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#502361 - 03/01/21 11:34 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By Tapas
Hi GroovyBand.Live,

Your upcoming product will be a game changer if you can make a professional synth like the MONTAGE behave like an arranger.

I can only imagine how much better the accompaniment will sound with the MONTAGE as the source.

Please keep us informed on your progress.


As soon as we approach the realese date, we will post here (in a dedicated thread) some mp3 samples .....

Stay tuned.
_________________________
Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#502362 - 03/02/21 01:34 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5514
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Aside from the arranger capabilities, I am interested to know if a midi player, GM2 exists. Besides styles, I also use Notation Composer in my laptop, but not satisfied with the sound compared to top arrangers.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#502370 - 03/02/21 05:58 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
If the provided content doesn’t fully utilize a next gen capability, it’s not a recipe for success...

Take Roland’s last couple of arrangers - The EA7 has a decent sampler, and can play audio loops as multipads. The BK9 could also play audio loops in sync with styles and SMF’s. But Roland provided ZERO content for any of these features, and consequently what could have been extremely competitive arrangers ended up being the death knell of the brand.

Relying on your customers to provide the content isn’t a good bet!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502407 - 03/05/21 05:19 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The Yamaha GENOS comes with 550 superbly arranged and mixed Factory Styles sorted under 15 Categories.

For anybody wanting to analyze or audition how any specific GENOS Style compares with their favorite arranger, Michael Lumley has undertaken the monumental task of showcasing each and every one of these 550 Styles that you can audition on YouTube:

He has posted 15 videos each spanning an hour to two hours and 30 minutes in length.

Click on SHOW MORE to view the full description under each video.

Michael has gone the extra mile to index every video to jump to any specific Style within a Category.


1.
Pop Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS3fJ6m08Eg

2 hours

2.
Rock Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBkNZoYzagQ

1 hour

3.
Retro Pop Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMe93grtg0Q

2 hours

4.
Oldies Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCJO2BYnUPw

1 hour 40 mins

5.
Dance Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KlHMMGMbII

2 hours 11 mins

6.
R&B Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4xBZK6mi88

2 hours

7.
Entertainer Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jcuK1J5UE4

2 hours 30 mins

8.
Country Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQykOugw9fw

1 hour 50 mins

9.
Jazz Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQmxbJ1KBt4

1 hour 30 mins

10.
Easy Listening Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9EdfA21IvM

1 hour 48 mins

11.
Latin Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwSkvVgdols

1 hour 30 mins

12.
Ballroom Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak0hldBYjUU

1 hour 42 mins

13.
Movie & Show Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWHU1See_q4

2 hours

14.
Classic & Events Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGRH_0vpfKY&t=59s

1 hour 12 mins

15.
Traditional & Folk Styles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuyQHjY4qSs

2 hours


That is 27 hours of back to back Yamaha GENOS Styles – all professionally voiced and rendered by various Yamaha programmers from around the world!

Once you realize the sheer volume of work that went into crafting these styles you begin to understand why the Yamaha GENOS Arranger is priced so much higher than the Yamaha MONTAGE.

You must have a way to recoup the cost of creating these styles taking full advantage of the capabilities and effects of the sound engine of every new arranger model.

Above all, it is the quality of the Styles that can make or break an Arranger Keyboard.

The Yamaha GENOS has about 200 Arpeggio Patterns. This makes the MEGA Voices playable.

The Yamaha MONTAGE on the other hand comes with a massive library of 10,239 Arpeggio Presets. This makes the MONTAGE the reigning king of Arps.

The R&D has already gone into the MONTAGE to create this set.

I would like to see all these Arps transferred to the next generation GENOS.

I would also like to see the Voice Expansion capacity doubled from 3GB to 6GB.

With so many free expansion packs from Yamaha, there is hardly any space left to load a multi-gigabyte Piano Sample.

Hats off to Michael Lumley for his efforts to showcase each of these 550 Yamaha GENOS Styles.

I was shocked when I looked at his YouTube Channel - KeyboardKrazy49

https://www.youtube.com/user/KeyboardKrazy49/videos


He has over 500 videos documenting every Yamaha Arranger his has owned over the past 10 years with helpful tips and tricks and comprehensive tutorials.

Here are a couple of his Tutorials on the GENOS:

Yamaha Genos Keyboard Tutorial - Some Of The Basic & Intermediate Functions / Features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAdNuIC49KI

Yamaha Genos Keyboard Tutorial 2 - Some Of The Advanced Functions / Features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNd5lmfOD0o


This is a work of passion.

It is the enthusiasm and support from fans like Michael that has helped to make the Yamaha GENOS the top Arranger Keyboard in the world.





Edited by Tapas (03/07/21 09:36 AM)

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#502415 - 03/07/21 03:28 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
I think the economy of scale accounts for the price difference between workstations and arrangers a lot more than the content. Workstations probably sell 100:1 compared to arrangers, and exist in a far more populated and competitive environment.

If you sell 100X more of a product, you can sell them cheaper. And if you have more competition, you NEED to sell them cheaper!

Certainly, content is a factor. But not THAT much...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502416 - 03/07/21 04:21 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Originally Posted By Diki
I think the economy of scale accounts for the price difference between workstations and arrangers a lot more than the content. Workstations probably sell 100:1 compared to arrangers, and exist in a far more populated and competitive environment.

If you sell 100X more of a product, you can sell them cheaper. And if you have more competition, you NEED to sell them cheaper!

Certainly, content is a factor. But not THAT much...



Hi Diki,

Excellent observation. We are in complete agreement here.

I agree the economy of scale plays a big part on why manufacturers can afford to sell Workstations at a lower price point.

Arranger Players are few and far in between.

There are also alternative solutions to Arrangers which can be more cost effective under certain use cases.

Let me expand on this topic comparing:


The Yamaha GENOS and PG Music's Band-in-a-Box


The Yamaha GENOS is the top Arranger Keyboard in the world.

In the hands of a classically trained pianist, it can replace an entire band with convincing results.

It is mesmerizing to watch Peter Baartmans play the GENOS:

https://youtu.be/XGHp5bAlPqc?t=392

https://youtu.be/ArNJ8NtPcas?t=118

https://youtu.be/Cc7fht_2Sxs?t=222

Peter even sings along in this demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNJ8NtPcas&t=502s

Nothing can replace an Arranger for its immediacy, the ability to trigger chords on the fly, change styles, add fills, initiate vocal clips with the use of multi-pads, all the while interacting with your audience.

On the other hand, what if you are not a trained keyboard player but rather a talented singer who just wants to go on stage to charm the audience?

You can hire a 5 piece band to play the Guitar, Bass, Organ, Horns and Drums to accompany your Vocals. That will cost money.

You can ask a friend who has a GENOS to provide the accompaniment.

Or, you can have Band-in-a-Box to create complete backing arrangements for you just by entering the Chord Names in a grid with a suitable style. It is the cheapest solution available to a Singer.

Band-in-a-Box customers have created a library of demo songs.

The quality of the production may surprise you:

https://www.pgmusic.com/bbradio.htm?pl=countryfolk1

The company has been in existence for 40 years with stellar Customer Support.

They sent me the Band-in-a-Box 2021 UltraPAK edition in a USB 3.0 external HD in less than 24 hours after placing the order online.

https://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

It comes with 3 programs:

  • Band-in-a-Box (32-bit)
  • Band-in-a-Box (64-bit)
  • RealBand (64-bit)


The installation takes 130GB of HD space. It is best to install this on an Internal SSD like a Samsung SSD 850 PRO (256GB), or you may simply run this off your external USB 3.0 HD.

Band-in-a-Box can be run strictly in MIDI mode where your sound source is an external sound module or keyboard.

However, the results will not be optimal. The reason being Band-in-a-Box can only handle GM voices. It just sounds ok through a Roland SD-90 Sound Canvas.

You can use a GENOS or a Clavinova as your Sound Source. You will need to remap the GM voices to make the Band-in-a-Box styles sound better. However, that is a silly exercise. The built-in styles on the Yamaha arrangers outshine these MIDI styles

To get the best use of Band-in-a-Box you need to run RealBand 64.

This is a 64-bit application. All the tracks use live studio recordings of session players – Horns, Pedal Steel Guitars, Organs, Pianos, Drums, etc. There is no MIDI involved here. This allows every nuance of a live band to shine through.

The UltraPAK comes with a massive collection of 3,300 Real Tracks Styles.

It has an exhaustive collection of Ballads, Country, Folk, Blues and Jazz Styles – all recorded by professional musicians.

None of these Styles can be played in real time with Chord changes from a keyboard. You must enter the Chords beforehand to allow the program to render the tracks. This takes a few seconds.

All these Real Tracks are compressed to WMA files in the UltraPAK edition to save space. The compression ratio is 1:11.

Compression artifacts show up when you transpose these recordings to a different key or simply play them back through good quality speakers or headphones.

A better approach is to buy the Audiophile Edition which ships with the original CD Quality 16-bit 44.1kHz WAV files.

Sweetwater has the Audiophile Edition for $559.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/...r-windows-boxed

The size of the program is 1.5TB. It comes in a USB 3.0 external Hard Drive ready to play.

The best time to buy Band-in-a-Box is Dec 31st when they go on sale online.

If you are a Singer, the Band-in-a-Box Audiophile Edition is your best companion. You could take your PC or Mac Laptop along with this External HD on stage and mimic the backing of a live band recorded by professional session players.

They do sound more authentic and organic than the built-in styles on an arranger. It is more cost-effective as well.

Woody Piano Shack has posted two videos on YouTube comparing Band-in-a-Box styles with the Yamaha PSR SX900 styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK8p1p2KLmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzjQualAEow


Band-in-a-Box has narrowly focused their market on these Country/Folk/Jazz singers.

If you are into electronic dance music, you are better served using a GENOS or an AKAI Force, or MPC One.

If you are a keyboard player, the GENOS is the best choice to express your creativity with its professionally programmed Styles covering all genres of music along with its stellar set of Super Articulation 1 and 2 voices.

Band-in-a-Box by PG Music has evolved a lot over the past 40 years. I purchased my first Band-in-a-Box Version 7 UltraPAK edition along with Power Tracks Pro Audio at Winter NAMM 1998 (LA Convention Center) at a show special price of $100.

The size of the installation was only 14.5MB. It came in one CDROM with no serial number.

The size of the Audiophile Edition 2021 today has expanded to 1.5TB!

RealBand is the program to look out for. This has a lot of potential and far reaching ramifications on how singers and songwriters create music in their home studios.



Edited by Tapas (03/07/21 06:50 PM)

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#502417 - 03/07/21 09:10 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1109
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Although the Genos and PSR SX900 had some awesome break through features - they still lack in some areas where other boards are far ahead...

I have posted this list a couple of times in various forums about potential OS improvements for the PSR SX900 and Genos- which im sure could easily be done with an OS update:

1) FAVOURITES: When you allocate a new "favourite" voice or style - as soon as it works you automatically get reset to page 1 of that category... very annoying why cant it just keep you on the current page you were on? - so for example if the voice you select as a favourite is on page 6 - u then get reset to page 1 so u need to remember what page it was on and navigate back to the page to re select the voice or continue on searching through the voices...

2) STEP EDITOR (Style and Midi Song): in the step editor We should be able to do a "select all" instead of having to do "Multi Select" and keep pressing (or hold) the arrow buttons to scroll down and select more than one event.

3) STEP EDITOR (style and Midi Song): We should be able to do a granular "select all" where we can select all of a certain note only for example: I want to select every note that is above the C0 range or only all C0 notes to make edits to them such as volume or velocity... currently you need to manually press each one individually as you scroll down the list of events

4) Drum Edit: any of the drum track channels in a Midi song should be fully editable down to each individual sample being played in the drum track (individual note volume, velocity, reverb, re voicing etc) (without manually scrolling and doing it through the step editor)... Roland has had this in their style and song "make up tools" for about 20+ years?

5) Another missing feature: Octave shift of the bass note being played when Accomp is ON but the style is OFF (and editability of the bass note - re voicing? it is currently fixed on a slap bass note???) - also being able to leave it on auto hold as well as the pad voice being played that is following your chord progression while the style is off...

The PSR SX 900 and Genos have "work station" functionality but when compared to level of workstation functionality with other branded boards they dont go as deep... the above tweaks would definitely take them right up there..
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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#502425 - 03/09/21 07:48 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
Look Tapas, we’re trying to get away from this confrontational ‘xyz is the best arranger on the planet’ BS here at SZ...

For YOU, yes it might be better. And someone with a PA4X might feel that the Korg is the best. Some of us still find Roland’s work best for us, or Ketron’s. Some of us might feel a software solution like Groovyband might be best.

But these are OPINIONS, not fact.

For every strong point, there’s a weakness. No exceptions. So how about dialing down the rhetoric..?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502427 - 03/09/21 08:28 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Ditto!
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#502428 - 03/09/21 08:35 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: travlin'easy]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
DITTO, JOHN C.

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