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#498419 - 06/10/20 05:31 AM
Re: Now We WAIT !
[Re: TedS]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43707
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It would be neat if they were to finally integrate Steven Kay's "Karma." Or at least SOMETHING, with some degree of randomness.
I'm not talking about playing random wrong notes. Just some paramaters to humanize the arranger's performance. As far as I know, none of the brands have ever attempted this. If it sounded a little different every time, or "evolved" in some random way, I might be tempted to keep practicing, just to see what happened next. And obviously a way to turn it off, for studio musicians or live performers.
When the instrument inspires you to keep playing, you know that you have something very special! Ted now the game has changed drastically for many players between, semi/full retirement, old age, Covid 19 virus fears, less and less scared audiences coming out, generation gaps regarding genre of music styles performing live, some will return performing live due to financial needs, some will not and pursue another musical direction & just play at home. Some are fed up, some are tired, some don't care, everything changes and you have to adapt with it.
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#498420 - 06/10/20 05:45 AM
Re: Now We WAIT !
[Re: Fran Carango]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43707
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Wait for what? Every manufacturer has a money making line up.. There isn't anything that can get better.. just fix the bugs (easy update fixes) Yamaha has the Genos and SX x900, and when new models do appear..it will be repackaged just like Yamaha always does.. The Montage and the low end version DX?? will keep Yamaha people happy. Korg will continue the repackaged PA series, and people will buy it.. and their high end workstation will continue with the same features.. Roland has more money making lines than anyone.. Fantom will dominate, Their effects, replicate keyboards, digital pianos will continue to be big,, And the inexpensive EA7 will line their pockets...so they don't need a new top model arranger (PS: it is in the making)  Like I said... wait for what? Donny pick any of the keyboards you have tried... stay with it and learn the dang thing... then maybe you will find what you are looking for  Fran a very grim, picture indeed you have painted. It might be the only way to go in the end.... But for now, I would think waiting a few months to see what turns up is a prudent choice for now. My Novation Launchkey MKIII keyboard controller & Mixcraft pro9 DAW is more then enough to keep me busy and interested in musical creation projects for now. I've went the synth workstation route a few times but it always left me yearning for my arranger kb. Too much work and doesn't for fill my heart and desire to play as an arranger does. I look forward one more time to see the next generation on arrangers and hopefully will get excited enough to give it a go again with one of them. I wish I could be like you with your never ending love affair with your Roland G70....when I bought mine as you know I was doing a super busy gig schedule years ago and the weight and size was a deterrent for me not the sound, navigation, styles, features etc,. I did however always enjoyed playing it and quite honestly if one passed my way again in mint condition at the right price I would possibly give it another chance in my current situation in my home studio. But they are almost impossible to come by as you well know. Anyway wait and see is the recipe for now. Stay safe
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#498457 - 06/10/20 01:25 PM
Re: Now We WAIT !
[Re: TedS]
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2457
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
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It would be neat if they were to finally integrate Steven Kay's "Karma." Or at least SOMETHING, with some degree of randomness.
I'm not talking about playing random wrong notes. Just some paramaters to humanize the arranger's performance. As far as I know, none of the brands have ever attempted this. If it sounded a little different every time, or "evolved" in some random way, I might be tempted to keep practicing, just to see what happened next. And obviously a way to turn it off, for studio musicians or live performers.
When the instrument inspires you to keep playing, you know that you have something
very special! I asked this same question a while back. My old Roland CR80 drum machine had an adjustable random function which alterted the timing and drum hits. Not a lot but helped give it a live feel. Why can't Arrangers take the next step and add something more powerful in Styles. Seems simple to do to me ???
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer
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#498471 - 06/10/20 04:16 PM
Re: Now We WAIT !
[Re: Dnj]
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Member
Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 714
Loc: Russia
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As I can see it, Yamaha has the most success with PSR-S670 as an arranger, MX61 as a synthesizer, P125 as a piano and DGX-660 as a hybrid. These products are below $1000 and offer convincing sound. For less than $500 Roland offers XPS-10 as a synthesizer and GO:Piano as a very portable piano, and people appreciate it. KORG decided to go into entry-level as well, EK-50 and i3 are the result of that decision. Casio has always been an entry-level player; somehow they know how to get their keyboards to the shelfs of stores which are not musically-oriented. Perhaps Casio is the most popular “my first keyboard”.
Today we see some development in entry-entry level which is reincarnation of Casiotone and Yamaha PSS, these are below $300…
Those who work mostly in studios are now all about VST, this is not news; for young enthusiasts “FL Studio” is like where everything starts.
Personally I often want a new arranger, sometimes it even makes me angry and jealous that I don’t have one, which is my weak and dark side (weakness and darkness do go hand-in-hand); but I also notice that I already have too much arrangers in my life and when I put my PSR away and leave only guitar and digital piano (I see my Juno DS 76 as one) I feel much better and occupied. I’m not going to get rid of an arranger, but it’s nice not to be dependent on it.
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#498474 - 06/10/20 04:41 PM
Re: Now We WAIT !
[Re: Kabinopus]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43707
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As I can see it, Yamaha has the most success with PSR-S670 as an arranger, MX61 as a synthesizer, P125 as a piano and DGX-660 as a hybrid. These products are below $1000 and offer convincing sound. For less than $500 Roland offers XPS-10 as a synthesizer and GO:Piano as a very portable piano, and people appreciate it. KORG decided to go into entry-level as well, EK-50 and i3 are the result of that decision. Casio has always been an entry-level player; somehow they know how to get their keyboards to the shelfs of stores which are not musically-oriented. Perhaps Casio is the most popular “my first keyboard”.
Today we see some development in entry-entry level which is reincarnation of Casiotone and Yamaha PSS, these are below $300…
Those who work mostly in studios are now all about VST, this is not news; for young enthusiasts “FL Studio” is like where everything starts.
Personally I often want a new arranger, sometimes it even makes me angry and jealous that I don’t have one, which is my weak and dark side (weakness and darkness do go hand-in-hand); but I also notice that I already have too much arrangers in my life and when I put my PSR away and leave only guitar and digital piano (I see my Juno DS 76 as one) I feel much better and occupied. I’m not going to get rid of an arranger, but it’s nice not to be dependent on it. Good thoughts been there many times but always seem to return to an arranger... A 76 key arranger fits all the spaces.. if you don't want the arranger just shut off the auto Styles and play it as a piano, etc, ...
Edited by Dnj (06/10/20 04:42 PM)
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#498520 - 06/11/20 07:18 AM
Re: Now We WAIT !
[Re: Dnj]
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Member
Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 771
Loc: NY
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Best brands based on what exists today:
Tie: Korg/Roland
Ketron
Yamaha "Best lists" need back up ... and that being I have to HEAR what people are talking about there lies the real best IMO always. You've heard all of these keyboards-heck you've owned them all. Exactly I know what they can sound like .... I was referring to hearing or describing why your choices of "best" was created. Korg-2 game changing features. Songbook feature is the best "registration" system IMO hands down. Also, the TC Helicon harmony and vocal section is the best. These two features give it the edge for what I use an arranger for (singing and playing country songs at home). Roland-Easiest operating system and good sounds. If they had a touch screen and harmony they could overtake Korg. Ease of use is important to me as I want to play and not flip through manuals. Ketron-I have never owned Ketron so take it with a grain of salt. But they have the best drum sounds and that is a huge plus. The 2 most important sounds to me are drums and piano. I have read their manuals and I'm not sure ease of use is that great so no compelling reason to switch right now. Yamaha-The drums are poor with the exception of the new Genos revo drums. Genos is overpriced for me. They also refuse to put in my favorite fingering (Uncle Dave agrees with this-one finger makes a major, a C+Eb=minor, C+b=maj7, C+Bb=C7). I am used to this and can't do without it so that rules them out in my book. I don't really like the registrations but I could learn to live with that.
Edited by W Tracy Parnell (06/11/20 07:19 AM)
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#498568 - 06/11/20 01:10 PM
Re: Now We Wait...Maybe?
[Re: Dnj]
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Member
Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 878
Loc: North Texas, USA
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Totally with you on the chord recognition, Tracy. Roland allows the most chords and chord types, and easiest progressions with a minimum of fingering. At least for the music I play. Generalmusic (R.I.P.) and the newest Casios use similar logic and are nearly as good. Korg is third--not as easy for "slash" chords. I personally rate Ketron fourth, because in my limited experience with them, the sixth chord tends to get in the way of my favorite inversions for minor sevenths. At this point in the pecking order, the fingering is different enough that I can't easily play my favorite songs  And Yamaha is last. Someone needs to make Steve Deming write 100x on the blackboard "One finger equals a major chord"  Seriously, I think that all brands of arrangers should have more customization options surrounding chord recognition. It's a very important, and yet personal thing. If Roland does exit the arranger game, I'm gonna have to re-learn stuff. In fact it's probably easier to learn a new song, than it is to re-learn something I've been playing a certain way for years. NOT looking forward to that!!
Edited by TedS (06/11/20 01:14 PM)
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