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#503678 - 08/31/21 09:17 AM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5295
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I have just been asked to provide music in a rally for the same county commissioner, but instead of the wild west American Legion, it will be held at a more genteel restaurant where people of means frequent. Instead of western attire, I will switch to a Fedora and vest. I know I should have grabbed some of Gary's when he sold his. I presume to alter the playlist, cutting down on the country, and bringing a little culture into my act. I expect the ages will be from forty to eighty, and the atmosphere noisy.

My experience playing to kids in their forties and fifties is limited, and would appreciate any suggestions.


Edited by Bernie9 (08/31/21 09:19 AM)
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#503679 - 08/31/21 11:15 AM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7135
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Well said, Diki.

Often wished we could play a few gigs together.

Russ

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#503683 - 08/31/21 02:39 PM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2345
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Just had that conversation with a fellow musician. He obsesses about what to play for an event. I told him most people like the same crowd pleasers so just go with that. Unless your in specific situation it usually works fine,
His brother does a dueling piano show which is more humor that music and even though he's a pretty good player they stick to the tried and true
You can't re-educate an audience.
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Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#503684 - 08/31/21 05:44 PM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15179
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
The best advice I have is to play music that was popular when they were 15 to 25 years of age - works for me! smile

As for the vests, sorry you missed out, Bernie. I gave most of them away, along with some fantastic satin shirts and matching ties. Even gave away a couple of tuxedos, one black and one white (winter/summer). After I retired, I had some thoughts about being buried in a tux, but I have since donated my body to the University of Maryland School Of Medicine, Anatomy Division. Some medical students will get a first hand look at what a person does to abuse himself over the past 8 decades, then after a year, they cremate me and send me home in a box to be disposed of. Yep, I just cheated the undertakers! smile

Good luck,

Gary cool
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#503685 - 08/31/21 06:30 PM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bill Lewis]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4805
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Bernie, good post. Staying with the theme;
“Is Musicianship Dying?”
When I was playing gigs, a musician had to play Big Band; ballads, moderate and up tempo, Latin, Rhumba, Cha Cha, Tango, and Bosa Nova. Waltzes and polkas, Country, and some Jazz. (Improvising) and some R&R, and 50’s. I had to know my major and minor scales, arpeggios, chord inversions, and chord substitutions. How well they did all that was at question.

My students were not interested in all that they wanted to know three chords in a few keys, and a blues Scale. After 4 t0 6 months they started a band. This had it’s down side, but it also brought more emotion and excitement to their music; which was a big plus. I am not judging types of music; I feel it is all good.

To answer Bernie’s question, we would have to define Is Musicianship as the induvial sees it. If we do not include the Technical part of the player, then my answer is, Yes, it has. Only my opinion.

Playing with tracks sound fuller, and give you hands freedom, but it keeps you in the same grove each time you play the song. If I did not play Country, Rock, or Disco song well, I played the original recording; that was always accepted.

In my 50’s and 60’s I used programs like Sonar (Cakewalk) and the Kn7000 to create, it was fun. I do my best to use what ever the keyboard has to offer --- and play, and play my music.

Whatever happens, it’s still fun to play a keyboard, John C.

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#503687 - 09/01/21 07:22 PM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13367
Loc: NW Florida
Most people that think musicianship is defined by how many genres from their youth they can play well couldn’t put together a hip hop groove to save their lives, or know how to play a drop and build in a techno song, myself included..!

Musicianship is all too often defined by what we grew up listening to and enjoying. But it’s a little too easy to criticize newer forms while we have zero command of them.
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#503690 - 09/02/21 01:47 AM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5295
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I suppose the definition is , outside of the rudiments, subjective to a degree. However, I am speaking of lacking the most basic knowledge of theory. I am not saying musicianship is dead, but that it seems not to be considered as necessary, and snarkily speaking, I can see why. Compare the classical pianist that has studied his craft for years, to some of the 3 chord entrants today.

Exceptions noted.
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#503691 - 09/02/21 06:46 AM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2345
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Your right Bernie. A low percentage of musicians choose the long road of learning fundamental theory and choose the "look' I can play Smoke On the Water" after ONE lesson ! " This comes from my experience working in a music store. And sadly the music consuming public accepts it for the most part.

And I will borrow your tag line, Exceptions Noted
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#503693 - 09/02/21 09:06 AM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5295
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Thanks Bill
That is firsthand verification to me. I may come off sounding snobbish, but I am not, because times have changed, and with it the method of delivery and song creation, like EDM etc. I guess the kids today favor instant gratification. I remember my 15 yr old niece came to visit and was enamored by my music vocation. with multiple keyboards and all. I told her I would give her one if she promised to to invest the time and effort to learn it properly. She answered that a classmate can show her enough in a couple of days. That was the end of that,ha.
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#503694 - 09/02/21 10:52 AM Re: Is Musicianship Dying? [Re: Bernie9]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13367
Loc: NW Florida
There’s nothing ‘instant’ about being able to craft good EDM, hiphop etc..

Sure, you can craft a sound that will fool most over 60 codgers, but you’ll get a blank stare from kids who actually LIKE it!

Kind of like how it’s hard to create GOOD jazz or rock with an arranger. Sure, you’ll fool a few kids that don’t listen to the real thing, but not anyone who loves good jazz or rock!

I agree that harmonic complexity may have taken a backwards step, but rhythmical complexity has bounded forwards, layered loops and rhythmical arpeggios have made for a very difficult sound to emulate if you really don’t know what you’re doing (probably from not having listened to enough for it to have become ingrained).

Let’s face it, this is all just the musical equivalent of ‘Damn kids, get off my lawn!’ 😂

The worst of it is, we’ve probably forgotten how musicians from our grandparents’ age said the exact thing about us! I can certainly remember how I felt about the worth of their criticism..! 🙄😂
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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