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#62702 - 02/26/06 06:29 AM JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
kn7 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 129
In COMPOSER, I would like to put a VARIATION together with another VARIATION, making it not only longer but having the freedom to copy measures in different places in the length of the VARIATION. I hope I have made myself clear.

Let me spell it out for you. A style has generally 4 measures and you have 4 variations. In COMPOSER, I want to join any two together to make it an 8 measure variation. I realize that I can change the amount of measures in a variation up to 16 but this won't help in joining two or even up to 4 variations together. The problem I find is that trying to put a variation to another, all one does is replace the variation - you don't add to it, regardless of putting in the extra measures to take care of it. It goes back to the 4 measures you are copying. There should be a way to do this. It would be very beneficial to adding fill-ins to the variation, as well.

I think Alec covered this several years ago. Alec, where are you?! I want to be able to do this.

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#62703 - 02/26/06 10:24 AM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
cees Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 533
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi, I succeeded, but it was so timeconsuming, that one must be very passionated to do it (mmm, I was at that time ). Exactly like you I experimented to paste some nice fill-ins and intro's in one variation and didn't get out at first. Than I decided to do it in a very labourious way, for I didn't know better .
Maybe I can better wait if there is a simple way to do this. If there is no reaction and you are still interested, I am willing to share my way how I did it.
Maybe Alec knows a simple way and than my laborious way is not needed?
Greetings,
Cees
_________________________
Cees wink
Webmaster of Technics KN7000 Keso-songs, Keso-Café and Keso-Jukebox. You're welcome to visit http://www.keso.nl

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#62704 - 02/26/06 10:51 AM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4695
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
OK, here a try.
1-Record a Technics sequence using both variations.
2-Record the Technics into a Midi file -this can be donme with the Technics keyboard.
3-Then select tracks of the accomp. and record them into a style.

This is a rough idea but i think it is the way to go. I have not done this myself.

John C.

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#62705 - 02/26/06 11:12 AM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
cees Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 533
Loc: The Netherlands
Correct John, good thinking; basicly I did it as you described.
1. I copied the desired styles to a disc.
2. Used 'COPY A SINGLE COMPOSER' to choose a specific intro/fill
3. Loaded it to COMPOSER-MEMORY (VAR1, VAR2 etc.)
4. Then record a song with the VAR1, VAR2 changements
5. Converted it into SMF (NX)
6. Using that sequence I deleted the not wanted measures
7. Then 'SEQUENCER TO COMPOSER' copy
and you have one composerstyle-variation,
8. and some tweaking to do maybe

pfeeewwww
Hope you love your keyboard still afterwards
Cees

[This message has been edited by cees (edited 02-26-2006).]
_________________________
Cees wink
Webmaster of Technics KN7000 Keso-songs, Keso-Café and Keso-Jukebox. You're welcome to visit http://www.keso.nl

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#62706 - 02/26/06 02:00 PM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
kn7 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 129
Thanks, John and Cees. Let me understand this. You want me to take Variation 1 and 2, following each other recorded in SEQUENCER to make a total of 8 measures, since each Variation is 4 measures and then copy this from SEQUENCER to COMPOSER? If this is so, what tracks would I use, all of them or just the APC track? This is confusing as hell. I have never been successful using SEQUENCER to COMPOSER.

kn7

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#62707 - 02/26/06 03:15 PM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
I covered this type of composer editing many years ago in the 6000 book, over several chapters step by step with many examples, for example:

First insert 4 new measures on to the end of the pattern, then copy the first 4 measures into the last 4 measures. Then edit the last 4 measures to make them different to the first 4 measures to make a brand new 8 measure pattern.

Now you could take an entirely new pattern track from the easy composer library for example, save it in composer C and copy the track from composer C to a single track, say accomp 5, of composer A making a new variation, using page 2 of the copy. Delete the first 4 measures of the new track leaving the new accompaniment playing for measures 5 to 8 for the new pattern, making the second half of the 8 measure pattern different to the first half.

Now if you want to add a new variation or fills on to the end of an existing variation it can be done on page 2 by copying track by track but only from within the composer so if you use accomp5 to input a new track copied in from composer B or C, you then copy the relevant measures to measures 5 to 8 of another accomp track in composer A, but accomp 5 then cannot be used in the same way without further complication of using further composers B and C because it has been used as the transfer path.

So you use the sequencer, play or step record one 4 measure variation followed by the other in C major, then APC to SMF convert all 8 tracks, then SEQ to composer copy the 8 measures. A new 8 measure composer of exactly what you require!

The disadvantage of the sequencer method is you lose the balance information, so just adjust the internal composer balances to their previous levels etc in the Composer Part Setting page, and possibly any dsps or digital effects etc.

This was described in the book putting automatic fills within the composer pattern so you don't have to press a fill button, but is just as relevant for another variation.

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#62708 - 02/26/06 07:23 PM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
kn7 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 129
Thanks, guys. Glad you surfaced, Alec. Unfortunately, I don't have your book. Since I understand it is no longer available, I had always hoped the keyboard guru would come riding in on a white horse and hand me an autographed copy. Fat chance.

Guys, I'm getting nowhere. Here is what I did:

I brought up Easy Record and recorded Variation 1 and Variation 2 in SEQUENCER. I then went to SEQ TO COMPOSER COPY and this is where I'm lost. I changed the amount of measures to 8 on the left side of the screen, since I recorded 8. I see the names of parts that are in COMPOSER on the right but I don't know what to assign to what track. I did what I thought might work by putting DRUM1 to Track 1, DRUM2 to Track 2, and ACCOMP5 to what I thought would be Track 3 and worked my way up with the rest. I then pressed OK. Going to COMPOSER, I hear nothing on any track.

Alec, your first paragraph is what I said I did in my top post. I find that you don't have to copy the last 4 measures when you increase the variation to 8. It automatically repeats the 4 measures starting in measure 5.

Copying the same variations in Memory B or C to make changes in Memory A, I have missed your point. I tried it. Anytime I try to add a variation to another, I get the same amount of measures. Too bad it reverts to the measures you copy. I wish one could keep whatever is assigned in the pattern to copy to.

I hope I have made myself clear as to what I am doing wrong. Why am I not getting any sound in COMPOSER when I supposedly have copied the tracks from SEQUENCER? It seems to accept what I have done when I press OK. It immediately takes me into COMPOSER and I see the beats moving but no sound. The volume of tracks are up.

Sorry this thick head isn't getting it.

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#62709 - 02/26/06 07:37 PM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
kn7 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 129
It's me, again. Alec, you said and I quote, "So you use the sequencer, play or step record one 4 measure variation followed by the other in C major, then APC to SMF convert all 8 tracks, then SEQ to composer copy the 8 measures. A new 8 measure composer of exactly what you require!"

I don't understand the "APC to SMF convert all 8 tracks" - sorry. Tell me what to do after I have recorded Variation 1 and 2 in SEQUENCER.

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#62710 - 02/26/06 10:12 PM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
The Leans Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, England
Hi,

Is it just possible, that if you tell us 'WHY' you want to do this, and 'HOW' you intend to use it, more of us might be able to assist. ?

The difference between sequencing and actual 'live' playing, is such, that the technique of doing something, changes from one circumstance to another. !! - So, why not let us know precisely what you intend doing with this piece of wizardry. - Cheers,

Colin.

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#62711 - 02/27/06 01:35 AM Re: JOINING VARIATIONS TOGETHER-CAN IT BE DONE?
cees Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 533
Loc: The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by kn7:
Thanks, John and Cees. Let me understand this. You want me to take Variation 1 and 2, following each other recorded in SEQUENCER to make a total of 8 measures, since each Variation is 4 measures and then copy this from SEQUENCER to COMPOSER? If this is so, what tracks would I use, all of them or just the APC track? This is confusing as hell. I have never been successful using SEQUENCER to COMPOSER.

kn7

Hi KN7, can you describe exactly which var's, fill-ins or .. you whish to 'paste'/make together? Then I will try to guide you step-by-step if you agree?
Cees
_________________________
Cees wink
Webmaster of Technics KN7000 Keso-songs, Keso-Café and Keso-Jukebox. You're welcome to visit http://www.keso.nl

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