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#460771 - 11/03/18 05:11 PM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Bernie9]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
One thing I’ve discovered...

Most of my friends who are piano players are used to the left hand playing accompaniment ...bass lines etc.

They struggle playing just chords with the left hand. And with arrangers, styles can only be played if one of the hands maintains some sort of chord pattern.
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#460775 - 11/03/18 05:47 PM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I agree with my learned, LA counterpart, DonM. When I was in Cozumel Cabo San Lucas, Playa Del Carmen, Cancun, and a few other locations in Mexico, there were arranger keyboard players at nearly every hotel on a nightly and daily basis. Most were duos and trios, often a drop-dead gorgeous, female vocalist who could sing in at least two languages, and sometimes a guitar player.

In the Florida Keys, I was just one of only 2 arranger keyboard players between Key Largo and Key West. There were hundreds of "Have Guitar Will Travel" guys, though, and nearly all playing to midi and MP3 backing tracks. Without the backing tracks, most couldn't get a job at Walmart. Some were really good guitar players, but most were strummers that sang and damned near every song sounded the same.

As for serious musicians knowing anything at all about an arranger keyboard, those were few and far between. I spent more than 3 decades trying to teach some highly educated musicians how to navigate a keyboard, and those that had an open mind loved what the discovered. Those that were closed minded and egotistical walked away, and went back to doing what they did 40 years ago, and for the most part, they never made enough money playing music to pay the bar tabs.

Damned glad I drink! wink

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (11/03/18 05:48 PM)
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#460784 - 11/03/18 09:12 PM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: vangelis]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By vangelis
This is my out-take on this subject, Arrangers are like automatic self pay registers in Walmart, they take jobs away from creative musicians who need to make a living and are forced to do something else in life, although they are also tools to help you make music the nightclubs that had a full band, are now downsizing to a minimum. I am very aware of this situation because I am a part of it, do I like it? NO! but I have to make some kind of living part time besides my regular job.



I would challenge any musician that thinks this way.. to sit in with my default settings and play... they better know how to play left hand bass... that is what they will have to work with..

I usually never play a style on a gig.. Always bass and piano/organ etc.. even over SMF's ( my preference).. Request usually just the arranger drums and bass/piano..

Latin tunes .. the arranger is a big plus.. no one can play all the things that are going on smile
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#460785 - 11/03/18 09:43 PM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Dnj]
btweengigs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 2204
Loc: Florida, USA
Tonight I checked out a local "Animal Club". Advertised Dinner at 6. Live entertainment at 7-10. I got there at 8:15 and was bucking a crowd coming out. The live entertainment was still on stage. One guy, a color changing stage light and a computer playing MP3s. A guitar sitting by his side. He did not sing or play the guitar in the 15 minutes I was there. Playing 80s RnR for a senior crowd. And I was one of the last to leave at 8:30.

Disclaimer: I used to play there and had trouble holding the crowd beyond 9:15. None of the other local "animal clubs" are doing much better. Where is Don Mason when we need him?

Eddie

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#460786 - 11/03/18 10:01 PM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I used to play the Elk's, the Eagles, the Moose, the VFWs and American Legions. They paid very well too. I haven't played one in a number of years now. I played the Elks two Saturdays a month for several years and it paid $350. a night. That was good back then. Now they pay about half that. There number of members is dwindling.
The Legion where we had a couple of the jams still has a small band, and my friend DickieT works it twice a month. He usually uses a sax man and guitar player. I think it pays $300 total. I'm certain I could go back there if I wanted to, but I don't.
I think I will keep the job I have as long as my health holds out. Still enjoy it!
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#460796 - 11/04/18 12:57 AM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Fran Carango]
vangelis Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 425
Loc: FLORIDA
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Originally Posted By vangelis
This is my out-take on this subject, Arrangers are like automatic self pay registers in Walmart, they take jobs away from creative musicians who need to make a living and are forced to do something else in life, although they are also tools to help you make music the nightclubs that had a full band, are now downsizing to a minimum. I am very aware of this situation because I am a part of it, do I like it? NO! but I have to make some kind of living part time besides my regular job.





I would challenge any musician that thinks this way.. to sit in with my default settings and play... they better know how to play left hand bass... that is what they will have to work with..

I usually never play a style on a gig.. Always bass and piano/organ etc.. even over SMF's ( my preference).. Request usually just the arranger drums and bass/piano..

Latin tunes .. the arranger is a big plus.. no one can play all the things that are going on smile


Well Fran, I also play left hand bass and also worked with 6 or more musicians live, but speaking on my behalf my type of music requires to have left hand free for pitchbend to be able to correctly get the quarter tones needed. I have much respect for the Western musicians and they also respect what we do so, I use mostly the arranger section since there is no funds to pay a full piece band in most situations smile
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#460798 - 11/04/18 01:11 AM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
The problem is not the current state, but its herritage..

If Korg would add something akin to Ketrons launchpad feature to their next Kronos.
It would sell like hot cakes with molten chocolate lava inside.

I think its the simplicity of having preplayed intro's and endings, that turns many pro musicians away.
Not the way how the actual chord follwing works, as many are trying to copy exactly this behaviour with their arps or Karma.

The launchpads should work for these critical aclaimed pro's as a fresh start of an entirely new thing, while us arranger players know better.
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#460803 - 11/04/18 03:16 AM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
So how does it get reversed?

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#460808 - 11/04/18 05:06 AM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Dnj
So how does it get reversed?


By adding arranger features to high end instruments
In a form not recognised as an arranger..
The way i discribed with the launcpad..

Also keep in mind, that yamaha and rolamd are adding arrnager features to all their digital piano’s by using ipad apps.. arranger is slowly making its way into more and more households.. its far from death, altough the form is changing.
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#460821 - 11/04/18 07:33 AM Re: Are Arranger Keyboards Misunderstood? [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I think it is ignorance that turns a lot of musicians away. They have no idea what modern arrangers can do; all they remember are the early Casio and Yamaha "toys".
In fact most of them that hear me just assume everything is sequenced ahead of time. Well in a way it is, but with way more flexibility.
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