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#506978 - 10/31/22 08:17 PM
Re: Backing tracks, pre-arranged sets, etc.
[Re: cgiles]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14220
Loc: NW Florida
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Well, Chas, it’s throwing red meat at a wolf if you think that a discussion (and video) squarely aimed at music that a) none of us listen to and b) has nothing to do with how any of us perform isn’t going to spill over to include what we actually do!
To be honest, your words ‘much of which could be applies to arranger performances’ is a good case for it being you that missed the point of the video. Rick Beato is a studio pro, hasn’t got jack to do with what we do, and pretty much aims his remarks at a market segment none of us have anything to do with, and if we ever did, it was long before tracks became prevalent.
Sure, you want a discussion about pro touring bands using tracks, have at it. But how were you expecting this to go once you went ‘much of which could be applies to arranger performances’?
I see absolutely no difference between a signed pro touring band using audio tracks, or a sequencer or an arranger. If it walks like a duck….
But having brought up that this video has any relevance for arranger players, perhaps it needs clarifying exactly how? Because I see no connection whatsoever.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#506980 - 10/31/22 09:27 PM
Re: Backing tracks, pre-arranged sets, etc.
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Diki, I'm not going to spar with you. I posted a video that everyone but you thought was interesting and educational and historical. But of course, as usual, you just couldn't resist making a simple video post something else. You seem obsessed with showing the rest of us what a superior intellect you are and of course, how you're never wrong about anything. Whatever the situation, no matter how innocent, you always seem to be able to make it into a controversy. I've never once ever heard you say, "you know what, maybe you're right", and frankly, I never expect to. For the person who always has to be right, humility is not their vocabulary. And, IN MY OPINION, this is precisely the type of personality who should NEVER be in charge of anything. We've seen how that turns out.
I think the unrelenting attack on the Ketron Event even before any detailed specifications had been released is a good example of creating controversy where none existed, and especially by someone who, by their own admission, had absolutely no intention of purchasing one. We suffered through a ten+ year crusade about the chord sequencer, and yet when they did appear on other manufacturer's boards with even better implementation than the Roland's, I have yet to see or hear anyone (at least in our group) use it. Much ado about nothing? or just a feature that was important to you but of limited interest to the rest of the arranger community.
Look, we all know you're a smart guy. You don't have to prove it in every post. It can get really annoying (at least to me). Hey, no hard feelings but you're not the only one with a working brain. I mean, we actually agree on most things (socially, politically, and musically), it's just how that knowledge/wisdom is imparted. I sincerely hope other members don't see this as a 'war' where they have to choose sides. Sadly, that seems to be the way things are these days. Hope that changes soon.
chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#506982 - 11/01/22 04:48 AM
Re: Backing tracks, pre-arranged sets, etc.
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2206
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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I think Chas and Diki make some really good posts on this forum and I understand both points of view but I also think Diki's post above has some very good comments within. Posters don't have to adhere to what the OP had in mind... our minds wander and we post what comes to mind. If arranger thoughts come to mind, well, it's an arranger forum, it's somewhat natural.
As for me, if I go to a concert of a famous band, I don't want them using tracks. Plenty of bands are good enough to pull off a live performance and slay us with their talent. If the song is a bit different from the recorded song, so be it. I understand "they sounded just like the record" but it might be interesting to hear another take! Ever been to a Dylan concert? Of course, he is the extreme... some of the songs might not come off so great but sometimes, they create an amazing, spontaneous rendition!
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~ ~ ~ Bill
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#506993 - 11/02/22 12:18 PM
Re: Backing tracks, pre-arranged sets, etc.
[Re: cgiles]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14220
Loc: NW Florida
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I’m still waiting to hear what the hell the video had with relation to us arranger players. You know, if offered with the specific words that it did have relevance…
I got no problem with what Rick Beato says about artists using tracks, and I think he’s pretty much on the money given the artists he refers to and the situations they use them in. But I still think that’s got nothing to do with us. I’d sure like to hear your thoughts about how it pertains to us, seeing as you say it does.
And sorry you don’t like being debated, Chas, but if you want to stick something out there and have no dissent, best of luck finding anywhere on the web that’s going to happen. To clear something up, I’m not in charge of ANYTHING, I’m just posting as any other member here. Don’t let the green tag fool you. I don’t edit anyone’s post, I’m not going to ban anyone, never have, never will. If we get something that turns nasty and personal, it will be referred to Kerry before anything permanent is done.
My only real ‘moderation’ duties here lie over at the Roland sub-forum (the only reason I came back after Roland-arranger.com closed its doors) and keeping an eye out for personal attacks and egregious language. So what has led you to believe I’m ‘in charge’ beats me.
But this isn’t an echo chamber, that’s what happened when the last batch of old timers left. They didn’t want to hear anything other than agreement. Do you find yourself in their midst now? I don’t recall that being your attitude at the time…
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#506999 - 11/02/22 01:55 PM
Re: Backing tracks, pre-arranged sets, etc.
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5518
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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That sounds pretty darn good, AJ
Bernie
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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#507001 - 11/02/22 02:26 PM
Re: Backing tracks, pre-arranged sets, etc.
[Re: cgiles]
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Moderator
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Posts: 3592
Loc: Middletown, DE
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#507002 - 11/02/22 05:47 PM
Re: Backing tracks, pre-arranged sets, etc.
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15569
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Wow! Now I know I'm really old, especially when I can relate to everything Bernie posted. I was the first performer in this part of the country to use a Roland Programmable drum machine while playing my 12-string Yamaha guitar and singing. That was back in the early 1960s, when Carol and I first met. She thought I looked a lot like James Dean, and I did my best to live up to that reputation. ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) Her mom thought I looked pretty snazzy in my Maryland State Police uniform, which put me on her good side. Ironically, when I switched from the guitar and drum machine to the Yamaha PSR-500 arranger keyboard, at first, my audiences thought I was cheating, lip syncing and doing Karaoke. It was not until they discovered that it was me doing the playing and singing, no tracks or MP3s, that those dance floors filled and the crowd and I were essentially one. I guess that's why I enjoy Jimmy Buffett concerts - mistakes and all. ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) Back to the treadmill, Gary ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/cool.gif)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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