Hi all,

Purchased a new S950 recently as I sorely missed some of those fantastic Yamaha styles. Spent all of two weeks preparing her for our next public performance.

We'll yesterday, I put her through our sound system for the first time. The vocals from the mic sounded terrible, no matter what I did. So I routed the mic through a mixer, using the effects to the amp & routing the original voice to the Yamaha's harmonizer. Turned down the volume on the Yamaha of the lead voice completely so that only the harmonies are mixed with everything else.

Well this was better, but Monica refused to continue as we sounded like amateurs (which we are off course).

So out comes the Audya & we are blown away by the quality of the sound using nothing but the Audya.

I cannot vouch for the Tyros range, but the Audya is most certainly a winner when it comes to sounding like the real thing & also AJ has no small influence to this.

I'll keep the S950. Maybe it'll fit in somewhere later. But we will only be performing live with the Audya, that's for sure!

Anyways, just my two cents on this.

Keep well all,

Henni

I would say you might not have the S950 & its Voc processor set up properly as it is definitely a very capable arranger KB in a live situation as I can attest to that night after night on gigs.
Stick with the Audya as its working good for you & for-filling your musical needs,....

the S950 wont be hard to sell if its not your cup of tea..

I agree with Donny - the S950 has a great vocal processor. If I were you I would do a master reset and start from scratch.

Gary

DNJ,

Maybe you professionals can set up the equipment better. With my limited abilities in this, the Audya sounds much better, realistic and the vocal and harmonizer works brilliantly as is.

Guess well stick with what we can handle for now. I have a lot of fun with the S950 through the headphones though...

Maybe weve been spoilt rotten by the Audya.

All the best

Henni

Okay Gary,

Ill try that.

Cheers,

Henni

First off NEVER do anything with headphones on....just sayin ;-)

Henni yes I would have to agree that the Audya VH is MUCH better then the S950 & Yamaha really needs to step it up in that department as with a total redesign of their MFD also......
I was just referring to the S950 Voc processing alone.
Lets face it the Audya & any Yamaha arranger today are totally different animals sound wise,....They both have their draw backs Pro & Con,...You have to weigh your needs and choose what works best for you for now.

Have Fun

Well, Henni, I'd say you just learned a good lesson.

I'd probably feel the same way going from my Tyros4 to an Audya...in my case, I just wouldn't warm up to the sound and styles of the latter.

At least you gave it a try, but maybe, as Donny and Gary pointed out, you just didn't do enough tweaking with it.

However, I have my doubts if you'll ever find anything to completely replace your old Audya so, good or bad, you're stuck with it.

Perhaps you may consider putting the money you get from selling the S950 towards another similarly set up Audya, for as you probably know, these (and all other brand) instruments eventually simply wear out and will need hardware replacements like key contact strips, buttons/panel switches and even hard disk drives.

It would be very difficult to get any kind of an instrument fixed quickly, and you would likely end up with some unpleasant down time if you didn't have a back-up.

If I was to go back to gigging as steady as I used to, I'd get another Tyros4 for backup, in spite of the usually great reliability record of the instrument....not all problems are a result of the equipment simply failing...sometimes things get bumped and dropped accidentally.

Ian

all great advice Ian !!!!!!

Hi DNJ,

When I prepare the Audya beforehand, it is with headphones. I have not as yet found the need to change anything when I route her through our sound system.

Maybe with the S950 this is different, although it makes no sense to me. I use the same headphones for both arrangers.

Cheers,

Henni

I totally agree. I always program styles and registrations using the system I'll be gigging with.

However, if headphones appear to work well for other players, all that really matters in the end, are the results.

If one uses headphones for all preparations, at least it is consistent.

Ian

Audya has the best live sounding out of the box styles... If you dont eddit much, its a sure choice, still would probably own mine, if it would have been a lot more reliable..

But then my PA3x comes very close to the audya styles.... And it comes with a whole truckload of other things that make playing arrangers much more fun... And the pa3x solo sounds blow the audya away....

But if you just use it for the styles, audya is a prime choice

Henni, Several of my most recent recordings that I've posted have been recorded directly on the S-950, and using the S-950's onboard vocal processor. With some I used my Senheisser E855 mic, while with others I used my Crown CM-311A, and to be honest, they're both fairly close in quality.

Now, I have a friend that used a Shure SM58 and it sounded muddy. He switched to the new Samson Q8 and WOW! What a difference.

I've forgotten which sound system you use, but I remember it being huge at the very least. Also, if I recall, you went through a mixer as well. All of these things will have some bearing on the overall sound quality. I don't use headphones for setting up my keyboard and sound system, and I NEVER use the headphone output jack for my sound system. The headphone output has a significantly different impedance than the standard outputs in the back of the keyboard and the standard outputs are set up specifically for an external sound system's input impedance.

The type of harmony you select will have a huge bearing on what you hear. And, the harmony's default settings are not what you should be using at all. The ration of lead to harmony should be about 70/30 and no higher. Additionally, the default effects are echo and delay, which I would not recommend, especially if you are using harmony. Try using Hall 3 Reverb with a level of about 35 at most. Makes a huge difference.

I have a relatively deep voice, and it's now a powerful voice, therefore I use the high quartet for my vocal harmony. There others that will work as well, but I've found this one to be the best so far.

I have no hands on experience with the Audya other than one time when I played one belonging to Dan01 in Baltimore. For me, I really didn't like what I heard, but that's just my opinion, and it may have something to do with the sound system he was using at the time. I can assure you, however, that Yamaha's newest vocal processor is second to none. I know this statement will bring some ranting, teeth gnashing, etc..., but it's the way I feel about the system - to me it really sounds great.

When you get around to doing that system reset, be sure to do it by going through Function/Utility/System Reset and place a checkmark in every one of the boxes on the left side of the display. If you have some special settings such as registrations that you have created, be sure to back them up on the USB drive before doing the reset.

Hope this helps,

Gary

Hi Gary,

Tx, will try as suggested.

Regards,

Henni

Hi all,

Like me, dislike me, boo me if you want, but this is my honest findings to answer my own curiosity:


I sat down with the PSR950 in all honesty last night, to determine if the sound quality really comes short to that of the Audya. I used headphones only (very good quality & the same headphones I use for the Audya) and went through a few hundred of the absolute best Yamaha styles I've collected over the years.

I played around with the EQ settings & everything else I could find to tweak the sound. Well, after nearly three hours of this, I've reached my own personal verdict: (note, I say my "own")

I really, but really like many, many of the Yamaha styles. How I long for those on the Audya... However, try as I might, the quality of what I hear fall really short from what I hear from the Audya.

And I realize something else - we had a PSR3000 before we had the Audya. We then considered it to be fantastic. Why now, with the much later & better S950 are we no longer satisfied by the sound? I realize it is only because we've been spoilt by the Audya for the last year or two. No use bringing this over to someone who've never owned an Audya. We all are used & accustomed to what we've heard over the years & I do not expect anyone to understand what I say. We gigged happily with the 3K before, so I am not biased in any way at all. I have only very good things to say about Yamaha.

I can really not vouch or speak for the Tyros range, but, even though the styles on the PSR series are fantastic, it lacks seriously in the total produced sound compared to the Audya. If it was only EQ settings, then I should have been able to make it sound like the Audya.

I'll definitely keep the S950 - no need to get rid of it & I'm still very satisfied with it. But for now, we'll use only the Audya for our live performances.

Please note: This is not a "mine is better than yours" conclusion, I own both & have no plans to get rid of anything - However, I just had to make the above out for myself as I was really & totally baffled by all of this. Plus we really, but really wanted to use some of those really fantastic Yamaha styles for some of what we perform.


Henni

A very predictable response/result Henni. When one gets used to a certain sound (and styles) that they like, it is going to be very hard to find a satisfactory replacement.

I could never see me replace my Tyros4 with an Audya or a PA3X.

If your Audya were to fail, for some unseen reason, and require repairs, would you be able to continue your gig schedule with the S950?

A professional performer who gigs without a proper back-up, is like a cabby driving his taxi without a spare tire.

Ian

Hi Ian,

Tx for the good advice. However, because we never perform for reward no real harm done if we cannot meet our obligations for whatever reason.

I've owned quite a few arrangers in my lifespan, & apart from my own stupidity with the Audya, never had anything let me down as yet.

Yes, I can see that his would be a serious issue for any professional, but that title we cannot claim for ourselves at all.

Cheers mate,

Henni

Regardless of claimed status,I see no reason why the S950 could not jump in and carry on. This is assuming it is gig ready. If my Audya went down, I could use my S910 very easily, as well as my other keyboards.

I don't say it would sound the same, but passable.

Bernie

Hi Henni, hope you're well

Can you explain what you meant when you're talking about a lack in quality? I think that in every single brand there is a certain quality in each one that you cannot fault. A distinct difference, maybe, but certainly a lack in quality I don't find in any of today's brands, or maybe even in the last 10 years actually.

Henni, first and foremost, I would not judge the sound quality using a pair of headphones, even TOTL headphones. I would use the sound-PA system that I use for the jobs. This is important for a host of reasons, the least of which if venue ambiance. Every venue, indoor and outdoor, has it's own specific ambiance, and because of this, we make adjustments to the EQs to compensate. I play several pool parties each summer, many of which demand different EQ settings because the pool is situated in locations where sound does funny things. In some locations the pool is located near a building and the sound bounces off the building walls, despite the fact I'm performing on the opposite side of the pool and well away from the building. I have another marina job where the pool is situated next to a wide expanse of water - totally different settings.

Now, I have no problem with the vocal processor at all on the PSR-S950 - for me it does an excellent job. The vocal processor of the 3000, though, was marginal at best, and the harmonies were just plain awful, which is why I used an outboard harmonizer. However, if you list to some of the vocals that Dan741 posted on the PSR-tutorial using the PSR-2000 the quality is incredible. Dan went to great pains making those recordings, using a very high-quality mic, headphones for monitoring, and a great recording system. Ancillary equipment can have an immense bearing on the final product.

Having played an Audya, just once, though, I thought there was a significant difference in the overall sound resonance - not the overall sound quality. Those Audya sounds sounded much harsher than I was used to with the PSR-3000 and S-950, they were very crisp sounding, which is one of the reasons so many players felt the drums were more realistic than Yamaha's Drums. For me, the sounds were just too crisp and brite, but for some folks, that's what they want, which is fine as long as their audiences like it equally as much.

Now, if my PSR-S950 were to die this afternoon, I would be able to go to work tomorrow using my backup PSR-3000, which has served me faithfully for more than a decade. I hope this does not happen, and I seriously doubt that it will. In all the years I've been using arranger keyboards, all brands, I've never experienced a complete failure - not once!

Good luck,

Gary

Do Ketron have mid-range keyboards in their line anymore? In fact, I am not even sure they ever made them, I've always known them to be TOTL. I think a fairer comparison would be with a least a Tyros 4 at the very minimum as the T4 does have a fuller sound than the S950 and it's most noticeable in the drums.

Hi Gary,

Your explanation hits it squarely on the head. I think the Audya sounds more crisp, clean or whatever one would call it. It's like the individual instruments each stand out on it's own.

In my opinion at least, the Yamaha sounds more "muffled". I do not know how else to describe it, so this should suffice for now. The styles on the Yamaha are AWESOME!!! No argue there. I think I've grown too accustomed to the overall sound of the Audya over the two years I've had it.

It's NOT specifically the drums on the Audya as I've come to the conclusion that many styles that I've converted and tweaked to the Audya sounds just as good as those with the default audio drums.

I'll give you the best example I can. I've downloaded some of the songs recorded by Eileen on her Tyros. I do not know how she does it, but her recordings (at least those I've listened to) sounds much more "clean" and better processed than any others I've heard from over there. There is a distinct difference. It is some processing she does to the overall sound. I do not know what she uses or how she does it.

It seems that the Audya has this built in as standard. I say again, I do not know how or what, I just know that it's there.

My next test will be to route the S950's "out" to the Audya's "in" and hear if there is any difference. I'll put a dummy plug into the earphone jack to kill the Yamaha's sound. I'm also going to hook the mic to the Audya's input and try playing the S950 on it's own. Yes, I realize I won't have harmonies, but it'll be worth the try.

Once again I say & I want to make this perfectly clear to all: I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Yamaha, this is purely my perception of what I currently hear. I have absolutely no intention to get rid of my S950. Maybe I'll still get to the bottom of this...

The modern recording companies do some wonderful tweaking to the later recordings. They create an "ambience" to it that was not there during the recording. It sounds "warm" & pleasing & "natural" to the ear. (note, I'm a novice to this - I try my best to describe what I hear only). It must be some special software they use. Well, I think the Audya does this by default - I have no other way to describe it.

Either this or they've found a way to alter how their midi voices sound and also a way to make definite distinction between them. I'm sure someone like AJ would be able to explain the technicality behind it - I can only testify to the fact that it is there.

Cheers,

Henni

Hi all,

I concur with what I've said above. I just routed the S950s "out" to the Audyas "in". Used the headphones in the Audya jack only. Muted the S950 with a dummy earphone plug. Used the same style, "Homebeat" on both arrangers.

I could not have described the results more accurately above. Anyone with both an Ajamsonic Audya and late model Yamaha can go through the same excersize for themselves & post their findings here. Would be interesting to compare their findings with mine.

Keep well all,

Henni

I came to the same conclusion a long time ago. PSRS950 is really nice and fun but the overall sound is not what I want to hear.
Free opinion for what it's worth.

This highlights this clearly. The quality of that is hard to believe being for real...

Henni

Hi all,

I so much want to make the S950 work as it is so easy to carry around. Played with the vocal/harmonizer for three hours again. I do not have enough savvy to make it work, no matter what I do.

Next we fire up the Audya. Recorded this on first try, no sweat. We are only two novices, so I have to be satisfied with this attempt.

I guess I'll give up on the Yamaha for now. I really don't want to, but I just CANNOT get it to sound as clear as this.

Cheers all,

Henni

Danny,

The Audya has dropped in price dramatically from £4200 to £2900, it was old technology when it came on the market and even older now, still it sounds good, but I think what's on the T5 will see it off, I don't think Ketron have the money to bring out a new KBA to catch up, don't think they will ever catch up.

I think it's the other companies that have not caught up with Audya!
All in the eyes of the beholder, or player.

"Just for the heck of it this morning before my gig I took another attempt to adjust the VH2 setting in the S950 of which up to this time 1 yr+ was useless to me for so many reasons.
On the suggestion of a friend I tried to follow all the settings given in this You Tube Video explained by Robbiedoes.nl ... just stop the video make changes & continue till your done then save and name file. Then assign to whatever registrations needed.
It will also work on T4, etc,..I followed ALL his recommendations exactly, ....EXCEPT I changed his Chordal selection 3Abv.Jazz.....to 3Abv.Chordal....
and his Vocal Effect Type 80sPOP Rev to R&R Delay..w/ 16 rev.
This made a BIG difference in chord/vocal tracking your voice. headphone

I might even use the VH again when I'm performing with just the keyboard on small gigs......it's no TC Helicon,..
But now tracking is possibly acceptable for light duty gigs.

check it out let us know what you think?." cool2

What's the definition of a light duty gig v/s a heavy-duty gig? To me they're all the same. No changes in anything. Today, 50 couples on the dancefloor throughout the afternoon, they had a ball, wanted to know when I was coming back, several took cards for private parties and said they would call when they got things arranged. I told them all to call me first for date availability cause I only have a few days open each month, literally.

Gary

As most of us can, I can make any modern arranger work to entertain the people. Where I'm critical is what I hear myself. I know what I want it to sound like, and I'm not really happy if I don't hear it, despite the audience response.
I'm fairly close with Korg. Closer with Audya, but at this point, it's too heavy, and the expense is not worth it to me, given the number of jobs I'm doing.

Big difference,... when I'm Pumping a younger House/Electronica Music party dance crowd for 4-5hrs at a full blown 350-400pp Wedding or Dinner Dance vs just 25-50pp at a
"Light Duty" nursing home, cocktail hr, etc, gig for a 1 hr show.
I repeat BIG DIFFERENCE!

Hi DNJ,

I downloaded that video. I even downloaded the registries with those settings. The harmony is not too bad, but I cannot for the life of me get the mic effects to sound the same as on the default Ajamsonic Audya settings.

Also, playing the S950 through the same powered speakers I use for the Audya, I cannot get it to equal the clarity of the Audya. And believe me, I REALLY want to.

So now I've given up for the moment. I'll keep the Yamaha, but focus on the Audya. It works as is for a novice like myself.

Cheers mate,

Henni

My 3 cents I'm different

The Audya, next to anything else, will have more checks (positive) than the competition...mostly in the sound department..

Light gig verses heavy duty gig....my opinion, a light gig is the job that needs a quick setup, with compromises to boot..it could be a low pay, short gig..Like I was entertaining the last couple weeks (PA900)..
The heavy duty gig, use of your favorite keyboard, not worrying about weight or size, just comfort and more enjoyable to play, justified by longer gig (4 hours)...no compromise..

Personally I use the Rock & Roll DELAY FX on the S950 I Like the fast slap back on my Mic when I'm singing thru the KB,....otherwise I run the Mic thru my Mixer w/FX, when I'm Djing, etc,.....
but honestly by the way you have been talking I would just stick with the Audya for all your needs, dig in deep make it do what you want it to do you'll be a happier player,..
and sell the S950 at least you gave it a shot it's not for everybody.
It's like owning a Ferrari then buying a Smart car!

What I was referring to Donny was your vocals. they shouldn't change whether you are performing for a relatively young crowd, or an older crowd - makes absolutely no difference, at least to me. Everyone gets the same package when it comes to my vocals - the best I can offer and nothing less. Today's crowd was not young, but they danced for the entire 2.5 hours I performed. They danced to everything I played, and about a third of the songs were high energy Latin songs.

Fran, all my jobs pay exactly the same hourly rate, no one gets cut rate and no one gets screwed over. Everyone is treated equally, which is probably why work more than anyone in my immediate area. And, I take the same rig into an assisted living facility as I take to a banquet, or Monday night's restaurant job. Why should anyone get more or less?

Now, I'm pretty happy with the quality of everything I have with this particular setup, especially the vocals, and so are my audiences. While my lung capacity continues to deteriorate, and I constantly have to place more effort on singing than anytime in the past, my audiences are telling me that my vocals sound as good or better than ever. I guess I must be doing something right.

All the best,

Gary

What I mean by Light gig..a small footprint set up, because you are setting up in crowded areas, hallway, isle etc..so the lightness and smallness would make it easier, but for me at the expense of a trade off..

Rates for these NH jobs is not always set by me..


I too have been using the same set up for all my jobs, and it is my heavey duty set up

Don,

I know you loved your Audya, I will never know why you sold it on, it does have some very nice sounds, I think you would buy another sometime Don, I have no idea what Ketron are up to to be honest but I doubt its company that can turn out another new KB out, its funny how the price is dropping, it normally means they can't shift the boxes anymore. What other manufacturers do when this happens is bring out a new one.

I'll bet they have something in the works. I think they are financially solid, but I really don't know. It is a very small company and they work on their own schedule!

Or they are doing the opposite and gong downward belly up...
just like technics, gem, mediastation, etc, etc, .. wont be the first time.

Well Technics didn't go belly up. They were a subsidiary of Panasonic, one of the largest companies in the world. I think the opposite was true, they just didn't want to worry about a very small division of their company. I think they continued to support Technics instruments for quite a period of time after they shut down production.
Mediastation was a one-man company, as far as I remember. It was a good idea but was marketed before it was even close to being ready. He had good intentions but probably was way over his head from the start.
There has been this same discussion and conjecture here for years, but the truth is, nobody knows.
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/254312/1

Belly up, closed up bottom line they are all gone!! But,
I'm happy with whats left on the market regarding arrangers.

Hi all,

I've read for a fact that they are working on a newer version of the Audya. I am totally convinced that soon they'll come out with something ground breaking & stunning once again.

No, the Audya is far from dead. Did you notice what AJ is up to? Unbelievable the quality of the stuff he creates for it...

Cheers,

Henni

Aside from the Audya having the best live sound, with Korg probably second, one has to go into it a bit to fully appreciate it's features. Some say that it falls behind in lead sounds; maybe, but when taken as a whole, with it's super effects, it beats the other 20 or so keyboards I have had. With AJ's upgrade,it just got better.

I am sure the newer batches of Audya are more bug free than some originals, and this hurt their reputation, along with meager support and marketing. I was lucky-never a problem.

OTH, I still prefer My KN7000, S910, or vArranger for more subdued dinners or NH venues.

Hi Tony,

That's quite a substantial drop in price although I don't know if I would still purchase a Ketron again after the bad luck I had with the X1 in the past (I must have been unlucky with Ketron's and GEM's as their keyboards both went wrong on me).

On the other hand, the Audya does sound incredible and at the time when I was looking to change from my PA1X it was a tough choice between the Audya or the Tyros3. I am glad I went with the T3 (and now T4) because I think for the music I play it's more suitable with it's mellow soft and polished sound. I never gig so the live sound would have probably been too overwhelming. In fact, I think the PA900 can sound both mellow and live so I guess I can make up for it that way!