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#506022 - 06/25/22 11:04 PM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4266
Loc: Norway
Found this link at Korg Forum.

Edit:
Looks like they have edited and removed the PA5X models from the webshop.
The price was listed like this:
88 keys: €4999
76 keys: €4599
61 keys: €4299

( Genos is at 'normal price' €5039, now 12% off to €4399 )


Edited by Gunnar Jonny (06/26/22 10:30 PM)
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#506032 - 06/26/22 07:02 PM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
vangelis Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 416
Loc: FLORIDA
I wish they made them lighter, ROLAND had the right idea but are not even close when it comes to features of the KORG
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Currently main setup on stage are:KORG PA4X,PA1000

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#506037 - 06/27/22 11:53 AM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13785
Loc: NW Florida
I think for that the viability of the 88, possibly a more important stat might be its weight.

Korg may have missed out on the trend towards ultra portable keyboards for its aging demographic. Newer construction techniques have resulted in amazingly light keyboards that don’t compromise rigidity and stability of the keybed and controls, but all of the leaked photos look a very similar construction to the PA4X line, which topped 35lbs for the 76.

Korg’s current TOTL stage piano (meant for gigging pros, not home use) tops out at 58lbs (ouch!). Marry that to the weight of the hardware of a PA4X and I wonder if Korg may have missed the window. I might have lugged one of those around 20 years ago, I lugged my 45lbs G70 76 for a decade, but I am to the point where my 20lbs BK-9 in a hard case is about as much as I want to move daily.

Don’t forget, a soft case is not going to be adequate for an 88, especially as expensive and festooned with top panel controls and a touch screen that need protection. So add probably at least 30lbs to the weight of whatever the 88 PA5x comes in at for a case.

Now we’re getting into hernia country!

There ARE some pretty lightweight decent feeling stage pianos, but Korg don’t make them, afaik. Their lightweight grands have lightweight actions, imho.

Time will tell if the 88 meets its likely users’ needs. But I have a nasty suspicion that most of us that would love to play one won’t want to lug it around…
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#506060 - 06/30/22 01:21 PM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13785
Loc: NW Florida
Well, the specs are out. Must admit I am pleasantly surprised that the 88 comes in under 45lbs (20.1 kg). That’s the same as the G70 76 (and less than the 61 E80!).

Perhaps for younger, fitter guys it’s a good choice?! The pianos seem decent in the official demos, a bit less Korg-like than the PA4X. And the mention of customizable chord recognition and a reference to a mode derived from modern jazz pianists LH chord shapes might make this the go-to choice for the gigging pianist.

My only reservation would be what it always is… an 88 fully weighted action is perfect for pianos, but that’s about it. If you want to play organ or Clavinet or synths, let alone the myriad of acoustic and orchestral sounds, it’s a lot harder with a fully weighted 88.

I guess it boils down to whether you intend to play piano the vast majority of the time, or it’s just one of many sounds you’ll play. Personally, I lead on piano less than half the time, and would always go with a 76. At least with that I have the option of putting a lightweight fully weighted 88 underneath the 76 as needed. There are several well regarded 88’s that clock in around the 25lbs mark…

But yeah… if I were a current Havian user or Clavinova pro pianist arranger playing gigging musician, I’d be looking at the PA5x 88 as the current king of the hill..! 🎹😎

By a VERY wide margin!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506064 - 06/30/22 05:24 PM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 758
Loc: North Texas, USA
Hi Diki! Can you please tell me which video or spec page talks about the customizable chord recognition?

I just spent almost an hour going through the performance guide. The chord recognition modes are identical to the existing Pa4X, which was ironically LESS customizable than the Pa3X and its predecessors. Because for some reason, Korg dropped its venerable "Fingered 2" mode in the last transition from the Pa3X to the Pa4X, and it has not returned.

Regarding jazz chord shapes, I think what you're referring to is the "Advanced" mode, which does indeed recognize rootless fingerings. This Advanced mode is very similar to Yamaha's "AI Fingered" mode, which also recognizes some rootless combinations. I don't play much jazz or use rootless fingerings. So personally I judge both of these systems inferior to Roland's Chord Intelligence, with momentary activation of bass inversion (as implemented on the FP-50, FP-80 style pianos, etc.) The late great Roland, RIP.

The unknown here is that the Pa5X performance guide presently available for download is "only" 742 pages. Meanwhile, the lone user manual for the Pa4X is 1148(!) pages. So what's missing? The Pa4X manual includes a few chapters describing in-depth style and sound editing, etc. If at some point in the future Korg releases a separate Pa5X editing guide, perhaps it will illustrate that it IS possible to change how the arranger interprets various combinations of keys pressed by the player. Which as you might recall, is a feature I've been suggesting for quite some time!

In the meantime, if you can point me to a specific video segment, I would be very grateful! Thanks!!

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#506079 - 07/04/22 10:23 AM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13785
Loc: NW Florida
Not sure where I saw it. Been through too many videos to remember. I may have misheard about the customizable chord recognition.

However, ‘rootless’ chord shapes are simply another shortcut way of calling chords (especially more complex jazz chords) but with one major advantage over Fingered modes…. Jazz pianists have already learned it and use it while playing in combos. It isn’t one of the stupid one and two finger modes that have zero use on anything other than arrangers (and one particular brand at that, as there’s very little standardization of shortcut fingerings) and if you actually heard what you played, it would be unmusical. Not so ‘rootless’ voicings. Learn those, and you can sit in with a live trio and sound like quite the jazzer!

Hopefully there’s something buried in the menus about custom chord recognition, but I still encourage all to give up on unmusical shortcut chord shapes. They make you have to turn off any LH sounds (because things like the root and a half-step lower for a type of chord sounds terrible!). I am not a big jazzer, so rootless hasn’t been one of my go to choices, but I have NEVER used a shortcut method.

I just hope that the brief appearance of Pianist2 mode on the BK series gets a wider appreciation as a terrific way to play solo piano and get accurate chord recognition. No other arranger has ever had it.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506272 - 07/25/22 11:43 AM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Diki]
Ric4001 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 24
I would be curious to know what has been dropped from the PA4X. I have a 76 key PA4x. I'll keep that and buy a 61 key PA5X if there's some reason to keep the PA4X. Otherwise I'll sell it and go for a 76 key PA5X. My dealer says Korg has no idea when the 76 key version of the PA5X will ship, but my dealer already has the 61 key version in stock.

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#506273 - 07/25/22 01:42 PM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Ric4001]
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4266
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By Ric4001
I would be curious to know what has been dropped from the PA4X......


Hi.
There is a lot of posts about the PA5X at Korg Forum.
Both good and bad. Lots of disappointments to read about from the most experienced users.
Guess a couple of OS updates will fix most of it.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=90&sid=3715fb21d3485440e84bd35570b2805c
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#506279 - 07/27/22 06:45 PM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
vangelis Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 416
Loc: FLORIDA
Sound wise it sounds a PA4x with just more bells and whistles.
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Currently main setup on stage are:KORG PA4X,PA1000

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#506303 - 08/05/22 11:05 AM Re: Korg Pa5x [Re: Taike]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13785
Loc: NW Florida
I am definitely souring a little bit on the new Korg. At least until some major bugs are fixed, and some workflow improvements are added to the OS.

It turns out that the groundbreaking “play two styles at the same time“ feature has not yet been integrated with the songbook. Although you can select two styles to blend, and pick which parts of each you want to sound, there is no way currently to store this arrangement. There are also syncing issues and a variety of other niggles and problems.

So unfortunately, one of the primary advances in technology this arrange offers is very much a work in progress. This is somewhat how I predicted, I don’t think that Korg fully understood the power and ramifications of this new system. It may be a while before the OS is modified to best leverage it.

I am not sure I would recommend this keyboard for a gigging musician at the moment, there seem to be some potentially showstopping issues. But, if you are a Home player, or a pro that can hang on to his old arranger until the new one is ready for prime time, it is definitely worth getting a jump on the future.

As to it sounding fairly close to a PA4X, of COURSE it does! Can anyone tell me the last time an arranger came out that sounded absolutely nothing like the previous model? 😂
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