Greetings all -

I have recently been receiving inquiries asking if I had a setup for dances, rather than the usual acoustic background music I usually play. These requests have been so numerous that it has forced me to look into a new setup.

I had a Petosa Millennium digital reedless accordion with a Ketron XD3 arranger module and it didn't cut it. 32-note polyphony and no upgrades really frustrated me. Didn't like the styles too much either. It also was really expensive - $5000 for the accordion and $1500 for the XD3. I ended up selling the setup.

I have a really nice acousitc accordion that I would like to use as the centerpiece of my setup. I would like to either:

a) Use an on-board sequencer and program styles in a keyboard like the Tyros/PSR3000 and then run them in the background and play along with them with the acoustic.

b) Purchase a rack-mount tone generator that could play SMFs and mute the lead and play over them with the acoustic.

c) Purchase a cheaper ($2500) SEM Ciao reedless accordion and an older arranger module like the Korg i40m.

d) Use MP3s. ARGHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm at a loss here. There aren't any really great solutions for an accordion OMB. That Petosa/XD3 setup was supposed to be State of the Art and it was comical. I would LOVE to buy a Tyros and pre-program the Styles but lugging a keyboard around to each gig and setting it up behind me is not ideal. A module would be much better as I could rack it and set it up quickly. It also would keep my differentiation as an accordionist and not a keyboardist.

I sure wish Yamaha, Korg or Roland made a nice rack-mount arranger module. Orla and Ketron make them but I'm done with those companies for reasons I won't go into here.

Then there are the MP3s. Or maybe even a laptop with some type of cheaper tone generator using Van Basco.

Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

Thank you.

Tommy

Well, there's no rack-mount arrangers but plenty of table-top models like the Yamaha QY-series. Honestly I would go with a sound module/SMF player like an old Yamaha QY-70 or a Roland SD-30 (I've started many OMB's with these). Or a laptop with a GM softsynth for SMF playback. That would allow you to use any accordian or whatever for the lead instrument.

12inch laptop with half rack GM sound module. both store in small case with room for your usual gig sheets or whatever.

If you plan/want to carry the acoustic around, there are a number of midi systems that can be added to your acc without interferring with the acoustic/reeds. Some will control up to 8 midi channels (3 poly, 1 mono, 2 LH bass, 2 LH chords). Sequencers, rhythm units etc can be controlled from the box and footswitches. I have heard very nice performances on setups like this.

If the attraction to you and your playing is centered on the accordion, and you add keyboards, carrying that much stuff around can get old really quick.

If you feel at home, doing your 'thing' on the accordion, I would look deeper into those alternatives.

I think there are a variety of things that can be done using the acc but its based on your time-frame and budget you set.

I don't know where you are located. If in the Chicago area, the Chicago Accordion Club meets tonight. If in the Phoenix area, the Arizona Accordion Club meets tonight. I know people at both who are doing midi accordion stuff and they also perform at some of the meetings. They can talk your ear off if your interested.

I'm on the day job now but if you will be pursuing the accordion route, send email to my email (in profile) and I can get you some more details and names that may help.

Whatever way you decide to go, best wishes.

Ed

One possibility is a Roland FR-5 or FR-7 MIDI accordian used as a controller with a software arranger, ala Frank Rosenthal. I think Frank uses a desktop computer, but laptops and the like can be used for gigging.

Option (a) sounds good to me (but I'm biased). Get a PSR3000 - I'm not sure the Tyros extras are things you would use - and playback SMFs from the Smartmedia card. If you get a 128meg card you shouldn't run out
of space too fast. It's easy to edit midi files to suppress the lead line; also I've set the "Other tracks" button on my 2k to suppress track 4 as well, as a backup "lead mute" button!

There's and interesting midi file player available in the UK, the "OKYWeb" which uses compactflash storage. Details here: http://www.bck.co.uk/. However I suspect it is only 32 note poly.

I think this is the manufacturers web page: http://www.okyweb.com/. It's in Italian, however!

Hi Tommy - I think you really need to consider what you are trying to achieve.

The problem I presume for you is that the XD3 didn't give you the kind of styles that you like or play. Whereas for me it is great because the styles are much more "in yer face" which I appreciate for my gigs. I have a Tyros and an XD3 module and both are great at what they do. I haven't had the Tyros long and havem't had much chance to tweak it yet but I'm hoping I can get a much more punchier sound from the Rock/Pop/Disco/Blues/Country and Latin styles. However, when it comes to Ballads/NewWave/Ballroom/Standards/Jazz/Showtunes and more Traditional music the Tyros really shines.

Likewise the trumpets and electric guitars on the Tyros don't hold a candle to the Ketron ones and the electric pianos are better on the Tyros etc.

I guess they don't make the perfect arranger and possibly Frank's solution would be the best in the long term but I suspect it may be a steep learning curve for most people to go that route - I know it would be for me.

There are plenty of past and present modules you can try from Solton/Ketron, Korg, Orla, Roland and Gem before you start humping keyboards you 'aint gonna play.

Let us know if you find a good solution as I know a lot of people who gig with a midi accordian and an old Solton MS40 or Roland RA modules.

KF

Yes, I've been able to use the lh buttons on an ELKA midi accordion ctlr to control the One Man Band (OMB71) arranger software on a PC. You can run OMB on a laptop and have it play thru a module. At least then you'd have the ability to 'arrange' your performances live (repeats, multiple choruses) rather than having to follow an mp3 or SMF.

If you go this route, you may want to check out the hi end sound modules such as the Korg Triton rack, Yamaha Motif rack, and Roland xv5050 rack. These may have better sound quality than the table top midi modules (SC88, MU100) that are marketed as playback modules.

Incidently, speaking of Petosa Millennium and Ketron, I was out last night being entertained by a guy playing dinner dance style music (standard ballads, jazz, swing ,latin stuff) on a Petosa Millennium with a Ketron X4, going thru a Bose L1 Cylindrical Radiator. He had a drummer though, so he was not using electronic rhythms.

I walked in and was at the back of the room. The sound was mellow and clear. Not loud, but full. I could not tell that he was playing a midi-reedless unit until he kicked in some other instrument sound combinations. With that Bose system, it was a quality combination. If I was playing to a group wanting that style of music, I would have been proud to be putting out that sound (proud to be that good of a player too). I'm sure the setup is pricey but this guy was older than me and only a fraction of my size. When he finished, he packed up in minutes and carried the stuff off, all by himself!

Ed

Thank you so much everybody for the replies.

I may have just stumbled upon my answer in my last couple of days of research!

Roland will release the DR-880 drum and bass machine in two weeks. It has 500 patterns and uses all of the bass and drum samples of their SRX cards.

You can program in the chord recognition (no realtime arrangement) and store up to 100 songs.

This thing is perfect for me. I really want my acoustic accordion to be the center of my performances. I really only need drums and a nice upright bass sound. All of the other instruments really just took away from my accordion playing.

This unit is $450 street. I can sit back and have a beer as I program and store all of my chord changes for the standards I play, and then just use it as a drum machine for the obligatory polkas and older Italian tunes. 100 songs is plenty for me.

You can even use USB for playing SMFs but if I program all the changes in myself (complete with intros/fills/multiple patterns/endings)I can alleviate the need for SMFs.

Sure it's lacking a lot of functionality for the dedicated arranger folks but I think it's the answer I have been looking for. Saves me from purchasing a $3000 Midi Accordion and a $1500 antiquated arranger module. Also allows me to NOT bring a laptop with me to performances - something I personally was dreading.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions.

Tommy

sounds very confusing but Good Luck with it! Let us know how it works out.

Tommy,
It doesn't sound much different than going the MP3 route that you had "ARGHHHHHHHHHHH".

Don't know how much cash that you want to put out but 1 more thing to look into is Baldoni's custom sounds and rhythms pre-setup in an x4.
UltimateBB.com

I am an accordion enthusiast myself. As Donny (DNJ) said, keep us updated.

It's a little different than the MP3 route because I can customize my own arrangements, fills, etc. Kind of like Band in a Box, where you enter in the chords and select a pattern/chain of patterns. Also, it's just bass and drums - no other instruments which I think the mp3s would have.

And it uses all of the SRX sounds. I have always loved Roland's SRX expansion boards (including the incredible Complete Orchestra) and from the demos I've heard of the DR-770 and the 880 the bass and drums should be incredible.

Should take me a couple of beers and around 5 songs a night to put in all the changes. I should be ready to roll in a couple of weeks.

I will definitely post some mp3s of the new combo.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions.

Tommy

Tommy,
Looking forward to MP3s (even with the accordion alone)

Good Luck!
Ed

Great to see other people play midi accordions!
I too use a midi accordion with a roland800 real time arranger, plus now the new Bose Pas speaker system.
My Roland800 is great, but I would like to use other interactive styles. Midi files are to restrictive for me. I saw that ketron has a style works 2000 that claims being able to take other styles for any system and I could play them in my Roland 800 as a user style(real time arranger). Have any of you guys tried this and does it realy work this way?

John R.

What styles are you in need of?

I can email you some styles that will sound great on your RA 800..

Fran,
Thanks! I'll e-mail you on this.
John

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Accordionist:
[B]Greetings all -


...I have a really nice acousitc accordion that I would like to use as the centerpiece of my setup...
Tommy

Okay Tommy,
It's been about a year with your new rig. How is it going and exactly what equipment are you using? I play through a Korg i40M with hard drive - holds about 7,000 files, SMF's and/or styles - not that I'll ever have that many. About half of my files are Band in a Box. Over the years I've been hearing about and seeing folks using mp3, lap-tops and any variety of modules and software. Each time I'm tempted to give a new system a whirl. But the i40M has limitations but is working for me, just need to upgrade the hard drive.
I'd really like to know how you're making out by now.
Jerry

Sorry for the delayed reply!

My how things have changed!

I sold my entire MIDI accordion rig. The Petosa Millenium and my Ketron XD3 arranger. I loved a lot of things about it but in the end it was crippling my advancement. I just was wallowing in the same old songs, not playing the accordion bass other than triggering chords with two-fingered left hand stabs.

And audiences never came up and asked me about my setup. I think (MY opinion) they thought it was all electronic. It's weird when an accordion plays a sax sound.

I went to acoustic only. I bought a new Exclesior 960 with the money I sold my MIDI rig with. I have never been happier.

I still frequent this forum every day. I am still learning so much from everyone here. I will by a high-end arranger. This TYROS2 has me completely excited. I'm even thinking about using it with my accordion on a gig but it seems cumbersome. It would be easier to just use a midjay for midi sequences or music file playback.

Take care.

Tommy

Did you ever try the Roland V-Accordion?
I don't think it's weird when it plays sax, or violin or flute or...
On the contrary I find that the possibilty of controlling the expressiveness of these sounds using the bellows that V-Accordion has, gives them a sense of reality that is difficult to achieve even with the best synths.


[This message has been edited by o3bor (edited 09-26-2005).]

Looked heavily at the V-accordion. Joined the Yahoo user group. Asked a ton of questions. Listened to factory demos as well as user demos. Watched the NAMM video.

I just couldn't justify $6000+ for an instrument with such limited MIDI capability and so few built-in sounds. You can add a tone module but now you're bring two boxes to every gig again. You could buy two Tyros2 for that price.

The bellows are stiff and a couple users that bought them sold them within 6 months. I know a dealer in Michigan that has one for sale for $4k that somebody traded in.

It's simply not worth the price to me. It's a botique item. I had the same sounds (plus about 1000 more!) in my $1000 Fantom XR rack module. Add that to a cheap SEM CIAO for $3K and you're still at just over half the price of a new V-accordion.

I love the V-accorion concept and that a big manufacturer showed some interest in the instrument. I personally believe it will fade into oblivion within a year. I noticed that the Yahoo group went from 20 posts a week to two posts in the last three months.

Tommy

Nice 960 picture Fran! Thanks!