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#506207 - 07/16/22 12:08 PM My new PSR-3000 video
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 665
Loc: Russia
Greetings!

As I finally took my SX900 to a service hoping to get fixed "the noisy keyboard" problem, I had a reason to take my old PSR-3000 out of a bag and play it. 

Surely, PSR-3000 doesn't have a lot of new and useful sounds. In the same time, I noticed something, which I also noticed comparing it to PSR-S950 before, the overall sound feels a bit more "joyful" and "bright". As this is very subjective, I don't plan to go deeper about it...

As for the controls, I have to say that these plastic buttons proved to be more reliable than rubber ones on PSR-S950; they feel solid, yet not at all noisy.

Basically, so far I don't see any practical advantage of a touchscreen on SX900, in fact, it makes some adjustments rather uncomfortable; maybe just for typing names it's better, but as for other things, like muting parts, it's not very good.

While playing PSR-3000 I came up with this tune.



( https://youtu.be/uRMDYzfhtec )

Also, the joystick on SX900 instead of two wheels... makes it hard to fix "modulation"...

Frankly, I'm a bit confused. But still looking forward to get my SX900 back. But confused.

_


Edited by Kabinopus (07/16/22 03:38 PM)

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#506211 - 07/16/22 09:20 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13785
Loc: NW Florida
So far, I haven’t seen touch screens used the way that makes best use of them. We still get baked in layouts, as if they were actual buttons.

But the real strength of a touchscreen is that it is infinitely variable. There’s no reason why you can’t collect the buttons and sliders that YOU actually want onto one screen. Why manufacturers haven’t realized this is beyond me. Arrangers get more and more complex, but your interface is hard baked in, either by the button layout or the set in stone screen layout.

Now, for Yamaha, it’s early days. Genos and SX900 are the first of the breed, and I think Yamaha went far more for graphics eye candy that actual usefulness. Korg’s new arranger ups the game a bit, and in fairness, the old G70/E80 screen layout was good, not much eye candy, and a ton of stuff displayed well that is much harder to get to quickly in the BK series.

If Yamaha’s users universally gripe about the wasted screen real estate wasted on huge pictures of the instruments, perhaps they can change their philosophy. But complaining here and not directly to Yamaha don’t get it done!

Personally, I’d love to see a screen layout app. Pick what functions you want to see, discard the ones you don’t. A couple of custom screen layouts (along with the factory preset ones) ought to seriously improve ease of playing…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506216 - 07/17/22 11:50 AM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
ekurburski Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/17
Posts: 449
Loc: Mountain Home, AR
Remind me again why I should just stay wiyh my 3000.
_________________________
PSR 740,PSR 3000, Mirage, tx7, mp32, Pro Tools 10,11 SONAR, Reaper, BIAB 2020 and a pile of Computer Music mags w/disks
College student was working on Doctoral, Education Now just doing courses to do courses

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#506217 - 07/17/22 12:57 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: ekurburski]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13785
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By ekurburski
Remind me again why I should just stay wiyh my 3000.


Because your Mirage might get self conscious about its age without the 3000 for company? 😂

All joking aside, there’s really only one ‘good’ reason to upgrade… does the new keyboard immediately and with no extra work on your behalf help you play far better than you already can? 🎹😎

For me, as a serious fan of using chord sequencers to free up my left hand, I’d suggest that feature alone is worth the upgrade, but if you’re not a big bender user or a strong comper with the LH, it might not be that big a deal.

But all in all, I think there’s enough very significant progress between the 3000 and the SX for an upgrade to be worth the money (as you’ve already missed three or so generations of incremental progress). All the extra insert effects, Revo drum kits (quite the game changer to the overall punchlines of Yamaha styles), chord sequencer, etc. can make a significant change.

But…

Other than brand new styles, if you import your legacy data and just play that, you’re going to hear little difference. Until you edit all your old stuff to use the new sounds, new kits, insert effects on style Parts etc. you are still basically playing your old keyboard. I think this is why so many get a bit underwhelmed with newer arrangers… they’re still playing their old registrations and wondering why they aren’t hearing a massive improvement.

There’s no silver bullet. A new arranger means a boatload of work converting all your old stuff if you want to be wowed by how much better it sounds…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506218 - 07/17/22 02:08 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: ekurburski]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 665
Loc: Russia
Originally Posted By ekurburski
Remind me again why I should just stay wiyh my 3000.


I still haven't got my SX900 back, and I feel impulses to turn it on and play its electric piano sounds, and to listen to its jazz rhythms. However, when I did it not that long ago, I played it for 10 or 15 minutes, then I was doing some other business. There were times when I could play a new keyboard for hours, but when you go from a very entry level to more professional instruments there are indeed a lot to discover. I had a hope that new SX900 would make me to spend at least two hours a day straight with it, maybe I'm just getting too old to get so passionate or need to go back on caffeine...

Anyway, I'm glad that I didn't sell my PSR-3000. And have to say that although each new Yamaha arranger has almost all the "legacy" voices, and it supports any older style, it feels to me that each model has its own specific sound, so if you really like certain things about your keyboard, I wouldn't be 100% sure that it will be the same on a new one.

ekurburski, I see it's you birthday, so I wish you a Happy Birthday! piano

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#506219 - 07/17/22 11:48 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4878
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Kabinopus, I listened to your Psr 3000 recording, nice real nice. Less happening, it was clearer, it was good.

I am now a home player. My favorite keyboard was the Kn7000. My set-up started with the Kn2000; it stayed with me till now, on my Sx900. Speed is not important, no dancers, just me.
This is what is important to me:

It should not sound like an arranger keyboard. It should sound like REAL BAND. Keep in mind that I play older music, like big band; and any music that tells a story.
The death of the Organ:

As a piano tuner, I worked in many music stores; I got to hear sales people demoing organs. 9 ½ demoed the organ with an organ sound. At the Orlando, Florida organ concerts Wersi organ players demoed their organs as a live band. When you closed your eyes, you pictured a live trio, sixth, maybe a 12-piece band. I my set-ups with that in mind. Playing all the notes is a nice idea, but capturing the feel of the band/song is more important.

In a live band instruments change. Many times, the band volume meets that change. Example: a trumpet does not sound the same on all types of music. Ballad, mellow, Latin, sharp and high.
Listen, listen, create, and create. Do not make your arranger keyboard sound like an arranger keyboard.

There will be a second part on this subject shortly. Please keep in mind, this is meant to help, it is still only my opinion.
John C.

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#506220 - 07/18/22 09:01 AM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15367
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Well, old friend, that PSR-3000 still sounds great, and from my perspective, it was truly a workhorse of an arranger keyboard, and for many of us, it still is. I never had a button failure with either of my 3000s, but had to replace nearly all of the rubber buttons on my S-950 within the past year. Fortunately, I have access to a great, factory authorized technician who makes house calls at no extra charge. He was able to replace the buttons within a hour, the parts were not at all expensive, and they now function as good as the day the keyboard came out of the factory.

Earl, hang on to that 3000. As you can see from my Russian friend's video, it still sounds great and probably will continue to sound great for the next decade. Granted, not as many bells and whistles, but it has all the sounds that anyone could wish for and as you could hear from the video, they still sound very realistic.

Now, Diki honestly believes that an arranger keyboard does not sound as good as a live instrument, but here's where we disagree. If you recall, about 5 years ago, DNJ posted a video of a 6-piece band performing on stage, and during that video, each and every member of the band stopped playing their instrument, but the music continued just as if they were still playing. Finally, when the last player stopped playing and walked off stage, a curtain opened and there was a guy playing his Yamaha arranger keyboard, just the same as the band was playing live. NO ONE in the audience knew the difference! NO ONE!

As far as the humanizing, well, when I was performing in a band and playing my Yamaha 12-string guitar, I hated it when one of the band members strayed from the tempo, or cranked up the volume on his or her instrument thereby bypassing the mixer, and the other band members had to follow those changes. Either you can maintain good timing, or you cannot - some folks just cannot do this. As far as I am concerned, it's their problem - not mine. This was among the many reasons I went solo and never looked back. Now, don't get me wrong. I enjoyed performing in a 5-piece group, we had lots of nite club jobs that paid little of next to nothing back then, and we managed to keep in touch until most of them passed away. Only two of the original band members is still alive other than myself and he just turned 90. Yes, I was the youngster in the band. wink

All the best, and thanks for posting that video,

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (07/18/22 09:02 AM)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#506221 - 07/18/22 10:39 AM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13785
Loc: NW Florida
Gary, I think you are confusing ‘hamanizing’ with ‘playing badly’. No one was talking about speeding up, or playing too loud. No drum machine or any other gear has this as a feature.

And I’m sorry that you consider the occasional flaws in other players the reason to go solo. I’m hoping you aren’t considering that you were perfect! But did the other musicians you played with go solo to get away from YOUR mistakes?

Just because an audience couldn’t tell the difference between an arranger and a live band, the point wasn’t that untrained ears can’t tell. It’s whether WE can. Because we are the ones playing and listening to the arranger 24/7, the audience gets a few minutes, and ‘listening’ isn’t really the reason they are there. They want to dance. They want to eat. They want to drink. They want to chat up that pretty redhead… and, oh yeah, there’s some music going on. They don’t hear it be identical every time you play the same registration. They don’t hear the same fill night after night after night. They don’t hear the exact same baked in Intro every single time it gets played. But we do.

I can tell you, that video Donny posted didn’t fool me. It shouldn’t have fooled any decent musician.

It is considering that every single Part other than what we play as inconsequential that lessens us as musicians. No matter if it’s an arranger or a real band, what THEY play is as important as what we do.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506223 - 07/18/22 02:03 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6544
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
My favorite Biblical quote: "There is none so blind as he that WILL not see".

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#506225 - 07/18/22 11:54 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4878
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
So that I am not misunderstood: Kabinopus is one of my favorites. I love the way he plays, and how he expresses himself.

The purpose of my post is to share my opinion, hoping that I might add another dimension to his playing. I get that way when I care for someone. The title might be; How I program/use, my Yamaha Sx900.

John C.

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