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#442166 - 12/08/17 07:20 AM Live Drums vs Audio Drums
stkeys Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/17
Posts: 46
Can anyone explain to me the difference between "Live Drums" found on the SD9 and "Audio Drums"

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#442187 - 12/08/17 12:03 PM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: stkeys]
andy6204 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/17
Posts: 12
it's like me , i don't know the difference

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#442212 - 12/08/17 10:06 PM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: stkeys]
Ketron_AJ Offline
Moderator

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3298
Loc: Middletown, DE
Both Live Audio Drums and Live Drums are played by Live drummers, but here is where/how they differ:

Live Drums (Grooves):- Initially played by a drummer, then cut/time sliced and reproduced by Midi notes/controlled by a machine/keyboard.

PROS:- More control especially with style tempo. More 'editable' than Audio Drums as individual 'parts' can be replaced or deleted from track.

CONS:- Loss of some 'authenticity' associated with the drum kit

=================================================================

Live AUDIO Drums (Audio Drums)- Initially played by a drummer as a wave file. Machine/keyboard simply streams this audio file as was recorded from a source (SSD or HD) and plays.

PROS:- The most authentic 'drummer' you'll ever have. Entire drum set and ambient surrounding the drum kits is reproduced. KETRON provided the capability to vary the tempo of the audio drums with no change to pitch giving you some flexibility as to how you can use/synchronize them with styles and Midifiles.

CONS:- Either you like it as delivered or you hate it as there is minimum you can edit with the audio file. In the AUDYA series, you are giving a DRUM EQ which you can use to say select a particular frequency and increase/decrease it's db thus you can to some extend edit say the frequency that predominantly affects the snare drum, or kick drum ... etc and thus lower or increase the 'volume' of the 'snare' or 'kick', but you cannot replace individual drum instruments or change the audio track.

To compensate for this, KETRON allows you to record and use your own Audio drums with either factory styles, your user styles or midifiles!

Live Drums (Grooves) are used in:-
* SD1/SD1 Plus
* SD5/SD3
* SD7/SD40
* SD9 Pro (Drum 2 Track)
* AUDYA series (Drum 2 Track)

Live AUDIO Drums (Wave files) are used in-
* AUDYA series (Drum 1 & 2 Tracks)
* SD9 Pro (Drum 1 Track)

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
_________________________
[KETRON - USA]
Design Engineer & Product Specialist.
www.KetronAmerica.com

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#442314 - 12/10/17 03:28 PM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: Ketron_AJ]
stkeys Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/17
Posts: 46
Thanks AJ, I find it strange then that while testing out how to Sync Cubase to the SD9 my results were as follows.

Styles that contain "Live Drums" didn't stay in Sync.
Styles with "Audio Drums" did stay in sync. ( at least some of the styles )

If the Live Drums are Midi notes/controlled by a machine/keyboard I would have thought they would stay in Sync more so than the Audio Drums.

Getting Cubase to Stay in sync with the SD40 and Audya 5 or 4 was hit and miss.... some styles worked slightly better than others.

I'm still not 100% happy with the results on any of the ketron/audya keyboards/modules when it comes to staying in sync with Cubase.

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#442342 - 12/11/17 03:29 AM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: stkeys]
nightowl Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/27/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Australia
I've the same problem using Logic Pro X, and "Audya 4, it sync OK for about halfway of the song and than style start to slowing down , it does't keep up with midi clock.

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#442373 - 12/11/17 02:33 PM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: stkeys]
Ketron_AJ Offline
Moderator

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3298
Loc: Middletown, DE
Originally Posted By stkeys
Thanks AJ, I find it strange then that while testing out how to Sync Cubase to the SD9 my results were as follows.

Styles that contain "Live Drums" didn't stay in Sync.
Styles with "Audio Drums" did stay in sync. ( at least some of the styles )

If the Live Drums are Midi notes/controlled by a machine/keyboard I would have thought they would stay in Sync more so than the Audio Drums.

Getting Cubase to Stay in sync with the SD40 and Audya 5 or 4 was hit and miss.... some styles worked slightly better than others.

I'm still not 100% happy with the results on any of the ketron/audya keyboards/modules when it comes to staying in sync with Cubase.


This is part of the reason we recommend to folks not to use KETRON product with audio styles as a slave when connected to any other midi device, unless using Midi styles. The problem is in the processor being able to handle both timing of audio elements (regardless of midi trigger or streaming) and perfect interpretation of the midi in clock.
A quick fix is to select a midi style similar to the audio and use that (minus the drums) to lay down the track you want to create in Cubase - then come back and lay down the audio drums.... less tasking of the processor :-(

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

AJ
_________________________
[KETRON - USA]
Design Engineer & Product Specialist.
www.KetronAmerica.com

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#463132 - 12/15/18 06:00 AM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7026
Back at this...

Will i be able to create live drums and audio drums my self and use them in the SD9/SD90?

I have a huge collection of audio drum loops inside logic..
That i want to use in creating my own styles...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#463134 - 12/15/18 06:27 AM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: stkeys]
IMMusic_Curt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/18
Posts: 313
Loc: New Symrna Beach, Fl.
Not really what you are asking to do but you could put the loops together as you want in Logic, bounce the track(s) to a wav file and load that into the SD90. More of "drum sequence" vs. a style that you are asking about. Just a thought and another way of creating something a little different.
_________________________
Curt
https://immusic.co
MIDI, Music and Keyboard Fun!

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#463145 - 12/15/18 07:12 AM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: IMMusic_Curt]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7026
Originally Posted By IMMusic_Curt
Not really what you are asking to do but you could put the loops together as you want in Logic, bounce the track(s) to a wav file and load that into the SD90. More of "drum sequence" vs. a style that you are asking about. Just a thought and another way of creating something a little different.


So i can’t convert those wav’s to live drums (can do this on the pa4x) nor use them as audio drums?

I hope ketron adds this with the next update and the sample option.

Its important for people that they can be creative and share this with other users.

Its not that ketron needs to discourage creativeness like Yamaha does, because they want to sell their expansion packs, as ketron does not really sell expansions..
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#463153 - 12/15/18 08:46 AM Re: Live Drums vs Audio Drums [Re: stkeys]
IMMusic_Curt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/18
Posts: 313
Loc: New Symrna Beach, Fl.
Hmm - An exciting challenge. I found this in the manual:

You can create User Audio Drums (Wave 44,100, 16-bit) using specific Audio Editor Software, or by importing User Audio Drums which were already created for the AUDYA series keyboards.
Whatever the origin of these files is, the SD9 Pro can "locate" and manage them through the DRUM part of the Modeling feature. In order to be properly recognized and utilized, these audio files must have the following name structure and assigned as such:-

That section of the manual goes on to describe how to name the files for the different parts of a style. I'm thinking you could take a loop that you like in Logic, bounce to a wav, name it as a fill, beak, arranger part "A," "B," etc. to make the SD90 happy. The only thing is that would be using the audio in the loop vs. what is in the SD90. Would that matter? In addition to Logic shipping with audio loops, it also ships with a number of MIDI loops that you could work with. I'll also mention another interesting feature in Logic if you haven't tried it. It's called "Drummer". By moving various sliders and turning knobs, you can influence how complex a pattern it will play. There are various genres to pick from when you start. Same thought, if you find something you like, bounce it to a wav and transfer over to the SD90 and work with it in the Modeling feature.

It just started to rain, and the wife is out shopping with her sister - Maybe I'll mess around a little with this. Sounds like FUN!
_________________________
Curt
https://immusic.co
MIDI, Music and Keyboard Fun!

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