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#65363 - 03/12/06 02:52 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3825
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Hi Rikki
I have given up un the KN7000 as controller for reasons you have stated. I am using my little Oxygen 8, until I can get my CME VX. The KN is a wonderful arranger, and does it very well. So be it. I will use the Receptor in the band for lead voices until I load in some arranger VST'S.

It can hanle single,multy's, and separate apps like Kontact,Garrison, etc., which are programs in themselves. You have to load banks of GM patches beforehand, and save them in one of the 16,000 slots(banks,not patches)available. I am not sure on some of the VST's mentioned above, if you have to do that. These operate within their own hierarchy. Some,I believe, call up their own banks. The question of Colussus is one I had about streaming. One of the guys said the intial attak is in ram, and then it streams. I think Frank also mentioned it would not be fast enough some performance situations. I am assuming this is good for lead voices.

Here again, I am just venturing forth, and don't have the proper software to evaluate the performance. I am just careful about what I buy. You can sink a fortune between, Collusses, Ivory, Garratin, B4, etc.

As Frank(Godfather) said, you can invest as much as a top arranger, and have superior quality forever without trading boards. You can also have a setup like he has, and spend much more. That is what is good about the software approach. You can start off small, if you wish, and build. Whenever new software comes out, or if there is an update, one can always keep current.

I am deciding on software, and will know more soon.

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Centerpoint Space Station

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#65364 - 03/13/06 08:28 PM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Thanks Bernie,
software sounds definately seems the way to go in the future with the price of some of it, you definately need to choose carefully. Please keep us informed on your progress.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie9:
[B]Hi Rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#65365 - 03/14/06 07:11 PM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3206
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Bernie, you have my interest. Before the Kn1000 keyboard came out I went to a local music store and sat with a controller hooked up to five Kurzwell tone modules. One for pianos, one for strings, brass, guitars and misc. The best I have ever heard. The package was selling for $15,000, I did not buy it.

Sooooo, I bought a controller, Roland, and two sound modules. I controlled the modules with a volume for each unit. Later I used them with a KN2000. Lots of great sounds --- but a lot of work. They were all connected with midi wires.

That is the extent of my knowledge. My questions to you are:

1-Live playing ? How do I select variations, fill inns, pads, and all the things you do live when playing?
2-Does it play Karoake files?
3-Do you see the lyrics?
4-What do I lose by going the direction you have chosen?

I know so little about the terms you have used in your post, although they may be easy to you now. What?s VST ? things like that. As the saying goes, ?Start from number one?. If you have time.
The thought of keeping and only upgrading sounds so good.

Reserve a seat next to you for me at the forum. Ha ha ha

John C.




[This message has been edited by bruno123 (edited 03-14-2006).]

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#65366 - 03/15/06 12:24 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4533
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi John
The easiest way to think of a VST is as a Hardware Expander (Like the Kurtzweils you mentioned) but done entirely in software on a computer.
As an example, take the Pocket Calculator which has a hardware case and buttons, then have a look at the calculator on your computer, both do the same job, but the one on the computer is purely software.
The software route is the most probable future of Arranger Keyboards, and I am fortunate in that I play a Wersi Abacus keyboard which has the computer built, so I can run all the software instruments I need, with no wires or configuration to worry about. (Ok there is the mains lead)
Hope this helps.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#65367 - 03/15/06 12:51 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3206
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Bill, thank you. It seems simple enough, can't wait till I see what Bernie has. There is enough being said about this new technology and the future to have my interest.
Thanks again, John C.

PS, I had one of the first Wersi Abacus keyboard made -- beautiful, but so unfriendly. I hear the keyboard is now in the $6,000 to $9,000 now.

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#65368 - 03/15/06 02:33 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3825
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Hi John
Bill has a performance platform built in. I can't afford his rig. This means what he has at his fingertips, I would have to program a controller keyboard for. Eventhen, there would be parameters not accessable. It is a fine board, and one of the two pioneers in computer music.

However, everything has advantages and disadvantages. Mine is a double rack space roadworthy,rackmounted unit (16lbs), requiring an 8 lb controller. It is Linux based, non proprietary,167 gig w/1 1/2gig ram. This simply means that I can take it on the road, and have the capacity to house the largest sample libraries, and arrange about 4 million patches, or 16 banks of 8 multi's(multiple patch congigurations)loaded into ram at any given time. I can save 16,000 presets(registrations) . I can play 57 instruments at one time, with chosen effects. I can host other programs like Kontact, which has it's own OS.

It being Linux based, programmers are coming onboard because that don't have to contend with proprietary restrictions. This is a new flavor of an older concept; to provide the capacity,non-obsolescence, and versatility of a computer, packaged in a rackmounted unit with a great graphic interface.

Now, the disadvantages pertain mostly to one man arranger performers. No, it doesn't do Karaoke, email, and solitaire. At least not on the programs that came with the unit. It will respond to program changes with GM programs, or you build your own banks in SMF with the greatest samples available. I have ordered Collossus, which has a huge collection of the greatest live samples , and it includes a GM section. I ordered B4'2, a great Hammond B3 program.
You can split any patch into any zone, as well as manipulate the ADSR, transp,etc,etc.

Bear in mind that this is not primarily an arranger module, but there are many programs already out, and more coming, that would lend itself to this. The main disadvantage is being slower in making changes on the fly. This is where an arranger shines. On the otherhand I can easily exceed the quality of sound found on the major arrangers, and play an orchestra with on finger.

In conclusion, I am barely aware of all the capabilities before me, and will happily use my good old KN7000 for what it does best. As time goes on more programs will be available for us arranger guys.

It is doubtful that I can get my programs in a learned in time for the Jam. We'll see.
I don't even have a controller yet, except an Oxygen 8, 25 note job. I haven't even programmed it.
Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Centerpoint Space Station

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#65369 - 03/15/06 06:27 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Hey guys - I'm even further back than John C and wish I was coming to the Jam to see what Bernie's on about - tell me do you use your fingers on the ivories with all this stuff or does it do it all for you?
Rog
_________________________
Roger M

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#65370 - 03/15/06 06:37 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3825
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Hi there Cheeky Boy
I'll have you know that I not only play everything myself, but have to control all parameters by remote control.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Centerpoint Space Station

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#65371 - 03/15/06 10:19 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4533
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Quote:

PS, I had one of the first Wersi Abacus keyboard made -- beautiful, but so unfriendly. I hear the keyboard is now in the $6,000 to $9,000 now.[/B]


Hello John
Not sure about he US, but here in the UK the Abacus costs 4890, however since 2003 most people go for the Ikarus which is half the weight of the Abacus, (The Abacus is Essentially a single manual Verona Organ, Hence the weight) has 76 notes and has virtually all the features of the Abacus but costs only 3900.
Much has changed as the OAS software has developed, and I must admit I always found OAS easier to use then other keyboards, (But then I built and played Wersis in the 80s) if you follow this link http://www.worldofoas.co.uk/issues.htm you can download a magazine which has a brief history of OAS (Can you spot the version you had) and also includes details of OAS 7. (The latest version) I currently run OAS 6 (But started off with OAS 4) and will be updating to OAS 7 a bit later in the year.
Enjoy.

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 03-15-2006).]
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#65372 - 03/15/06 10:42 AM Re: KN7000 and Muse Receptor
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3206
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Quote:
Originally posted by RMepstead:
Hey guys - I'm even further back than John C and wish I was coming to the Jam to see what Bernie's on about - tell me do you use your fingers on the ivories with all this stuff or does it do it all for you?
Rog


Rog, the last time I saw Bernie play he was scratching his backside with his left hand and playing with his right hand so this my be just what he needs.

Ops, Sorry Bernie, John C.

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