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#374647 - 11/09/13 06:39 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14519
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Diki, they are not buttons - take a look at the pictorial diagrams of the system and you'll see what I'm talking about. The triggering device is a series of PC strips that is fired by the velocity of the carbon impregnated rubber as it strikes the PC board beneath the keys. It's a different ballgame. I've had several apart over the years, and spent some time repairing them for friends.

Gary cool
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#374648 - 11/09/13 07:21 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada



Originally Posted By: Diki


And Ian... If Roland had put the G70's action in some TOTL $3500+ arranger, it would already be BETTER than the T5, not equivalent..! And, according to you, it doesn't NEED a touch screen. But if it did, again it would be BETTER.



Nothing mis-quoted...read and laugh like I did..."flagship"???? Talk about hype...too funny!

http://www.roland.com/products/en/BK-9/

Probably, if you keep reading the BK-9 hype enough, you might even convince yourself that it's TOTL.

I'm certainly not comparing Roland's "flagship" BK-9 with the more powerful and better sounding TOTL Tyros models...I'm simply comparing it to the last ROLAND flagship. Duh!

Roland's last flagship, the G-70, had a large touchscreen and a fairly decent 76 note keyboard with aftertouch...now, their so-called "Flagship" (see above ad) has two less than ideal non-touch B&W (160 X 160 Pixels) screens, a lesser quality 76 note non-aftertouch keyboard, and the whole caboodle is a good indication of Roland's slide down the scale to only making MOTL (but calling them TOTL) arrangers.

Fran is far wiser than you...he is being realistic.

You aren't.

Quit while you're behind.

Ian

PS...I take Gary, Donny and Joe at their word regarding the PSR. They are respected professional musicians and entertainers, and in the business as long as, or longer, than you.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374649 - 11/09/13 07:25 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9204
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
"Flagship" means ..current best offering..
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#374654 - 11/09/13 08:06 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Fran Carango]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
"Flagship" means ..current best offering..


I agree Fran, but I feel Roland's present flagship, or best offering, if you will, isn't in the same category as the G-70, the former flagship and best offering.

I think, although they've added some great little features to the BK-9 that weren't on the G-70, they also took away the very things that put the G-70 in league of it's own, at the time.

Now Korg and Yamaha both have 76-note TOTL arrangers, and Roland has a 76-note MOTL as it's best offering.

I just think it's sad to see Roland drop the ball, and not make any TOTL for quite some time, and then return with a very good instrument, but not a great one like the G-70.

Yamaha and Korg seem to have no problem developing and successfully marketing flagship arrangers.

Maybe Roland's R&D funds weren't substantial enough to develop a true successor to the G-70 at that present time?

That why I referred to it as being "sad". I think it's a loss to anyone wanting a G-70 equivalent in a new model, with all the cool new features like the Chord Sequencer, for instance, but still keeping the features you liked most like the large touch screen and the same high quality aftertouch equipped keyboard.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374660 - 11/10/13 03:39 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
The answer is simple, arrangers have always been designed primarily for the home market (Pro users are miniscule in comparison) who just want to sit down and play, and so are not familiar with pro keyboards and their actions.
Better keybeds dont sell keyboards in the home market only features, sounds, styles, easy play (Press a button and everything is done for you) and price, so there is no point in the manufacture spending extra on them.

Bill
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Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#374662 - 11/10/13 04:58 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: abacus]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: abacus
The answer is simple, arrangers have always been designed primarily for the home market (Pro users are miniscule in comparison) who just want to sit down and play, and so are not familiar with pro keyboards and their actions.
Better keybeds dont sell keyboards in the home market only features, sounds, styles, easy play (Press a button and everything is done for you) and price, so there is no point in the manufacture spending extra on them.

Bill


You could be right, Billy...I have always maintained that arrangers (keyboards with auto-accompaniment) were firstmost designed to be "home keyboards", like, for example, my Tyros4, the PA3X, the Audya, the BK-9 (& G-70), and, of course, your little Abacus.

Initially designed, as you say, for home players, who, also as you say, "just want to sit down and play", it turns out that some "pros" (you know, those people who play for profit) are clever enough to find a perfect use for them on stage and/or in the nite-clubs (as well as Nursing Homes and Assisted Living centers).

Nothing wrong with that, as they say (whoever "they" are?).

Since my recent retirement from Yamaha, and my self-imposed gig sabbatical (until early next year), I've become one of dem dere "home players" meself!

And, I am thoroughly enjoying it!

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374805 - 11/11/13 10:40 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Bill... The action that almost everybody first learns on and plays is the piano. And the number of THOSE in the hands of non-pro players FAR outnumbers those in pro hands. And a better built action is hard to find! So, if you think about it, MOST keyboard players started out at least on something better than what they are likely on now...

Thing is, you are hard pressed to find ANY keyboard short of the cheapest 'toy' bracket arrangers and play keyboards with as bad an action as the PSR S950. Yamaha's workstations have a MUCH better one, at a MUCH lower price. In fact, I cannot honestly think of a single keyboard out there within $1000 of the S950's price with even as bad a one. Other than the cheaper PSR's, of course.

Look at it this way... were the S950's action as good as the more dedicated Yamaha apologists would have you believe, how do you explain that Yamaha don't inflict (whoops! I meant 'use') it on any other type of keyboard they make..?

Perhaps on their other lines, they think that there aren't enough cheerleaders to allow them to get away with such an obvious cheapskate move solely in the name of profit?

And Gary... the 'buttons' reference was to the SA trigger buttons, NOT the action at all. Having disassembled many actions in my time, basically most of them use the same contact strip method. Nothing different there.

And Ian... there's only ONE person here making any noise about the BK-9 being a 'flagship'. From it's first announcement, I have repeatedly said the BK-9 is a MOTL offering, and have no more interest in Roland's advertising hype as you do. Less, apparently, given your apparent insistence on bringing it up all the time when you don't want the embarrassment of having it compared to the S950, which IS its Yamaha equivalent.

As you may have gleaned from my posts about it, despite being a good $1500 less than the G70, I have found this arranger so far advanced over the G70 that it is becoming my goto keyboard for solo and duo stuff. So, there you have it. $1500 less, 25 lbs lighter, and BETTER than the old flagship.

If only Yamaha came out with something like that!

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#374807 - 11/11/13 10:56 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Diki]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Diki

As you may have gleaned from my posts about it, despite being a good $1500 less than the G70, I have found this arranger so far advanced over the G70 that it is becoming my goto keyboard for solo and duo stuff. So, there you have it. $1500 less, 25 lbs lighter, and BETTER than the old flagship.


This BK-9 line sounds like you are saying it more for your own benefit than mine.

You certainly haven't convinced me, and not Fran either, but maybe if you say it enough, it will help you at least.

Nice try.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374813 - 11/11/13 11:43 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Just to add Diki, as long as you are chuffed with your little BK-9, that's all that really matters.

It is a fine instrument in it's own right, and I am glad it works for your purposes.

I won't tease you about it anymore.

Play and be happy.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374823 - 11/11/13 12:24 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I don't need convincing. It sits in front of me as I write this...

I merely keep repeating this while you continue to try to divert attention away from an S950/BK-9 comparison, and continue to try to force it to be compared to the T5, $2500 more...

How about simply giving up with that absurdity, and stick to the facts? Especially in light of the fact you haven't even SEEN or heard one?

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