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#310299 - 03/26/10 12:35 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Tony & Diki
You must have short memories
I suggest you look back through various forums, and you will find all manufactures have had to issue updates to fix bugs found after release. (Even Yamaha and they are normally the bee’s knee’s when it comes to producing something that has no problems when released)

Bill
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#310300 - 03/26/10 12:41 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Tony & Diki
You must have short memories
Bill


Bill, what did you say your name was?

Look Bill, MS is like rocking horse dropping, there’s a photo around somewhere of one hundred in a pile, they are probably still there, you could not but one in the UK if you wanted one, how smart is that. You know to get noticed in the market place you need an image, a good one, are we there yet. You appear to know tell us where we are at with the MS, the advertising budget a pile of boxes and the hairy legged guy in shorts doing the demo team didn’t sway me one bit. Not certain that Dom would lend me a KB for a year, when James had to cough up 300 Euros and test it!




[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 03-26-2010).]
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#310301 - 03/26/10 12:58 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
now hope James send new demos because thread going back in wrong direction.

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#310302 - 03/26/10 02:01 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Reread my post. I simply say that a soundSET (note the capitals) is what eludes the open community. Because Yamaha (or any other closed arranger) design the styles AND the sounds, there is an integration that eludes translated styles through piecemeal soundsets. I NEVER have dissed the basic quality of individual sounds. But run a hundred different styles, translated from several different sources through a soundset that is piecemealed together from a dozen different sources, and you get the 'open' sound. Spectacular at times, and spectacularly BAD at times. For all closed arrangers' blandness, consistency is NOT one of their problems. If you are a harried working professional, having to sit there and babysit each and every one of your hundreds if not thousands of styles to ensure that they play back consistently may take more of your time than you have to give...

And James, once again, you simply invent meaning where none is written. I am NOT taking any kind of a dig at you, everyone appreciates your openness about what you are doing. We're just jealous, that's all However, you DON'T see this process going on publicly with the majors, for all their inevitable buggy nature, if you take the long history of the MS, it's a far cry from the odd issue that slips out past Yamaha or Korg's sentinels.

I'm also curious to see what your attitude is, if you decide to release anything that ISN'T free in the way of sounds or styles. Are you going to be as blasé about the issue of piracy when it's YOUR hard work that is stolen? I sincerely hope so.

BTW, KetronAJ has left me hanging in the wind, but he and I emailed privately on the issue (he contacted me), and he assured me that Ketron's styles are as rigorously copyrighted as Yamaha's are. I guess he's waiting for their lawyers to word a response on this forum in the correct terms.

All I have been trying to point out is that, because they involve audio data, they are a snap to prove in court what they are, and that yes, while all of us trade styles around like bubblegum cards, if anyone involves the use of a style of Ketron's with audio data in it in a commercial release that has any economic success, should Ketron decide to go after a piece of your action, it would be a simple process to succeed in court.

But dial down the paranoia a bit, James. I was completely serious about my offer. I would be only TOO happy to have one of these things, and if I could assist with beta testing, again, it would be my honor...

All I have ever tried to do in my long history of posting about the MS is introduce a little sense of reality to the fanboy enthusiastic gushing about this amazing product that, while it DOES solve several very thorny issues in regard to sound quality and flexibility for arranger and WS user alike, it also introduces problems that you DON'T have to deal with with a more traditional closed keyboard. Problems that few open keyboard enthusiasts are willing to talk about... Nothing more, honestly!

And Dom.... take a look at Tony's last couple of posts. You'd REALLY sell an MS to that guy? Are you INSANE? I'm beginning to believe he is...

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#310303 - 03/26/10 02:39 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1233
Loc: United Kingdom
please. all the talk is premature. Just let James do his thing with the MS, report back to us and let the thread go its course.

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#310304 - 03/26/10 02:52 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6755
As long as soundquallity like this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrr0TKszV0&feature=related

is possible on these instruments, Yamaha needs to improve their soundquallity by miles, and they need to do it fast.
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#310305 - 03/26/10 02:52 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
I repeat my request to James..m8, can you please start another thread?

This one is shot..

Dennis

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#310306 - 03/26/10 03:16 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Reread my post. I simply say that a soundSET (note the capitals) is what eludes the open community. Because Yamaha (or any other closed arranger) design the styles AND the sounds, there is an integration that eludes translated styles through piecemeal soundsets. I NEVER have dissed the basic quality of individual sounds. But run a hundred different styles, translated from several different sources through a soundset that is piecemealed together from a dozen different sources, and you get the 'open' sound. Spectacular at times, and spectacularly BAD at times. For all closed arrangers' blandness, consistency is NOT one of their problems. If you are a harried working professional, having to sit there and babysit each and every one of your hundreds if not thousands of styles to ensure that they play back consistently may take more of your time than you have to give...

And James, once again, you simply invent meaning where none is written. I am NOT taking any kind of a dig at you, everyone appreciates your openness about what you are doing. We're just jealous, that's all However, you DON'T see this process going on publicly with the majors, for all their inevitable buggy nature, if you take the long history of the MS, it's a far cry from the odd issue that slips out past Yamaha or Korg's sentinels.

I'm also curious to see what your attitude is, if you decide to release anything that ISN'T free in the way of sounds or styles. Are you going to be as blasé about the issue of piracy when it's YOUR hard work that is stolen? I sincerely hope so.

BTW, KetronAJ has left me hanging in the wind, but he and I emailed privately on the issue (he contacted me), and he assured me that Ketron's styles are as rigorously copyrighted as Yamaha's are. I guess he's waiting for their lawyers to word a response on this forum in the correct terms.

All I have been trying to point out is that, because they involve audio data, they are a snap to prove in court what they are, and that yes, while all of us trade styles around like bubblegum cards, if anyone involves the use of a style of Ketron's with audio data in it in a commercial release that has any economic success, should Ketron decide to go after a piece of your action, it would be a simple process to succeed in court.

But dial down the paranoia a bit, James. I was completely serious about my offer. I would be only TOO happy to have one of these things, and if I could assist with beta testing, again, it would be my honor...

All I have ever tried to do in my long history of posting about the MS is introduce a little sense of reality to the fanboy enthusiastic gushing about this amazing product that, while it DOES solve several very thorny issues in regard to sound quality and flexibility for arranger and WS user alike, it also introduces problems that you DON'T have to deal with with a more traditional closed keyboard. Problems that few open keyboard enthusiasts are willing to talk about... Nothing more, honestly!

And Dom.... take a look at Tony's last couple of posts. You'd REALLY sell an MS to that guy? Are you INSANE? I'm beginning to believe he is...


do you think if no good beta testers tried MS O.S, MS had been stable and now used by James?

there were even beta users, who report daily to domenico by e-mail. there is even in his office 24 hours a MS connected to the Internet. step by step, programmers are making the O.S better and better. Therefore, is the developments of MS/Groove O.S fast. open source community helps each other free, every day to create a software better and stable for normal end user. remember Domenico besides open source community, has also paid programmers.He also makes donations to many open source community to make the O.S for lionstracs products better and better. He asked people what they expect new O.S. patience was what he expected from people to make what they asked.

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#310307 - 03/26/10 04:07 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Tony

Open keyboards are never finished, they are constantly evolving, and after a few years can be totally different from the original.

Example:
Here is the development of OAS from its launch in 2000 till 2005 http://www.4shared.com/file/250238215/17da6466/OAS_2000_-_2005.html and since then even more features have been added.

A similar evolving process occurs with hardware boards; however you have to buy a complete new board to obtain the updated features.

Example:
Users of a Ketron SD1 have to buy a new Audya to get all that it offers, whereas in an open keyboard you just have to buy the new software (Many software updates are free) to give you all the latest features and sounds.

Users:
Those that like open keyboards, usually like to use what they want, NOT what the manufactures says they can have.
Those that like closed keyboards are usually happy to accept the same features, sounds etc. as every other user of that board.

Choice:
You buy the keyboard that suits your style, not somebody else’s. (Try before you buy)

If you don’t know where to buy a keyboard from, contact the manufacture for details.

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 03-26-2010).]
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#310308 - 03/26/10 10:29 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Tony

Open keyboards are never finished, they are constantly evolving, and after a few years can be totally different from the original.

Bill



Bill,

I know and understand the different between Audya and MS, and I also understand that MS is a platform on which to build, using styles and samples that someone else has produced and you buy from them or copy from a source which may or may not come at you for an infringement of copyright. The latter I doubt would happen even if copying material produced by others was copy protected, especially across country boundaries. For example, I was in Russia in 1999 and you could go on Sunday to the down town Moscow DVD market and buy any music DVD and software DVD for a £1.00. Now just imagine Ketron trying to get into Russia to sue a MS owner for copying their styles, have you ever tried to get into Russia even for a holiday.
Bill you state, “Open keyboards are never finished, they are constantly evolving, and after a few years can be totally different from the original”.
I totally agree, but where I beg to differ is the companies selling products that have problem with the basic software, products which are pushed out through the door with insufficient testing, mainly but not only because the companies doing this are two small and lack financial resources to hold their products back until they are deemed fit for purpose. There is a good reason for them not doing this and this is embedded in USB 1 on Audya, work it out yourself. (Timeline - best bet future proofing)
Now Bill, someone earlier said that Yamaha lets KBs out on the market place and they are subsequently found to have bugs or hardware problems. Who would you rather have to send you new KB back to for repair, Yamaha, Ketron, Liontracs, Roland or Korg, this is a no brainer so don’t answer it, but it’s not a loaded question. I have thrown the box away for my Ketron. It was much too big to put through the roof hatch.
A good practice is to wait for about 2 years after the original release of a KB and then buy one, but Oh Boy what fun you will miss, no pain no gain, that reminds me I must take my 5 a day tables, they keep me vertical during the day!
Bill, if you do wait two years we and a few others will have paid for you to have a fully functional KB free of bugs or will it be, you see every time software is updated, there is more chance of introducing bug on bug.
As far as a few members of SZ and only a few they have waited 1 yr for your Audya and I have no doubt it will be right within the next year, before it is totally superseded, I think they call this progress.
Bill what board do you have?

Kind regards
Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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