When Bebop sends all these songs out and I want to put them all on one floppy, I have to change the numbered sequence so that number one does not erase number one that may already be on the disk.
In other words if there are 2 files both number 1, I will re name one of the files to say...15. After doing this, number 15 will show up on the 7000, but may not load, sometimes a message no file on 15 appears on the 7000 screen. However if I go into Disk Tools and hit the Delete button for 15, magically 15 is fixed and loads and plays.

Finally... my question:
What is the proper way to rename identical numerical files so that they will all load on the 7000, and does anyone know why the DEL button in Disk tools repairs a corrupt file ?

Thanks
Larry Hawk

I can give you an educated guess on part of your question.
I think that if the file does not appear in the load page than the kn does not recognize a good file. But it does in delete menu. which then helps it to recognize it? the kn's ncan have trouble reading disks. Its in my opinion a bug with kns and not bad disks. something is not quite right in the disk drives or something.
Tony

The easiest way to rename the files is to use a free program named "CKRename". Just go to Google and search for CKRename to find a download site.
Walt

I also notice that files that load with no problems are listed in this exact order :

1 .ACT
2 .CMP
3 .EFM
4 .LSW
5 .MSP
6 .PMT
7 .SQT
8 .TM

So am I to assume if they are not listed on the floppy in the above exact order, that the 7000 will not read it ?
because...
If I try to rename the songs in windows(xp) the order is not the same as before renaming. What happens to me is after renaming the song the .ACT file is not listed first, rather last, and the above order is mixed.

I guess I'll try CKRename as Walt suggests

Thanks
Larry Hawk

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lahawk:
[B]
I also notice that files that load with no problems are listed in this exact order :

1 .ACT
2 .CMP
3 .EFM
4 .LSW
5 .MSP
6 .PMT
7 .SQT
8 .TM

Thanks Larry. That is probably it! That exact order happens to be alphabetical order.
So if the machine looks for .act and gets to something else 1st it assumes it is not there, not being programs to look further than .cmp. being that the kn does not put it in any other order than alphabetical it is just that technics didn't make it more intelligent. they thought there was no cause. a windows scrambling of the order is to be blamed on microsoft. Sound right to you? Come to think of it, disks I had trouble with were put in my PC to add midi files. I see thats not a good thing to have midi AND tech files on one disk. Even though the order can be changed to correct it. If I add just one midid file on a disk the kn might read it 1st and not find .act.
Tony
Tony

I doubt if the actual order of the file components is relevant, since there are many combinations which could be present on a disc/card, depending on what parts are selected, during the save operation. I would expect that the operating system in the keyboards is sufficiently 'intelligent' to route the particular components to the required area in memory, based on the file extension.(.ACT, .SQT, .LSW)

------------------
Willum

Further to my last posting, I have carried out some further investigations. I copied a set of files for KN7000 from my PC to a blank floppy disc as a normal group. When viewing the files on the floppy disc, using Windows Explorer, they were listed with the extensions in Alphabetical order, as expected. I then copied the same files, one at a time, in random order, to another blank floppy disc. When viewed on PC, they were again in alphabetical order of extension, as expected. The sort order is a function of Windows operating system, depending on how the user decides to display the data - by filename, file size, date etc. so the actual order in which the files are stored on disc, is not shown in Windows Explorer.
I then used a Disc Hex Editor to look at the files on the two discs and compared their relative positions. The individual parts of the group of files on the discs were seen to be in different positions on the two floppies. I then loaded each disc into the KN7000 checked the playback of the songs and there was no problem.
Therefore, I can only assume that the actual position or order of the files on a disc is irrelevant.

------------------
Willum

Obviously, something wrong is happening in the renaming process with windows. All I do is change 01 to 08 (example)and the keyboard may not read 08.

It does seem to me that Sparky's alphabet therory is correct because all the original files are in alphabetical order, and as original stated, when the DEL button is clicked in Disk Tools, the file is possibly corrected alphabtically, and thus fixed

Bill, yes it's true, that there are many combinations that could be present on a disk, but I believe regardless of the combination, they still have to be listed alphabetically.

Try this experiment: Unzip a group of songs to a disk as sent by Bill. Go to another group of songs with the same numberical name, unzip, but rename the songs so that the number dosen't conflict with the songs already on a disk. When I do this, the file order is different after renaming. I can load the renamed songs on the disk,and they all show up numerically, but the 7000 will not read it because in my opinion, windows changed the correct order that the files should be in during the renaming process.

Thanks
Larry Hawk

to futher explain:

Before renaming song 01 to 08:
Song 01 is listed in this order
1- .CMP
2- .LSW
3- .MSP
4- .SEQ
5- .SQF
6- .TM

After renaming song 01 to 08
song 08 is listed in this order
1- .LSW
2- .SEQ
3- .SQF
4- .TM
5- .MSP
6- .CMP

When song 08 is added to a disk that has songs on it that were not renamed, only the renamed songs will not load. In my opinion, this is because, the order of the files is changed during the rename, and the 7000 can not decipher the difference.

Try this then Larry. Do all the renaming on the 7000. Save 01 as 08 on the 7000 on a fresh disk. Then add the 08 files to the other disk you really want it on. A guess would be that if the 7000 remanes it instead, the 7000 will do it right.
maybe renaming in windows is the only problem. Maybe adding to disks after 1st renaming on the 7000 will solve it. You can load them individually on the 7000 and save them on a second disk after. one song at a time. but it will most like be okay that way. I hope. Let me know.
Tony



[This message has been edited by Sparky (edited 06-13-2003).]

I can't go with the alphabetic theory - the files are only shown on your PC in alphabetical order, because that is the way that you have Windows Explorer configured. Try viewing the files in explorer and then at the top of the explorer window, you can see 4 pads labelled Name, Size, Type, Modified. If you left click on the 'Name' pad, you will see that the order of the file names changes from normal alphabetic to reverse alphabetic. Click on the 'Size' pad and again you will see the order change - click on Size again and the previous order will reverse. Click on 'Type' and you will then see all the file extensions in alphabetical order instead of the filename numbers. So the thing which decides the displayed order is Explorer. If you change the order of the display and then save the files to floppy disc, they will still play perfectly well on the KN7000

------------------
Willum

I have zipped and unzipped hundreds of music files and renumbered many of them to fit my requirements, and I can state with certainty that it does not matter if you start with 01 or 12, since the disk drive on the keyboard will only read 20 files at a time. If you have more than one file occupying one slot, when you delete the first 01, the second 01 file will magically appear. Sometimes when you zip or unzip a file with 20 songs in it, the computer will read a file from song 20 first, then continue on with all the others, in proper order. By hitting F5 on your computer's keyboard, you'll initiate an alphabetical sort and put the files back into their proper order. If you somehow fail to notice the extra file when you begin to renumber, you may end up out of sequence and the keyboard might have trouble reading the files. Just do it all over again to see if you may have introduced a little human error into the equation. BTW...when you zip up a music file, start by highlighting the last file first, then up to the first file. It will zip up in the proper order that way and unzip in the same order.

Larry,
I have renamed and renumbered hundreds of files using the keyboard (very slow), using windows Explorer or using a renaming/renumbering program such as CKRename. I have had absolutely no problems with any of the methods.
Just remember, you can not have more than one file starting with the same number. If you do, only the first file will be read. The second one will be invisible to the KN7000.
You said:
"After doing this, number 15 will show up on the 7000, but may not load, sometimes a message no file on 15 appears on the 7000 screen. However if I go into Disk Tools and hit the Delete button for 15, magically 15 is fixed and loads and plays."

Is it possible that there already was a file on 15, but without a name? If so, this would explain the whole thing. When you went to Disk Tools and deleted 15, you removed the un-named file which allowed the KN7000 to read the desired file.

I would strongly recomend using the program CKRename. It was recommended by Technics Player some time ago, is free, and works like a charm.
Go to: http://www.musicsucks.com/CKSoft/CKRename/

I think that you will like it.
Regards
Walt

Walt,
I did download CKRename, I thank you for that link and I do think it may help. When you rename with CKRename do you use the replace function, or do you rename another way. CKRename gives quite a few options on renaming.

I'll try to expain my problem with changing names in Windows.

If I have 2 songs both numbered 01 and try to change one of the them to 15. 15 will show on the disk screen on the 7000, but will not load.(the file you tried to load is empty) If I go into Disk Tools and hit the DEL button for 15, it repairs 15 so that it now loads and plays.

So what I need to know is, what exactly is the 7000 repairing on song 15 so that it loads and plays ? Obviously something is wrong in the renaming process, the 7000 knows that, because the 7000 corrects it, trouble is..I would like to know too.

Hope my problem is clear.
Thanks all for your help
Larry Hawk



[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 06-14-2003).]

HI ALL,
I use a program developed by one of our forum members that takes up to 20 files, renumbers them and will then send them from your hard drive to the A floppy drive. It is easy to use and seems to be fool proof. The zip file was about 2 mgs to download it. The file was developed by kerstwim@wish.net
for our exclusive use. I am sure that many of you already have it. I think the rest of you new people might want to get it.
The name of the file is Technics Copy Utility.
Wim is no longer on my email list but may still be alive and well at the above address. Suggest you ask him if the file is still available and if you can have a copy of it. He had a kn6000 at last report.
WIM WHERE ARE YOU?
Thanks again to Wim for this utility. I use it for all files for the Technics.
Best to all
Bebop

Bebop I believe I found the site your refering to, hope so anyway:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wimkersten/

I'm going to give it a try, and thanks for the tip.

Larry Hawk

Larry,
RE: CKRename:
Let's suppose that you have two or three files starting with 01. High-light only the relevant files that you want to renumber. In the lower right hand corner, under "String Substitution", type 01 after "Replace:" and type XX after "With:" (where XX is the desired number to change to, usually the next available empty file spot on the disk). Then hi-light the next group to change, ETC.
This will change only the leading file numbers and leave the rest of the file name alone.
Have Fun,
Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Meyer (edited 06-14-2003).]

Thanks Walt, CKRename seems to do the job, thanks for that tip and as usual, thanks to all for their help. This place is amazing.

Larry Hawk

[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 06-15-2003).]

As usual I'm more than a little confused,after reading all the above.
I've just replaced a duff FDD and now have some 20 odd song files from Bebop to download. After downloading one zip file to floppy when I try to download the next file using the same floppy all the previously downloaded songs are overwritten. How do I overcome this? Normally I only need to download one or two zip files onto separate floppies and I then use the KN7 to transfer songs from the 2nd etc floppy to the first floppy until I build up to the max of 20 songs on each floppy, but using this method with all those glorious songs to separate floppies and repeating the excercise on the KN is a bit tedious. Help

Ogre :confused

Ogre,
Try unzipping all 20 to a folder somewhere, then open the folder and start renaming either using CKRename or Windows Explorer. If using Windows highlight the files you want to rename, by holdng the Ctrl key and Left mouse click (highlight) the files to rename. Click File > Rename... or Right Click Mouse > Rename.
Change the number (example 01 to 12)of one of the highlighted files. All highlighted files will be Renamed or Renumbered at once to 12 . When finished renaming all 20 Click File > Select All > Sent To > Floppy

If by chance you load the disk on your 7000 and try to play song 12 and you get the message "the file you tried to load is empty" then you have to go to "Disk Tools" find the song that will not load, and click "DEL" (ONCE !) A warning "Are yor sure ?" > YES > The 7000 will then read the so called empty files and it will load and play...Hitting the DEL button once repairs a file if repairable . Hitting the DEL button a second time and it's bye-bye song.

I'm not sure why your files are "over writing" each other on a floppy. You should be able to download up to twenty 01's and then rename, in a folder, or a floppy. Maybe someone else has an answer for that.

Anyway, it seems like this renaming of Technic files is a bit of a problem for some, while others have no worries. Such is life.

Larry Hawk

[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 06-16-2003).]

Thanks Larry. Life is never simple ......
I've come across another problem (trust me).After downloading some of the forum songs when I load them into the KN7. altho the floppy is shown as x% full, an error message says the file you tried to load is empty. I've tried all the load and play modes but answer is always the same??

Ogre

Ogre
I have exactly the same problem with my KN7000 and whatever I try to do the result is the same. I have followed all the instructions in Alex's book but still both floppy and sd card come up with the same response. "The file you try to load is empty" I Have now given up trying. I hope you have better luck

Trevor

This Works For Me

1. Press Disk Tools

2. Highlight the file that will not load

3. Press DEL once

4. Answer YES to Are You Sure ?

5. After a few seconds, Exit out of Disk Tools

5. Press Disk Load Button

6. Load the File

If repaired the file will load and play

If pressing DEL a second time the file will be deleted from the disk, so DEL at your own risk.

Let us know if this method works for you.

Regards,
Larry Hawk

Thanks Larry,
I'll give it a go and let you know how it works out - probably tomorrow.,

Peter

Ogre, I assume that you are unzipping the file before writing it to the floppy. I have never had a download fail after sending to a folder on my HD, unzipping it and copying it to a floppy. Works every time. On the other hand, downloading a zip file directly to a floppy will give you a file your keyboard can't possibly read.

Sorry Bud, I disagree .If you mean that the 7000 can not read a zipped file, of course that is true. However, I see no need in unzipping to your hard drive first. I unzip files directly to a floppy most of the time, and with success all the time.



[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 06-18-2003).]

Hi to all,
I downloaded both the Technics copy utility and the CKRename utility. From my perspective the Technics Copy Utility from http://home.wanadoo.nl/wimkersten/ seems to be the better option for the task we are talking about here, for the simple reason that you can send to floppy disk from the conversion page, seamlessly, immediatly have renaming. I didn't seem to be able to do this from the CKR. ( doesnt mean it's impossible though ) As regards ease of use, by reading the few instructions with the prog. and also BEBOPS reply to Walt,on another thread, I managed to sort it out!!!
(This pretty well puts it in the "foolproof" category, belive me folks )
Hope this doesn't confuse thing even more.
All the best
Eddie

Hey ogre et. al.! Maybe this brief note will be redundant, but I'll put on my "two cents" worth anyway because I had a similar problem when I first downloaded songs in ZIP format and then tried to open them in my 7000. Always got the message that, after loading (I thought), "the file was empty"! Someone on this Forum helped me out (as always!!) So, I learned that the steps are--(assuming you are using Windows on your PC):

1) Click on the ZIP icon in your message.
2) Your unzip program (I use WINZIP) should automatically open. Follow the instructions for unzipping.
3) After the file is unzipped, a window with icons for all the unzipped items appears, (there should be 6-8 individual files listed).
4) Click on the EDIT button at the top and, in the drop down window, click "Select All". (The unzipped file icons should darken.)
5) COPY the files to your floppy disk (or MOVE them--I prefer to copy because then I still have the original files saved).
6) Close your ZIP program (or minimize it if you have other files to unzip) and then check your floppy (click "START", then "RUN" and insert "A://" ( or whatever letter your floppy disk drive is)) to see if all has indeed been copied. (If so, you should get a window that looks just like the original unzipped window that you copied.)
7)Once you have verified the unzipped files are opened on you floppy, you should be able to take the floppy to your 7000 and load it and it should playable.

I think what you were doing is trying to load a FOLDER, rather than the opened unzipped individual files and, of course, the 7000 couldn't read it. So, the message, after loading, was that the file was empty.

I hope this makes sense to you. I never have had any problem loading the unzipped songs since learning the techniques I described above and I hope this is will help you, too, now!

Good luck!

Ted

Hi Everybody,
I finally got the Technics Copy program working (there was nothing wrong with the program, just my stupidity!). Eddie, you are right, for this task it is great as it allows you to add files from any folder or artist, regardless of file number, and send them anywhere you want, all correctly renumbered by the program.
Nothing could be easier.
I'll keep the CKRename program handy, though, for general file renaming.
My thanks to Wim Kersten and Pat Hall for two very useful programs.
Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Meyer (edited 06-18-2003).]

Oh! Ted...................How can I thank you.........After months of trying and savaging two P.Cs (throwing through nearby windows) the method you described worked perfectly ( at the second attempt). I saw your message when I got home from a gig last night and tried it this morning. I am now VERY happy bunny and am eternally in your debt. Many many thanks.

Trevor

My glazier will now probably go bankrupt

I still don't know why you have to unzip to a folder, and then copy to a disk. That is one uneccessary step

On my desktop I click on the zipped folder that contains the songs, The extraction wizard appears, and gives me the option to extract to a directory. I click browse and choose "A" and the files are unzipped directly to a floppy. This eliminates the "copy" or move "step" I never had a problem extracting zipped files directly to a floppy. I can even change the file name ( number)on a floppy using the method described above

And...

If you want to save these files on your computer, it is better to save the zipped format, as it is compressed and takes up less room on your hard drive. No need to save unzipped files.

Less work and more space...I'm for that
Larry Hawk

Hi people
I just remembered something from a few years, or so,back in the days when the Technplus Webclub site had free style disk downloads (Yea, I know, prehistory )I was using Winzip with the Wizard option on the settings. I had this terrible problem where the downloads would apparently come through all right, the files would show up on the computer, but the keyboard (KN3000) would not be able to see them.Lots of emails between self & Nick Thomas at Technote (very helpful bloke ) but all his suggestions came to nought. I finaly stumbled accross an article somewhere accidentally, which mentioned Winzip Classic. Jeez what's that, I thought, looked more closely at the Winzip toobar, found the Classic option, and BINGO!!!!!. No more problems. Its probably got nothing to do with any probs on this thread, but if you're haveing trouble unziping and your using the Wizard, it's worth a try.
regards to all
Eddie


[This message has been edited by Sandgroper (edited 06-19-2003).]

Larry....the problem some of us seem to have is that when we download files as you explain our keyboards just do not recognise them and insist that the files are empty although the same keyboard recognises that the floppy is x% full, having previously been shown as empty before the files were put onto the disc. From what I have read on this and other threads there seem to various courses of action which for some but not for others. Wouldn't life be boring if everything was simple
Regards......Trevor

Think I'd rather be bored than frustrated - maybe there would be more hair on my head..
I tried Larry's suggestion but it didn't work for me. I didn't even get the red ATTENTION screen with the Are you sure question, so I tried a known and trusy floppy and this proved the Kn is in working order.
This question about Winzip - I use AOL and this server provides an automatic zip/unzip function so the file should have been unzipped.
Oh the wonders of modern technology

Ogre

Eddie's right, the easiest way is to use the 'Classic' option on Winzip and just Unzip directly to A:\ and save your Zipped version to your Archive folder, wherever it may be.

------------------
Willum

Larry, of course you can unzip to drive a:. I asked if Ogre downloaded a zip file to a: drive without unzipping it first. I download to my HD first because of the number of zips I get, and it may be months before I get a chance to look at the file. I too, had a problem with WinZip's wizard and changed back to the classic form with no problems since. Usually, when someone has a problem with zipped files, it's just that they are unfamiliar with Winzip, and when they learn the technique, no more problems.

Sorry Bud, I misunderstood your post.
I believe part of the problem with all of this saving and renaming is everybody has their own system that works for them and not everybody is working with the same software or operating system
I have found Windows XP, which I have had now for 1 1/2 years, really took the guess work out of many applications and
the Extraction Wizard being a good example.
I have never had a problem with Windows XP Extraction Wizard. Maybe other members have a problem, because they have a different type of system, which requires a different type of action.
We're all trying to help each other, but it's hard to tell you how to fix a 98 Chevy, with a 2001 Ford manual. But we can try and that's what makes this a great forum.

SeeYa
Larry Hawk

ogre,
Can you send me the files(s) that will not load in your 7000? Do you remember who sequenced them? Maybe some other members would also take a look at them. I'm curious as to why they don't work for you.

Thanks
Larry

Hi Larry and everyone,

You might have guessed by now that I'm pc technically illiterate but despite being such a dimwit I seem to have solved my particular problem altho I can see from above comments that there are better ways of doing it. I am on aol and this automatically zips/unzips attachments. Well so I thought. I transferred the song "files" which the aol system unzipped ( they seem to use a system called dynazip)onto floppy and this didn't work on the keyboard. So I put the floppy back in the pc, and this time, using winzip, unzipped the "file" and this produced a number of other "files" which I then put on another floppy which played successfully in the Kn7. Perhaps if I'd learnt the difference between a file and a folder beforehand........... anyway like trevorjohn I'm now one very happy bunny and thanks to all you kind folk for coming to the rescue, and for the music donated. There are some very good musicians among you all.

Ogre

It might be worth a try to download a file that dont seem to be recognized by the kn?? using another browser other than internet explorer. Thinking that in the saving process windows or Iexplorer is saving it in a bad way? messing it up maybe? there are many free browsers. Another thought that comes to mind which most people can't utilize is what would be the alternative result if any using another operating system besides windows. Like Lenux I think its called. I know its not one that will surely get tried but maybe someone has something besides windows???????
Tony

Someday, real soon, Floppy Disks will join 8 Track Tapes, BetaMax, Cassettes, Black & White TV's, Commadore Computers, Phonographs, Rotary Phones, (Did I forget any?) somewhere in Electronic Heaven.

7000 Owners already know about the SD Card.
Imagine those that have trouble with 20 songs on a Floppy; how about 1,000 songs on an SD Card. Not as bad as it sounds, or is it? Sooner or later in the next few years we'll all find out.

Larry

Tony,
Think I'll leave it to others who know what they're doing!

Peter

Strange. Just posted the following but it doesn't appear to have taken, Here goes again.

Tony,

Think I'll leave it to others who know what they're doing!

Peter