Is Musicianship Dying?

I performed at a local political rally, last night, at the local American Legion, with around 150 guests in attendance. This was a first for me, so didn't know what to expect. I was supposed to share the stage with the honoree, but I was told upon arrival that the stage was to be filled with speakers(human). The staff apologized and offered me a spot in the corner of the room. This happens, and is fine except I had a full rig and 6' area.

This got me to rethinking gear in these high tech times. Had I known ahead of time, I would have brought my SD40, controller, and Bose L1., instead of the Pa4X, with all the attending gear. In fact, I could have left the keyboard home, using my DM40 wind controller, harmonicas, and vocals with just the SD40 module. The crowd liked the music fine, but all eyes were not on me, to be sure. When a crowd is busy talking, etc, I sometimes feel that the musicians, as we know them, are losing to backing tracks and DJ's.

Bernie, I played hundreds of these events and the bottom line is the people in attendance usually consist of political wannabes, lawyers, and building contractors. They could care less about the music, though I always got lots of compliments on how much they enjoyed the music. As the old saying goes, "follow the money." Who in their right mind would pay $1,000 a plate for finger food and to listen to a political wannabe running for office, or reelection?

Just take the money, and hope you get a call for the next job. BTW: My fee for these jobs was $500 and I rarely played more than an hour - they never blinked!

All the best,

Gary

Bernie, I think that superior musicianship is harder to find than it was in the past when you look at people in the "biz". That being said, there are brilliant new players that I find on a regular basis. Man, do they make my day!


There is a young guy in Lexington named Ben Lacy. He's so good, he just drives to NAMM, walks in without a contract, picks up a guitar, and 5 minutes later, is on the Ampeg stage with Victor Wooten. Really nice guy, too.


He and others give me hope for the future of good players and good music.


Russ

yes

Luckily, there were no prodigies at the Legion. It has a Tiki bar in a rear building that goes four nights a week at high volume, with no discernible talent, just screaming over distortion guitars. It is no wonder I went over so well.

It appears to me that a modification of my playing method is in order for "SOME" gigs, especially the wild and wooly ones. I shall automate some of my material to fit with the occasion. I am no Don Mason, who superbly accomps himself while singing, except for left hand chording, and that ain't gonna get it. Donny has been saying this for years, that the concept is changing. Make that "has already changed.

As for some of my old friends, I will make sure to play standards with an arranger.

Bernie, you ask "Is Musicianship Dying?". In my opinion, NO. I think there are just as many talented, well-trained musicians now as there were generations ago. What I think is dying is the general public's desire/demand for good, well-constructed music played by good, tasteful, competent musicians. Rock may be popular but let's face it; in terms of complexity, construction, melodies, and general sophistication, jazz (and the music of 'Broadway' from which much of it originates - along with blues) in most of it's forms, is several legs up the musical hierarchy from Rock N Roll. Let's face it, a kid with modest talent and two weeks of guitar lessons can hold down a lot of Rock gigs. If he can also scream at the top of his lungs while playing those three chords, he may end up spending the next few years boosting the drug trade, trashing hotel rooms, and impregnating 'groupies' (ah, to be young again ).

Soooo, it aint the keyboard, it aint the keyboardist, it's the dumbed-down audiences .

chas

I agree with Russ. Music and musicianship is as strong as ever. The problem has come from, oddly enough, the democratization of production and distribution, IMHO.

Professional popular music, back before Napster started the slide, was a heavily curated art form. It cost big bucks to get recorded, it cost big bucks to get promoted, it cost big bucks to get distributed. The other side of the coin (literally!) was the big bucks you could make (or the record company could, anyway!) because EVERYBODY paid for your music. The hard part was getting past the gatekeepers. A&R men ruled, talent was very carefully decided upon, and you never even saw the inside of a studio unless you had been vetted by several upper echelon bigwigs in the record company.

Yes, this MIGHT have made a few really talented musicians miss the boat, probably not as many as you might think, but what it did exceptionally well was to keep out the untalented, the semi-talented, the wannabes....

Nowadays, Napster and the Internet, Youtube, Soundcloud and all the streaming distribution avenues has made those gatekeepers moot. Music is cheap to produce, cheap to promote, cheap to distribute. And all but the very lucky, tiny few make next to nothing for their efforts. But, of course, everybody dreams, right?!

The problem nowadays is finding that needle in the haystack. The old system made sure there was no haystack. If it made it to vinyl, it had at least passed basic muster. So finding the talent was a search through, OK, let's just call it a MUCH smaller haystack! Not so today. Every hack can garner as much exposure as the most talented.

You can't really blame the kids nowadays for getting distracted. We never had to face that viral onslaught, we got spoonfed the best stuff right from the cradle. Who knows where popular music might have gone if the 60's and the 70's didn't have the music machine to promote the best. Might we have missed the Beatles in the throng of dozens of skiffle bands from Liverpool? Might we have missed Crosby Stills Nash and Young if every single California folk band had the exact same coverage?

The musicians are out there, but you have to spend a VERY long and quite horrible time sifting through the rejects who would never have got to see the inside of a studio back in the day to find them! But for every CardiB there's a Jacob Collier...

Between Chas and Diki lies a pretty thorough synopsis of the situation today. I agree that the mainstream audience has " dumbed down". Why else can mediocre performances garner such acclaim? I know I sound like my parents with the advent of Rock and Roll, but I can't believe people have changed so much that they wouldn't notice the performance of a true musician, everything else being equal.

In my case, I have learned more about playing to the crowd, also. You can't play Mozart in a redneck bar and expect thunderous applause, but a musician can do a better job in the right setting.

Bernie, an example of where we are today is when on 'career day', your kid announces that he wants to be an 'INFLUENCER'.
Arrrrgggg!

chas

Or you can offer humor while playing:

I tell my crowd: "I said to my mother-in-law, hey mom, I have a job coming up". She replies, "oh, do you think you can do it?" I said "why not". She replies, "because you've been sitting on your ass for a year and a half".

Another one. Told same mom-in-law, "once a piece of equipment fell on a guys shoes in the front row, but they liked me anyway". She replies, "that's because they are desperate".

True story

I have just been asked to provide music in a rally for the same county commissioner, but instead of the wild west American Legion, it will be held at a more genteel restaurant where people of means frequent. Instead of western attire, I will switch to a Fedora and vest. I know I should have grabbed some of Gary's when he sold his. I presume to alter the playlist, cutting down on the country, and bringing a little culture into my act. I expect the ages will be from forty to eighty, and the atmosphere noisy.

My experience playing to kids in their forties and fifties is limited, and would appreciate any suggestions.

Well said, Diki.

Often wished we could play a few gigs together.

Russ

Just had that conversation with a fellow musician. He obsesses about what to play for an event. I told him most people like the same crowd pleasers so just go with that. Unless your in specific situation it usually works fine,
His brother does a dueling piano show which is more humor that music and even though he's a pretty good player they stick to the tried and true
You can't re-educate an audience.

The best advice I have is to play music that was popular when they were 15 to 25 years of age - works for me!

As for the vests, sorry you missed out, Bernie. I gave most of them away, along with some fantastic satin shirts and matching ties. Even gave away a couple of tuxedos, one black and one white (winter/summer). After I retired, I had some thoughts about being buried in a tux, but I have since donated my body to the University of Maryland School Of Medicine, Anatomy Division. Some medical students will get a first hand look at what a person does to abuse himself over the past 8 decades, then after a year, they cremate me and send me home in a box to be disposed of. Yep, I just cheated the undertakers!

Good luck,

Gary

Bernie, good post. Staying with the theme;
“Is Musicianship Dying?”
When I was playing gigs, a musician had to play Big Band; ballads, moderate and up tempo, Latin, Rhumba, Cha Cha, Tango, and Bosa Nova. Waltzes and polkas, Country, and some Jazz. (Improvising) and some R&R, and 50’s. I had to know my major and minor scales, arpeggios, chord inversions, and chord substitutions. How well they did all that was at question.

My students were not interested in all that they wanted to know three chords in a few keys, and a blues Scale. After 4 t0 6 months they started a band. This had it’s down side, but it also brought more emotion and excitement to their music; which was a big plus. I am not judging types of music; I feel it is all good.

To answer Bernie’s question, we would have to define Is Musicianship as the induvial sees it. If we do not include the Technical part of the player, then my answer is, Yes, it has. Only my opinion.

Playing with tracks sound fuller, and give you hands freedom, but it keeps you in the same grove each time you play the song. If I did not play Country, Rock, or Disco song well, I played the original recording; that was always accepted.

In my 50’s and 60’s I used programs like Sonar (Cakewalk) and the Kn7000 to create, it was fun. I do my best to use what ever the keyboard has to offer --- and play, and play my music.

Whatever happens, it’s still fun to play a keyboard, John C.

Most people that think musicianship is defined by how many genres from their youth they can play well couldn’t put together a hip hop groove to save their lives, or know how to play a drop and build in a techno song, myself included..!

Musicianship is all too often defined by what we grew up listening to and enjoying. But it’s a little too easy to criticize newer forms while we have zero command of them.

I suppose the definition is , outside of the rudiments, subjective to a degree. However, I am speaking of lacking the most basic knowledge of theory. I am not saying musicianship is dead, but that it seems not to be considered as necessary, and snarkily speaking, I can see why. Compare the classical pianist that has studied his craft for years, to some of the 3 chord entrants today.

Exceptions noted.

Your right Bernie. A low percentage of musicians choose the long road of learning fundamental theory and choose the "look' I can play Smoke On the Water" after ONE lesson ! " This comes from my experience working in a music store. And sadly the music consuming public accepts it for the most part.

And I will borrow your tag line, Exceptions Noted

Thanks Bill
That is firsthand verification to me. I may come off sounding snobbish, but I am not, because times have changed, and with it the method of delivery and song creation, like EDM etc. I guess the kids today favor instant gratification. I remember my 15 yr old niece came to visit and was enamored by my music vocation. with multiple keyboards and all. I told her I would give her one if she promised to to invest the time and effort to learn it properly. She answered that a classmate can show her enough in a couple of days. That was the end of that,ha.

There’s nothing ‘instant’ about being able to craft good EDM, hiphop etc..

Sure, you can craft a sound that will fool most over 60 codgers, but you’ll get a blank stare from kids who actually LIKE it!

Kind of like how it’s hard to create GOOD jazz or rock with an arranger. Sure, you’ll fool a few kids that don’t listen to the real thing, but not anyone who loves good jazz or rock!

I agree that harmonic complexity may have taken a backwards step, but rhythmical complexity has bounded forwards, layered loops and rhythmical arpeggios have made for a very difficult sound to emulate if you really don’t know what you’re doing (probably from not having listened to enough for it to have become ingrained).

Let’s face it, this is all just the musical equivalent of ‘Damn kids, get off my lawn!’ 😂

The worst of it is, we’ve probably forgotten how musicians from our grandparents’ age said the exact thing about us! I can certainly remember how I felt about the worth of their criticism..! 🙄😂

I'm over 60. Whats an EDM ? 😂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IJKD11b8wE

For those over 60, EDM is "erectile disfunction medication". For the youngsters it stands for Electric Dance Music.

Sorry, dumb joke : )

As to if musicianship is dying, I'd say absolutely not! Just watch all the child prodigies coming up. There's plenty of kids out there playing jazz, classical and other "traditional " forms at extremely high levels.

I remember being interested in jazz at a young age, and it was a major chore to find the classic albums that my teacher would recommend to listen too. Now you can listen to any Charlie Parker song instantly, find transcriptions for free, as well as tutorials. If there are no jazz teachers in your area you can easily study with the worlds best teachers via Zoom or whatever. The information is ready available and apparently not all kids are addicted to video games. Some are becoming great players, but I do wonder if they will have an audience that appreciates their talents once that aren't cute kids anymore?

Bernie, as to what to play for the 30-40 year old's, Gary gave some good advice. But let me add this: Just be yourself. Give them your best stuff, whatever that is. Even if that's " old time grandpa music" like Sinatra, Elvis, Glen Miller, Hank Williams, Beatles, Stones or whatever. Most people can appreciate a good artist that is authentic, even they play "oldies". Do what you do best, and if you're still concerned about catering to them you can play the music of their era ( 90's -2000's) in "DJ" mode on your break.

Thanks Bernie, I didn't know I knew that. Hypnotic club music. A friend of mine used to do that way back in the cassette days. I don't know what drew him to it

I agree… the kids will listen to 60’s stuff done really well far happier than current stuff done badly. And trust me, if it’s something contemporary you have no respect for or like, you WILL do it badly!

I only have one person that attends every single show I do. Me! So, keeping my biggest fan happy is job #1… 😂

Play what YOU love, let the chips fall where they may. And if you HAVE to play at least some contemporary music, find some YOU like. It’s out there. If you look…

Thank you much, guys, for what I consider sage advice. Just because I have been playing for 55 years, doesn't mean I know it all, but with professionals here to advise me, I can proceed. The idea of changing how I play to try and keep relevant to a few, is fool hearty. In fact, a few times over the years, I became doubtful that my 150 core songs from the 20's to the 70's were currant enough, and updated much of my music. This meant carrying my laptop, as I no longer had everything memorized. My thought was to keep my old material in abeyance ,just in case.

What I found was that the great standards ,that I know so well, were always well received even though I thought they pegged me as an old fart that was behind the times. That may be so if I were foolish enough to try and be something I'm not. My daddy always said that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Well this old boy is staying the course while adding some.

As to musicianship, I agree. Paul and Diki, for two, have convinced me that it is the eye of the beholder, and to dismiss talent based upon little understood genres is short sighted.

Thank you all for your sage advice,

You can’t please the people all the time, but you can please the people some of the time. Amen!

Bernie, I understand everything you have said. You can add a few new ideas, but don’t change what you love to do. The new will always make you feel old --- but that is what we are. Your success of 55 years says it all.

Take care my friend, John C.

PS, towards the end of my playing career I added and changed my music – more disco, rock, and blues, but I no longer enjoyed what I was doing. After playing, I looked at my guitar/keyboard and thought: With all that I have learned, I just played that three-chord song – what am I doing?????

You may have played that three chord song but you don't have to
use those three chords. Not with all your knowledge. Ha ha.
MEL

Hi John and Mel
There is no question that the bulk of my songs will be from 30's to 70's, incl all standards ,R&R, country, and a smattering of occasional Broadway. I will keep a secondary folder of fast dance music from the 50's to the 80's in SMF format, in case I get caught by surprise.

If they don't like that, I am in the wrong venue.

That sure sounds like a quick way to end your musical career, Diki. First and foremost, YOU'RE not paying the bill - the person that hired you is picking up the tab for the entertainment. I managed to make a very good living in this industry by providing what the client wanted to hear - NOT WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR! There are a lot of folks in that audience that wish to be entertained - that's why you were hired in the first place. The very last thing I would do is to play progressive jazz to a country or Jimmy Buffet audience - kinda like playing blues at a Saint Patrick's Day party - you won't be getting any return engagements!

Nealy all of my jobs came from the same 50 clients every month throughout the entire year. And, I was at the point where I was the first musician/entertainer they called for special events, which often payed the premium bucks.

Lets be realistic. You are essentially an employee of the person that hired you to entertain them, musically. If you cannot do this, you will not be in business very long. Over the more than 30 plus years I spent on stage, I managed to make enough to support my wife and 2 children, set up 3 retirement plans, purchase a 33 Morgan Out Island sailing yacht and take a six month vacation sailing to the Florida Keys, where I performed 3 nights a week while living aboard the boat.

Bernie, the main reason I was successful was because I performed the music my audiences wanted to hear. I keep things upbeat, interacted with my audiences and got to know many of them personally. This is what makes you successful in the musical entertainment business. Great musicians are a dime a dozen. Great musician/entertainers are a rare breed, but most are very successful, both financially and musically.

Good luck,

Gary

Gary
That is all fine and dandy, and, your success can't be denied. By your own admission, you consider yourself more of an entertainer/vocalist than a musician. For many years I have known what you aptly mentioned. You take exception to the idea of playing what you like instead of what the employer wants. I guess I haven't been around long enough to find a venue that explicitly has a certain playlist. I have yet to have anyone tell me what to play, so I play a mix that would seem to fit the job. One can tell pretty well what doesn't fly and what does. It becomes much easier for repeat gigs, of coarse. It would seem to me that you have the ability to hone in quickly. I have admired you and your accomplishments in many areas for over twenty years, but that is you, not me.
Fortunately, I never had to sell my soul to the devil, and have enjoyed my years playing, tremendously. If money was my primary goal. I probably would not be as glib.

As for myself, let thine own self be true. I am a very nice guy, but not an "in your face" entertainer. I made my money elsewhere, and could enjoy bringing MY music to others at my choosing. That, certainly, doesn't sound like you Gary, because I don't have the incessant drive that you, Capt Russ, et al. have.

I shall maintain my role as a big fish in a small pond for as long as I can, and may God bless all of us in whatever road we take.

Bernie, I sincerely hope it all works out for you. I believe that one of the things that was always very beneficial to me was my ability to read an audience. And, I think you have that ability as well. I was pretty much always to look out into the crowd and determine how best to entertain them. And, as you stated, providing the audience with a wide variety of music and songs really goes a long way.

Keep us posted as to how the job went when you have time.

All the best,

Gary

So true Gary, so true. Sometimes, hard to swallow ,but as an entertainer you are an employee. And you can, or should have fun playing what the people want. There's worse jobs out there

Mel, I’m just an old guy that hates to lose what he loved. I was when there was no TV, I traveled in trolly cars, and a lot more.
That said, I love my iPad, and my Sx900, and my wife; so, I am not doing to bad. (smile)
John C.

Sorry Gary, but if a venue wants to hire me, I ask them what they want. And if they want a bunch of crap I can’t stand, I turn down the gig. Simple as that.

And most venues hire me because they ALREADY know what I do, or someone recommends me to them. And he knows what I do.

Push comes to shove and nowhere likes what I do, there’s always stocking shelves..! Pays about as good as playing LOL 😆

But I’m pretty comfortable in most genres, and can find a decent amount of contemporary stuff that isn’t awful to flesh out my older repertoire, and even that is mostly a bit of 60’s (Beatles, Stones, Kinks, stuff like that) a ton of 70’s, and 80’s. Given the age of most customers of decent restaurants etc, that’s pretty much what they grew up with. 30’s-50’s is starting to die out (literally!) and it’s tough to find an audience that will toe tap to Sinatra after you just played some John Mayer or Ben Harper…

My area is not very highbrow! But while they might not be that enthused about Broadway musicals or bebop, they’re pretty happy going from 80’s synth pop to hardcore reggae to zydeco to yacht rock. And that’s plenty enough variety to keep ME happy!

While it's true that Jazz gigs are few and far between, at least they're consistent. You can play any tune from any era in a jazz format and it'll please most jazz audiences. If that's your bag and there's work available, you don't have to worry about keeping up with the latest musical trends. PLUS, since jazz gigs require you to actually play, there isn't much competition for the available gigs. PLUS, you won't end up equipment-poor as you will be immune from 'GAS' attacks. Most 'jazzers' are still playing the same instrument they played 20-30 years ago . I'm saying this mostly 'tongue-in-cheek'; I realize that this is an 'arranger' forum (even if it IS true).

Happy Labor day to those of you still 'laboring' (or about to give birth).

chas

I agree 100%. I love playing for people more than anything and there are songs I love more than others, but usually the ones I don 't like are the ones that I am weakest at so I work on them until I am comfortable with them and most of the time BAM I have a new sone I don't mind at all and I am actually having fun playing it. Not always but most of the time.

On what basis do you choose a new song, and what made you doubt it at first? Is it because of the complexity, but you knew it was a winner?
Why do you think you weren't really that fond of the tune, but decided to tackle it anyway. It must have some redeeming quality.

My problem is too many choices, and it had better be darn good to invest the time if you didn't like it that much. In thinking back, I can think of a couple like that. One is "Tico Tico", which is difficult for me to play at the right tempo; but. a show stopper for sure. The other is "Achey Breakey Heart", that I heard so much, I would be almost ill when I heard it.

This is where I forced myself to sing and play it. because of the popularity and line dance meter. We all are different in our likes and dislikes, but I don't want to miss the boat because of frivolous whim. I should say to myself; too bad you don't like it, because plenty of others seem to( but I don't).

I think that I’m happy concentrating on restaurant gigs these days. They tend to be mostly non-dancing venues, and I think that it’s primarily dance venues that force you to be trying to play current dance stuff (whether line dance stuff or modern R&B/hiphop tunes etc.) that you can’t really stand or are vocally poorly suited to.

Restaurant crowds are mostly listeners, which tends to open up your options and genre choices. Hard to keep a dance floor packed going straight from a Bob Marley tune to an old Elvis song, but perfectly acceptable for a seated audience!

I love playing dance stuff when I’m in a full band, don’t get me wrong. But that’s a different kind of energy and focus. I think I’m going to stick to restaurants and quiet beachside bars as a solo. We’re a better fit…

my first clue in picking a new song is are people asking for it. Then I think thats what i'm here for, to make my croud happy. Win win.
MEL

"Restaurant crowds are mostly listeners, which tends to open up your options and genre choices. Hard to keep a dance floor packed going straight from a Bob Marley tune to an old Elvis song, but perfectly acceptable for a seated audience!"

This is 95% of my playing, and am happier about my normal playlists. I can see from the above responses, that a whole different mindset is necessary with a passive audience and dances.

I would like thoughts on mixing in vocals with instrumentals at dinners at a suitable, non invasive volume and/or tempo.
To provide ambience for a dinner party, involves taking more of a back seat, and allow for conversation, but lyrics can be so important.

On the Redneck Riviera, picking your repertoire tends to be a mostly subtractive process. The goal isn’t to please as many as possible, it’s to piss off the fewest!

Finding a balance between patrons who’d be happy with 100% bro country and patrons who’d be happy with 0% bro country is a delicate balancing act… 😂

But with younger patrons, if you don’t want to do much stuff THEY love (which will annoy the older patrons!), try playing a ton of stuff their parents love. They grew up listening to it, it probably brings back happy memories. The stuff their grandparents listened to is a harder sell. They probably didn’t have that on around the house as kids.

That’s why I’ve largely ignored the 40’s and 50’s other than a bit of Elvis and the odd standard. I can pull them out if I get an elderly couple requesting an old favorite, but they don’t get regular rotation. Yacht Rock seems a pretty safe bet, these days, and is awesome to play and sing…

Speaking of which, unfortunately, it’s still singing that is the primary focus. Particularly with electronic keyboards, where you don’t get the visuals that playing guitar gives the audience, it’s important to give the crowd something to look at as well as listen to. Which is a shame, particularly with my voice! It’s a shame the audience focuses more on my weakest skill, but I guess that’s always the case! Nat King Cole was an amazing pianist, but everyone just wanted to hear him sing… I just wish I sang that good!

Bernie,
I played at a high-end dinner country club for five years. It was nice, but very little interplay. (Not rewarding)
Bernie, my opinion: No vocals at dinner job, they are doing the talking, and you are background music.

I have seen many older musicians trying to play contempory music, bad idea. I did the LeRoy Browns and Y M C A; the songs I was not capable of doing well I did not do. 80% of the line dances and contempory songs I played the original recordings. Never had a complaint.

At the senior jobs I used a younger man to do what I could not. His voice was fair, but he had the feel. His guitar playing was sad. After a while I ask the singer not to come back, I wanted to do a solo. I played three jobs and realized that my love for playing this type of job was gone; I have not played a job since. I was 85 years old at the time.

My love now; playing what I want, (smile) setting up a new keyboard and playlists, I use head phones for the middle of the night.
With my age, (90 this month, and all that is happening in the world, I have a job – and that is to have peace and contentment.
Take care my friend, John C.

As to volume, I’m not a big believer in the Bose type line array systems, that tend to give a really even volume back to front of the venue. To get into the music, to not feel like I’m making Muzak in an elevator or shopping mall, I need a decent volume by me, but want it to drop off as fast as possible. So regular speakers right behind me (I use a pair of K10’s with deep mode on so no sub needed) gives me a semblance of a real band volume (without the tinnitus!) and drops off to conversational level within a few feet.

I also try to work with the hostess, making sure she seats older people who have the hardest job hearing conversation over music as far away as possible. Those that care enough about the music (or me!) can always request a closer table.

I could always go stick PA and use in ears, but I don’t like how those tend to mask the audience. You can pick up a lot of clues about how your show is going as long as you can hear them… Are they raising their voices? Have they gone quiet while you do a great ballad? Are they trying to ask a request while you’re playing? Tough to notice if you’ve got the music in your head…

But everything’s about flexibility in the end. Did a stint at an Italian high end restaurant a couple of years ago. Time to polish up the Sinatra and Dino and more instrumentals. Fun!

Beachside restaurant deck this evening. Back to the Yacht Rock, reggae and beach country. I love my job!

I have sung ,for years, at parties, nursing homes, and dances, but quiet dinners were more elevator type until dinner was over, then it would often start to liven up. If I had a rock n roll request, game on. I will have to keep using my own judgement about when and what to sing. John's idea about not singing in a high end dinner, may have merit. I, on the other hand, am a little rough around the edges, with 70's country my favorite. In between both ideas lie the answer for me.
" READ THE AUDIENCE" like Gary and others say.

For what it's worth: https://www.weddingwire.com/wedding-forums/singing-during-dinner/0e817c1857d2f39c.html