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#236523 - 06/21/08 04:22 AM Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4637
Loc: English Riviera, UK
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#236524 - 06/21/08 04:31 AM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 36314
Quote:
Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:
Here are the all new styles demos: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=26
this are only with GIGA sounds GM/GS, no editing at all, just loaded the EMC styles, saved the session and played on MS.
end next week about another 200 midi styles will be ready ( 450 total now) then I start to upload some new Audio-midi styles too

cheers

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#236525 - 06/21/08 05:03 AM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Check again this night..( I go in swimmpool now...to much hot here in Italy...but also on SZ..)
I will also upload some new midifiles songs played with the new GIGA soundbankGM2 V.4.

Sounds now start to be really amazing!
I upload also the relative midifiles used, then you can compare with your keyboards too.

Enjoy what you play.
cheers

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#236526 - 06/21/08 09:01 AM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1138
Loc: Oradea, RO
to my ears, honestly, the sounds are pretty common, nothing extraordinary. it might be the leveling which is not done right, but these VST giga-sounds, in the styles from the above link, are just boring.
might very well be just me, but i tell you the truth, i had to stop the playing after 10 seconds for almost all (five) styles i've tried. hurt my ears.

sorry...
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#236527 - 06/21/08 11:20 AM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Has anyone at Lionstracs considered putting an MS and a T2 or PA2X Pro (or even a G70 ) next to each other, and NOT releasing an MS demo until it sounds BETTER than the competition?

I don't know about you, but if I were trying to sell something, that might be the first thing I did...

In all honesty, how many arrangers would Yamaha sell, if this is what their demo page sounded like, and this is how they sounded OOTB? Roland and Korg would be rubbing their hands in glee, that's for sure!

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#236528 - 06/21/08 11:36 AM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4637
Loc: English Riviera, UK
With all the money Yamaha, Roland and Korg have to spend on R & D I should hope they get it right, however small companies like Lionstracs do not have that luxury, and so have to move in smaller steps.
Compare the latest demos to those of 12 months ago, and they have come on in leaps and bounds, and it can only get better.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#236529 - 06/21/08 12:10 PM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, Bill, but let's face it. If the guys at MS can't put together a style demo that even halfway approaches the standards of their much less expensive competition, what on earth should persuade an arranger user that magically, HE is going to be able to do much better?

There certainly is a complete lack of user demos to show that fact. The sad fact is, the factory demos ARE the best that is out there for this arranger, and they fail to equal, yet alone surpass the competition.

Now, I don't consider myself a virtuoso in any way, but put a T2 in my hands, or a PA2X Pro, or my G70 , and I am SURE I can play something as good as any of the factory style demos from those companies. As I think many of us here could...

So why is Dom finding it so hard to find someone that doesn't bollix up playing the MS..? The obvious inference is that his demonstrator is NOT a bad player (it doesn't take a great player to make a great arranger sound great). Just that the MS really DOES sound that bad. And NO player can make it sound better...

I really believe that the hardware and OS of an arranger is maybe 10% of it's value. The sound-set and the styles are 90% of what makes one successful, and another not. It seems Dom has been putting 90% into the hardware and OS. Sadly (for him), the vast majority of arranger players do not care one jot about Linux wrappers, elastic audio, VSTi capabilities and 24 bit converters. Not until they can turn it on, select ANY style and any sound, start playing, and hear something that blows all the (far less expensive) competition away.

THEN they might get worked up about all the other stuff it can do...

In a small way, Dom is starting to see the light. He has worked long and hard to provide sounds and styles that work for the Serbian music market. This attention to the CONTENT, rather than the OS, has payed dividends in increased sales, from what he says.... Now if only he would continue this, give the OS a rest for a while, and prioritize the CONTENT for the rest of the world, this thing has a fighting chance.

But if he continues to post demos that would embarrass any of the major arranger manufacturers (or their customers), while continually touting new OS features that don't translate into immediately better styles (and demos), it's going to be a continuation of this long, uphill battle.

How hard can it be to grasp? FIRST, we want kick ass, TOTL styles and sounds. THEN we want cutting edge features. Not the other way around...

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#236530 - 06/21/08 01:21 PM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
mrdave Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Rimini, Italy
All the styles I tried on this page are G70 styles, so I tried the real thing side by side and my G70 blows away this MS thing. Styles on that page sounds really awful, with parts completely unbalanced and pretty standard GM sounds, so the first thing MS developers have to do is to create ORIGINAL content for it, not just put other brands' styles and sounds into it.

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#236531 - 06/21/08 01:48 PM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Has anyone at Lionstracs considered putting an MS and a T2 or PA2X Pro (or even a G70 ) next to each other, and NOT releasing an MS demo until it sounds BETTER than the competition?

I don't know about you, but if I were trying to sell something, that might be the first thing I did...

In all honesty, how many arrangers would Yamaha sell, if this is what their demo page sounded like, and this is how they sounded OOTB? Roland and Korg would be rubbing their hands in glee, that's for sure!


Just for your know...
We already made a lot of live keyboards comparation in some concert and at the Musikmesse exibition. ( just look some video on youtube if you don't believe me)
For respect, I don't make brands names BUT you can see on the youtube video how many important brand people come visit us.
2 of these are also asking me for one company agreement, that I can license my hardware/software for his new products...

About he keyboard comparation, NO ONE till now can be compete with the MS Audio quality and with the 126dB dynamic range. Any stupid sounds/Mp3 on MS is played with full dynamic at 24bit system and not at 16bit/80db like te all others.

in some exibition I have invited the others brand to come in our stand, BUT all have refused the offer, this just because after listen one GIGA Bosendorfer 290, B4 VST, MS Synth...all process at 24bit resolution,they was totally scared!
Anyway, i'm always ready to make a real comparation where they want and then we can see who will laugh.

do NOT compare the Mp3 in my webpage, because the Mp3 can NEVER compete with the MS audio outputs! Mp3 is only a portable internet format.

Com on Diki, do NOT compare your G-70 or the others keyboards that have 32/64/200Mb of ROM soundbank...all limited and cutted for fitting inside 200/300 sounds...OR waiting like the tyros 50 minute for loading the sampler...

Read again in the other topics, how the Tyros drumset sounds...why then they try to find a VST solution? Forget the 20-30 superarticulation sounds ( that under GIG we can have too) all the other sounds are recycled from PSR models...

About your last message, I don'tt start to see ANY light, we have only try to develope from nothing a new Arranger engine based on Audio-Midi SEQ, where the all composer in this world use for work and make styles too( cubase, Logic...)
Complex and nice styles you can create ONLY if you have a good SEQ tools and NOT from the keyboard editor, thats all.
We give the arranger tools and the composer now can create all what he like, under OPEN system and NOT limited like the embedded keyboards.

We are a small company and we DO NOT need BIG orders like MUST have the yamaha, Roland, Korg for survive.
Arranger field is really so small, I think ONLY the 1% of the all keyboards are arranger.( this also because they can NOT play on one arranger.. )

Most musician ask us the Sounds quality, VST support and one nice SEQ integrated on the keyb, Qranger now is the right one.
You can criticize how much you want of this oriental people, BUT only this people are full of money, all the others can only talk and talk..and at the end don't have the money for buy one professional keyboards.
Let the bigger sell the toys under 500 dollars, we really are NOT interesting at all.
All my clients ( from 5 years) had buy the mediastation just one time, you there had buy a new keyboard every 6 months..at the end who had spend less?

5 years ago, was not available Windows Vista, Kontact 4, Logic audio Pro, AMD quad core and so on..it mean that they before had stolen our money? Every years come out new technology and software, BUT this don't mean that you have to change the mediastation, Just upgrade the CPU/Mainboard and install the new software.

Anyway..be patience Diki...now I have a nice arranger tool and every days will be continue better and better,for new audio styles too.
Now I'm on this point, it mean that we don't return back in technology but always in better.
Look the all others..what they continue offer you for new? Always the same warmed soup...

enjoy what you play...

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#236532 - 06/21/08 02:05 PM Re: Mediastation Arranger gets closer to Fruition
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by mrdave:
All the styles I tried on this page are G70 styles, so I tried the real thing side by side and my G70 blows away this MS thing. Styles on that page sounds really awful, with parts completely unbalanced and pretty standard GM sounds, so the first thing MS developers have to do is to create ORIGINAL content for it, not just put other brands' styles and sounds into it.


Don't worry, the new MS styles developer will make new native MS Audio-Midi styles too.
The qranger tool offer the possibility to import the al others brands styles, why we have to remove this feature it IF the all others still make the same??
Or you mean that Roland have factory developed 16.000 styles??

Remember also one stuff:
Mediastation is a PC based system, with GIGA sampler, VST and other sounds PC engines and NOT a ROM+DSP based systen like the all embedded keyboard.
With the ROM+DSP engine, you can control and levelling perfect the all sounds/styles, under a PC open system, this is like impossible.
Each GIGA, VST...have a different sounds and volumes engine, depend how many oscillators, voice... you open and every time the global volumes will change and not levelled.

So..with the MS you have to choose one compromise system, IF you like to open so many VST, GIGA, Synth's, you must also accept this all compromise..
in my MS Pro I just have installed one AMD Athlon XP dulacore 5200+, 8Gb RAM system and I have open and played about 1300 Voices.
This was just for testing the Linux OS, but of course the globally volumes OUT had changed totally! Was not a stereo HiFi CD player...
It is a compromise... you have to choose what is better for your gig's.
For play some Bossa Nova with a nice guitar and sax...I'm the first to tell you to buy one Tyros 3.
the problem is that my clients do NOT want this...this is my problem.
cheers

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