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#369243 - 07/17/13 02:38 PM Just how important are ethics in this business?
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
During a recent discussion here, I mentioned that because a manufacturer allows an employee at a trade show and at other times to sell mainstream products directly to consumers in spite of having designated dealers with protected territories, I would never buy from either the distributor or the individual (who, incidentally, asked me not to ever tell an authorized distributor about the offer).

A participant in the discussion said that, because that was an issue he didn't have to deal with, it made no difference. He liked the product line and the individual and what I consider an unforgivable ethics violation didn't matter to him.

Does it (questionable ethics) matter to you? Would it impact taking a job or not or buying a product or not?


Russ

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#369245 - 07/17/13 03:04 PM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: captain Russ]
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
I reply only because I know this "participant" personally. smile

Ethics is a wonderful thing. If one believes in it & apply it, it effects EVERYTHING in ones life. It effects the taxes one pays, the truth one always tells, the honest relationship with one's spouse, to name but just a few. There are a great deal more.

But alas, I'm only another end user who buys a lot of stuff on a daily basis, the ethics behind it completely unknown to me at the time. "Cut my nose to spite my face" comes to mind. Some, who admit that something is an outstanding product, will live without it to prove a point.

Hell, I live in a corrupt country, but some of your governors beats even these, yet you bow to them on a daily basis... Mmmmm...

Just my 2 cents maybe worth considering. I'll not say anymore.

Henni


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Make sure you'll fly forever!

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#369248 - 07/17/13 03:20 PM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: captain Russ]
sparky589 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 1461
Loc: NJ
There are always things on the news that move me and others to boycott products or services. But with this current economy as a backdrop, many who don't like, say W**mart because of their labor/business practices,my avoid it for awhile , but are eventually going to go back instead of paying $100 more for that TV or what have you.

If convenience, time, and most of all $$ is not an issue for some, than boycotting a place or a product works better. Economics dictate this for many however, and when things are tight as they are now, principal loses to personal affordability.

Experiencing the problem yourself vs. getting the info from the media makes a difference too. People are not always believing what they hear. 60 minutes does an expose' a week, but for everything they reveal about a business or individual, there are many more that escaped the cameras. This perpetuates the a common reaction of "everybody in that business does it- this one just got caught or revealed"
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The older I get, the better I was..

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#369261 - 07/17/13 08:31 PM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: captain Russ]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Russ, you are my good friend and I know about your problem and respect you for speaking up. Of course what happened was wrong.
However, I think most of the problem NOW is with the distributor. They have not shown much interest or expertise in developing their marketing system. I had a relationship with them for a while and they are really nice folks but just don't seem to make a priority of this particular branch of their import operation. I must say they treated me great and fairly.
But, if it weren't for AJ, there most likely wouldn't be any support for Ketron in the US at all by now.
I think he took a bad situation and made an opportunity to build his business from it. There is no disputing that he knows the product from the inside out. He is in on development of the product from the ground up. He flew directly from the factory in Italy to our little puddle here in Louisiana with the first Audya to reach the states. Even in that early stage of infancy it sounded fantastic. He told us to be patient and it would be truly great in time. And it was, in around three or four years!
Evidently he has the approval and blessing of both the distributor and Ketron Italy. I only hope he is training someone to step in if, or when, they are needed.
Maybe it's time to consider forgiving this particular trespass and hope some good has come of it.

Plan B is we will fly to New Jersey and buy the distributorship.
With your marketing expertise and my sly wit, movie star looks and sparkling personality we could transform the entire industry!
We'll hire Diki for Public Relations Director. Rory can be our famous name endorser. Henni will handle our South African operations. Gary can entertain prospective dealers on his yacht. DNJ will handle all Ebay sales. Fran will show him how.
We'll have a Brubeck model that only has Jazz styles in it.
Chas can be corporate pilot and consultant for creating B3 sounds. Oh the possibilities are endless.
smile
DonM
P.S. Don't be mad at me, you don't pay me to be just a yes-man.
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DonM

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#369271 - 07/18/13 05:42 AM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: DonM]
sparky589 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 1461
Loc: NJ
Now that imaginary staffing is funny I don't care who you are..
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was..

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#369272 - 07/18/13 06:05 AM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: captain Russ]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: captain Russ
During a recent discussion here, I mentioned that because a manufacturer allows an employee at a trade show and at other times to sell mainstream products directly to consumers in spite of having designated dealers with protected territories, I would never buy from either the distributor or the individual (who, incidentally, asked me not to ever tell an authorized distributor about the offer).

A participant in the discussion said that, because that was an issue he didn't have to deal with, it made no difference. He liked the product line and the individual and what I consider an unforgivable ethics violation didn't matter to him.

Does it (questionable ethics) matter to you? Would it impact taking a job or not or buying a product or not?


Russ


Russ,

If the product was so good and you could not buy it anywhere else and it blew your mind you might need to think about ethics a bit deeper, that's if you really wanted it. Maybe it's not that good, your can by the same elsewhere and it ain't blown your mind, Russ life is much too sort, live and let live, if the manufacture ain't worried why should we, anyway more to the point and much more seriously, how are you keeping. Anyway how can you measure how good a bunch of style is, beauty is the the ears of the beholder, what, did you say... bit a truth in what DonM says too

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#369278 - 07/18/13 09:08 AM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: captain Russ]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Don, as usual, DELIGHTFUL! You're talking to a pretty "hard-liner".

I stopped taking the Wall Street Journal after nearly 50 years because of the terrible breach of journalistic ethics on the part of Rupert Murdock.

This thing with Ketron is a really big deal to me, probably because I have been involved in setting distributor/dealer relationships and policy most of my working life. And, I have fired lots of people for doing exactly the same thing. What went on was blatantly wrong, at least in the US, and I can't imagine EVER trusting or believing a person who knew he was wrong and did it anyway. It cost Ketron several long-time dealers.

I have found instruments I really wanted at NAMM before, and the honest guys take my name and have an authorized dealer call me.

The part that really angered me was the, "Don't tell any dealer about this deal" part. The dude knew it was wrong; did it anyway and did it again over the phone several months later.

And Tony (good to hear from you, by the way), you're right. If Ketron boards were so superior that nothing could replace them, some would probably adjust their activity, take a big swallow and buy Ketron anyway. It's GREAT equipment, but less than 25% of my work involves arrangers, so living without a Ketron, or ANY arranger is certainly possible.

Hey, Don! Want a good Midjay back? (LOL)!


Russ

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#369279 - 07/18/13 09:19 AM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: DonM]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: DonM
.



Plan B
We'll hire Diki for Public Relations Director.



Business bust same week.... dance2
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Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#369283 - 07/18/13 10:37 AM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: captain Russ]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Just let me write the ad copy and the manuals... might get something readable for a change!
coffee

I think that ethics and good business go hand in hand. Let's not kid ourselves. The minute Russ made public what he was offered at the trade show, every Ketron dealer in the country knew about it. If they didn't already know (which they may well have done).

Now, under those circumstances, are you even a little bit surprised how bad Ketron's dealer network is, in numbers, volume and having stuff in stock? By allowing this breach of ethics (TBH, I still haven't figured out why the other dealers haven't sued Ketron's US distributor for breach of contract if they were promised territorial exclusivity) Ketron have essentially guaranteed that no-one wants to touch their line with a barge pole, knowing they can (and are) being undercut by some 'super-dealer' with no territorial restrictions, better access to Ketron Italy, and a lock on the only upgrade path for the Audya.

Unfortunately, even in this day and age of internet stores, most people that are willing to drop $5000 on a keyboard prefer to be able to see it, play it, and talk with knowledgeable sales staff before they offer their credit card up. Ketron have made sure, by allowing that, that the vast majority of people in the US live too far away from a Ketron dealer to make the drive, especially in this era of $4/gal gasoline!

Ethics violations have consequences, often unforeseen and unintended. I believe Ketron's US distributor, whether they knew or not what would happen, have caused their own demise in the long run.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#369284 - 07/18/13 10:43 AM Re: Just how important are ethics in this business? [Re: captain Russ]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of Mackie's ad copy and manuals!

All manuals should be this simple to read, fun, funny and still be fully informative. Whoever does their work is a genius!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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