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#310289 - 03/26/10 06:28 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
imagine if someone connect 1 or two or more of these controllers with usb cabel to MS/Groove:
http://www.roland.com/products/en/PCR-800/

simple!!!!!!

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#310290 - 03/26/10 06:45 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by AFG Music:
imagine if someone connect 1 or two or more of these controllers with usb cabel to MS/Groove:
http://www.roland.com/products/en/PCR-800/

simple!!!!!!


yes , true
I have one client that have buy 3 Roland PCR-800.
The MS is used on bottom as master keyboard with the all sound system.
1 PCR-800 Jack connect to the B4 ASIO host as second manual.
1 PCR-800 Jack connect to ASIO Host 1= Superwave P8
1 PCR-800 Jack connect to ASIO Host 4= NI Massive.

In realtime you can continue use the full features of the MS OS as a Master system, but PLUS the other 3 PCR controller for always play realtime the others engines!

This is the Open System, you buy only 1 keyboard and you wil use like you have 4 keybsoards!
Each PCR-800 is like a embedded Synth.
Is really fun, simple to use/connection ( only 1 USB cable) and at the end COST less!

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#310291 - 03/26/10 07:46 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:

Nothing to do with Jack, this is a feature from MS OS.
Do you have to understand that we are running to many different sounds engines ( windows too) and we dont know HOW they respond with the all CC.
Example: IF you press one chord on DSP rom/Asio host, we send the Note ON.
If you still hold the chord and change sound engine, the midi port will changed and play on the new midi out/sound engine.
Of course, on the last sound engine used, you still have the note ON and then you can not reset. ( the only waht then is to press the key: RESET that will send the reset and all note OFF to the al ports)
Same of course happen IF you global transpose, every time that you transpose we have first to send the ALL note OFF.

I know about this all note off, dont worry, but is the only way for playing the all sounds engines.

Notes:
From OS 4.0, we have added this features, just for use some more SEQ independent from the keyboard midi router:
# ASIO 1: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 5.
# ASIO 2: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 6.
# ASIO 3: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 7.
# ASIO 4: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 8.
# ASIO 5: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 9. No Midi reset CC #120 on this port when switching engines.
# ASIO 6: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 10. No Midi reset CC #120 on this port when switching engines.
# ASIO 7: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 11. No Midi reset CC #120 on this port when switching engines.
# ASIO 8: Mapped the ASIO HOST on Desktop 12. No Midi reset CC #120 on this port when switching engines.
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/lionstracs-os-40-p-242.html

Is this what you mean?



Yes, I totally understand but just to check here. So if note data does gets stuck pressing the reset button fixes the problem, and to avoid the problem in the first place, don't hold down keys when transposing or switching from mode to mode.

Yes ?


So how do you reset a VST HOST when it looses all ability to receive midi data from it being stopped and started or some other reason like simply accessing certain items on the HOST's menu.

Kind Regards
James.



[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 03-26-2010).]

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#310292 - 03/26/10 08:09 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6756
I have a question for Dom...

Did you ever consider using Kore(player) as a host for NI Komplete. This way you need only 1 Asio host for all the NI Komplete instruments and many more.

I really like how Kore 2 functions, and you could set it up in such a way that you use your faders instead of your knobs. The Kore/player software is very userfriendly and works like a dream.

Maybe an Idea... add 8 knobs to your new mediastation to controll Kore (or anythingelse) that would give even more controll options then the GRoove allready has
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#310293 - 03/26/10 08:35 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Bachus:
I have a question for Dom...

Did you ever consider using Kore(player) as a host for NI Komplete. This way you need only 1 Asio host for all the NI Komplete instruments and many more.

I really like how Kore 2 functions, and you could set it up in such a way that you use your faders instead of your knobs. The Kore/player software is very userfriendly and works like a dream.

Maybe an Idea... add 8 knobs to your new mediastation to controll Kore (or anythingelse) that would give even more controll options then the GRoove allready has


it is possible already, install kore and conect a midi usb keyboard controller with knobs and sliders like roland edirol PSR 800. it wil be your second synth and you can controll kore totally in realtime with your midi usb controller and use other options of MS/Groove for other things. but your idea is not bad.
but when you at least use 1 other usb midi keyboard controller with knobs and sliders with MS / Groove,you create much more new potential with MS/Groove then has already.


if you have KORE 2 Controller for kore and conect it with usb cabel to one MS asio, and conect other usb midi keyboard controller to the same MS asio works to, and you can use the other MS options in realtime with this in realtime.
http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kore-2/?page=322

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 03-26-2010).]

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#310294 - 03/26/10 11:01 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Bachus:
What MS really really needs to become the ultimate success is a huge community of people creating awesome stuff (Styles/sounds/performances) on it and sharing it over the web.

I am only wondering how long it will take till someone finds a way to copy all those gorgeous Audya styles and then create his own Q-ranger styles with that raw matterial... and finally sharing it on the web for free...

I don't wanna discuss if its legal or not... but when MS and groove become popular this is going to happen making them even more popular.

And best thing is, Ketron will not sell one instrument less, because a Ketron Customer that likes a closed system that will work straight out of the box will never buy an open system that needs to be tweaked with every song they want to play.

And you can also count on your fingers that there will be a gorgeous freeware soundset available that can stand up to T3 and so make the Mediastation the perfect system to play T3 styles, or a soundset with Roland quallity so Diki can play his favourite styles on MS too.


I don't say its legal, but its going to happen when the Groove becomes popular and mainstream... And people like Helmut Ederer developing styles for the Mediastation and trying to sell it in Germany and Austria will only speed up that process.


I have doubted very long about the possible success of Mediastation and Groove, but the instrument has grown month after month and its finally ready for mainstream music market. As long as Dom keeps improving it (like debugging the faults found by James) and adding more feautures to it, the company has a bright future and will gladly take over the place of companies that stopped being innovative and have left the arranger buiseness (Roland, Wersi, Gem)



Sorry, but I couldn't let it go. You brought the issue up, remember, not me...

The thing is, if a player has the choice between an open keyboard with NO Ketron styles and a real Ketron WITH their great styles, what's he going to do? To be honest, the vast majority of arranger users are more concerned about the styles IN an arranger, than the arranger itself. It's really one of the primary reasons anybody chooses one arranger over another...

And if he chooses the open keyboard but then pirates the Ketron styles, that's one LESS sale Ketron are going to make, because without the option, chances are that he WOULD have chosen the Ketron. And if a significant number of people choose the MS and pirate the styles, what happens as Ketron's bottom line dwindles past the already probably pretty low mark it is at now? Yep, that's right... they go under. And then there are NO new Ketron styles. And the guy that bought the MS and pirated the styles now has nothing new for the rest of time...

Anybody really want that?

This is such short term thinking. Unless Dom steps up to the plate, and starts to make styles for the MS of the same quality that the Ketron ones have (and there's been no evidence of that happening any time soon), OK, you get Ketron styles until they go broke (or copy protect them), and that will be the last you get. Get a REAL Ketron, and you are likely to be provided with new styles for the foreseeable future, but leave them with no income, and that's the end of the gravy train. You'd better REALLY like those styles they have out now! You'll be playing them a LONG, long time...

I also love your optimism that there will EVER be a freeware soundset for the MS that rivals the closed one. Let's face it, Yamaha have probably spent MILLIONS over the years honing and developing the soundset they have now in a T3. Making these things is NOT an easy process. It's VERY expensive and difficult to do. As proof, I offer the example of, even after YEARS of soundfont development by amateurs, there still isn't a single one out there as well integrated and consistent as the closed keyboards have. Anyone remember the 'T2 Clone' project that Dom talked about years ago? I wonder whatever happened to THAT? Truth is, once someone working on this starts to realize the technical, financial and artistic hurdles to actually achieving a complete soundset superior to a closed keyboard, they give up in frustration. Sure, you want AVERAGE GM/GS/XG playback, you got all kinds of options. But who wants that? Average sounds coming out of an anything BUT average arranger?

So, I love your optimism, but after what, five or SIX years of development, the open keyboards have yet to achieve an OVERALL superiority in integrated soundset. Sure, taken one by one, many of the sounds (possibly most) sound better by themselves. But taken TOGETHER (which is the whole POINT of an arranger), they still fail to be as well balanced and coherent as the sets in the T3/PA2X etc.. And I seriously doubt anyone is ever going to be able to develop something that does, and give it away for free. Or even affordably...

You want the best sounds available to come out of your MS, you are going to start to look at the prices of TOTL VSTi soundsets. I mean, are you REALLY contemplating getting something like the MS, and then putting budget GM VSTi's in it? No, you're going to want the best. The best drum libraries, the best guitar libraries, the best piano libraries, the best orchestral libraries, the best bass libraries, the best loop libraries, the best synth VSTi's, and so on and so forth (and don't even START to think about those megabuck orchestral libraries). And those will add up to more money than the MS costs by itself!

Best of luck with those free libraries! Or are you going to pirate all the sounds as well?

Once again, don't get me wrong. I LOVE the MS! I think it does what it does better than anything else out there. I'd LOVE a nice free one (or a Ä300 one!), and to be honest, if I had the spare cash lying around, I'd even consider one at full price! But I wouldn't go around thinking it will be either cheap or easy to load it up with firstly a soundset that rivals a closed arranger, and secondly with pirated styles that won't sound as good as the original arranger.

And one last comment... What has Dom's beta testing been like, when James is reporting issue after issue in his MS? While I appreciate that Dom is doing his best to squash the bugs as he gets the reports from James, surely Dom should have known about these issues in the first place, and should have squashed them before the software is inflicted on the general user (some of whom will be FAR less technical and understanding than James is - hint hint, Tony! ). Once these things get in the hands of regular arranger players (after all, that's what you are saying it should be), these issues are going to be frustrating.

While it's fascinating to watch all this unfold in real time out in the open here at SZ, what we are watching is a process that SHOULD have happened before the software was released in the first place, out of sight, out of mind, and while it's IS good to see that Dom is right on it (I wish other manufacturers were as responsive), it is also worrying to see how much actually slips out either untested or unfixed in the first place. You don't see this degree of bad beta testing from the majors (or at least, you didn't until the Audya!), and if Dom wants to be one of the major players soon, he might start to hire guys like James WAY before the software gets released, and do this process quietly, discretely and conclusively BEFORE it frustrates its' users (like it did Dennis)...

And, to kick things off, Dom, send ME a Ä300 MS and I will be only TOO happy to beta test it for you!

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#310295 - 03/26/10 11:29 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
there will always be people who do something free for musicians as it sounds:
http://www.flamestudios.org/free/GigaSamples

compare these sounds with a closed arranger. these sounds are free. there will ever be free styles for lionstracs created by users
This is all started by
tastenpoint
http://www.tastenpoint.at/



[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 03-26-2010).]

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#310296 - 03/26/10 11:30 AM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6756
Quote:

I also love your optimism that there will EVER be a freeware soundset for the MS that rivals the closed one. Let's face it, Yamaha have probably spent MILLIONS over the years honing and developing the soundset they have now in a T3. Making these things is NOT an easy process. It's VERY expensive and difficult to do.


Thats exactly why Lionstracs and open labs systems are the future..

Yamaha refuses to be inovative...They have the technology and the financial means to create keyboard instruments far beyound what they develope today. but they refuse to take the next step in innovation and choose for the safety of what they have allways produced.

While this seems save, it opens up teritority for companies that otherwise would have had no chance, and those necomers will in the end take a huge share of Yamaha's own market, thats how big time economics have allways worked. Be innovative or die (US car industry is a good example of this)

Running NI Kompletet on Mediastation puts the good old Yamaha instruments the class of thin and frail instruments.




[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 03-26-2010).]
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#310297 - 03/26/10 12:03 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Diki, I think you totally missed the point of what he was saying.

With any end users community comes free files and the collective efforts of everyone are combined in one way or another. It's a simple fact of how things work.

I've already optimised a few Ketron styles that have interested me. Now that this work is done, nobody else has to do it if I share what I've done.

Your opinions on sharing styles....well... that's your opinion. You call it piracy yet you do it yourself.

As for sound, well I'm a sound desinger. Go to KORG forums and check out the Triton Section. Vast majorty of sound in there were created by me and given away for free.

Same goes for all the content. It's free. Who's to say that if a group of Mediastation users got to gether that the same won't happen ? Fact is it will, and I will be developing free and commercial sounds for the keyboard.

I believe Karo are also going to do the same.

Quote:
And one last comment... What has Dom's beta testing been like, when James is reporting issue after issue in his MS?


Your obviously not following the two conversation at all. I've only found two confirmed bugs in all my time with it so far.

Quote:
And, to kick things off, Dom, send ME a Ä300 MS and I will be only TOO happy to beta test it for you!


Is that meant to be a dig at me being bribed or something ? I told you and everyone else on this forum that I would be totally honest in reporting my findings good or bad, and that I could not be bought out. I'm not under any obligation to do anything for Domenico or anyone else here. The keyboard is mine to do with as I like. I could have taken it and posted nothing.

Fact is I'm true to my word. The mere fact that you know how much I paid for the Shipping and hardware upgrade just reinforced the fact that I'm not hiding anything and that I have been totally up front on all issues.

This is your first time getting to see real information posted on the forum and proper dialogue both ways between an end user and a developer asking serious questions. Plus you get to see it and hear the keyboard properly in the process which is something you have been asking for as long as I can remember.

So give me some credit man, I'm helping you out here too by doing all this you know.

Just sit back and enjoy getting to know the keyboard for the first time in detail. I'm far from done here and soon as I'm over my cold you will even hear me doing full performances on it as well as singing.

Regards
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 03-26-2010).]

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#310298 - 03/26/10 12:05 PM Re: Lionstracs Mediastation arrived today.
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:


And one last comment... What has Dom's beta testing been like, when James is reporting issue after issue in his MS? While I appreciate that Dom is doing his best to squash the bugs as he gets the reports from James, surely Dom should have known about these issues in the first place, and should have squashed them before the software is inflicted on the general user (some of whom will be FAR less technical and understanding than James is - hint hint, Tony! ). Once these things get in the hands of regular arranger players (after all, that's what you are saying it should be), these issues are going to be frustrating.




Diki,

I have been watching before I throw my cap in, look Diki I know that you get a bit uptight with me, but be patience like I and others need to be. Diki,I donít always see eye to eye with you but on this one I agree 1000% that Dom does not appear to have done a good job on the MS and I would compare that with ***** , Diki their all from the same family, you kick one and they will all limp! They are all basically ice-cream makers who have read practical electronic as kids. Dom is hedging his bets on James, but you know James has managed to stay in business without Dom and the MS, and will do in the future. My problem is, will James have enough time to devote to the exercise, I would think not, but James must answer that. He started off in all gusto of a racing driver, with some DVDs that looked like things were really going to take off, but now its gone silent, for me, I would want a few £1000.00 pounds to do Dom R&D, testing and advertising. For James to be finding bugs firms up what I said above, I donít want anyone who looks at SZ to get the wrong messages, but come on Diki, I will never buy another KB unless I can have it free for a year and then pay for it, or send it back. I certainly wonít be buying 300 Euros of Ice-cream!

Tony

Raspberry Ripple for me Diki, big bowl, no chocy bits for me, look like bugs!

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 03-26-2010).]
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