can find answers and solutions within minutes.

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#502616 - 04/12/21 09:51 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Now that I have figured out how easy it would be trigger the Style Elements on the Yamaha GENOS using any MIDI Foot Controller, I have boiled down my choices to these two units:


  • Behringer FCB1010
  • Roland FC-300



Scouring the Internet, I found these two threads discussing the Pros and Cons between these two units.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index....roller.1259660/


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6102.0


Everyone is in universal agreement that the Roland FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller has way better build quality. It is built to last with trouble free operation for many years.

Not a single user has been disappointed owning this unit, although the price is high.

On the other hand, the Behringer FCB1010 offers a slew of functions at a bargain basement price. Even if you break 3 units, you will still be ahead of the game.

For me the biggest advantage of the Behringer FCB1010 will be the free FCB1010 Manager Editor software that is available. This editor makes it a breeze to program 5 Program Changes plus 2 Control Changes per Preset.

You can have 100 presets grouped under 10 Banks that you can Name and add some descriptive notes. This is ideal for organizing everything.

The Roland FC-300 has no such editor, although the User Interface is easy enough to enter your data.

No one has the Behringer FCB1010 in stock. It is in back order.

The Roland FC-300 is available right now. It is the gold standard of all MIDI Foot Controllers.

Owners of both units have pointed out that the 2 pedals on the FC-300 feel a lot better than the ones on the FCB1010. Besides, the two pedals on the Roland unit comes with a toe switch which is absent in the Behringer unit.

Decision time!

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#502617 - 04/12/21 11:54 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The User Manual for the Roland FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller is exceptionally well written.

http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1810998/FC-300_e2.pdf

This is one of the rare Foot Controllers that support a SysEx Mode. So, all bases are covered. This gets Diki's stamp of approval!

Since this device can communicate via System Exclusive messages, it is possible to write an Editor for it.

I found someone has already created an Editor for the Roland FC-300.

fc.Factory 1.1.01

http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/products.html

This is created by Derek Cook.

Derek charges a modest $26 to license this. You would need to install Java Run Time Environment (JRE) Version 11 on your computer.

The Roland FC-300 supports 4 modes of operation:

  • Standard
  • Control
  • Sys Ex
  • Patch


At the moment, this editor only supports the Patch Mode on the FC-300, which is the most useful and important mode.

Derek’s User Guide explains how to operate the Editor.

http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/Downloads/Manuals/fcFactory.pdf





Edited by Tapas (04/12/21 12:00 PM)

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#502829 - 05/13/21 08:02 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller with a Korg Pa2X Arranger

I received the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller from Sweetwater and decided to try this on a Korg Pa2X Pro 76 Key Arranger.

As usual Sweetwater carefully double boxed the unit and shipped it via FedEx and it arrived in pristine condition.

There are two free editors available for the FCB1010 device.

1.
FCB1010 Manager

https://mountainutilities.eu/fcb1010


2.
PC Editor for FCB1010

http://www.mtnsys.com/?path=faq-fcb/PCEditorBeta.htm


I tried both.

The FCB1010 Manager is far easier to use and has a sleek interface.

Each of the 10 Pedals on the FCB1010 can be programmed to send out 5 Program Change messages, 2 Continuous Controller messages, a single MIDI Note, as well as control the Expression Pedals A and B along with 2 Foot Switches.

Each of these messages can be sent on their own MIDI Channels 1-16 which is set globally.

The FCB1010 Manager makes it a child’s play to program the 10 Pedals by presenting a spreadsheet view of all the Controls as columns and all the Presets as rows.

The FCB1010 devices can store 10 banks, each bank containing 10 presets for a total of 100 presets.

The device communicates with the FCB1010 Manager via SysEx Send and Receive.

You can add a short description for each of the 100 Presets and name each of the 10 Banks.
They are stored as a companion .FCB file along with the matching .SYX file.

The FCB1010 Manager comes with a good MIDI Monitor. However, it is far more elegant and useful to install MIDI-OX to visualize your MIDI traffic and make internal MIDI port connections.

Please download and install MIDI-OX 7.0.2

http://www.midiox.com/

This is an invaluable tool to help you program any MIDI Controller and verify that you are sending and receiving the right Program Change and Control Change messages.


You should also install loopMIDI

http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html

This allows you to create internal MIDI pipes on the fly. This is the ideal tool to create virtual loopback MIDI cables. They get removed when you log off.

Normally you would need to open the back plate of the FCB1010 device to check which version of Firmware you have. The PC Editor for FCB1010 makes this unnecessary. It can query your device and return the Firmware version.

My unit came with Behringer 2.5.1E. This is the latest version. This EPROM is guaranteed to work with the FCB Manager software.

I chose a Pa2X Pro to run my initial tests because Korg Arrangers are the easiest to set up with external MIDI Foot Controllers.

You can download the Korg Pa2X Pro Owner’s Manual from:

https://www.korg.com/us/support/download/manual/1/186/2212/

The essential Style Elements can be controlled by sending a Program Change message on the MIDI Control Channel.

They are listed on Page 280.

PC Style Element
80 Intro1
81 Intro 2
82 Intro3/Count In
83 Variation 1
84 Variation 2
85 Variation 3
86 Variation 4
87 Fill 1
88 Fill 2
89 Fill 3/Break
90 Ending 1
91 Ending 2
92 Ending 3
93 Fade In/Out
94 Memory
95 Bass Inversion
96 Manual Bass
97 Tempo Lock
98 Single Touch
99 Style Change
100 Start/Stop Style
101 Start/Stop Player 1
102 Start/Stop Player 2
64 STS 1
65 STS 2
66 STS 3
67 STS 4


I decided to pick the 10 most useful functions to populate the 10 Pedals in Bank 0 like so:

Pedal Function
1 INTRO 1
2 INTRO 2
3 FILL 1
4 FILL 2
5 FILL 3/BREAK
6 VAR 1
7 VAR 2
8 VAR 3
9 VAR 4
10 ENDING

I decided to use MIDI Channel 16 as my Control Channel to send these Program Change messages.

You can download the SysEx file from:

http://davidapps.net/fcb1010/fcb1010_pa2x.zip

Note: When you load the FCB1010+Pa2X.syx file into the FCB1010 Manager you will notice that Program Change numbers have been incremented by 1 from the table on Page 280. This is because the FCB1010 device is based on a 1-128 numbering scheme, whereas Korg Arrangers are based on a 0-127 numbering scheme.

Is it necessary to have direct control over of the Variation Buttons?

Not really.

You can program the Fills to increment or decrement the Variations. So I replaced the Variation Controls with Single Touch Setting Controls in Bank 1.

Pedal Function
1 INTRO 1
2 INTRO 2
3 FILL 1
4 FILL 2
5 FILL 3/BREAK
6 STS 1
7 STS 2
8 STS 3
9 STS 4
10 ENDING

This bank of 10 Presets turned out to be the most useful in practice.

To make the Korg Pa2X work with the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller and the Roland RD-700GX 88-Key Stage Piano you need to make some critical settings, the most important being setting MIDI Channel 16 as your CONTROL channel and MIDI Channel 1 as your GLOBAL channel.

I have explained all the setup configurations with annotated screenshots in this PDF document.

http://davidapps.net/fcb1010/fcb1010_pa2x_setup.pdf


David

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#502830 - 05/13/21 08:24 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Very in depth. Thanks.

One thing to watch out for is any reliance on the screens of these foot controllers. Most of them are primarily designed for guitarists, who stand behind the pedal and can see it clearly. Naturally, as a keyboard player, it’ll be buried under the keyboard, where you can’t see a damn thing!

So plan ahead, try to come up with ONE setup with standardized positions for what you tend to want to do the most, so you can start to develop a muscle memory for being able to hit the switches without looking, rather like playing organ pedals.

Try also to place show-stopping functions like Start/Stop, Break/Fills etc. at the opposite end of the pedalboard from where the buttons you’ll be hitting the most are, as insurance against accidentally hitting them. It takes a while before that muscle memory develops, and a missed button can play havoc with a song if you don’t think carefully about what is adjacent to what! 😱🤔

Depending on arranger, you might also, if you do find yourself needing different setups for different circumstances (Roland only ever had the one global layout for the FC-7, but I always felt one setup for style mode and one for SMF/MP3 use would have been a big improvement) you might be able to get the keyboard to send a patch change to the pedal when you change registrations. But I caution against having too many different ones. Two or three tops, I think…

Keep us informed about your journey… 🎹😎
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502874 - 05/16/21 09:32 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Excellent points Diki.

I agree with all the issues you mentioned.

I am testing out a Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller. This has a large LED screen with big bold red characters. Moreover, each of the 10 Pedals can be illuminated with different colored LEDs.

This is already working out better than the FCB1010 unit. I will post my initial evaluation shortly.

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#502879 - 05/16/21 03:43 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller with a Korg Pa2X Arranger

I decided to try out the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pacer--nektar-pacer-midi-foot-controller

Once again, Sweetwater delivered the unit double boxed via FedEx 2-day Home Delivery in pristine condition.

The MIDI Capabilities of this device goes way beyond the Behringer FCB1010.

The FCB1010 has 10 banks. Each bank controls 10 pedals for a total of 100 presets.

On the other hand, the Pacer has 24 banks which they call Presets.

Each of these 24 presets can independently control 10 Switches (pedals) along with 4 External Foot Switches and 2 external Expression Pedals.

Each of these 10 Switches (pedals) can be programmed to send various types of messages:

Control Change Toggle
Control Change Trigger
Control Change Step
MIDI Note
MIDI Note Toggle
Program Change & Bank
Program Step
NRPN Coarse
NRPN Fine
MIDI Machine Control
Relay Outputs
Preset Select
Preset Increment/Decrement
Step Select
Step Increment/Decrement
OFF

You can select the MIDI Channel (1-16, or 0 for Global) and set the Color of the LEDs when the Switch is on or off.

If that is not enough, you can also program a sequence of 6 Steps into each of these 10 pedals sending any of the above messages.

This is a MIDI Programmer's Dream Machine!

What makes this device a joy to use is the free online editor designed by Francois Georgy, a fan of the Pacer.

https://studiocode.dev/pacer-editor/#/

Hooking up the Pacer to your Computer is a breeze. It uses a class complaint USB 2.0 port. It is recognized immediately. There are no device drivers to install.

This USB cable also supplies the power to the unit.

The device was initially marketed by Nectar to act as a dedicated DAW controller. It controls the PLAY, START/STOP, REW, FWD, RECORD, LOOP functions of your DAW right of the box.

It became so popular that its MIDI capabilities were extended to control effect units, hardware synths and keyboards.

It is the ideal device to control your Arranger Keyboard.

What makes this device stand out is the large red LCD display that can be read under any lighting condition.

Moreover, you can assign 12 different colors to the LEDs on each of the 10 pedals.
Each color can be dim or bright to indicate if the pedal is on or off.

I made 3 Presets for controlling the Style Elements of the Korg Pa2X that you can download from:

http://davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_pa2x.zip

I have explained how to program these Presets and make them work with the Korg Pa2X in this User Guide:

http://davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_pa2x_setup.pdf


David





Edited by Tapas (05/16/21 05:09 PM)

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#502880 - 05/16/21 05:02 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Behringer FCB1010 vs Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller

It is logical to assume that anyone who purchases both these devices to control their Arranger Keyboard would make a list of pros and cons.

Here are my thoughts:

The Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller has been around for a long time. It is an affordable device offering a slew of MIDI functionality that does the job. I can understand its wide popularity. Manual programming is difficult because all it has is a 2 character display.

This is no longer an issue since you have the FCB1010 Monitor software to edit the 100 Presets in the form of a spreadsheet.

https://mountainutilities.eu/fcb1010

You can quickly make edits to a group of Presets by cutting and pasting values.

SysEx transfer is almost instantaneous.

The device is self-contained. It comes with 2 Expression Pedals.

It does not have USB capability. However, it has MIDI IN and MIDI OUT/THRU ports.

You can use the MIDI MERGE function to connect a Stage Piano to the MIDI IN port of the FCB1010 device and then transmit the merged output to the MIDI IN port of your Arranger Keyboard.

The device comes with a built in power supply.

The Behringer FCB1010 offers an unbeatable value at $159.99

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FCB1010--behringer-midi-foot-controller-fcb1010

You can switch EPROMS to get additional functionality.

https://www.eurekasound.com/eurekaprom

https://www.fcb1010.eu/

This brings a lot of versatility.


The Nectar Pacer is a much more modern design with USB capability.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pacer--nektar-pacer-midi-foot-controller

For $70 more you get a ton of extra MIDI Control over your connected devices.

The device has a premium build quality and feels sturdy.

Each of the 10 pedals plus the Preset pedal has a positive feel when you step on them. They are silent. You can assign 12 different colors to each pedal and change how they behave when on or off. The big bright red LED display tells you what MIDI message got sent.

You will never be left wondering if your pedal was correctly engaged.

This visual clue is crucial under the stress of a live performance.

On the other hand, the pedals on the FCB1010 feel mushy. You can hear them crunch as you push down. It feels like you have accidentally stepped on a big fat roach with your boots. It does not give you a satisfactory feeling.

Sometimes you need to push down really hard to make a positive contact.

The pedals on the Pacer are easier and satisfying to operate. The Pacer wins by a mile in this aspect.

The width of the Pacer is just right at 20 inches. You can attach two of your favorite Expression Pedals and 4 additional Foot Switches.

The FCB1010 is a lot larger measuring 26 inches wide as it includes the two expression pedals.

I would rather have the smaller width of the Pacer with the option to add my own expression pedals.

What makes the Pacer stand out is its comprehensive control over every MIDI function including Transport and Track controls for almost all popular DAWs. It understands the Mackie Control protocols.

The Pacer is the ideal device for Guitarists and Keyboard Players to remotely control their effect boxes and Arranger Keyboards.

The Pacer can send out 6 note Chords from each of its 10 pedals. Remember, each pedal can be programmed for up to 6 sequence steps that can be triggered one step at a time or in a single burst.

This allows a Guitarist to control chord changes on an Arranger with their feet.

If you were to buy a MIDI Foot Controller today, I would highly recommend in spending $70 more and getting the Nectar Pacer device.

The FCB1010 was the king of all MIDI Foot Controllers 10 years back. It rightfully acquired thousands of fans worldwide.

The Nectar Pacer is the new kid in the block. Its functionality, built quality and visual appeal far surpasses the FCB1010.

At $229.99 the Pacer is still cheaper than the Yamaha MFC10 or the Roland FC-300.

I have not tried the Roland FC-300. I use a Roland FC-7 foot controller with my Roland E-80 Arranger. Judging from the build quality of the FC-7 I can make a confident guess that the pedals on the FC-300 will outclass the pedals on the Pacer.

When it comes to build quality it is hard to beat a Roland product.

David




Edited by Tapas (05/16/21 05:04 PM)

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#502882 - 05/17/21 07:41 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2781
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
For now, I would take an update for the Genos (and SX-900)
_________________________
Larry "Hawk"

Hawk Music
Sadly No More frown

♫ 🎹🎹 ♫ SX-900




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#502893 - 05/17/21 09:39 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Not much upside for a major OS update to Yamaha’s current lineup, at least from Yammie’s viewpoint.

All in all if a problem CAN be solved with external gear, might as well use it, as you could wait forever for additional functionality to get added via OS update…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502921 - 05/23/21 07:22 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I would like to extend my warm regards to Frank Ventresca, owner of AudioProCT.com for delivering the Yamaha GENOS in pristine condition.

Frank took great care in double boxing the package with a ULINE box measuring 48” x 24” x 8”.
He wrapped the whole thing with a black film for added protection.

UPS Ground had no problems delivering this light 30 lb box at my door on time.

Everything was sealed and factory fresh.

I immediately began to run a series of tests on this brand new unit.

The 9” diagonal LCD screen is bright and flawless. It looks quite a bit larger than the 8” screen on the CVP-609.

The Analog Outputs on the GENOS are clean as a whistle. Even when the Master Volume is turned all the way to its Max position, there is absolutely no hiss. This is a common characteristic of Yamaha hardware.

Roland synths and sound modules on the other hand do exhibit some hiss as you turn up the main volume.

The headphone output on the GENOS pairs well with the Sony MDR-7506 headphones. These low impedance 63 ohm headphones play loud enough with the GENOS Master Volume pushed to the 2 o’clock position.

The Sony MDR-7506 headphones sound clear but lack the bass. I could hear a richer and warmer sound with a fuller bass using the Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro Open Dynamic headphones.

However, the DT-990 Pro has a higher impedance of 250 ohms. I had to turn the GENOS Master Volume to its Max Level to get sufficient output.

If you have a high impedance headphone, it may be better to connect your GENOS to a mixer like a Mackie 1604VLZ4 and use the headphone out on the mixer.

Next, I connected the Main (Left/Right) Analog Output of the GENOS to several powered Studio Monitors.



Behringer B3031A Truth Monitors
JBL LSR 4328P Monitors
ADAM A7X Studio Monitors



I will be posting the results of my evaluation in my quest to find the optimal external sound system for the GENOS.

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#502922 - 05/23/21 08:02 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Behringer B3031A TRUTH monitors

The first pair of studio monitors I tried was the Behringer B3031A

This is a 2-way 285W bi-amped studio monitor sporting an 8.75” Kevlar woofer and a 2” ribbon tweeter.

I used a Mackie 1604VLZ4 mixer as a preamp.

I connected the Analog Main Out (Left/Right) channels to channels 1 and 2 on the mixer.

Channel 1:

Gain = Unity
Pan = Left
Fader Level = Unity


Channel 2:

Gain = Unity
Pan = Right
Fader Level = Unity


Master Fader: -5dB

I played back the 9 Factory Demo songs through these monitors.

The B3031A monitors sound good. They feature ribbon tweeters which is an improvement over the B2031A model I owned in the past.

Behringer is famous for copying designs and selling them at affordable prices. The Behringer B2031A was a copy of the Genelec 1031A. While visually they looked almost identical, they could not quite approach the performance of the Genelec.

The B3031A model has been discontinued.

The B3031A does an adequate job. It serves well as an entry level studio monitor.






Edited by Tapas (05/26/21 06:57 AM)

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#502923 - 05/23/21 08:15 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
JBL LSR4328P Studio Monitors

Next, I hooked up a pair of JBL LSR4328P Studio Monitors featuring 8” bi-amped woofers (150w) and 1” tweeters (70w).

These are networked speakers. You can connect 5 of them and a sub to get a 5.1 surround sound setup.

It comes with a calibration kit including a microphone that helps you compensate for room responses.

Immediately, I noticed the improvement in clarity, tightness of bass and coherence. The calibration software helps in cleaning up the muddiness.

The LSR4328P is a step up from the Behringer B3031A

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#502924 - 05/23/21 08:47 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
ADAM A7X powered monitors

Next, I tried a pair of ADAM A7X studio monitors.

They come with a 7” carbon fiber mid-woofer powered by a 100W PWM amp along with an X-ART Tweeter driven by a 50W Class A/B amp.

The moment I made the switch from the JBL LSR4328P, I noticed the drop in bass response on the ADAM A7X. You need a subwoofer to go with the A7X.

The recommended sub is the ADAM Sub10 model.

I connected an M-Audio BX10s powered sub. This features a 10” woofer powered by a 240W amp. It did the job.

The clarity on the ADAM A7X surpasses the JBL LSR4328P. I could hear a lot more details as I played back the 9 demo songs on the GENOS. Everything sounded more 3 dimensional. I could focus on every instrument with pinpoint accuracy.

The BX10s subwoofer extended the bass response by a lot over the LSR4328P.

I can only imagine how much better this system will sound with the recommended sub.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/A7XSub10--adam-audio-a7x-sub10-matched-2.1-monitor-system

This matched 2.1 Active Monitor system costs $2500. They will serve as ideal near-field monitors for the Yamaha GENOS.

A sub is an absolute necessity to capture the full spectrum of the GENOS sound.

The ADAM A7X monitors exceled in mid-range smoothness. The treble was clean and grain free.

Once you have experienced the performance of the GENOS on a pair of ADAM A7X monitors with a Sub, it is hard to go back to the other two.

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#502925 - 05/23/21 09:01 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 805
Loc: North Texas, USA
Frank is amazing!! Wishing you many happy hours with this incredible keyboard!

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#502926 - 05/24/21 12:01 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: TedS]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Thanks Ted!

Yes, Frank delivered yet again.

I have taken a 5-day vacation so that I can explore this wonderful instrument.

So far the GENOS has exceeded all my expectations.

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#502927 - 05/24/21 12:20 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Tekton MOAB Floor Standing Speakers with Paradigm Servo15 Sub

Once I realized the full spectrum potential of the GENOS factory demos I decided to play them on a pair of floor standing Tekton MOABs.


Tekton Design MOAB Speakers



Each speaker has two 12” Eminence bass drivers from the Pro Audio Neodymium series along with an array of 15 Wavecor Tweeters. All of these tweeters besides the center one acts like a low mass mid-range driver. This design has been patented by Eric Alexander, President of Tekton Design.

These speakers are tall measuring 69 inches in height. Each one weighs 135 lbs and can handle a maximum power rating of 900W. I have the 4ohm version.

I am using a Parasound A21+ Stereo Power Amp. This is a Class A/AB power amp that delivers 500W/channel into 4 ohms.


Parasound A21+ Power Amp



Stereophile Magazine listed this amp under their Class A Recommended Components. It lives up to its promise.

To smoothen and tighten up the bass response down to 20Hz, I paired the Tekton MOABs with a Paradigm Servo 15 servo controlled seal sub.

To feed the cleanest signal possible to this setup I connected the Coax Digital Output of the GENOS to the Coax Digital Input of an RME ADI-2 DAC.


RME ADI-2 DAC



The RMI ADI-2 DAC is a stellar product. This professional 2-channel digital to analog converter works equally well in mastering studios as well as in high-end audiphile rigs.

I was so impressed with its performance that I was compelled to leave a 5-star review on B&H:


My Review of the RMI ADI-2 DAC



I connected the Analog RCA Output of the RME ADI-2 DAC to the Analog RCA Inputs of the Parasound A21+ Power Amp.


The Mackie 1604VLZ mixer was out of the loop.


All outputs (analog/digital) plus the headphone output is always active on the GENOS. The Master Volume controls the Analog and Headphone outputs. However, it has no effect on the Digital Output. This is something to take into consideration.

When you are connecting the Digital Output of the GENOS to a DAC you must have a way to control the output volume from your DAC before it reaches the power amp. Luckily the RME ADI-2 DAC allows you to control the output volume thus eliminating the need for a preamp.

After double checking all the connections, I started the Orchestral Demo on the GENOS and gradually raised the output volume on the DAC to 0dB.

WOW!!!

The soundstage opened up wide and clear. There are some deep notes on this Orchestral Demo. They energized the Servo-15 sub pressurizing the room. I could hear every nuance of each instrument from the thunderous dynamics to the faintest twinkling of the wind chimes.

THE MUSIC CAME ALIVE.

So, this is how the GENOS was meant to sound.

The presentation was effortless with crystalline clarity with no trace of congestion. It sounded just like a soundtrack from a Hollywood blockbuster movie.

It is hard to believe all these sounds are coming from a single Arranger Keyboard, each instrument enhanced with studio quality effects. The realism of all these synthesized voices in the GENOS is quite startling when you hear how close it sounds to real instruments.

The GENOS benefits from the best quality playback system you can throw at it. You are only limited by the capability of your audiophile setup.

I have replaced the stock Wavecor center tweeters on the MOABs with state of the art Scanspeak Illuminator Beryllium Dome Tweeters.


Scanspeak Illuminator Beryllium Dome Tweeters



These Beryllium Tweeters brings the smoothness and delicacy of the finest Electrostatic Speakers.

I used a miniDSP UMIK-1 mic with the Room EQ Wizard (REW) Software to get the best frequency response in my studio.

You can read about my journey into setting up a far field monitoring system using the Tekton MOABs on this thread on AVS Forum.


AVS Forum - Tekton Owners Thread



While the Digital Output from your GENOS feeding into your Power Amp via a DAC will yield the cleanest signal and arguably the best performance, it is not practical in a studio setting.

The reason being, you would most likely be using a family of sound modules and synthesizers along with your GENOS.

You would need to combine the outputs of each device and sum down to stereo. The smart and economical way is to use an all Analog Mixer like the Mackie 1604VLZ4. This maintains the warmth and clarity of the final mix.

Digital mixers in this price range just do not sound as good. The final mix sounds brittle and flat.
You would have to spend mega bucks to get a digital console to sound as good as an analog Mackie 1604VLZ4 mixer.

I disconnected the RMI ADI-2 DAC and connected the Main Analog Output of the GENOS to the Mackie 1604VLZ4 which fed the Parasound A21+ power amp.

This is how the GENOS will be used alongside other devices. The Mackie 1604VLZ4 offers a ton of controls with 4 Aux busses per channel. I tried twiddling with the EQ knobs. I tried inserting a Sony DPS-R7 Reverb on Aux Busses 1 and 2. I tried inserting a Lexicon PCM92 on Aux Busses 3 and 4.

I was trying to see if I could further enhance the sound of the GENOS factory demos.

The factory demos are perfect. They have been polished with just the right EQ, Compression, and studio effects by Yamaha engineers.

There is absolutely no need to alter them via outboard gear. Just set the Input Gains to Unity, set EQ to flat, push up the Fader Levels to Unity, Pan the Left Channel hard left, Pan the Right Channel hard right and you are good to go.

Yes, the Yamaha GENOS is an expensive device. However, one should compare how much money one would need to spend to create a project that would rival the factory demos on the GENOS.

The GENOS marks an important milestone in Yamaha’s illustrious R&D history.










Edited by Tapas (05/28/21 01:10 AM)

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#502935 - 05/24/21 11:41 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Comparison of external speakers for playing the Yamaha GENOS

Here are my subjective ratings of these speakers:



[1] Behringer B3031A – Rating 5/10

[2] JBL LSR4328P – Rating 6/10

[3] ADAM A7X with MAudio BX10s sub – Rating 7/10

[4] Tekton MOAB with Paradigm Servo 15 sub – Rating 9/10




The Behringer yields acceptable performance. It is the most affordable solution of the lot.

The JBL adds a little more bass extension and brings a little more clarity.

The ADAM A7X paired with a good quality subwoofer beats the above two and brings a whole new level of clarity, mid-range smoothness and high frequency extension. Every instrument in the sound filed can be tracked with razor sharp accuracy. The imaging is stellar.

The ADAM A7X on its own does not quite have the same bass extension as the JBL. You definitely need a sub to experience the full spectrum sound of the GENOS.

The MAudio BX10s sub is a good entry level sub to pair with the A7X. However, I got vastly deeper and tighter bass integration when I switched it out with the Paradigm Servo 15 sub.

If you were planning on using the ADAM A7X as near field monitors with your GENOS, it would be logical to get the Adam Sub10 designed specifically for them.


ADAM A7X with Sub10 matched 2.1 system



This would be an ideal near field monitoring set up for the Yamaha GENOS.

A step up would be to get the ADAM A77X paired with the Sub15 sub.


ADAM A77X wth Sub15 matched 2.1 system


This system can be used both for near field and mid field monitoring.

The Tekton MOABs coupled with the Paradigm Servo 15 sealed subwoofer elevates the GENOS to a whole new level of performance.

The soundstage suddenly expands wide and deep. You get to enjoy thunderous dynamics while still being able to listen to the micro dynamics and nuance of each instrument. Adding the Beryllium tweeters is an essential step to bring out the clarity and realism of the GENOS voices.

This is the system that gives you instant visceral satisfaction. You no longer need to strain your ears to hear subtle details. It is right there in front on you.

Use a clean analog mixer like the Mackie CR1604VLZ4 with a good quality Class A/AB power amp like the Parasound A21+ to drive the MOABs and you will be set in musical heaven for a lifetime.

The reason I have not given this set up a score of 10/10 is because I am fully aware of the existence of better speakers/amps that can push the sonic envelope even further.

A step up from the MOAB will be the Tekton Encores with the added Beryllium center tweeters.


Tekton ENCORES


Here is Clement Perry’s review:


http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/tekton-design-encore-loudspeaker/



This will make a fine far field monitoring setup in a music studio.

You can enhance the performance even further by using a pair of Revel Ultima Salon 2 speakers.

I have heard them demoed by its designer Kevin Voecks at past CES shows including several HiFi Audio Shows and local music dealers.

I agree with all the praise it got from Robert Harley in this glowing review:


REVEL Ultima Salon 2 Review


This is a Stereophile Class A full range speaker and has become a benchmark design. There are no other speakers that can outclass the performance of the Salon 2 at its price point.

The Salon 2 speakers are used in commercial mastering studios.

A step up from the Revel Salon 2 would be The Sonus Faber SE.

Only a limited number of dealers carry them. Jeff Dorgay visited LMC Home Entertainment in Scottsdale, AZ to audition them. Here is his review:


The SONUS FABER SE Review



I have personally heard them at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest including Mike’ s carefully calibrated setup at LMC Home Entertainment in Scottsdale. They are breathtaking.

There are yet a few more transducers in the world that are designed to showcase what can be achieved with a price no object approach.

The most notable design is the Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX. If you want to experience the ultimate playback system, it would be worthwhile to contact Mike for a demo session.

He has them mated to a pair of Wilson Thor’s Hammer Subs. The system is powered by Burmester electronics.

It was a religious experience for me!

Here is my review of the Chronosonic XVX (Post #166).


Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX Review



This setup deserves a 10/10


You can read Michael Fremers’ in-depth review on Stereophile Magazine:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-chronosonic-xvx-loudspeaker



Conclusion:


With the plethora of choices out there for getting the best sound from your YAMAHA GENOS using external speakers ranging from the affordable Behringer B3031A to professional Genelec and PMC monitors used in mastering studios to audiophile systems that cost more than a house, my recommendation would be to purchase the ADAM A7X 2.1 system featuring the ADAM Sub10.

This is the ideal mating at the right price point.

This is for your personal listening pleasure in your home. It will not work out as well if you are performing in front of a large audience. For that purpose, there are other PA solutions that would be more appropriate and transportable with easy setup and breakdown.

Best regards,

David

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#502936 - 05/25/21 04:22 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
I‘m thinking about buying the iLoud MTM, according to the reviews they are very powerful and surprisingly lightweight studio monitors which sound excellent.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/ik_multimedia_...3VhZ2UiOiJlbiJ9

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#502937 - 05/25/21 07:19 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Just curious as to how you have access to so many different powered speakers?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502939 - 05/25/21 10:33 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Hi Diki,

I bought them brand new over the years and decided to keep them. Each one offers exceptional value at their price point.

Besides these I also have the M-Audio BX5a monitors, M-Audio AV40 monitors, AudioEngine A2B monitors and the B&W Rock Solids. They are useful in assessing how a mix will sound under different playback systems.

I use the Tekton MOABs and the Mirage M3-Sis for far field monitoring.

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#502940 - 05/25/21 11:03 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Crossover]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Crossover
I‘m thinking about buying the iLoud MTM, according to the reviews they are very powerful and surprisingly lightweight studio monitors which sound excellent.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/ik_multimedia_...3VhZ2UiOiJlbiJ9



The IK Multimedia iLoud MTM Compact Studio Monitors got rave reviews on Amazon


Amazon Review



I have not tried them personally.

The best way to evaluate them would be to purchase a pair and try them with your GENOS and see if you like them. Most online retailers like Sweetwater Sound offer a 30-day risk free trial.


IK Multimedia iLoud Studio Monitors - Sweetwater Sound



The GENOS benefits from full range speakers that go down to 30Hz. Small desktop monitors just do not have that kind of bass output. For example, I tried my GENOS with a pair of M-Audio AV40 monitors which has 4” woofers. The results were unsatisfactory. I stepped up to a pair of M-Audio BX5a deluxe monitors with 5” Kevlar cone drivers. The results were subpar. I decided not to include them in my review.

The Behringer B3031A with 8” woofers were the least expensive studio monitors that produced acceptable performance with the GENOS.

The GENOS has a super clean full range output. Your playback system must not only have the capability to play flat down to 30Hz but also have the resolution and refinement to capture the subtle nuances of every voice on this fine instrument.

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#502941 - 05/25/21 01:32 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
rb293 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 153
Loc: Binghamton, NY USA
iloud studio monitor comparison review... for those who might be interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM9d9qESZgU&list=RDsTAHodk3Z80&index=2

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#502942 - 05/25/21 05:26 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: rb293]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By rb293
iloud studio monitor comparison review... for those who might be interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM9d9qESZgU&list=RDsTAHodk3Z80&index=2




That was an excellent video by Piano Man Chuck making a thorough comparison between the iLoud MicroMonitors and the larger MTM Monitors.

Thanks for posting the YouTube link!


A pair of iLoud MTM Monitors costs $700.


I would like to mention 4 other speakers that may be worth evaluating before making a purchase decision.


1.

Behringer Truth B2031A 8.75 inch Powered Studio Monitor

2-way 265W Powered Studio Monitor with 8.75" Woofer, 1" Tweeter, and Room Compensation EQ (each)

$358 a pair


2.

JBL 308P MkII 8-inch Powered Studio Monitor

112W Powered 2-way Studio Reference Monitors with 8" Woofer, 1" Tweeter, and Magnetic Shielding (each)

$498 a pair


3.

ADAM Audio T5V 5 inch Powered Studio Monitor

Active Vertical 2-way Nearfield Monitor with 50W 5" Woofer and 20W U-ART Accelerated-ribbon Tweeter (each)

$400 a pair


4.

ADAM Audio T8V 8-inch Powered Studio Monitor

Active Vertical 2-way Nearfield Monitor with 70W 8" Woofer and 20W U-ART Accelerated-Ribbon Tweeter

$600 a pair



Please note that each one of them is cheaper than the iLoud MTM pair.

Three of them come with 8” woofers which will pump out usable bass down to 40Hz

They are bigger in size and heavier. The increased volume translates to better bass response.


It is hard to judge a speaker based on printed specs and physical dimensions. You cannot really tell how they will perform unless you set them up and properly calibrate them in your home environment connected to your specific gear.

The next best option is to go visit the showroom of a large music retailer. Bring your own music that you are familiar with as FLAC files downloaded to your iPad. Plug in the 1/8” stereo jack to the speaker selector board and compare the sound of all the speakers in the demo room.

If you have a subscription to QOBUZ, you can stream the lossless FLAC files from your Smartphone/Tablet and evaluate the speakers in the store. All Guitar Center stores are equipped to do this.

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#502943 - 05/25/21 07:16 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Here are some comparison videos on various Studio Monitors by Digital Stereophony

JBL 305P MKII vs Adam Audio T5V


All comparison videos by Digital Stereophony



They include several iLoud MTM comparisons:


Adam Audio T8V vs IK Multimedia iLoud MTM






Edited by Tapas (05/25/21 07:34 PM)

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#502944 - 05/25/21 11:03 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The Yamaha HS8 edges out the JBL 308P MkII monitors in this comparsion:

Yamaha HS8 vs JBL 308P MKII


The Yamaha HS8 demands an audition.

Yamaha HS8 8 inch Powered Studio Monitor

120W Powered Studio Monitor with 8" Cone Woofer, 1" Dome Tweeter, and Room Control and High-trim Response Controls (each)

$740 a pair


The biggest advantage of the iLoud MTM is its smaller size and weight. You can position them in tight spaces. It comes with a room calibration kit.
It has to be doing some fancy electronic wizardry to get them to emulate the bass response of typical 8" drivers from two 3.5" drivers.

One can easily understand the popular appeal of these monitors. They blend in as ideal desktop monitors whereas the HS8's will look bulky and awkward.


One should not forget that Yamaha makes an affordable 2.1 speaker system for the GENOS.

Yamaha GNS-MS01 Speaker System for Genos

2.1 Active Monitor Speaker System for Yamaha Genos Arranger Workstation with 2 x 20W Satellite Speakers and 1 x 40W Subwoofer

$330

The satellites are even smaller than the iLoud MTMs. If the performance is adequate, why spend any more money?

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#502947 - 05/27/21 01:04 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Panel Voices that are common to the TYROS/GENOS family sound exactly identical.

I made an interesting observation while comparing voices that are common to the Tyros 2, CVP-609 and the GENOS.

Note: The CVP-609 shares the same voices as the Tyros 4.

Consider the Panel Voice = DX Sparkle.
This appears on all 3 under slightly different names.

GENOS = DX Sparkle
CVP-609 = Sparkle Stack
Tyros 2 = SparkleStack

I hooked up all 3 devices to channel strips 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on the Mackie CR1604VLZ mixer.
I set the input gain to unity and raised the fader levels to unity panning each stereo pair hard left and right.

I set the Master Volume on each device to level match the output.

When I played these 3 Panel Voices through my MOAB far field monitors, they sounded exactly identical, even the effects.

I was expecting some form of refinement in the GENOS over the other two. There wasn’t any. Even the demo sequences were identical.

I can see the reason why Yamaha decided to do this. If you have created any project on the Tyros 2, it will playback on the CVP-609/Tyros 4 and the GENOS without requiring any adjustments so long they share common voices.

Of course the GENOS has a whole arsenal of powerful effects. You can enhance these factory voices to your liking.

All the factory panel voices common to the CVP-609 and the GENOS sounded exactly alike:

Here are some panel voices on the GENOS:

DX Ballad
DX BalladBells
DX Dream
DX Sweet
DX Midnight
BoysChoirOoh

Here are the corresponding panel voices on the CVP-609:

Ballad DX
Ballad Bells
Dream DX
Sweet DX
Midnight DX
Boys Choir Ooh


I could see why many Tyros 4 and Tyros 5 users were not enticed to trade up to the GENOS.

The voices common to all do sound exactly the same.

Unless one absolutely needs the extra features and access to the newer voices and REVO drums, there is little justification in shelling out big bucks.

Styles are a different story.

I could clearly hear the refinement in voicing and arrangement moving from the Tyros 2 to the CVP-609 to the GENOS.

If and when Yamaha decides to release GENOS 2, it would need to come with a new feature stack compelling enough to make the upgrade worthwhile for current users.

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#502950 - 05/27/21 10:33 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
How many Genos2’s you think they’re going to sell if they incorporate its features into the original Genos? 😂
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502952 - 05/27/21 12:22 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Ha! Obviously none, if the additional features can be incorporated through and OS upgrade on the original GENOS.

Introducing a new model every 3 to 5 years is a superb marketing ploy to get you to buy the same product multiple times with a few improvements.

Ask yourselves, how many Yamaha Arrangers have you bought and sold?

I call this an expensive subscription service laugh

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#502954 - 05/28/21 12:23 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using an External MIDI Controller with the Yamaha GENOS

I explored all the functions on the GENOS that can be remotely controlled by connecting a MIDI Foot Controller.

I was pleasantly surprised to find the simplicity of the MIDI implementation making it idiot proof to configure any controller.

Everything is clearly explained in the GENOS Reference Manual, Page 149:


Genos Reference Manual


There are 95 different functions you can control remotely:

No Assign
Sustain
Sostenuto
Soft
Portamento
Modulation (Alt) Right 1
Modulation (Alt) Right 2
Modulation (Alt) Right 3
Modulation (Alt) Left
Articulation 1 Right 1
Articulation 1 Right 2
Articulation 1 Right 3
Articulation 1 Left
Articulation 2 Right 1
Articulation 2 Right 2
Articulation 2 Right 3
Articulation 2 Left
Articulation 3 Right 1
Articulation 3 Right 2
Articulation 3 Right 3
Articulation 3 Left
Effect Right 1
Effect Right 2
Effect Right 3
Effect Left
Effect Mic
Keyboard Harmony/Arpeggio On/Off
Vocal Harmony On/Off
Vocal Harmony Effect On/Off
Talk
Score Page +
Score Page –
Lyrics Page +
Lyrics Page –
Text Viewer Page +
Text Viewer Page –
Song A Play/Pause
Song B Play/Pause
Style Start/Stop
Tap Tempo
Synchro Start
Synchro Stop
Intro 1
Intro 2
Intro 3
Main A
Main B
Main C
Main D
Fill Down
Fill Self
Fill Break
Fill Up
Ending 1
Ending 2
Ending 3
Fade In/Out
Fingered/Fingered On Bass
Bass Hold
Percussion 1
Percussion 2
Percussion 3
Right 1 Part On/Off
Right 2 Part On/Off
Right 3 Part On/Off
Left Part On/Off
One Touch Setting +
One Touch Setting –
One Touch Setting 1
One Touch Setting 2
One Touch Setting 3
One Touch Setting 4
Registration Sequence +
Registration Sequence –
Registration 1
Registration 2
Registration 3
Registration 4
Registration 5
Registration 6
Registration 7
Registration 8
Registration 9
Registration 10
Transpose +
Transpose –
Multi Pad 1
Multi Pad 2
Multi Pad 3
Multi Pad 4
Multi Pad Stop
Song Control SP1
Song Control SP2
Song Control SP3
Song Control SP4
Song Control Loop


This is a pretty comprehensive list.

All you need to trigger these functions is to send a Control Change message or a MIDI Note ON message.

You can chose from the following 30 Control Change messages to trigger these functions.

CC 0
CC 5
CC 6
CC 8
CC 9
CC 10
CC 11
CC 12
CC 13
CC 14
CC 15
CC 16
CC 17
CC 18
CC 19
CC 20
CC 21
CC 22
CC 23
CC 24
CC 25
CC 26
CC 27
CC 28
CC 29
CC 30
CC 31
CC 32
CC 33
CC 34

If your MIDI Foot Controller has 30 pedals, you can utilize all of them at once, with each CC message mapped to any of the 95 different functions.

The Nectar Pacer has 10 pedals.

I decided to map them as follows:


Pedal Function
1 INTRO 2
2 INTRO 3
3 FILL DOWN
4 FILL SELF
5 FILL UP
6 BREAK
7 INTRO 1
8 ENDING 1
9 ENDING 2
10 ENDING 3


To keep matters simple, I decided to use the default mapping of the GENOS factory preset named “All Parts”

MENU | MENU 2 | MIDI | External Controller | All Parts

CC Default_Mapping

CC 0 Style Start/Stop
CC 5 Fill Down
CC 6 Fill Self
CC 8 Fill Break
CC 9 Fill Up
CC 10 Synchro Stop
CC 11 Main A
CC 12 Main B
CC 13 Main C
CC 14 Main D
CC 15 Style Start/Stop
CC 16 Fill Down
CC 17 Fill Self
CC 18 Fill Break
CC 19 Fill Up
CC 20 Synchro Stop
CC 21 Intro 1
CC 22 Intro 2
CC 23 Intro 3
CC 24 Tap Tempo
CC 25 Style Start/Stop
CC 26 Fill Down
CC 27 Fill Self
CC 28 Fill Break
CC 29 Fill Up
CC 30 Synchro Stop
CC 31 Ending 1
CC 32 Ending 2
CC 33 Ending 3
CC 34 Fade In/Out


Note: You are free to change this factory default mapping to relate any of these 30 CC numbers to any of the 95 functions.

You can save your custom mapping in a User Preset.

You can create as many User Presets as you like.

This brings tremendous flexibility and power to the GENOS.

Besides CC messages, you can also trigger any of these 95 functions by sending a MIDI Note ON message (1 through 30).


The lowest note of an 88-key digital piano is A0 which is MIDI Note 21.

MIDI Note 30 is F#1 on your digital piano.

This means you can use the lower portion of your 88-key digital piano to control 10 different functions:


MIDI_Note, Note_Name
21, A0
22, Bb0
23, B0
24, C1
25, C#1
26, D1
27, Eb1
28, E1
29, F1
30, F#1


This is a great solution if you do not have a MIDI Foot Pedal!


You can make the 10 lowest keys act like pedals to trigger anything you wish from the pool of 95 different functions.

Clearly, Yamaha engineers put a lot of thought in designing the GENOS to bring this level of flexibility.

Special thanks to the Yamaha Documentation Team for publishing easy to understand reference manuals.

I will write up a User Guide with screenshots showing how to configure the GENOS with the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller with an example SysEx file that you can download and play with.

I will also write up a second User Guide showing how to configure the GENOS with the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller with an example SysEx file.


David

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#502956 - 05/28/21 01:38 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
dud Offline
Member

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 226
Loc: israel
my friend it is the end of top arranger keys , there will not be genos2 or pax5 or new ketron , roland stopped to make theme years ago. on the other hand the last top arrangeres that was produced especialy genos and ketron sd 9/60/90 are the best we could dream 20-30 years ago.

it is sad , but that is the fact and there are some reasons for that ,the main reason is that there is no need for arranger keyboards anymore , only few of us who plays western music still find places to work , only eastern countries of arab and turky music still have live music places to work.


Edited by dud (05/28/21 01:42 PM)
_________________________
davidfle@walla.co.il

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#502958 - 05/28/21 03:06 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: dud]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I share your sentiments.

Arranger technology has reached an amazing level of sophistication where they can convincingly emulate a full band under the hands of an expert player.

You have to admire the talented R&D team at Korg, Yamaha and Ketron for all the features they managed to introduce in their top of the line models.

However, you never know what surprises these manufacturers have in store.

I would like to keep my hope alive for even more innovations down the line even while realizing that we are a shrinking audience.

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#502960 - 05/28/21 03:28 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller with the Yamaha GENOS

I got the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller to work flawlessly with the Yamaha GENOS.

The Pacer has 24 Presets.

I programmed the 10 Switches in Preset A1

Each Switch is programmed to transmit CC messages on MIDI Channel 16.

Connect the Pacer to the MIDI IN Port B on the GENOS

Turn on the Pacer

Turn on the GENOS

Make sure the GENOS is set to receive MIDI messages from an External Controller via MIDI IN Port B on MIDI Channel 16

MENU | Menu 2 | MIDI | External Controller.

To keep matters simple, I am using the default mapping of Preset = All Parts

Activate the following 3 buttons:

• ACMP
• OTS LINK
• AUTO FILL IN

Make sure the SYNC START button is engaged.


Press Switch 1 on the Pacer.

This will activate INTRO 2

Play a chord to start INTRO 2.

Try out all the 10 Switches:

Switch Function
1 INTRO 2
2 INTRO 3
3 FILL DOWN
4 FILL SELF
5 FILL UP
6 BREAK
A INTRO 1
B ENDING 1
C ENDING 2
D ENDING 3


Here is the User Guide with detailed instructions on how to program the Pacer with annotated screenshots:

http://www.davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_genos_setup.pdf

If you wish to skip the programming part, you can download this SysEx file for Preset A1

http://davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_genos.zip


I am delighted with the easy integration of the Pacer MIDI Foot Controller with the GENOS.

This is an excellent device to have if you are using an 88-note Digital Piano as a controller keyboard and find it awkward to reach up to the Style Controls on the GENOS.

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#502961 - 05/28/21 03:37 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: dud]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
I have an opinion:

Arranger keyboards will always have a place. They are used for many reasons besides playing out. My reason; when I stopped playing with my band, I missed it so much that I bought an arranger and continued my dream at home. The trumpet should here, then the piano, now a sax solo. It is only the imagination of a user that dies.

John C.


Edited by bruno123 (05/29/21 09:13 AM)

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#502966 - 05/29/21 08:51 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I often draw comparisons with the decline of the arranger with the decline of the home organ. Once upon a time, it was the dominant keyboard of its day, with only a few professional keyboards like the Rhodes and the clavinet as alternatives.

They got more and more capable, more and more complicated, more and more expensive, and then music changed and they no longer sounded anything like current pop music. It was being made with synths, drum machines, sequencers and rock guitars, none of which the home organ could do well, especially without an astronomical price tag (Yamaha GX-1, anyone?!). Young people looked at the home organ and the music that was being made on it and said ‘Thanks, but no thanks!’ and moved on to firstly synthesizers, then workstations and rarely looked back other than a reverence for the B3 for rock music or jazz. The nail in the coffin was the appearance of the first true arrangers, developed out of the marriage between synth/sample technology and the primitive auto accompaniment sections of the last generation of home organs.

The home organ didn’t die out completely, but its days of being the main home music maker were gone. Now, let’s look at this in the modern context…

Modern arrangers are amazing instruments, the top end at astronomical prices. But they suck at doing modern music, which revolves around the easy triggering of loops and arpeggios, quick and easy visualization of the clip content, and modular synthesis or emulation of vintage synthesis. They also have a terrible image problem with young players, faced with a battery of hokey old styles and almost no contemporary content when first switched on. Imagine how popular arrangers would have been when they first came out if stocked primarily with 20’s and 30’s styles! Yep, it’s about that bad!

So, here we are at the end of the line, fewer and fewer being sold, a wider and wider gulf between modern pop music and what they are designed to do best, prices rising at the top end, and the low end being constructed cheaper and cheaper in China, and now, to top it off, a global pandemic that has decimated the professional arranger players usual venues.

Does anyone honestly expect the pace of innovation to continue at its previous pace?

As to software improvements vs. hardware, the problem is that piracy is almost taken for granted, but building hack proof systems in arrangers is very difficult. So yes, the arranger manufacturers COULD update the OS to do more stuff, could release expansion packs of new sampled sounds and styles that use them, but where’s the money coming from to do this? New unit sakes have flattened, the truth is, if you want an arranger, you’ve probably already got one, the update isn’t going to sell much hardware. And piracy will mean that only a small percentage of adopters of the new stuff will actually PAY for it. So, what’s the upside?

Yamaha seem to be the only designer who have found a way to protect sample packs, Korg have a system that is highly intrusive, difficult to manage and impossible to edit the sampkes. But neither of them have a way to key the OS to the hardware, so OS updates can be ‘shared’ freely, negating any significant way to monetize them.

Yamaha’s model of incremental improvement of hardware was the main model of the industry, every three years or so, some new samples, a few more pro styles that used them, a slight increase in effects capability, maybe a bump in polyphony, some new wrinkle to the chord recognition or guitar strumming emulation, rinse and repeat.

But this relies on constant upgrading by the users, and that relies on a robust market for the used arranger they’re selling to buy the new one. Tried to sell a used arranger lately? Not easy… not at a good price, anyway!

So, what’s the solution? Not one the industry is willing to do, I fear. To appeal to a new generation of players, the arranger needs to ditch the oldies stuff, and add a boatload of stuff to ease clip and arpeggiator features, move the sound engine more towards analog synth sound emulation, and pack it with clips and loops for today’s music. In other words, turn it into a modern workstation. And they already make those!

Personally, I think it’s more likely that some arranger functionality gets added to loop stations than the other way round. Too few of us already playing arrangers are likely to use that stuff. To be frank, I’ve heard very little user demos that leverage much of the NEXT OS stuff that got added to the PA4X, the touch screen control of arpeggios and modern things like that. You rarely see a PA4X in a modern DJ’s arsenal, or onstage with an EDM act. So, adding modern stuff to an arranger doesn’t seem to be a sales slam dunk.

So, as we get older, buy fewer and fewer arrangers, we see the echoes of the home organ’s decline. It took about twenty years to go from market domination to niche keyboard, and we’re in the middle of that, I think. What little hope we have revolves around loop stations getting more arranger features and practical tools like lyrics displays, easy gig operation, song lists, stuff like that, but I rather feel we’ve hit the zenith. There ARE things that could be improved in arrangers, better sounds, articulated samples, more variations in styles, better voice leading in chord transitions, more responsiveness to the player’s input (dynamics, ‘busyness’ of playing etc.) but where’s the money for all that development coming from? Not us buying as many as we used to, that’s for sure!

But at least, just like the amazing last generation of the home organs, we are going out on a high note. Personally, I don’t feel much desperation that we might be looking at the last generation or two of a keyboard that’s been around for thirty years or more. What I already have will see me out to the end of my career and continue to wow my audiences. In the end, it’s still mostly down to the player.

So, no tears for the arranger. Job well done!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502967 - 05/29/21 09:58 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Diki, you write a lot of words --- good, you take the boredom out of the day. (smile)

I lived in a time when the organ was desired by many – and when they were desired by few. I attended every organ festival in Orland, and a few Wersi concerts in Pennsylvania. Wersi was my favorite. I did my best to attend any organ demo in any store close to my area. I attended one demo/concert that had an organ duo, two Wersi organs, fantastic. They did not used organ sounds often. Big Band and the Pop at that time.

I fell in love when I first heard a muted trumpet play a solo with a small jazz band.

I tuned pianos for one of the largest Piano and Organ stores in S. Florida. I went to all of them, and some others.
Their demos were 90% organ sounds. There were many reasons for the decline in organ sales, I feel this was one of them.
When I asked why organs sounds were used mostly, I got an answer I was not expecting. We are interested in the gray-haired old ladies, they have the money, the young generation did not. This gets ugly, so I’ll stop.
John C.
PS, I had a Wersi organ that I could remove the top part and use it on a job. (nice)

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#502969 - 05/29/21 10:09 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I wasn’t grey haired enough for a Wersi! Skipped that whole bit and went straight to silver, LOL But Wersi needed more gold than I was willing to pony up!

It’s a definite home niche in the US, but Europe’s got a bit better gig scene for the organ, and Japan still has a very good home organ organ scene. Sold home organs in the UK in the seventies, and always sold the most expensive to the oldest, worst players! Lowery’s, Yamaha’s, Elka’s, you name it. The more lights, the better!

I often felt I was more of a furniture salesman than musician..!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502981 - 05/30/21 09:41 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
dud Offline
Member

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 226
Loc: israel
it is a dying erea in every kind of instrument. time has changed and live music is almost impossible to find in the western countries.

therfore there is almost no need for arrangeres, guitars, trumpets etc

we the older musicians who grew on arrangers still find it faccination , and we are amazed from the last keys that the companies produced lately , because for us those last instruments are a dreame come through , thats what i felt when i bought the GENOS and KESTRON SD90.
_________________________
davidfle@walla.co.il

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#502985 - 05/30/21 10:12 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: dud]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller with the Yamaha GENOS

After configuring the Pacer with the GENOS using the Continuous Controllers I decided to program the FCB1010 using MIDI Notes.

This is where I ran into a snag.

The GENOS allows remote control through a pool of CC# or MIDI Notes.

For example, if you navigate to this screen:

MENU | Menu2 | MIDI | External Controller

You see the default mapping of Preset = All Parts

CC#0/C#-1 = Style Start/Stop

CC#5/D-1 = Fill Down

CC#6/Eb-1 = Fill Self

So what is the MIDI Note Number corresponding to C#-1

The standard practice is to designate C#-1 as MIDI Note Number = 1 as you can see from this table:


MIDI Note Numbers for Different Octaves



So the translation should go like this:

Note_Name, MIDI_Note_Number

C#-1, 1
D-1, 2
Eb-1, 3

When I used these MIDI Note Numbers nothing worked.

After some investigation, I found that in Yamaha parlance, C#-1 = MIDI Note 13.

Yamaha’s numbering scheme is off by an octave!

This is what Yamaha wants you to input:

Note_Name, MIDI_Note_Number

C#-1, 13
D-1, 14
Eb-1, 15

Once I figured out this quirk, everything proceeded smoothly.

Please ignore my previous translation table that I posted.

This is the correct set of 30 CC# and MIDI Note Numbers the GENOS recognizes.

CC#, Note, MIDI _Note, Default_Mapping

CC 0, C# -1, 13, Style Start/Stop
CC 5, D -1, 14, Fill Down
CC 6, Eb -1, 15, Fill Self
CC 8, E -1, 16, Fill Break
CC 9, F -1, 17, Fill Up
CC 10, F# -1, 18, Synchro Stop
CC 11, G -1, 19, Main A
CC 12, Ab -1, 20, Main B
CC 13, A -1, 21, Main C
CC 14, Bb -1, 22, Main D
CC 15, B -1, 23, Style Start/Stop
CC 16, C 0, 24, Fill Down
CC 17, C# 0, 25, Fill Self
CC 18, D 0, 26, Fill Break
CC 19, Eb 0, 27, Fill Up
CC 20, E 0, 28, Synchro Stop
CC 21, F 0, 29, Intro 1
CC 22, F# 0, 30, Intro 2
CC 23, G 0, 31, Intro 3
CC 24, Ab 0, 32, Tap Tempo
CC 25, A0, 33, Style Start/Stop
CC 26, Bb 0, 34, Fill Down
CC 27, B 0, 35, Fill Self
CC 28, C 1, 36, Fill Break
CC 29, C# 1, 37, Fill Up
CC 30, D 1, 38, Synchro Stop
CC 31, Eb 1, 39, Ending 1
CC 32, E 1, 40, Ending 2
CC 33, F 1, 41, Ending 3
CC 34, F# 1, 42, Fade In/Out



I programmed Bank 0 with 10 Pedals for these Functions:

Pedal Function
1 INTRO 3
2 FILL DOWN
3 FILL SELF
4 FILL DOWN
5 BREAK
6 INTRO 1
7 INTRO 2
8 ENDING 1
9 ENDING 2
10 ENDING 3

The Behringer Foot Controller works as expected.

It has 2 built-in Expression Pedals.

The GENOS allows you to connect 5 Expression Pedals transmitting on CC#7, CC#1, CC#2, CC#3 and CC#4

They can all work simultaneously.

You can assign any of these 16 functions to these 5 pedals:


• No Assign
• Modulation
• Breath Controller
• Foot Controller
• Portamento Time
• Volume
• Pan
• Expression
• Sustain
• Portamento Switch
• Soft
• Resonance
• Release Time
• Attack Time
• Cutoff
• Reverb Send
• Chorus Send


Furthermore, you can limit the scope of these functions.

You can specify which Part you want your Expression Pedal to control:

These are all the Parts you can control with your Expression Pedals.

• Right 1
• Right 2
• Right 3
• Left
• Keyboard
• Style Rhythm 1
• Style Rhythm 2
• Style Bass
• Style Chord 1
• Style Chord 2
• Style Pad
• Style Phrase 1
• Style Phrase 2


I am thoroughly impressed with the comprehensive MIDI Implementation of the GENOS.

The Pacer is the ideal Foot Controller for the GENOS. In addition to 10 Switches for each Preset, you can connect 4 additional Foot Switches and 2 Expression Pedals.

The best foot switch for the job is the M-Audio SP-2 Universal Pedal.

The best expression pedal that is comfortable to use is the Yamaha FC7.

That gives you a lot of firepower considering the Pacer can store and recall 24 Presets.

The FCB1010 is just not as versatile. I do not like the squishy feel of the Pedals and there is limited visual feedback. It costs $70 less than the Pacer.

I would wholeheartedly recommend the Pacer to go with your GENOS.

I had to revise my User Guides to reflect Yamaha’s numbering scheme.

So here are the revised documents:


Using the FCB1010 with the GENOS

http://davidapps.net/fcb1010/fcb1010_genos_setup.pdf

Download the SysEx File for the FCB1010

http://davidapps.net/fcb1010/fcb1010_genos.zip



Using the Pacer with the GENOS

http://davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_genos_setup.pdf

Download the SysEx File for the Pacer

http://davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_genos.zip


Even though the User Guide applies to the FCB1010 and the Pacer devices, I have included enough information with screenshots to make it easy to program any other MIDI Foot Controller. The principle is the same.

The Pacer tutorial is using Continuous Controller numbers to trigger the functions.

The FCB1010 tutorial is using MIDI Note numbers to trigger the functions.



David


Edited by Tapas (05/30/21 10:25 PM)

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#503035 - 06/04/21 10:30 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using Foot Switches and Expression Pedals on the Yamaha GENOS

The Yamaha GENOS has 3 ports on the rear marked as:

1. Sustain
2. Articulation 1
3. Volume

You can connect either a Foot Switch or an Expression Pedal to any of these 3 Assignable Foot Pedal Inputs.

You can assign the functions by going to this page:

MENU | Menu 1 | Assignable

The normal behavior of the Sustain Pedal is to be ON only while the pedal is depressed.
If you find this behavior to be flipped, you can either change the polarity on your device or change the polarity on your GENOS by opening the MENU button on the top right of the Assignable page.

Roland makes a sturdy 3-pedal unit with Half Damper function:


Roland RPU-3 Triple Pedal Unit with Half-Damper function


I use this on the Roland RD-700GX digital piano. It works flawlessly. Unlike mono ¼” jacks that you find on regular Sustain Pedals, the RPU-3 device carries 3 stereo ¼” jacks. This is necessary to support the Half Damper function.

I could not get this to work on the GENOS.

I was hoping to use this unit as a 3 foot switch combo.



Here is what gave me the best results.

1.
Yamaha FC7 Expression Pedals


Yamaha FC7 Expression Pedal


This device is rugged, well built with a smooth sweeping action. It is one of those rare devices still manufactured in Japan and designed to last a lifetime. You can attach multiple FC7 units side by side. You must set the polarity to Positive on the GENOS.

A big advantage of buying from B&H is that not only do they offer free FedEx 2-day delivery but also pays the taxes. You would need to use their PayBoo Credit Card issued by Synchrony Bank with no annual fees.

A cheaper alternative to the Yamaha FC7 is the M-Audio EX-P Expression Pedal:


M-Audio EX-P Expression Pedal


It is better to pay an extra $10 and get the real deal. There is a reason why the Yamaha FC7 has become the industry standard.

I have two of these connected to the Nectar Pacer foot controller. The feel, action and size of the FC7 units make the two built-in expression pedals on the Behringer FCB1010 device feel like toys.




2.
M-Audio SP-2 Universal Sustain Pedals


M-Audio SP-2 Universal Sustain Pedal

This is reasonably well built. It has a polarity switch on the bottom. The action feels nice. The price is right at $25.

I am using 3 of these on the 3 assignable Foot Pedal Inputs on the GENOS.

However, if you are willing to spend $5 more, you can get the real deal from Yamaha:


Yamaha FC4A - Piano Style Switching Sustain Pedal

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#503041 - 06/05/21 08:35 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Roland and Yamaha have always had VERY different continuous controller electronics. Switch polarity was always the same, but the potentiometer specs are radically different. You have never been able to plug a Roland expression pedal into a Yamaha and vice verse and them work well. They do work, but the throw is completely off, almost all the volume change occurring in one area of the pedal’s travel.

The same principle would apply to sustain pedals that use potentiometers rather than switches (to be able to do half pedaling). However, you might still be able to use the Roland Triple pedal if you cut off the tip ring sleeve (TRS) jacks and replace them with normal TS 1/4” jacks… as long as you only ask them to do switched functions.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#503043 - 06/05/21 10:14 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
mellow1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Florida, USA
If Yamaha is going to get out of the arranger business, then I wish they would sell their style making software to us. Since most factory styles are miles ahead of any others, it would be great to have a way to make your own styles sound like theirs.
Wishful thinking!
Skip

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#503044 - 06/05/21 10:39 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 805
Loc: North Texas, USA
Mellow, let's not create rumors or misinformation. What makes you think that Yamaha is getting out of the arranger business!? Roland on the other hand hasn't introduced a new arranger since 2015, and they closed their European division where their arrangers were made. If you have evidence about Yamaha, please post it up!

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#503048 - 06/05/21 11:42 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: TedS]
mellow1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Florida, USA
First word: “If”

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#503050 - 06/05/21 02:13 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Diki
Roland and Yamaha have always had VERY different continuous controller electronics. Switch polarity was always the same, but the potentiometer specs are radically different. You have never been able to plug a Roland expression pedal into a Yamaha and vice verse and them work well. They do work, but the throw is completely off, almost all the volume change occurring in one area of the pedal’s travel.

The same principle would apply to sustain pedals that use potentiometers rather than switches (to be able to do half pedaling). However, you might still be able to use the Roland Triple pedal if you cut off the tip ring sleeve (TRS) jacks and replace them with normal TS 1/4” jacks… as long as you only ask them to do switched functions.



Thanks for that excellent tip Diki.

This gives me a better understanding of why I could not get the Roland unit to work.

I had not thought about converting the TRS jacks on the Roland unit into standard ¼” TS jacks.

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#503051 - 06/05/21 02:17 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Connecting the Roland RD-700GX Digital Piano to the Yamaha GENOS

The GENOS MIDI Implementation makes it trivial to connect any external controller keyboard.

The GENOS has two MIDI IN ports (A & B).

This makes it easy to connect an external 88-key controller to MIDI IN Port A while you can connect an external foot controller to MIDI IN Port B.

Using the Roland RD-700GX Digital Piano as an example, use a MIDI Cable to connect the MIDI OUT 1 port of the RD-700GX to the MIDI IN Port A of the GENOS.

Use a second MIDI cable to connect the Pacer MIDI Out to the MIDI IN Port B of the GENOS.

By default the RD-700GX is set to transmit on MIDI Channel 1.

Set the GENOS to receive MIDI messages on MIDI Channel 1.

MENU | Menu 2 | MIDI | Receive

You will find a listing of 32 MIDI Channels spanning Port 1 and Port 2.

Select Port1 Channel 1 and set the Part to KEYBOARD.

This is all that is needed to instruct the GENOS to receive MIDI messages from the RD-700GX.

Your RD-700GX will be triggering the LEFT, RIGHT 1, RIGHT 2 and RIGHT 3 Voices.

The default split point on the GENOS is F#2

Set the Split Point on the RD-700GX to F#3. This will mirror the split point on the GENOS.

The RD-700GX supports layering of 2 voices on the Lower Keyboard and the layering of 2 voices on the Upper Keyboard.

In conjunction with the GENOS, this allows you to layer 3 voices on the Lower Keyboard and 5 voices on the Upper Keyboard if you so wish.

As you play a few notes on the RD-700GX you will notice that the green LED will flash in the Receive Monitor on Port 1 (MIDI A/USB1/WLAN), Channel 1.

Assuming you have connected the Pacer Foot Controller to MIDI IN Port B, Channel 16, you would expect the green LED to flash in the Receive Monitor on Port 2 (MIDI B/USB2), Channel 16 as you operate the pedals.

The green LED will not flash. Do not be concerned! This is by design.

When you open the External Controller Settings and select a Port and a MIDI Channel, this channel gets reserved for exclusive use by the Foot Controller.

In this example, the External Foot Controller is using MIDI IN Port B, Channel 16.

Now that you have got your 88-key controller keyboard and MIDI Foot Controller to interface with your GENOS, there is just one more essential step remaining to complete this integration.

MENU | Menu 2 | Keyboard/Joystick | Keyboard

The factory setting for the Initial Touch is Normal

Cycle through the options to see which setting feels right to you.

For me I found it best to use Touch Curve = Easy1

The factory setting for After Touch is Medium

I found the Soft setting to work better for me.

With the RD-700GX connected to the GENOS you have the best of both worlds. You can use the RD-700GX for playing piano voices while you can use the GENOS synth action key bed to play all other voices.








Edited by Tapas (06/05/21 08:11 PM)

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#503052 - 06/05/21 07:51 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Yamaha GENOS/Roland RD-700GX vs. Yamaha Clavinova CVP-609PE


Now that I have got the Yamaha GENOS fully configured with the Roland RD-700GX Digital Piano and the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller I decided to summarize my findings on how this contraption compares to the Yamaha Clavinova CVP-609PE.



Keyboard Action:


Let’s face it. The primary reason for hooking up an 88-key weighted controller to your GENOS is to make it more enjoyable and realistic to play piano voices.

The best piano voice on the GENOS is the CFX Concert Grand.

This is an excellent sample. However, no matter how much you try you could not quite get the range of dynamics from the Synth Action FSX keyboard on the GENOS.

The Piano is one of the instruments where the only control you have is the velocity of striking a key. There is no modulation, pitch bend, after touch or portamento on a real piano.

Nothing feels the same as playing on a real acoustic grand piano. It is just not possible to emulate the range of dynamics of a piano sample using a synth action keyboard.

There are many graded weighted key controllers. The Roland RD-700GX is one of the best. It has a graded 88-key weighted keyboard (PHA II) with Escapement. Playing the GENOS CFX Concert Grand voice through the RD-700GX makes a world of difference.

The Yamaha CVP-609PE has a Linear Graded Hammer Action Natural Wood keyboard.

Both the CVP-609 and the RD-700GX have synthetic ivory key tops.

The weighted keys on the CVP-609 feel good but falls short of the magical feeling you get when you play on a RD-700GX with key escapement. You get more dynamic control on the RD-700GX. Roland hit it out of the ballpark when they introduced the RD-700GX in 2010. This device was optimized for playing piano voices. It became a favorite stage piano for professional musicians.

While piano voices come alive on the RD-700GX, it does not quite work so well while playing organ voices. The FSX Synth Action keyboard on the GENOS works out a lot better for playing every other instrument besides the piano.

Having the RD-700GX hooked to your GENOS gives you the best of both worlds. This combo easily beats out the CVP-609.




Voices:


The best piano voice on the GENOS is the CFX Concert Grand.

The best piano voice on the RD-700GX is the Expressive Grand. I compared both using the RD-700GX as the controller.

The CFX Concert Grand sounds clean and bright. The Expressive Grand on the other hand delivers a much more richer and warmer tone. It is more textured and sounds more dynamic. The Expressive Grand wins. No contest here.

However, this is an unfair comparison. The Roland RD-700GX is a purpose built device just to make this Expressive Grand Piano Patch sound its best. Everything else is an afterthought.

The GENOS on the other hand can do so much more besides playing a single piano voice. I was surprised with the excellent quality of the CFX Concert Grand sample on this Arranger Keyboard. This voice sounds better than the Concert Grand Voice on the CVP-609.

My rankings for the best piano voices would be:

1. Expressive Grand: Roland RD-700GX
2. CFX Concert Grand: Yamaha GENOS
3. Concert Grand: Yamaha CVP-609


You can layer 2 voices on the Lower Keyboard and 2 voices on the Upper Keyboard on the RD-700GX.

The GENOS allows 1 voice for your Left hand part and 3 voices for your Right hand part.

The CVP-609 allows 1 voice for your left hand part and only 2 voices for your Right hand part. I find this limiting.

Moreover, you have 4 multipads on the GENOS to trigger loops synched to the tempo. The CVP-609 does not have multipads.

These multipads help to enhance the styles.

The GENOS supports 10 Registrations. The CVP has only 8.

The CVP-609 shares the same voices as the Tyros 4. All voices that are common to the GENOS and the CVP-609 sound exactly identical.

The GENOS has many more Super Articulation and Super Articulation 2 voices plus the Revo Drums.

The GENOS/RD-700GX combo wins.



Speakers:

The CVP-609 comes with a system of built-in speakers. The entire keyboard vibrates when you play the instrument loud. They sound adequate. I found I could get better results by hooking up a pair of Behringer B3031A monitors for a more precise 3D sound field at my seated position.

The GENOS and the RD-700GX require external speakers. A pair of ADAM A7X studio monitors mated with an M-Audio BX10s sub yields excellent results. It completely trounces the built-in speakers of the CVP-609.



Guide Lamps:

One of the major selling points of the CVP series is the included Guide Lamps which is lacking in the GENOS.

Guide Lamps are an excellent way to entice young kids into playing a Clavinova. They offer instant gratification. The music pauses till you hit the correct key. It is a brilliant concept executed to perfection on the CVP series. There are cheaper lighted keyboard models offered by Casio and Yamaha but they all fall short.

What are the alternatives to Guide Lamps?

1.
The cheapest alternative is Synthesia.

Synthesia

You can purchase a license for $29 and install the software on all the devices in your household.

Synthesia plays back any MIDI file while highlighting the keys you need to press. It waits for you to press the right key. This is a popular music practicing tool.


2.
The PianoMaestro Teaching System.

https://thepianomaestro.com/

This device comes with an LED light strip spanning 48 keys.

It works in conjunction with Synthesia and waits for you to hit the right key.

The price is $139.


3.
The ONE Music Group Hi-Lite, 88 key LED Bar.


88-key LED Light Bar


This LED strip spans all 88 keys. It costs $217.


You can use any of these options on the RD-700GX to mimic the Guide Lamps on the CVP-609.


While it is fun and easy to play your favorite tunes assisted by Guide Lamps, it is a better long term strategy to learn how to read music. It is not that difficult. Sight reading is an essential skill.

One of the best online Piano Teaching Courses that trains you how to sight read music is PianoMarvel.


PianoMarvel


A 1-year membership costs a reasonable $111.


Piano Marvel Quick Tour


As an Arranger Player all you need to learn is how to sight read these 23 notes spanning from B3 through A5.

If you spend just 10 minutes a day you can easily advance to Level 3 within a year. You will be able to play hundreds of songs from these Fake Books.


Hal Leonard Fake Books




Usability:

If you are a gigging musician the GENOS is your best choice. It is light weight (28 lbs) and easy to transport. You cannot carry a Clavinova with you. At best you can consider adding the RD-700GX which packs another 55 lbs.

The GENOS/RD-700GX works well in a studio setting.

The Clavinova works best as a standalone all-in-one device in a living room setting. It has something for everyone in the family to keep them entertained. It is a great learning tool.



Appearance:

The polished mirror like ebony finish on the CVP-609PE exudes elegance. This glossy surface also becomes a fingerprint magnet. It is easy to maintain the factory shine by applying this product once a month with a microfiber cloth:


Cory Super High Gloss Piano Polish



You can use this product to clean the keys:


Key-Brite Piano Key Cleaner by Cory


The CVP-609PE is designed for your living room.


The GENOS/RD-700GX/ADAM 7X combo on the other hand looks a like a contraption erected by a mad scientist. It is optimized for the studio environment for professional musicians.

Based on appearance alone, the CVP wins.




Price:


Let’s break down and examine what it takes to set up the GENOS/RD-700GX combo:

1.
GENOS Arranger Workstation
$6,000


Yamaha GENOS




2.
Roland RD-700GX Digital Piano.

This model is discontinued.

You can buy the current model for $2,680


Roland RD-2000 88-key Stage Piano



3.
Quik Lok M-91 Keyboard Stand
$80


M-91 Keyboard Stand



4.
Quik Lok M-2 Add-On Tier
$35


M-2 Add-On Tier


This supports the GENOS at the perfect angle.



5.
GENOS Music Stand Extension for Angled Position.
$37


GENOS Music Stand Extension for Angled Position


You would need this bracket to hold your sheet music upright when the GENOS is mounted in a tilted position.


6.
ADAM A7X Studio Monitors with the Sub10 matched subwoofer
$2,500


ADAM A7X with Sub10 2.1 System


This is the ideal near field speaker system for reproducing the sounds of the GENOS.


7.
Calibration Microphone
$119


miniDSP UMIK-1 USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone


You would need this calibration microphone and the free Room EQ Wizard software to blend the sub with the A7X monitors.


Room EQ Wizard



8.
Speaker Stands.

You would need a pair of these. They are 36” tall which puts the height of the ADAM 7X tweeter at 42”. This matches the ear height when seated on the piano bench.

They are $230 a pair.


Ultimate Support MS-90/36B 36" Studio Monitor Stands



9.
Piano bench
$144


Roland RPB-300-BK Adjustable Height Piano Bench



10.
Analog Mixer

Mackie 1604VLZ4 16-Channel Mixer
$1000


Mackie 1604VLZ4 16-channel Mixer


This is an excellent analog mixer.


11.
Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller
$230


Nektar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller



12.
Two Yamaha FC7 Expression Pedals
$78


Yamaha FC7



13.
Three M-Audio SP-2 Sustain Pedals
$75


M-Audio SP-2 Sustain Pedals



14.
Equipment Rack
$318


Omnirax Pro20


This is ideal for rack mounting the Mackie Mixer.
You can place your laptop on the top surface.



15.
MIDI Interface
$235

You would need this MIDI Interface if you plan on adding more sound modules.


MOTU MIDI Express 128 8x8 USB MIDI Interface





Grand Total = $13,761


This excludes the price of the Audio and MIDI cables that you would need to hook up all your devices.


Now compare this to the CVP-609PE. This model is discontinued. The current model is the Yamaha CVP-809PE.

$12,500


Yamaha Clavinova CVP-809PE


This is about $1,000 cheaper than a fully decked out GENOS/RD-2000 rig with the premium ADAM A7X 2.1 near field monitoring system and the Mackie 1604VLZ4 mixer.





Summary:


The GENOS and the Clavinova are both optimized designs that are targeted towards different audiences.

If you want a single all-in-one device that will look and sound marvelous in your living room, the CVP-809PE is the one to get. This device has enough features to entertain the whole family and double as a music teaching tool for kids.

It makes little sense for a gigging professional to buy a Clavinova. The GENOS is the ideal keyboard to carry around. You always have the option to add a Roland RD-2000 to get that magical piano action. You can also add on a premium near-field monitoring system that will far outclass the built-in speaker system in the Clavinova.

The GENOS makes perfect sense in a studio setting.



David




Edited by Tapas (06/06/21 10:28 AM)

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#503088 - 06/09/21 05:33 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Live Controls on the Yamaha GENOS

The GENOS has 6 Live Control Knobs and 9 Live Control Sliders.

The bright OLED display above the Live Controls has a cleaver design to show the assignable values of these 6 Knobs or 9 Sliders depending on which control you are operating.

The usefulness of this display is greatly expanded by the use of the Knob and Slider Assign Buttons. Each cycles through 3 pages. Essentially, you are getting access to (3 x 6) = 18 Assignable Knob parameters and (3 x 9) = 27 Assignable Slider parameters.

These Live Controls are completely missing on the CVP-609.

The 6 large and brightly lit Gateway Buttons makes it very easy to navigate.

• Home
• Menu
• Style
• Voice
• Song
• Playlist

They are missing on the CVP-609.

The GENOS has 6 Assignable Buttons. The CVP-609 has 4.

The GENOS is a well thought out instrument with ease of use as its top priority.

Functionally, the GENOS/RD-700GX combo surpasses the CVP-609 by a wide margin.

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#503089 - 06/09/21 05:36 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using a Smart Surge Protector with the Yamaha GENOS


Rather than manually turning on/off all the connected devices to your GENOS, you can use the GENOS to act as a trigger by using a Smart Surge Protector.

I am using this 7-Outlet Smart Strip.


Smart Strip SCG-3MVR 7-Outlet Surge Protector

$14.14


The GENOS is connected to the Control Outlet while the ADAM A7X monitors, RD-700GX and Mackie 1604VLZ4 mixer is connected to the 4 Switched Outlets. The M-Audio BX10s sub is connected to one of the Always On Outlets.

The GENOS draws very little power. I had to turn the sensitivity dial clockwise a bit to make the GENOS act as a trigger.

This works flawlessly.

When I turn on the GENOS, it turns on the monitors, controller keyboard and the mixer.
The moment I play a note, the Subwoofer turns on which is set to auto-sensing mode.

When I am done playing, the GENOS shuts down automatically after a period of no activity.
This in turn shuts down the monitors, RD-700GX and the mixer. The Subwoofer turns off automatically when there is no activity.

If you want a Smart Surge Protector with more outlets, you can buy this model:


Smart Strip LCG-3MVR 10-Outlet Surge Protector

$48.34





For the best surge protection for your GENOS you can use this BrickWall Audiophile Grade Surge Protector:


BrickWall Surge Suppressor Model PW2RAUD


$239


This is a Series Mode Design. They never fail.


How a Series Mode Surge Suppressor Works


I have had 4 of these units since 2004. None of them has failed. I have never had a connected device get damaged due to a surge. They certainly give you peace of mind.







Edited by Tapas (06/09/21 05:40 PM)

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#503092 - 06/09/21 06:20 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Good point about the UPS’s… I live in Florida, so it’s a daily fact of life here!

For me, having everything shut down when I turn off my keyboard doesn’t really work, as I use the sound system for much more than just the one keyboard, and my computer DAW, interfaces etc..

My Mackie’s are auto sensing, so the main power user goes into sleep if it doesn’t detect any sound, and that’s probably most of the vampire current draw.


A techie once told me that components get stressed more by being powered up and down daily than by running constantly (given a solid UPS) for months or years, so I leave what I use all the time running. But YMMV…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#503114 - 06/12/21 10:25 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Calibrating the Genelec 8351B powered monitors with the Genelec 7370A Sub


For someone wanting to use the Yamaha GENOS in a studio setting with a Genelec monitoring system, here is an excellent setup and calibration video:


Setting up Genelec 8351B 3-way monitors with the 7370A 12” Subwoofer


Stephanie from Genelec shows how to use the Genelec GLM Kit to calibrate the speakers and dial in the sub to create several presets for each of your favorite listening positions.

The auto calibration compensates for less than ideal room acoustics and even off-axis listening positions. If you have an untreated room, this is the easiest way to achieve the smoothest frequency response.

Genelec Systems are pretty much standard in recording and mastering studios.


Genelec 8351B 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor


$4,000 each


Genelec 7370A 12 inch Powered Studio Subwoofer


$4,000


Genelec GLM SAM Loudspeaker Management System


$300


The total system price comes to $12,300.


It seems expensive at first glance, but not outrageous considering they include built-in amps with the circuitry to calibrate the speakers for any listening environment. They are an essential professional tool to help you produce the best mixes and identify flaws.

An audiophile grade system used for playback in a living room comprising of Revel Ultima Salon 2 speakers and Mark Levinson power amps and preamps costs a lot more.


I tried getting the flattest frequency response using a pair of Tekton MOAB speakers with the Paradigm Servo-15 sub driven by a Parasound A21+ power amp and sourced from a RME ADI-2 FS DAC.

You can see the final SPL graph in Post #39


Final results after the Beryllium upgrade


The system works well as a mid to far field monitoring system. However, after going through all the trouble of setting this up and applying the modifications, I would not recommend this in a professional studio setting.

You are better off purchasing the Genelec system which is purpose built to give you the best frequency response under any conditions.


Other highly regarded monitoring systems used in recording studios include PMC, ATC and Focal.


Here is an excellent introduction to the Focal Professional Studio Monitors from PureWaveAudio:


Focal Professional Studio Monitors


What brings the exceptional clarity is their inverted Beryllium Dome Tweeters.


The Focal Twin 6 Be is an excellent choice in a studio setting:


Focal Twin6 Be 6.5 inch 3-way Powered Studio Monitor


$2,200 each


Focal is a high-end audio company that made inroads into the Professional Audio arena.

They are the makers of the world class Grande Utopia EM EVO floor standing speakers.

They sell for $130,000 a pair


Compared to their flagship product the Focal Twin 6 Be is a bargain.


It is quite amazing how far technology has advanced and how many choices are now available at every price point to suit your needs.





Edited by Tapas (06/12/21 10:32 AM)

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#503115 - 06/12/21 12:04 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Let’s be honest here… how many people on this forum can afford a $12,000 monitor system? 😂💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#503116 - 06/12/21 01:06 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I agree.

Spending $12,000 on a 2.1 monitoring system is a bit too much for a project studio. These systems are tailored to serve the needs of commercial mastering facilities.

The ADAM A7X with the Sub10 system is the maximum one should spend for a near field system to listen to their GENOS.

For a project studio, a pair of Genelec 8040B 6.5 inch Powered Studio Monitors make perfect sense.

They are reasonably priced at $1,175 each.

They outperform the ADAM A7Xs.


Studio Monitors are usually not interchangeable with Audiophile speakers.


Studio Monitors for near field listening are designed for finding and fixing flaws in your mix. They can become tiresome during long mix sessions. The best example is the Yamaha NS-10M. The tweeter was so irritating that clients would attach tissue paper over them to save their ears.
The final mix came out excellent though.

Audiophile speakers are designed to make everything sound as good as possible regardless of the source. They are tailored to provide long relaxing sessions to the end user. They are not meant for critical listening or isolating each and every instrument although some expensive ones excel in doing just that.


You can hear the ethereal clarity of the Revel Salon 2 even through this YouTube video.


For comparison, here is the recording of Isle of Innisfree by Celtic Woman.


Here is another version by Rebecca Winckworth








Edited by Tapas (06/12/21 04:55 PM)

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#503318 - 07/20/21 09:02 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using a Casio CDP-S350 Compact Digital Piano as an 88-key controller


The Roland RD-700GX or the RD-2000 88-key Stage Pianos are ideal to pair up with a Yamaha GENOS to get you that progressive hammer action keybed.

The Roland RD-2000 features their absolute top of the line PHA-50 progressive hammer action keybed which feels luxurious to the touch. But this instrument costs $2,680 and weights a hefty 47 lbs.

Are there cheaper portable options?

I decided to try out the Casio CDP-S350 compact digital piano. B&H shipped via 1-day FedEx delivery.


Casio CDP-S350


The 88 keys on a piano span exactly 4 feet. You cannot do much to shorten the length. What Casio did was drastically reduce the depth of this device to 9.1” while keeping the height at 3.8”.

This makes the CDP-S350 the worlds slimmest 88-key graded hammer action keyboard.

They did not compromise on the length of the keys. The white and black keys measure the standard 5.75” and 3.75” in length respectively.

Weighing in at less than 24 lbs, this is the most portable 88-key digital piano with weighted keys you can buy today.

It comes with 700 presets, 64 voice polyphony and surprisingly features arranger functions with 200 styles.


Casio CDP-S350 Specifications


At an MSRP of $549, the CDP-S350 is the cheapest 88-key fully weighted arranger keyboard.

This device is ideal for the beginner who wants to take piano lessons and dab into some arranger features for fun. It is no wonder why this model has become so popular. Casio smashed the price/performance ratio and sent their competitors back to the drawing board.

I would say the CDP-S350 was the reason Yamaha had to reimagine their DGX line and come up with their new DGX-670 model to stay in competition.


What did Casio sacrifice to shrink the depth of this device to 9.1”?


Answer: The playability of the black keys.


The weight of the black keys feel perfectly balanced with the white keys when you press down on the black keys in the middle. This is good.

However, when you press down on the tip of the black keys, they feel considerably lighter than the tip of the white keys.

Conversely, it feels very difficult to push down the black keys when you place your fingers on the back of the black keys.


Why is that?


The keys act like a lever. The back of the black keys are very close to the fulcrum requiring you to apply a great deal of pressure. The fulcrum could not be placed further back because of the design constraint on the depth.

If you look at all other digital pianos from every other vendor featuring fully weighted keys, you will notice the depth is 10” or more.


Roland FP-10, depth = 10.19 inches

Yamaha P45, depth = 11.5 inches

Kawai ES110, depth = 11.33 inches.

Korg B2, depth = 13.23 inches.


Ideally, there should be very little variation no matter where you push down on a black key. This is achieved by making the keys longer which in turn dictates a greater depth.


You cannot cheat physics.


James Pavel Shawcross, a classically trained pianist brought up this issue on his review of the Casio PX-S3000.

He pointed out that the black keys feel lighter than the white keys on the PX-S3000.

It is an undisputable fact.

However, this is where things got interesting.

Casio responded to James' review.

Mike Martin, general manager of Casio hinted that certain design compromises had to be made. Rich Formidoni on the other hand came out vigorously defending the PX-S3000 design and made matters worse. Rich previously worked at Korg.

James is a passionate guy. In response to Rich he actually took apart his Casio PX-S3000 to study the keyboard mechanism.

He showed the back keys indeed had lighter counter weights compared to the white keys proving his hypothesis.

Rich could have handled this situation a lot better by being more diplomatic. Yes, certain sacrifices had to be made to strike the best balance between playability, features, portability and price.

Rich missed a golden opportunity to educate the public on their state of the art keyboard action featured on their GP510 Hybrid Grand Piano.

The keyboard mechanism is designed by Carl Bechstein, makers of one of the finest concert grands.

The GP510 retails for $6,000.

You can hear Kateryna Titova perform on the Casio Grand Hybrid GP-500.


Aside from the black keys on the Casio CDP-S350, how does the keyboard action feel?


It is distinctly different than the GH3 action on the Yamaha P45 and the PHA-4 action on the Roland FP-30X.

The white keys on the CDP-S350 feel more bouncier. They spring back faster. I like the action. The Roland PHA-4 action feels sluggish in comparison. The Yamaha GH3 action feels damped compared to the Casio action.

The Casio CDP-S350 is perfect for practicing on the C Major Scale. One can always transpose down to C to minimize playing on the black keys. If you are accustomed to playing on a Roland RD-700GX, you will immediately notice the unevenness of the black keys on the Casio.

Due to the slim design, the shoulder on the CDP-S350 is very narrow. It measures 2.5 inches. I would have liked the shoulder to be 4 inches wide. This would have allowed me to place a compact QWERTY keyboard or a controller on top. I could have made good use of this real estate.

In my opinion, increasing the depth from 9.1 inches to 10.5 inches would have led to a better overall design. It would have instantly fixed the issue with the black keys while providing users enough shoulder width to place keyboards and controllers on top.


What about the sounds on the Casio CDP-S350?


The best piano voice is the very first one named Stage Piano. It is not as good as the Yamaha P45 or the Roland FP-30X.

However, the CDP-S350 has plenty of other good sounds in other categories.

I would rate the CDP-S350 as 8/10.

If the depth was 10.5” and came with a Piano voice on par with the Yamaha P45, I would have given this a perfect rating of 10/10 at this price point considering all the extra features and portability it brings to the table.






Edited by Tapas (07/21/21 11:27 AM)

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#503319 - 07/20/21 11:47 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 698
Loc: Russia
Tapas, it sounds very interesting! I will read it more carefully later !

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#503321 - 07/21/21 10:55 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Kabinopus]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using the Casio CDP-S350 with Chordie, Synthesia and PianoMarvel


The Casio CDP-S350 Compact Digital Piano does not come with a 5-pin DIN MIDI Out Port. Instead, it comes with USB 2.0 To Host and To Device ports to interface with your Computer.

Unfortunately this has become the norm with entry level Digital Pianos. While this makes it easy to connect your Digital Piano to your Computer, it makes it difficult to interface with external gear having regular MIDI IN/OUT ports.

The solution is to buy this Camola USB MIDI Host Box or this Kenton USB to MIDI Converter Box or this MidiPlus USB MIDI Host Box.

These standalone boxes convert a USB MIDI device interface to a pair of standard 5-pin MIDI IN/OUT ports.

This lets you connect the Casio Digital Piano to an external sound module without having to use a Computer.

Of course, for most users this Casio Digital Piano will be connected to a Computer to drive other apps.

The Casio CDP-S350 comes with a Class Compliant USB-MIDI port. This means this is completely plug & play. There is no need to install a USB-MIDI driver.

However, I found that the Casio USB-MIDI driver does not support multiple clients. In other words, if you use the Casio USB-MIDI port to connect to the Chordie App, you can no longer connect this to the Synthesia app. The port is no longer available.

This was never an issue with the Roland PCR-800 controller. It came with a multi-client USB-MIDI driver and would work with the Chordie App, Synthesia and PianoMarvel all at the same time.

The solution to get around the Casio USB-MIDI single client driver limitation is to install loopMIDI and MIDI-OX. Both are free.


LoopMIDI supports multiple clients.

MIDI-OX 7.0.2 lets you control the routings.


The idea is to connect the Casio USB-MIDI port to the LoopMIDI port and subsequently have all other apps connect to this loop back MIDI port.

In essence, none of your apps are interfacing directly with the Casio, but rather connecting to the LoopMIDI port which is mirroring the MIDI Output from the Casio.

This is a nifty little trick and it works flawlessly.

I could now see the keys that I press on the Casio along with the Note names and Chord names in the Chordie App.

I can see the duration of notes being played on the Synthesia App.

Chordie and Synthesia offer valuable visual feedback as I practice songs and exercises on PianoMarvel.

I have explained how to set everything up with LoopMIDI, MIDI-OX, Chordie, Synthesia and PianoMarvel in this Casio CDP-S350 USB-MIDI Connection Guide.

You can use this workaround provided by loopMIDI whenever you encounter issues with single client USB-MIDI ports.

I could see why Casio decided not to provide a multi-client USB-MIDI driver. It would mean writing OS specific drivers for Windows XP, 7, 8, 10 and MacOS 11, 13, 15, etc. It adds to the cost.

Other companies like Korg, Roland and Yamaha do go the extra mile to write multi-client USB-MIDI drivers. The downside is that they are not plug & play. You have to download and install the driver specific to your OS.

David





Edited by Tapas (07/21/21 12:05 PM)

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#503323 - 07/21/21 03:05 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Replacing the Piano Voice on the Casio CDP-S350

The best Piano voice on the Casio CDP-S350 is the very first patch = Stage Piano.

The Yamaha P45 and the Roland FP-30X both have better Piano voices.

The Casio PX-S3000 has a slightly better Piano voice than the CDP-S350 but still falls short of the Yamaha P45 and the Roland FP-30X.

The lack of a good Piano voice can be addressed by using a good VST Plug-in.

Here are some notable ones:

Pianoteq 7 Standard Virtual Piano Plug-In $275

This is based on physical modeling. The download is just 37MB.


Garritan Abbey Road CFX Concert Grand $159

The full installation requires 133GB of hard disk space!


Vienna Symphonic Library Yamaha CFX $278


Spectrasonics Keyscape Collector Keyboards $379


Stu Harrison has done an excellent audio comparison of the best Piano VST Plugins.

Mr. Harrison is one of best unbiased reviewers of digital and acoustics pianos on YouTube. He has dozens of comparison videos on his Channel:


Merriam Music


James Shawcross is yet another passionate Piano enthusiast who is classically trained. You can view all his comparison videos on various digital and acoustic pianos on his YouTube Channel:


ThePianoforever


James owns a Steinway Model D. Why does he even bother with digital pianos? James explained that he uses the digital pianos for long practice sessions so as not to wear out the Steinway D.


Out of curiosity I downloaded the Pianotek 7 Standard Trial version.

Yes, the NY Steinway D Classical preset does sound a lot better than the Stage Piano preset on the Casio.

Listen to Nathan LaMotte play Edelweiss featuring Pianoteq 7.

However, even after installing the ASIO4ALL driver, I could not completely get rid of the latency.

The price of the Casio CDP-S350 Digital Piano plus the Pianotek 7 Standard VST Plug-in is $549 + $275 = $824.

It would be ridiculous to pay this amount when you can get the Yamaha DGX-670 for $800.

The Yamaha DGX-670 is a far more capable device with a good 88-key graded hammer action keybed and decent piano samples. Plus you never have to worry about latency issues. At this $800 price point the Yamaha DGX-670 rules. It is the best 88-key arranger keyboard for a beginner.

Later the user can add the Yamaha PSR-SX900 to access a wider collection of Style and Voices while still taking advantage of the 88 keys on the DGX-670. One can think of the PSR-SX900 as the younger brother of the GENOS at less than half the price.

It should be noted that none of these digital pianos and the VST Plug-ins sound as good as a real acoustic concert grand.

An enormous amount of engineering, craftsmanship and effort goes into making an Acoustic Concert Grand Piano.


Here is an interesting documentary on the making of a New York Factory Steinway Model D.

It takes 1 year to build one.

Steinway makes about 2000 a year while other companies mass produce 100 pianos a day.

Listen to this comparison video of the rich tones of the Bösendorfer Imperial 290, Steinway D-274 and Yamaha CFX.

Listen to the delicate sounds from the Yamaha CFX Grand and Steinway Model D-274 used in the 18th International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition

Digital pianos cannot convey this level of emotion and fluidity, refinement and richness.

Then again, a Steinway Model D-274 costs $175,000. I have nothing to complain about my $2000 Roland RD-700GX laugh






Edited by Tapas (07/21/21 07:06 PM)

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#503324 - 07/21/21 07:46 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Chordana Play for Piano App for Casio CDP-S350

One of the useful features that comes with the Casio CDP-S350 Digital Piano is the free Chordana Play for Piano App that installs on your tablet or smartphone.

With this app you can select from the 700 voices and 200 styles, play and practice with the built in songs and exercises and play back any MIDI file.

It works flawlessly with my iPad Air 2 tablet which has a Lightning Port. You need a Camera Connection Adapter.

The official Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter is expensive.

I found this USB Camera Adapter with Charging Port to be a better and cheaper solution.

Do not buy the Lightning Adapters that attaches directly to the Lightning Port like this one.

The Lightning Port is fragile and is prone to breakage. It is better to have a flexible cable between the Lightning Port and the USB Port.

Overall, I found the Casio CDP-S350 to be an economical way to add a graded hammer action 88-key keybed to the Yamaha GENOS. It doubles as a MIDI controller on your desktop.

It is light, slim and portable. It is the ideal keyboard for a beginner taking piano lessons.

An extra inch and a half in depth could have made the black keys more enjoyable to play on.

Inclusion of a quality piano voice like the one on the Yamaha P45 would have made the CDP-S350 a perfect digital piano at $549.

Casio has an active Facebook Group named Casio Keyboards and Digital Pianos.

User questions are often answered by Rich Formidoni and Mike Martin.

Casio Music Forums is another good resource.










Edited by Tapas (07/22/21 04:27 AM)

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#503325 - 07/21/21 08:04 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Perhaps this might be better put in its own dedicated thread. It’s hard to see how any of this relates to the ‘Anticipated release date of Genos 5’.

Months or years from now, how is anyone going to find this?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#503331 - 07/22/21 04:52 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 698
Loc: Russia
Tapas, thank you, it is rather interesting !

So far I didn’t have much luck with VSTs due to latency and overloading, I guess, in order to use VSTs with rich sounds I need to have a really powerful computer.

As for adding Casio CDP-S350 to Genos I find it a bit exotic as they are so opposite to each other money wise. It’s shame that Casio has a lot of products that seem so interesting on paper but in reality there’s something important missing.

And what a story with this confrontation between Casio and the reviewer. Although, if I put myself in Casio’s shoes, I would probably say something similar, but the thing is that I don’t want to be in such shoes.

Diki, it’s true about a bit of off topic here, still, I guess, when there’s barely any talk right now here it’s natural to start a conversation where there’s at least some signs of life.

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#503332 - 07/22/21 05:34 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Kabinopus]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 298
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Hi Kabinopus,

I appreciate your feedback and observations!

I agree with the latency issues that can never be completely eliminated while working with VST Plug-ins.

Unlike the Garritan and Vienna VST’s which are sample based, the Pianoteq VST is completely based on physical modeling. It has to recreate every note you play on the fly. This may be adding to the latency.

So when I play a direct sound on the Casio, I could hear an echo. The direct sound plays first followed by the Pianoteq voice it triggers. This echo effect is annoying. The solution is to completely turn off the direct sound from the Casio and adjust your playing style to the Pianoteq voices alone.

I was really hoping for the Casio CDP-S350 compact digital piano to act as an economical portable controller for the GENOS. I began to look for other solutions.

I have good news!!

I think I have found the perfect portable 88-key graded hammer action controller for the GENOS.


This is the Roland RD-88 Stage Piano.


This device has everything I wanted in a compact form factor that weighs less than 30 lbs.

For a gigging musician, the Roland RD-88/GENOS combo offers unbeatable functionality.

I am waiting for the shipment from our good friend Frank Ventresca.

I will write about all the pros and cons once I have the RD-88 integrated with the GENOS.

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#503335 - 07/22/21 07:37 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Ingres Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 86
Loc: FWI
Originally Posted By Diki
Perhaps this might be better put in its own dedicated thread. It’s hard to see how any of this relates to the ‘Anticipated release date of Genos 5’.

Months or years from now, how is anyone going to find this?

computer
_________________________
from now on, on some forums, I make a screen copy... in case... time will tell
imagine some people you know having more power...luckily God knows best! Take it easy ... and funny!

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#503337 - 07/22/21 09:22 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By Diki
Perhaps this might be better put in its own dedicated thread. It’s hard to see how any of this relates to the ‘Anticipated release date of Genos 5’.


📝
Agree 100%.
Sometimes, or often, threads goes to other directions or topic than refers to in the threads title, and then return again.
But this one, is now been sailing far far away from the original topic.
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#503343 - 07/22/21 02:42 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
To be honest, I think you would get a far better conversation about a topic by starting one with the title stating what it’s about…

Someone uninterested in idle speculation on the direction of a new uber-expensive Genos might be interested in everything else on this thread, but will miss it because they don’t want to plow through pages of stuff they aren’t interested in.

Yes, threads tend to diverge, but once they refocus on a totally different topic, why not start a new thread, and leave a URL to point to the continuation of the unrelated topic?

A couple of years from now, you will be thanking me when you want to revisit a topic, and it is now in a thread ABOUT that topic!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#503411 - 07/31/21 08:56 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
LeonB Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 41
Loc: Croatia
I agree that we should return to the topic. In that direction I put a link to the video. These are my 20 favorites to improve. Of course there is a lot more but I think these are realistic wishes.

20 Wish list for new features at Yamaha Genos by Casper

Regards, casper
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#503435 - 08/02/21 11:25 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: LeonB]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By LeonB


Turn on subtitles if you don't understand the commentary. There IS an English translation.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506749 - 10/07/22 05:08 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
vitalog2010 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/30/22
Posts: 4
Dear friends,

I have wrote an actual article of my personal and biggest wishes list for new generation of the Genos. I hope my option will be useful for you.

Here my article about new Genos2: https://psrstyles.com/our-blog/yamaha-keyboard-news/43-yamaha-genos-2-coming.html

If you have your own option, you can take a comment on this forum or in the article page.

Thank you So much

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#506772 - 10/09/22 12:15 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Terrysutt Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/17
Posts: 420
Loc: United Kingdom
Why are we giving attention to a post from 2021,13 Pages?

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#506774 - 10/09/22 01:41 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
You have to ask yourself, what would a Genos 2 cost if they actually added all your suggestions..?

It’s already completely outside most people’s budget, I don’t see how that laundry list could be added without another couple of grand added.

The only thing I think it needs is that ‘2 styles at the same time’ thing that Korg just came out with. It’s the only SIGNIFICANT improvement to the basic arranger playbook in 15 years or more. And it wouldn’t add anything to the hardware cost…

💵💵💵
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506782 - 10/10/22 02:22 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
vitalog2010 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/30/22
Posts: 4
Thank you Diki

Of course understand what do you mean smile The price of the Genos 2 with all there features will be very expensive. But please be kindly informed, that it is only my personal wish list smile And if even Yamaha Corporation will add this options one by one during a few years, it will be a good idea smile


Edited by vitalog2010 (10/10/22 02:29 PM)

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#506783 - 10/10/22 02:24 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Terrysutt]
vitalog2010 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/30/22
Posts: 4
Terrysutt,

Because I avoided to open new duplicate topic. Similar topic is already exist. This topic is still actual even in 2022 and will be actual in 2023 maybe wink

Thank you wink


Edited by vitalog2010 (10/10/22 02:28 PM)

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#506788 - 10/11/22 09:21 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I think a few of your suggestions are quite likely. It seems that the sub-systems for inexpensive HDMI output have become available. That’s a high probability, and wouldn’t add to the cost significantly.

It some of your suggestions seem far too ‘pro studio’, and the fact of the matter is, I would estimate that fewer than 5% (and that’s a generous estimate!) of all Genos sales end up as the core of a professional studio. Balanced outputs aren’t really needed in a studio, if you aren’t within 3-4ft of the interface/mixer, you use one of the many D/I boxes the studio has. However, most keyboard centric project studios are based around the main keyboard, so the cable run from the keyboard is pretty short. Not to mention that, unlike guitars and things like that, the signal level from keyboard main outputs is VERY high, and s/n ratios remain very high despite longer 6-10ft+ cable runs.

Admittedly it’s not an expensive addition, but it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist for the vast majority of performers.

And there’s a reason that high speed computer level I/o and data pipes aren’t in keyboards. Despite the myths, they aren’t computers inside. They don’t use off the shelf CPU’s and motherboards. They use custom chips. And these cost a fortune to develop. So they have ALWAYS trailed computers by a decade or more. And that trend is unlikely to change.

The thing to focus on are things that can be improved without a major change to hardware. Get enough people on board, you got a chance to influence the design team.

To be honest, I’m a bit disappointed by the botched rollout of the PA5x. It seems to have shipped (albeit in small numbers) FAR too soon, and the OS is a disaster for professionals. If it had been launched in a gig ready state, it could put substantial pressure on Yamaha to up their game to compete and one-up them. But as things stand, the current Genos is still the top ‘professional’ arranger if its styles and soundset float your boat. Korg’s older PA4X holds the lead if you rely on ethnic sounds and styles, but the new PA5x just isn’t ready to go yet.

So Yamaha are not being pressured the way they need to be for your laundry list of hardware to be addressed even slightly. But software’s another thing.
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