This organ looks like the cockpit of the Starship Snterprise!!

One talented player for sure!
Really cool...Oh by the way. an arranger with the lower kbd and the MIDI pedals can do the same OR better...for a whole lot less $$$$ That's probably $40k or so.....notice not much style's needed....I also thought the sound quality was outstanding, and it should be for a high end Lowrey console organ.

Really enjoyed it and I will listen/watch it a few more times,
Thanks

The downside is that Lowrey no longer exist, however where they completely blow away any arranger with the number of pre-sets they come with, (A lot of Lowrey owners have never used anything other than pre-sets) and continue to add, also while you can add pedals etc. to an arranger, (Many do just to get rid of the limited flexibility of an arranger) the OS was not designed for organ play and you have to apply work-arounds to get the best out of it. (If you look at kits designed to turn an arranger into an organ (Such as the TRX system etc.) they come with a USB stick with work-arounds done for you)
Where they overpriced? Absolutely, although hand building a luxury wood cabinet is horrendously more expensive then the pressings used to make an arranger, (Plastic or metal) plus the limited sales and size means they also cannot be built on an automated assembly line, thus pushing the prices up even further. (The big model in the video was around $50,000 when new)

Bill

Lee, you are right about the price, but no arranger ever came close to a quality organ – it is a different animal.
It was the organ that gave birth to the arranger. And the OS is beyond that of an arranger.

I owned a Wersi Delta 500, and a Wersi entry level model that allowed me to take the top off the stand and use as an arranger keyboard. I used it on to play jobs for a while, but it was far too heavy.

John C.

This is a brand i never understood..

Somehow they never picked up the innovation of brand like Wersi and Bohm

Lowrey was the complete opposite of Wersi & Bohm being safe and easy to play, this is why they sold so well to beginners and those that were more tech averse, they are the organ equivalent of the arranger keyboard (Could also be argued that it was vice versa) where you can just press a button and everything is done for you, however Lowrey did allow limited control (Not as much as on arrangers) for those that wanted that little bit extra. (These players were very low in number though)
It was a lucrative market that served them well for decades, however all good things come to an end and they just didn’t adapt to the changing world. (Arranger keyboards are suffering the same as the old home organs in that they are just recycling, hence by the end of the decade they will probably just be a niche market like home organs are today)
Bill

I don't know, I have heard Lowrey's and Roland organs in concert and used to go to a store that had them...tried them out...I think the sounds in a Genos are better. Oh no here comes the attack dogs,,,Ha, Ha....

When I get my SX-900 organ together I hope to make some real cool music....may add pedals, as I used to play them a lot (I had Thomas, and Yamaha high end organs in 70's and 80's)

.

About $8,000 shipped to USA...not 40k +
But Marco doesn't come with it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2I6CIXv-XM

Listen to it all the way...
pretty darn good..
AND I really think a arranger with lower and pedals can do exactly the same. (yes the setup will take some work)

I worked for them for years along with your cousin Dennis.
Also, had my own full line music store in Wisconsin until the recession of 1982, I think it was, when most piano/organ stores had to close in that area.

Scott yes I remember you telling me that you worked there
Small world..

I used to love to go into the organ stores, mess around with new models, hear the demos by the great players at the store...Thomas, and Yamaha were the ones I liked back then.
Oh I did have a Conn Prelude as my first organ, Ha, Ha...

I used to love going into organ stores too. I was just a kid in the '70s and early '80s. Usually the sales help would lose patience after a while and shoo me out. But I'm pretty sure the fascination inspired by those organs is why I'm an arranger enthusiast today!

Todays home organs are a huge thing, both Wersi and Bohm have technollogy beyound what todays top arrangers offer..
Sadly the content and the price is holding them back..
They are also missing some features i love on my Genos..

I worked for Fletcher's in Florida as a demo/ concert artist Ifrom 94 to 2004 . That large organ that she is playing (LX model celebration or above) ,there is one in Columbus Ohio that is in new shape for 300.00 dollars. If I had room I would get it and also a b3 I've had my eye on. It was a profitable era. But that generation is gone and OUR organs are the genos,pa,psr, . Unless you're a tony Monaco ,jimmy smith , type player there's not much call for the organ. Although I love to hear a good jazz organ trio.

Bachus, so you weren't impressed by Marco's playing and the Yamaha D-Deck?
I sure am...Still, like the organs you mentioned not available in US but could get one through Taros trading who will import you one from Japan.

D-Deck is actually getting old, but a Genos with lower and pedals would do as well or better!

This post inspired my other post about using pedals to control the bassline.

Bachus is right, these Yamaha Japan organs have a different feature set with some important features missing. I downloaded manuals for the D-Deck and the Electone EL-C. As best as I could tell, neither one has the "AI Fingered" chord recognition mode that appeared on these shores with the first Tyros.

Recall that the intent of AI Fingered was to give a player more control over the Bass (with simplified fingering and within a compact split of C1 to G2.) Perhaps Yamaha assumes that with two manuals and bass pedals, players would have no need of that mode.

Interestingly... if I plug a pedalboard into my Tyros and configure the MIDI properly, it works just like an old school Electone's Auto Bass Chord. Pressing a pedal will usurp control of the arranger bass. However, the bass reverts to the root of a played chord when no pedal is pressed. A tidy implementation!

Ted, Yes, with the organs from Japan they expect the lower and pedals to do the job needed. WOW if you watch some of the performances on the D-Deck and ELS-01C unbelievable talent and great organs....plenty of capability compared to tens of thousands for the other ones...I got a quote a while back for $7,500 for D-Deck...not much more than a Genos...
BUT a Genos with lower and pedals I think would be better.

I have the SX-900 now (Genos later) and I am going to do it.
Lee

Don't want to start a riot but what can these monster $$$$ machines do that an
Arranger / second keyboard / bass pedals can't do. Thats a lot of money for wood.

Uncle Dave will sell you a nice stand cover up and lights if you want it to look like one piece.

Bill,
Really nothing...maybe registrations that take advantage of the whole thing...BUT we can definitely do the same with a little work.

This has been my point...we can use most any arranger to play like the organs of today (not many left) for lots less $$$ (unless you want the cabinet, not me).
Just add lower and pedals, if you gig out, just take the arranger.

It's not just a case of lower keys and pedals.
I played organs in Pubs and Clubs for years and I have yet to hear an organ on ANY arranger which sounds as convincing as those I used to play and they were not all top of range organs.
Fitting a Lester K or similar Stereo Rotary Box does a lot to improve them but, without one, even my Genos falls far short of a convincing organ.
D-Deck sounds ok and I might have considered a D-Deck if they were sold here but would need to audition one first.

It's not just a case of lower keys and pedals.
I played organs in Pubs and Clubs for years and I have yet to hear an organ on ANY arranger which sounds as convincing as those I used to play and they were not all top of range organs.
Fitting a Lester K or similar Stereo Rotary Box does a lot to improve them but, without one, even my Genos falls far short of a convincing organ.
D-Deck sounds ok and I might have considered a D-Deck if they were sold here but would need to audition one first.

An arranger has at best 2 layers/splits for the left hand and usually only one (If any) for adding bass pedals, organs have multiple layers/split points all independent of each other, plus a number of organ manufactures allow you add even more.
An arranger requires you to play the chords in a way that it understands, with an organ you can play any way you want, which is way more flexible.
You can add manuals and pedals to an arranger (The TRX system for example) however it requires some serious work arounds, and still falls well short of the organ flexibility.
An arranger has less real estate to add real time controls compared to an organ.
There are more differences which is why they are 2 separate instruments. (Even though the arranger is an offshoot of the organ)
Anybody that says there is one instrument that can do everything, I am afraid does not live in the real world.

Bill

If its just organ you want there's a bunch of "clones" out there that sound really good. I used to play a B3 for years and would be happy with one of them. BTW my Roland BK9 has the VK8 organ clone built in and set up right it's prety good. A tradeoff but look at all the othere features your getting.

I don't know what real time controls you would be missing that an Arranger doesn't provide. I can change sounds, tempo if using backing, individual part volumes, effects, transpose, etc.
If I'm using styles I can play LH chords any way I want and it reads them perfectly. And its very easy to add an extra manuel AND pedals to an Arranger with a simple Midi Merger.
Gee, its amazing the stuff you learn living in the modern world.

I played many kinds of organs in years past starting with a little Gulbranson spinet. As I progressed,I moved to B3 and 32 pedal pipie organ in church. I grew tired of being limited when arrangers came out,and mostly stayed with them except for being church minister of music at several churches.

The point is,whether it is the unique organ voicing,or what,but nothing beats an organ to sound like an organ,just like rthe Leslie in a tonewheel. Sometimes,when I hear a Wersi,or other Euro organ,I think there is a lot of music I would like to use them for.

I think it is mainly true that no keyboard does everything,and although many come close to an organ,it is not the same.

Curious , why do you think that is ? Its all digital circutry except for the Hammond Tonewheels. Leslie movig air, yes nothing like it. Possibly the sound systems these Wersi's are using. Most Arranger players use nothing close to those. A Bose Compact isn't going to come close to those big (unmovable) systems. Just my thought.

Beats me,Bill. Over the years I have heard "organ voicing",but that doesn't help much.

Organs focus on layering, arrangers focus on solo instruments, having a fantastic violin & trumpet (For example) sounds c**p when layered, however when voiced correctly (As they are in organs) you get a fantastic sound when layered.
As to automatics, as I have said many times, arranger auto systems are a complete waste of space when it comes to organ play. (This is why most organists have them turned off or simplify them before playing, something you do not have to do if you use styles designed for the organ)

Bill

An arranger only requires that if you intend to control styles or use the "Auto Bass Chord" faculty. The D-Deck is kind of a hybrid with fewer chord recognition modes than a Tyros/Genos. But a true organ doesn't even have styles or Auto Bass Chord. If you start with a BK-9: turn the melodic auto-accompaniment OFF, split the keyboard, and add bass pedals, now you can play chords any way you want, just like on an organ. Play it through a Leslie cabinet, and with your back turned I bet you couldn't tell!

Yep ! +1

Of course a real Leslie is best for Tibias...BUT I don't use Tibias much. When I played organ (lots of them) I loved that great Tibia sound only comes from moving air...BUT all the rest of the sounds...were not that good...Genos, or other TOTL arranger beats them hands down, especially for the $$. I went to a Lowrey dealer once a few years ago, they had a top demo player from corporate....I was not impressed at all with the sound in general (some were OK). Over $42,000 no thanks.


Nope a arranger with lower and pedals is not the same as an organ, but it is pretty darn cool and much better than just arranger alone, especially if you are doing orchestral performances and no singing.

Just watch what a guy like Marco Cerbella does with a $7,500 D-Deck...what does he do that you can not do with an arranger, lower and pedals all setup correctly for a song?


So, what can you do on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAAbcxeBLls

That you can't do on a dual TRX type setup with and TOTL arranger?
I bet that baby is over $40k....(stopped production in 2019)
Nope not the same, BUT pretty darn nice setup.

But, this has got to be the ultimate one can do on a keyboard instrument:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCED5cVnxxY

That was quite impressive. I actually enjoyed an organ that wasn't a 'B3' . Just curious though, how does he trigger the registration changes? However he does it, the performance was absolutely stellar, especially the pedal work. The voices were very authentic (IMO) but as Paul always says, it's not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist (in this case, that's not totally true , that's one heck of a keyboard. I'd like to see a jury rigged arranger-based rig do that.

chas

Well, he uses one of 2 side switches on the RH expression pedal. The other is for lots of good stuff, like we do on arranger. Actually you can do exactly as he does with arranger as we can control the regs with a footswitch too. The LH expression pedal is for Wah, glide, slide, pitch bend etc.

You can buy one of those for $5k - $10k depending on the model + shipping to USA (door to door), no US warranty though.

Like Bachus said, there are differences in that organ and making one out of Genos or other arragner, lower kbd and pedals. I think however you can get a LOT of it using a arranger setup.

Yep Marco is very talented, I have been following him for a long time, OH he does not come with the organ from Japan!
Darn!

That Yamaha is the most impressive organ I've ever heard. The Lowrey, not so much. 5K to 10K Sounds a bit more resonable but you still need to put about 2K - 4K in a sound system for it.

Comes with a sound system.
https://www.tarotrade.com/component/virt...tail?Itemid=527

The more expensive one (ELS-02C) comes with more of a cabinet and more powerful sound system (10K) and a lot more features/layers for sound etc.

An arranger (Even a TRX system) cannot get anywhere close to the Lowrey Organ, why, because they are designed for 2 different markets, the Lowrey looks nice as a piece of furniture in the lounge (The TRX system and others look c**p as if it’s come from Star Trek) plus the Lowrey player wants one box (With a top notch amp/speaker system built in) with all the easy play features (Top models have about 15,000 pre-sets built in) so that they do not need to touch the rest of the organ, but still look impressive, the TRX type system has nothing on this. (Different horses for different courses)

Bill

I watched several of Marco's videos..
It appears to me that he often uses the D-deck (sequencer?) to control the patch changes (instruments), and expression changes.. It also triggers lead ins (percussion sounds mostly). I noticed voicings are also sequenced..

He seems to use a chart of changes that give him direction, but mostly the keyboard screen directs him along with the lead ins that are sequenced.

None of this will work unless you are player capable to perform like Marco.

The D-Deck and ELS-01 or 2C have a feature to actually automatically change regs if programmed to do so(by measure and beat). So you can use the right foot switch or the auto function. We can use a foot sw. on an arranger the same way.

Bachus I have never heard any Lowrey sound as good as the Yamaha's. The Roland's do sound great as well...

Marco is outstanding, and the D-Deck he is playing is only $7,200 including shipping.....Your right they are not the same as a Arranger TRX type setup, but that setup does afford some of us a lot of capability for the $$.
I really hate being limited on a 61 note to have a very small area for LH chords and sounds.

It would be cool to see and compare Marco playing a TRX type setup compared to the organ...Wish there were more demos of the TRX approach by great players.

Anyways.... this is an arranger forum, so I am more interest in what we can do from that approach.

Only the STAGEA ELC-02 (Package) may be had below $10k.
The instrument Marco is playing, ELS-02X, is above $20k after shipping, VAT and possible import tax (to EU I think import tax from Japan is gone). Perhaps US has lower VAT than EU, I don't know.

I would have liked to see this to. I think it's much worse functionallity but perhaps possible to work with.
I heard people before, with Tyros, using R3 for the bass pedals leaving only 3 Real time parts and there seems to have been some remarks for suitalbe vocies for bass pedaling, perhaps to some extent to lower also.
One Cumberstone is that it't not possible to get the manuals in the correct distance from each other. If casing is removed from lower it's probalby withing ok.
For Yamaha there are limited numbers of keyboards that could be used since Yamaha uses narrower key width for synth keys than the standard 165mm per octave and you really want the keys to line up of organ playing.
The choice now most often seem to be NP-32 that doesn't have a midi connecter but only USB midi.
Before M-audio keystation 61 have been used in several cases but since mk3 it has the standars key width and is therefor no longer suatible as lower for Yamaha.
These are both lower quality keybeds withouth after touch. For any quality keybed with after touch I don't know.

I have been thinking of this option myself since organ market is dead. If you go ahead reports will be very interesting.
There are also a couple of advantages as more keys especially compared to the 2x49 option.
It is also possible to sell the instrument when wanting something else wich will be very difficult with an organ.
And in case of Genos or Yamaha in general there are a sample player and you can import new sounds.
How well the keyboard styles operates in organ playing I don't know. Often I guess you would only want to use the drum track.

Cost with a Genos will be about 5.5k Euro, maybe could even be somewhat lower, (Viscount has cheap pedals for arround 1200-1300 Euro and up depending on 25 pedals or up to 32, I think they even has a set of 20 that is probably slighlty cheaper) and the cost for building a stand and amplifying.

Togge, Yep the ELS-02C is what I would get....about $12k with shipping and a guess of import duty. Taro gives 1 year warranty, but you have to find a tech or fix it yourself , he sends parts. I would be qualified to fix it, no problem. He covers up to $1,000 in parts (or if you get some tech also)

I read the entire set of manuals for Genos and ELS-02C this last weekend, compared. There is actually more capability on Genos. After all it is a newer unit.The issue of pedal sounds and lower is there, but workable.

I had a Yamaha HS8-T organ in late 80's....and it had almost the same features, BUT certainly not the same sounds. I paid $8,500 then...so I think the ELS is OK price.

I am now thinking to do the Genos arranger organ...lots of reasons but I would really like the ELS. You named some of reasons...very limited market for it after I go to the big place in the sky.

Now I am not sure what to use for lower, maybe a NP32.

For now I may actually take my SX-900 and add the lower...see how I like it. A NP32. I do have a PC in the same area so I can use the USB MIDI host setup. Also at some time I may build a cabinet at our wood shop here.

Togge, Do you know...is the NP-32 165mm octive width?
Lee

I still has the HS-8

You seem to have spent time on the same things as I have.

Yep....We can do PM's and not take up bandwidth here?
Lee

It should be the same a Genos and Yamaha synth keys with about 160mm.
Allthough it was a very long time since I was in a stor measuring octaves.
To me the keys also look pretty lined up.
https://www.facebook.com/MusiclandUkLtd/...e=3&theater

Sure

Below is a video showing how an organ just integrates everything together, with nothing standing out sound wise (Unlike an arranger) but just gelling together to give a very nice sound.

The 2nd half of the video (About 28 mins in) showcases some of the many easy play features (If you are a professional make sure you are sitting down as many of the features will horrify you) that are designed solely for the home hobby player that wants to sound great without the wait.

The organ itself has a superb amp and speaker system designed to envelope the player in a home environment when placed against the wall, (The normal place for a home organ) plus a cabinet/console that those of a certain age (The main target of the organ) will be happy to show.

Combine all this together and the target market is in nirvana, something a multi keyboard arranger just cannot achieve.

Is it overpriced, absolutely, (If you need to ask you cannot afford it) but to get nirvana people were prepared to pay for it, unfortunately for Lowrey these certain players dwindled in numbers, which is why Lowrey is no more. (Another lesson why not to ignore a changing market)

If you still don’t get it, don’t worry, just enjoy the video.

Bill

Direct YouTube link here

Skipped around thru the demo. Very impressive instruments for those who enjoy that Style of home playing with prices to match. I just wonder how big the market is for these anymore. Real Pianos have been taking a hit for years.

When I lived in Indiana, we had a Lowrey dealer a couple hours away. I bought my Yamaha HS8-t from them, as they were also Yamaha dealer. I went to a couple of their high end demos by hot shot players that worked for Lowrey...Sounded OK, not great in all cases...and the performers were REAL good....the idea was to convince a few VERY rich locals (it was a rich area) to buy those $30k + organs so they could sound like the demo guys...they did sell a few. I spend a few hours one day on one, kind of cool BUT Way, way overpriced. They sold quite a few because of the way the marketed and to whom....I went to a concert thing they had once where each of the people that bought one came and played a song....Pathetic, most didn't play at all well and most didn't even know much about all those features...But the good news is they seemed happy to have one! Should have spent the $$ on lessons. So to each his own if you got da money and want it, get it!

That was the market I have experience with, no wander they are gone now...

The sad deal is the Yamaha organs were really great and were affordable...I think marketing was not done too well in most areas of the country.

I wish they would bring back the Yamaha organs.