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#502429 - 03/09/21 09:33 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: bruno123]
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
DITTO MEL
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KORG PA1000, KORG PA900, 2 BOSE S1 PROS, 2 BOSE L1 COMPACTS, YAMAHA STAGEPAS 500, ROLAND VP7

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#502437 - 03/12/21 04:39 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: organgrinder]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The Band-in-a-Box 2021 OmniPAK Audiophile Edition has exceeded all my expectations.

The highly compressed (1:11 ratio) wma files in the UltraPAK edition was revealing compression artifacts during Key Transposition. This made me decide to make the switch to the Audiophile Editon to access the uncompressed WAV files.

While gathering more information on this Audiophile Edition I found out that PG Music sells an OmniPAK Version of the Audiophile Edition:

https://www.pgmusic.com/omnipak.htm

Half way through this 18-min demo I was sold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLbtplh2uRE

I could not believe just how many music production tools, lessons, tutorials, master classes, demos, games and utilities the company has managed to compile into this all-in-one package.

There is something for everybody from a beginner to a hobbyist to a professional musician. This is a must have collection for a pianist, guitarist, saxophone player or a vocalist.

Just a quick call to Chantelle at PG Music was all it took to upgrade my UltraPAK edition to the OmniPAK Audiophile Edition. She had it delivered via UPS Express service in less than 24 hours.

Everything came pre-installed on a Seagate 2 TB USB 3.0 external hard drive. I was stunned at the sheer number of programs that were included. The content filled up 1.51 TB of space.

The WAV tracks sounds pristine. They have been recorded well with zero noise and sparkling clarity. This is the real deal.

The size of the RealTracks folder is 1.33 TB

I can see right away how this OmniPAK Audiophile Edition can benefit a Yamaha GENOS user.

The killer feature is the included RealBand 64-bit application that can seamlessly stitch together phrases of all backing tracks recorded as Audio WAV files by accomplished Studio Musicians once you lay down the Chords to a Song. It manages to transpose these phrases to any specified Chord within a reasonable range of Tempo without adding any audible glitches.

This is trivial with MIDI but not an easy feat when you are dealing with Audio Tracks.

Because these are audio recordings played on real instruments (not synthesized), they convey a higher degree of realism and nuance while sounding more organic and live.

I found this especially evident while playing back RealTrack Country Styles featuring the Pedal Steel Guitar.

The GENOS does a fine job of emulating a Pedal Steel Guitar, but the slides do not quite sound as authentic as the real instrument.

Who knows maybe someday the Arranger Keyboards will begin to include Audio Tracks for their backing accompaniment. KETRON was the first company to introduce Audio Drum tracks in an Arranger Keyboard. Yamaha followed soon after.

If you want to have all your backing tracks use Audio, Band-in-a-Box is the only game in town.

Dr. Peter Gannon founded this company in 1988. PG Music is named after his initials. It has evolved by leaps and bounds since its introduction as a MIDI sequencer on the Atari.

Their Customer Support is absolutely top-notch. Since PG Music is located in Vancouver, British Columbia, you save in taxes by ordering direct.

What makes their software so easy to use are the hundreds of short tutorials they have posted on their website. They cover everything from initial Setup to using various features that may interest a wide spectrum of users from an absolute beginner to a pro.

https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm

They have more videos on their YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHpF7zvR8o_6qLsvcoG9Dkg/videos

A lot of demos created by the Band-in-a-Box Users are featured on the PG Music Forum:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=50

They have a lengthy product line with various upgrade options:

https://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

In my opinion it is best to skip all these packages and make a one-time purchase of the OmniPAK Audiophile Edition. This is a steal of a deal that will keep you happy for many years.

The next best option is to buy the OmniPAK Regular Edition. You will miss out on the uncompressed WAV files on the RealTracks and Drums.

There is no single tool that could satisfy everyone. Competition is great. It propels innovation bringing newer technology at affordable price points.

Would Yamaha have developed REVO Drums without KETRON pioneering the way?






Edited by Tapas (03/13/21 10:30 AM)

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#502466 - 03/14/21 08:23 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The superb clarity of GENOS voices


Here is one of the best demonstrations of all the Categories of the Voices on a Yamaha GENOS.

It is played by a trained Pianist on a Yamaha Clavinova CVP-809 which has the same voices as the GENOS with a slightly better piano sample.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYe49M4xIBo

The above video is indexed to help you jump to any voice category.


The CFX Concert Grand Piano sample on the GENOS is not bad at all as shown at the beginning of this demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NanYi7WD6E

The weighted wooden keys on the Clavinova makes the piano sample more playable. You could use a Roland RD-700GX as a lower manual to trigger the piano samples on the GENOS.



Here is another good demo of the Guitar voices on the GENOS.

https://youtu.be/SDDrYEDEyPA?t=144

No arranger keyboard has been able to faithfully emulate the sound of a Pedal Steel Guitar with long slides spanning an octave of notes. They do a reasonably good job with short slides.


I would be very curious to find out what improvements in voices the successor to the GENOS brings.

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#502472 - 03/15/21 10:39 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Yeah, got to admit, when it comes to pedal steel, the Genos has pulled off a major improvement, especially in terms of bending just one note WITHIN the chord. I’m guessing that it revolves around the chord recognition helping determine which note to bend (I think the only thing I’ve heard was the third/second moving within the chord) so you aren’t tied to a particular inversion. Very clever stuff, although I’m not sure if the trick can be pulled off if you don’t input the chord information.

However, I’m still unconvinced by guitar sounds that use velocity to trigger hammer-ons, as a real guitar can perform hammer-ons and -offs at any strength. Personally (see? Opinion, not fact!) I think Roland achieved this in their SN guitars in the BK-9 much better by having the hammer-on or off (yes, it can do both) be triggered by a legato phrase on notes up to a third apart, but at ANY velocity. So, quiet or loud, you get the effect when YOU want it, not when the velocity trigger point is exceeded, which can be tough to hit consistently. One thing I notice in a lot of guitar emulation using those types of sounds is quite a lot of accidental hammer-ons, in places that no guitarist would do them..! Plus, of course, it’s only ever a hammer-on, never a hammer-off or pull-off.

I think Roland did an amazing job in making the articulations on their SuperNatural guitar sounds feel utterly natural and under the player’s total control. Want an articulation, you PLAY the articulation, not have a sample play it for you. I find that a lot easier to stay focused on the playing, rather than trying to remember what strength I have to play at to get the effect.

It’s a shame that, having close to perfected guitar articulation control, Roland bow out of the segment. Although the jazz guitar SN sound can deliver some impressive rock guitar leads (by running it through amp sims and effects) I would have LOVED to have clean Strat and Les Paul articulated sounds to do the same to...

You haven’t lived until you hear the difference between a sampled distorted guitar sound and a clean one run into a cranked up amp sim! After all, that’s how guitarists do it... 🎹🎸
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502568 - 04/02/21 04:08 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I was stunned listening to this demo of the Yamaha GENOS by Krzysztof Pajak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGuI6dEvBQE


I lost count of how many popular songs he played back to back during this 60 min presentation.

At the 26 min mark Krzysztof plays the Pedal Steel Guitar to Taylor Swift’s Romeo & Juliette.

At the 29 min mark he showcases the REVO! drums that were introduced in the GENOS.

His playing skills are extraordinary. I could not stop watching.


Here is another demo from Krzysztof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_69YQ_wTTyQ

I found out from his LinkedIn profile that he is a freelance artist for Yamaha Europe based in Poland where he runs his own Keyboard Store.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/krzysztof-pajak-69910ab1/

Yamaha has managed to attract and harness the talent the best keyboardists from all across the world.

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#502570 - 04/02/21 08:11 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
I noticed when he went to demoing the pedal steel, he started a track and played LH chords. I am still a little confused as to how the pedal steel bend effects work...

Can you elaborate? Is it always the third that bends, or top note/bottom note depending on inversion? Does the inversion of the LH chord have any influence on the note? Being from the States, obviously, pedal steel is a big part of much popular music, and I have tried my best for 40 years to master pedal steel stylings, but have always been frustrated by the inability to bend a note INSIDE the chord.

The only time I found something that allowed this (my K2500 and E! Gray Matter DX7 mod allows you to bend only notes played, not notes held by the sustain pedal, so you play the full chord, sustain it and then lift all fingers but the note you want to bend) it is actually pretty non-intuitive and quite difficult to pull off accurately at anything other than really slow tempi.

So this Yamaha system is apparently very effective, but I’d like to know how it works, and what the limitations are. Can you explain in detail?
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502571 - 04/02/21 09:46 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Hi Diki,

I am baffled as well.

On the real Pedal Steel Guitar you can change the tension on one or more strings by pressing on pedals. As you change the tension on a string, it changes the tuning.

So while you lay the steel bar perpendicular across several strings you have the capability to change the tuning on one or more strings on the fly by engaging the pedals which in turn changes the pitch of the affected strings.

It is really an amazing machine operated by levers.

How does the GENOS manage to pull off a convincing slide of a Pedal Steel Guitar over a short range? I am curious to find out as well.

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#502576 - 04/02/21 05:46 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Ah, I thought from your enthusiastic posts you already had one. Oh well!

Anyone else?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#502580 - 04/02/21 06:46 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
There was a video on YouTube I saw that explained it.
They set the pitch bend to only bend one note. Not all keys pressed.
Eric
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#502581 - 04/02/21 10:11 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Found this https://youtu.be/kFABywwB8LE but it’s in German. From what I can see, I only see the bottom note bending, I’m not sure there’s any other mode. Can anyone understand the video..?

I guess I could get used to it, but it’s a shame there don’t seem to be top note bend modes as well. But at least for live band use or with audio tracks, I guess it’s a good thing it doesn’t need to be driven by a LH chord.

Did you find an English demo of the feature, Eric?
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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