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#502302 - 02/21/21 03:19 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13153
Loc: NW Florida
Roland are history.
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#502308 - 02/22/21 09:17 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 608
Loc: Netherlands
There is a lot that can be improved on the Genos ,at first the finish and build quality is a shame for this price category
8 Gb Flash mem ( ore more)
Oled screen ( very high def)
metal case finish, black
on board voice editor or better pc software ( like the MX/montage series)
new foot pedal like the Mfc10 and all the controls
smaller design of case ( like Korg)
better I-pad integration, or android apps
Multi Pad Quantisator
HDMi output ( not a silly adapter)
YC61 sound engine
Full style editor
Automatic VH like that other top arranger (Pa4) smile
better Rotary effect with decent overdrive programmable
a decent replacement form YEM ( it’s terrible now)
And a better Yamaha website for software , Musicsoft is the worst site i ever workt with

I cool
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#502309 - 02/22/21 09:53 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Impuls]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 246
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Impuls
There is a lot that can be improved on the Genos ,at first the finish and build quality is a shame for this price category
8 Gb Flash mem ( ore more)
Oled screen ( very high def)
metal case finish, black
on board voice editor or better pc software ( like the MX/montage series)
new foot pedal like the Mfc10 and all the controls
smaller design of case ( like Korg)
better I-pad integration, or android apps
Multi Pad Quantisator
HDMi output ( not a silly adapter)
YC61 sound engine
Full style editor
Automatic VH like that other top arranger (Pa4) smile
better Rotary effect with decent overdrive programmable
a decent replacement form YEM ( it’s terrible now)
And a better Yamaha website for software , Musicsoft is the worst site i ever workt with

I cool


I agree your list of suggested improvements!

Each one would be a worthy enhancement to the GENOS 2.

I would like to have a USB 3.0 port for faster file transfers. YEM is slow.

Not knowing when Yamaha would be releasing the GENOS 2, I decided to order the current model from Frank Ventresca, owner of AudioProCT.com

I have a feeling Yamaha already has the GENOS 2 ready for production. They are simply holding on to see what Korg comes up with the Pa5X. The moment Korg announces the Pa5X, Yamaha would reveal the GENOS 2 and blow out the competition.

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#502310 - 02/22/21 10:13 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
dud Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 210
Loc: israel
I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE GENOS2 OR KORG PAX5 OR ANY NEW FLAGSHIP , BECAUSE WE THE OLD PEOPLE WHO STILL USE ARRANGERS NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GIVE THE COMPANEIS CHANCE TO EARN ENOUGH MONEY.
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#502311 - 02/22/21 11:32 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: dud]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 246
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By dud
I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE GENOS2 OR KORG PAX5 OR ANY NEW FLAGSHIP , BECAUSE WE THE OLD PEOPLE WHO STILL USE ARRANGERS NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GIVE THE COMPANEIS CHANCE TO EARN ENOUGH MONEY.


I agree these top of the line arrangers from Yamaha and Korg have more features and capabilities than what an Arranger Player would care to explore and exploit their full potential.

However, hardware costs are falling every year. Sometimes it is hard to get the same Motherboard after 5 years. This is the reason Manufacturers go for a Hardware redesign every 5 years or so. With falling prices and powerful chips they can afford to cram in more voices, effects, sound engines and features without increasing the price.

I have a feeling Yamaha will announce the GENOS 2 in October this year followed by a release in NAMM 2022. It will be a worthy successor to the announcement of the original GENOS in October 2017.

I also believe they will keep the same price point and incorporate many of the enhancements requested by the user community.

Some enhancements like adding the 10,239 Arpeggios from the MONTAGE should be easy.

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#502312 - 02/22/21 11:45 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 246
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I would like to see the GENOS 2 come equipped with MIDI 2.0 specs.

That alone will raise the bar to new heights. Think of all the possibilities when you set up the GENOS 2 as the hub of your studio with connected devices.

Roland has reincarnated the original A-88 MIDI Keyboard Controller as the new A-88 MKII with MIDI 2.0 and USB-C connectivity.

https://www.roland.com/global/products/a-88mk2/

Technology is marching forward. No one can afford to stay in the same spot for very long and survive.

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#502316 - 02/23/21 12:24 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 246
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
If the GENOS 2 comes with MIDI 2.0, it would be a breeze to connect other MIDI 2.0 capable devices like external controllers, sound modules, digital mixers, control surfaces, etc.

The communication would be 2-way and the configuration would be automatic since MIDI 2.0 devices can see each others properties.

This article encapsulates the world of possibilities with the MIDI 2.0 specs finalized by the MIDI Association.

https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/details-about-midi-2-0-midi-ci-profiles-and-property-exchange

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#502318 - 02/23/21 10:25 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13153
Loc: NW Florida
While there’s a few of us that embrace 21st century workflows, let’s not get too ahead of ourselves. It’s probably not incorrect to assume that the vast majority of even TOTL arrangers are played by folk with little interest in MIDI 2.0, handshaking with control surfaces, digital mixers etc.!

You are expecting a huge investment from Yamaha to promote features that at best would appeal to 5% of their customer base. In these troubled economic times, I wouldn’t fault Yamaha for pausing on further hardware progress, especially as they already have a considerable lead already.

We often conflate progress with computers with progress for keyboards. Nothing could be further from the truth. Computers, tablets, smartphones, these are produced by the hundreds of millions and generate billions in profits. Arrangers, OTOH, sell in thousands at best and make obviously far less. So the R&D budget is tiny. That they are as advanced as they already are is astounding! But expecting parity with progress of an industry thousands of times more profitable is pie in the sky, I’m afraid...

Keyboards were still using SCSI long after the computer industry dropped it. Same with USB 1, then USB 2.0, now 3. And don’t get me started about data pipes to transfer samples into an arranger!

We are a tiny subset of a tiny niche of a tiny total market. We’re lucky they even make them!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502319 - 02/23/21 11:57 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 246
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Diki
While there’s a few of us that embrace 21st century workflows, let’s not get too ahead of ourselves. It’s probably not incorrect to assume that the vast majority of even TOTL arrangers are played by folk with little interest in MIDI 2.0, handshaking with control surfaces, digital mixers etc.!

You are expecting a huge investment from Yamaha to promote features that at best would appeal to 5% of their customer base. In these troubled economic times, I wouldn’t fault Yamaha for pausing on further hardware progress, especially as they already have a considerable lead already.

We often conflate progress with computers with progress for keyboards. Nothing could be further from the truth. Computers, tablets, smartphones, these are produced by the hundreds of millions and generate billions in profits. Arrangers, OTOH, sell in thousands at best and make obviously far less. So the R&D budget is tiny. That they are as advanced as they already are is astounding! But expecting parity with progress of an industry thousands of times more profitable is pie in the sky, I’m afraid...

Keyboards were still using SCSI long after the computer industry dropped it. Same with USB 1, then USB 2.0, now 3. And don’t get me started about data pipes to transfer samples into an arranger!

We are a tiny subset of a tiny niche of a tiny total market. We’re lucky they even make them!


I completely agree with your viewpoint that we represent a tiny niche in the market.

The Yamaha GENOS with its 256 voice polyphony, 491 Pro Styles, 75 Super Articulation 2 Voices, a vast arsenal of studio quality effects (358 Presets) and the ability to use 28 insert effects puts is ahead of the competition.

The Yamaha GENOS is a statement product. It has everything to keep an Arranger Player happy for many years to come.

On the other hand, the capabilities of MIDI 2.0 are tantalizing.

This Webinar discussing the MIDI 2.0 specs that was held on May 25th, 2019 explains the concepts behind Profile Configuration, Property Exchange, Protocol Negotiation and Universal MIDI Packets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NlLsUJn16M

With the current MIDI protocol, you can transmit up to 16 MIDI Channels. MIDI 2.0 introduces the concept of Groups. Each Group can have up to 16 MIDI Channels. So you get 256 MIDI Channels through a single MIDI cable.

MIDI 2.0 devices can query properties from connected devices. This means a Digital Audio Workstation will immediately know the names of the Patches of the MIDI 2.0 capable GENOS.

A MIDI 2.0 capable MONTAGE would instantly interface with the GENOS and act as a dual manual.

Imagine if some point in the future Yamaha releases the GENOS 2 with MIDI 2.0 specs and then surprise the NAMM audience by using a next generation MONTAGE to act as a controller with its faders automatically mapped and then use the next generation CUBASE to record and edit a performance with all the Patch Names being displayed without having to manually enter a patch list.

Think of how much time was wasted in the past trying to find a Sonar Instrument Definition File (.INS) or a Cubase Patch List or Logic Environment for your favorite keyboard or sound module.

MIDI 2.0 will greatly simplify the workflow.

The technology is already here.

I hope we don’t have to wait too long for the market to support this initiative.



Edited by Tapas (02/23/21 12:00 PM)

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#502326 - 02/25/21 11:20 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 49
Originally Posted By Diki
So the R&D budget is tiny.


In fact it is so tiny that the Genos firmware (style playing engine) is no meaningfully different than it was in Tyros 1. Probably even older than that, but unfortunately, although not a boy anymore, I am too young to go further back.....

It is a marketing miracle how they can resell the same product over and over again, mostly to the same customers (which in the meanwhile got silver haired). It is as if Microsoft would be still selling Windows 3.1, with some marginal repackaging. At jewelry prices.
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