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#489926 - 02/22/20 12:49 AM PSR styles vs Band in a box
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6979
Woody does an incredible job showing of these 2 in a contest..
Great comments too

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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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#489927 - 02/22/20 01:40 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Bachus]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5017
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Well the PSR sounds way softer and less realistic, its more like an amateur band that doesn’t play much together so are very loose sounding.

BIAB sound like a group of tight knit musicians that really enjoy working together and become as one.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#489937 - 02/22/20 05:13 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: abacus]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6979
Originally Posted By abacus
Well the PSR sounds way softer and less realistic, its more like an amateur band that doesn’t play much together so are very loose sounding.

BIAB sound like a group of tight knit musicians that really enjoy working together and become as one.

Bill


I do agree with you...
Wouldn’t it be great if you could run band in a box, and/or a DAW on a Wersi OAX?
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#489943 - 02/22/20 05:51 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Bachus]
saxxman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 1275
Loc: Niceville, FL USA
Great find Bachus! I own them both and am glad I do. I have been a BIAB addict since they started the product long ago. PG Music has some phenomenal programmers and of course they bring in some great "Guest artists" to create those lovely RealTracks. I sent them a note and asked them to please bring in Beegie Adair for some comping.... ha ha… never know. Each year when I upgrade, I give a silent salute to the team that keeps this train chuggin' down the tracks! Love BIAB (and SX900).
_________________________
-------------------------------------
Randy

PA4X, SX900 (Baby Genos), Roland U-20, L1 Compact, Way 2 Many Saxes

"My computer beats me routinely at chess - but it's NO MATCH for me at kick boxing!"

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#489957 - 02/22/20 10:12 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: saxxman]
ekurburski Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/17
Posts: 360
Loc: Mountain Home, AR
Thanks for this Woody. I realize I really need to spend more time with BIAB. One of my big complaints has always been not being able to play BIAB in real time. I am beginning to understand I can't really play an arranger in real time without spending a great deal of time "arranging" my tune with registrations, ect.

BIAB with its Real Tracks sounds so much better than the arranger so why not use it?
_________________________
PSR 740,PSR 3000, Mirage, tx7, mp32, Pro Tools 10,11 SONAR, Reaper, BIAB 2020 and a pile of Computer Music mags w/disks
College student was working on Doctoral, Education Now just doing courses to do courses

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#489964 - 02/22/20 11:37 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Bachus]
rikkisbears Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5758
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Randy,
what are you using for the midi sounds, a soft synth or one of your keyboards.

Have had no luck using sx900, no matter what setting I try my midi drums default to piano sound, or violin. Tried XG setting.

Only mode I actually get drums is if I set I set biab to GS, and then I can’t access the rest of the sx900 sounds.

So hoping one of my settings might be incorrect.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2020
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#489970 - 02/22/20 02:26 PM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: rikkisbears]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5017
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
Hi Randy,
what are you using for the midi sounds, a soft synth or one of your keyboards.

Have had no luck using sx900, no matter what setting I try my midi drums default to piano sound, or violin. Tried XG setting.

Only mode I actually get drums is if I set I set biab to GS, and then I can’t access the rest of the sx900 sounds.

So hoping one of my settings might be incorrect.


As far as I am aware Yamaha still follow their own XG mapping system, (The first 128 voices follow the GM standard) also a lot of Yamaha’s (Not sure about the latest) use channel 16 for drums rather than the normal channel 10.
Not sure if the above will help, but may be worth looking at.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#489971 - 02/22/20 03:00 PM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Bachus]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2546
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
If it's not real time. may as well do full sequencing, then you really get PRO results...Use any virtual instrument sets you want.
Me I like real time....that's why I never got BIAB.

But I'm just an old organ player.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#489973 - 02/22/20 03:09 PM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: abacus]
rikkisbears Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5758
Loc: NSW,Australia
Originally Posted By abacus
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
Hi Randy,
what are you using for the midi sounds, a soft synth or one of your keyboards.

Have had no luck using sx900, no matter what setting I try my midi drums default to piano sound, or violin. Tried XG setting.

Only mode I actually get drums is if I set I set biab to GS, and then I can’t access the rest of the sx900 sounds.

So hoping one of my settings might be incorrect.


As far as I am aware Yamaha still follow their own XG mapping system, (The first 128 voices follow the GM standard) also a lot of Yamaha’s (Not sure about the latest) use channel 16 for drums rather than the normal channel 10.
Not sure if the above will help, but may be worth looking at.

Bill


Hi Bill,
it’s really weird what is happening, I thought I used it years ago with my psr1500, maybe I’m mistaken.

I’ll give what you suggested a try, didn’t occur to me to try a different channel.

Even pg forums suggestions didn’t help.

At least I can use it in gs mode, and the drums work, but, once biab sends out that gs message, the program changes for factory banks aren’t recognised.

I’ll let you know if it works.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2020
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#489984 - 02/22/20 11:05 PM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Bachus]
Sokratis 1974 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 718
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
This is the advantage of a full Audio Style with melodic insturments and not just Audio Drums, and the simple poor and outdated midi styles... This is my opinion...
However with BIB we can not play real time chord changes with Real Tracks/Audio Tracks...
Yamaha has a proprietary patent for full Audio Styles (with melodic instruments) however she holds it for herself...
There is a try from me in this video for a Audio Style with Audio Drums (Rex files), Audio Percussions (Rex Files), and a chanel with Audio Guitar... Its a my private patent for more realism...
I hope in the future to released all this elements from Yamaha and more companies...



Edited by Sokratis 1974 (02/22/20 11:07 PM)
_________________________
Style Producer, Sound Engineer, Sound Design.
Yamaha Genos, Ketron Audya 76, Audya 5, SD1, Korg Pa3x, microarranger, Roland Fantom G6, V-Synth XT, XV-5080, SH201, D-50, Novation KS4, Dave Smith Evolver

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#489990 - 02/23/20 01:06 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Bachus]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5042
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Sounds really good. Nice work.

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#489993 - 02/23/20 01:51 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Sokratis 1974]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5017
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By Sokratis 1974
This is the advantage of a full Audio Style with melodic insturments and not just Audio Drums, and the simple poor and outdated midi styles... This is my opinion...
However with BIB we can not play real time chord changes with Real Tracks/Audio Tracks...
Yamaha has a proprietary patent for full Audio Styles (with melodic instruments) however she holds it for herself...
There is a try from me in this video for a Audio Style with Audio Drums (Rex files), Audio Percussions (Rex Files), and a chanel with Audio Guitar... Its a my private patent for more realism...
I hope in the future to released all this elements from Yamaha and more companies...



If you want audio styles get a Ketron as they have had them for donkey’s years, they were also one of the first to add audio drums (Wersi was the other) in around 2000.
Yamaha were really late to the party (And other manufactures haven’t bothered) and were not very successful, hence they were dropped on the Genos and new PSR range. (Although you can still play them on the new boards)
As to holding back, it’s more like they want to forget about it as they fell well short of the competition.
Keep up the good work though, as it nice to see someone thinking outside the box for a change.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#489994 - 02/23/20 02:22 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Bachus]
rikkisbears Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5758
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Bill,
unfortunately still no luck.
Think I’ll just stay with the GS sounds on the sx900 or go back to my soft synths.
Thank you.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2020
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#490002 - 02/23/20 06:24 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: rikkisbears]
saxxman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 1275
Loc: Niceville, FL USA
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
Hi Randy,
what are you using for the midi sounds, a soft synth or one of your keyboards.

Have had no luck using sx900, no matter what setting I try my midi drums default to piano sound, or violin. Tried XG setting.

Only mode I actually get drums is if I set I set biab to GS, and then I can’t access the rest of the sx900 sounds.

So hoping one of my settings might be incorrect.


Hi Rikki - sorry for the delay - I have not tried using MIDI on BIAB... I just rely on the RealTracks. Love those things. I have used the VSTs on occasion, but it's much simpler for me to just select everything from the RealTracks menus.

I do play a lot of MIDI files on the SX900 and they work great. I'm wondering if the PGMusic driver or specific Patch Map could have anything to do with it? Here is a link to the PG Patch Maps for various keyboards - do not see one specifically for SX900.

BIAB Patch Maps

I do not have BIAB configured yet to run w/the SX900 but will see if I can get a MIDI file to work... In the meantime, enjoy that SX900!


Edited by saxxman (02/23/20 06:25 AM)
_________________________
-------------------------------------
Randy

PA4X, SX900 (Baby Genos), Roland U-20, L1 Compact, Way 2 Many Saxes

"My computer beats me routinely at chess - but it's NO MATCH for me at kick boxing!"

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#490007 - 02/23/20 07:19 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: abacus]
Sokratis 1974 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 718
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
Originally Posted By abacus
Originally Posted By Sokratis 1974
This is the advantage of a full Audio Style with melodic insturments and not just Audio Drums, and the simple poor and outdated midi styles... This is my opinion...
However with BIB we can not play real time chord changes with Real Tracks/Audio Tracks...
Yamaha has a proprietary patent for full Audio Styles (with melodic instruments) however she holds it for herself...
There is a try from me in this video for a Audio Style with Audio Drums (Rex files), Audio Percussions (Rex Files), and a chanel with Audio Guitar... Its a my private patent for more realism...
I hope in the future to released all this elements from Yamaha and more companies...



If you want audio styles get a Ketron as they have had them for donkey’s years, they were also one of the first to add audio drums (Wersi was the other) in around 2000.
Yamaha were really late to the party (And other manufactures haven’t bothered) and were not very successful, hence they were dropped on the Genos and new PSR range. (Although you can still play them on the new boards)
As to holding back, it’s more like they want to forget about it as they fell well short of the competition.
Keep up the good work though, as it nice to see someone thinking outside the box for a change.

Bill

Dear Abacus,
I want to thank you for your kind and motivating words.
However .. I don't know if were aware, but I worked for Ketron for two years(New Audio Styles and Beta User) as well as working with my good friend AJ on AJamsonics Projects developing some new Audio Styles ..
Even today, my favorite is the Ketron Audya, and the Ketron Audya 5, which are still in my possession and I commonly make use of them in my work.
As you correctly stated, Ketron with Audya launched Audio Styles with great success, ever since 2007 for the first time at the Frankfurt Messe…
But ... Unfortunately, Ketron, apart from Audya, has never done anything more creative with Full Audio Styles, such as User Audio Guitars or Audio Melodic Parts so that anyone who is interested and able to create can further expand this beautiful musical, creative experience.

There are also a lot of obstacles with Ketron for a creator, and this is not related to Audio Styles, but to the very poor Sampler environment which even today the only thing we have (in SD9, SD60) is up to 3 Mono Multisamples Velocity layers, and Mono Drums Samples…
Yamaha on the other hand, although it has many creative limitations, nevertheless has a great sound engine that doesn't really restrict anything to do with Velocity Layers, or whether Samples are Mono or Stereo, though werecently discovered that there is a limited number of Samples even though Ram increased (to Genos), to 3giga with Version 2.0.
But this non-limiting property led me to discover many hidden secrets. It also led me to build some of my own Audio Guitars, (even from my favorite Audya), where there are some limitations.
At some point I'll upload a full demo with the Audio Guitars I've built ...
Here's just a small demo with Audya's Audio Guitar on Genos for my personal use.



Attachments
Audya Live Guitar on Genos.mp3 (11 downloads)



Edited by Sokratis 1974 (02/23/20 07:21 AM)
_________________________
Style Producer, Sound Engineer, Sound Design.
Yamaha Genos, Ketron Audya 76, Audya 5, SD1, Korg Pa3x, microarranger, Roland Fantom G6, V-Synth XT, XV-5080, SH201, D-50, Novation KS4, Dave Smith Evolver

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#490010 - 02/23/20 07:29 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Sokratis 1974]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
Sokratis 1974 thanx for sharing your work...
I really enjoyed listening ...
well done.....
would it be possible to go back and add a Jazz Flute, or maybe an Acoustic Nylon guitar,
or Breathy Tenor Sax lead melody track over the top as I though it was just screaming for that......
anyway please keep sharing it certainly made my
morning wake up a happy one!! eek

take care


Edited by Dnj (02/23/20 07:31 AM)

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#490011 - 02/23/20 07:34 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Dnj]
Sokratis 1974 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 718
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
Originally Posted By Dnj
Sokratis 1974 thanx for sharing your work...
I really enjoyed listening ...
well done.....
would it be possible to go back and add a Jazz Flute, or maybe an Acoustic Nylon guitar,
or Breathy Tenor Sax lead melody track over the top as I though it was just screaming for that......
anyway please keep sharing it certainly made my
morning wake up a happy one!! eek

take care

You are right dear Dnj...
Maybe in a future demo!!..Its a informal demo... grin
Thank you very much!!..


Edited by Sokratis 1974 (02/23/20 07:34 AM)
_________________________
Style Producer, Sound Engineer, Sound Design.
Yamaha Genos, Ketron Audya 76, Audya 5, SD1, Korg Pa3x, microarranger, Roland Fantom G6, V-Synth XT, XV-5080, SH201, D-50, Novation KS4, Dave Smith Evolver

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#490012 - 02/23/20 07:38 AM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: Sokratis 1974]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42592
Originally Posted By Sokratis 1974
Originally Posted By Dnj
Sokratis 1974 thanx for sharing your work...
I really enjoyed listening ...
well done.....
would it be possible to go back and add a Jazz Flute, or maybe an Acoustic Nylon guitar,
or Breathy Tenor Sax lead melody track over the top as I though it was just screaming for that......
anyway please keep sharing it certainly made my
morning wake up a happy one!! eek

take care

You are right dear Dnj...
Maybe in a future demo!!..Its a informal demo... grin
Thank you very much!!..


Your very welcome ....just my opinion when listening....
shouldn't be difficult to add a lead melody tracks experiment
and have fun. keys

again Thank you for shearing your work..

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#490069 - 02/23/20 03:49 PM Re: PSR styles vs Band in a box [Re: saxxman]
rikkisbears Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5758
Loc: NSW,Australia
Originally Posted By saxxman

Hi Rikki - sorry for the delay - I have not tried using MIDI on BIAB... I just rely on the RealTracks. Love those things. I have used the VSTs on occasion, but it's much simpler for me to just select everything from the RealTracks menus.

I do play a lot of MIDI files on the SX900 and they work great. I'm wondering if the PGMusic driver or specific Patch Map could have anything to do with it? Here is a link to the PG Patch Maps for various keyboards - do not see one specifically for SX900.

BIAB Patch Maps

I do not have BIAB configured yet to run w/the SX900 but will see if I can get a MIDI file to work... In the meantime, enjoy that SX900!


Hi Randy,
for me at the moment it’s more of a case it being annoying that I couldn’t get it to work.
Actually have a patch map for the sx someone over on psr forum did one for cakewalk, and I converted it across to biab. Also tried a few of the other Yamaha ones as well. No luck.

I read somewhere that biab works best with GS , so may just stick with the GS sounds on the sx. In GS mode, drums, sounds work perfectly.

I have mine set up with soft synths also, idea behind that was , if I change keyboards, I don’t have to tweak the songs / styles again to suit a new keyboard.

Should stick to my initial plan. Haha.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

SX900, P121 Piano, Band in a Box 2020
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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