This morning my wife(my once in a while) musical partner and I were visiting about music over coffee.

We talked about starting our duo up again when she goes part time at work and IF my leg heals up enough to haul equipment...right now I’m at recommended 10 - 20lbs.

My wife is a dabbler on instruments playing a little bit of everything. Her voice is her strong suit. She mentioned that she wanted to do more than sing...and even though she sight reads a bit of piano, I was the one who really took to arrangers(though I encouraged her to learn)and arrangers work the best for us.

That said, my wife can spend hours on crafts, bible studies and cooking.

That brings me to the subject of the thread.

I love playing arrangers even though my skills are limited. Along with my wife, I have asked other musical friends to play with me. But as one friend said, “You don’t need my guitar, that keyboard does it all.”

So more and more, I find myself just playing solo....either for my own enjoyment or, as I have done in the past, playing solo gigs. It would be great to play with others, but my arranger doesn’t seem to encourage that.

One interesting point...I have two musical friends, both of whom could play circles around me on arrangers if they would learn. However, both have said they don’t like to play solo, so one stays with piano and the other switched to guitar(separate musicians...separate groups) so they could play with others.

So it looks like I’ll stay and play solo.

Thoughts?

It's a toss up. I love playing with my full 5-6 pc band. Takes the pressure off of doing everything. I have a lead singer so I don't have to all night, and other musicians to do instrumentals I would otherwise leave out of my solo sets. The overall product is better.But then you're managing personalities and the stage all night. Easier to manage your own volume levels than everybody else's. Nobody to chase after when its time to go back on...

I had a client request a live drummer at a gig, so I did the duo. Drummer said same thing- that I could have done gig myself.
And made more $$.

One of my band members was terrific but talked a lot. When we would eat between sets, he talked more than ate and was never ready to go back on in time. I started without him a few times... Another always shows up last minute or late. Of course I would talk to them, but they were/are quality
performers too good to replace. Its these things that make me say its easier by myself.

As someone who started gigging late in life ( about 10 years ago) I’ve never played in a band. I’m sorry I missed that experience but I’ve only played solo, mostly on the arranger but some piano solo. A couple of times TonyMads and myself jammed at his house for a few hours. I just managed to book a weekly piano solo gig here in Florida one hour every Thursday in the lobby/waiting area of a cancer treatment clinic. It will be mostly wallpaper music, I don’t know what to expect but I suspect it may be rewarding.

I work solo often with an arranger. Then, duo with a horn player. Then, add another singer, along with my vocals. Then, a live drummer, where I mute the drums on the arranger. It depends on the gig and what the client wants. I like all the combinations, since the other guys are close friends, with no drinking, ego, or personality issues. The solo routine was the biggest learning curve-----dealing with employers, handling requests, getting paid, and all the rest. Previously, I could “hide” in a 4-piece band, as part of the furniture and let someone else handle the business end. You may have to give it a go for a while, then back off and evaluate the situation.

When you mute your drums, is your drummer able to stay with your baseline tempo? Discussed this before, but sometimes they can't keep time with "mechanically perfect" tempo..

I was wondering the same thing, sparky ...

As to playing solo vs with others, I've said before that one of the greatest musical experiences of my life was playing with the other 4 guys in our band in NY ... no egos, no drugs, no excessive booze, we and our wives developed friendships that are still going strong today even though I left the band to relocate 33 years ago ...
These days I play a number of gigs a year with the same guitar player in NJ, and if I'm lucky, get to play one or two with the sax player from the band ... here in RI I play mostly single gigs on the KB, but once in a while might have a gig with a local sax/guitar player ... and of course I do a good number of gigs as a vocalist with my female music partner ...
I really enjoy performing with other musicians, but accept the fact that most of the work at this point in my career is going to be solo ...
When I first started playing solo, it was somewhat traumatic not having my four buddies with me ... fortunately with the band I had worked on some of the 'business' end, so that wasn't new to me ...
I guess if I had my druthers, I would perform more with at least one other musician ...

I started out as a single, playing guitar in smoke filled bars, then started a 5 piece country band, and after 10 years, when arranger keyboards became available, went back to solo and never looked back. Yes, it was fun playing in the band, but no one made a living. With few exceptions, the same holds true today - band members all do something else to earn a living. I know many solo performers who make a good living as an entertainer. So, the decision is up to you - do you just want to have fun, or do you want to make a living as an entertainer?

Good luck,

Gary

Tx for taking the time to comment.

Good thoughts all.

Guess I’m not sur e what the future will bring.

another thing when someone is playing solo you better BRING IT!! after all it's ONLY YOU up there to watch so make it more then good. some of the acts I've seen lately look like they are bothered to be up there and putting audiences to sleep, just there for the $$$....if someone isn't giving 150% 100% of the time stay home the audience doesn't deserve that.....
give em hell every single time I say make them leave with there mouths open saying WOW!.

Sparky I played with a drummer (Duo) once – it was a nightmare. He wanted to control the beat/tempo. I ended up putting the speaker right behind him. I believe if he knew more about an arranger he might have done better. Never did it again.

John C.
One more time Donny, you are right. I never played a job with a so so attitude. Always went home beat.

I believe if he knew more about an arranger he might not have taken the gig ...

I've played 2 gigs on arranger kb with drummers ... both times we also had a sax and guitar, and both times we had a good size monitor right behind them eq'd to mostly bass coming from the kb so that they could really hear the tempo ... both gigs were successful ...

The drummer that works with me occasionally (with an arranger) is a true professional. He’s played with some very good groups over the years, including remnants of the Lawrence Welk group, Broadway shows, and such. He holds a degree in music and can sight read like crazy. No problem playing along with an arranger. He uses headphones straight off the mixer, where he gets a good mix of what’s going on. I typically start the style, so he can get the feel, then quickly mute the drum track. He’s right on the money and very tasteful. Live drums really can add to the approximation of a “live band” sound.

I currently perform as a duo with my wife and as a solo when she can’t do the gig because of work. There is something special about a husband/wife music duo! We can both sing and it’s great making music together. At tonight’s gig, a 40th birthday party for a pastor, the lady who hired us is in tears after our Somewhere Over The Rainbow. My wife can draw out emotions... she is very talented!

2017
10 Duo Gigs
6 Solo Gigs
9 Sound Gigs

We made enough money in 2017 to buy a Genos, the speakers, and a stand!! But, not buying anything until AFTER the NAMM show at the end of the month!!

If I didn’t do the 6 gigs as solo gigs, we would have lost $850. Plus, those solo gigs gave us more opportunities to do duo shows.

That's the least of it. The actual playing with other musicians and their "peculiarities" and their "ego's" is the real challenge.

You hit a nerve in me that made me remember my last band job a few months ago. I've never seen such an assortment of ragamuffins together in one place. The bandleader was competent in leading the band. The rest of the players were pro's, but musically challenged. Who does the leader settle on as the centerpiece? His wife, of course. Couldn't sing in key....didn't even know the key....sang at full speed (somewhere around 80-85 mph), sang the same song over and over about 15-20 times 'cause she only knew 2-3 songs, didn't know how to talk to an audience. The horn player.......hard of hearing and they put him on the end where he couldn't hear the "calls." Given a song, he played the whole thing beginning to end without a "conversation" with another instrument. The trombone player was a really nice guy, but green/inexperienced so he didn't add much to the group. The drummer was "rushing" all the songs probably trying to keep up with the vocalist. I was contemplating taking a cyanide pill 30 minutes into whatever I got myself into. Then, just as I was asking God to shut my brain down before I suffered permanent damage, the leader mercifully called "finish." He was probably a mentalist reading my thoughts. But, here's the kicker.....people were coming up to us with compliments on how great the music was! I was thinking to myself did the leader hire a bus to bring his whole family there?

I played in a band for a few years when I was younger. Smooth as silk. Everyone knew their parts, came in and out of a song appropriately, and best of all, most players back then were just really great musicians who knew how to put over a song. Wha' hoppened over the years?



Well, that didn't change much! Personality conflicts rears it's ugly head everywhere!



One of my Golden Rules in life is "no one is irreplaceable." When you shut one door another one opens. For me that goes for everything musical (like "inadequate/difficult" musicians) AND non-musical (like doctors, car mechanics, wives and girl friends and McDonald's hamburgers.

Oh well.....looks like I went on another rant, but that job was so traumatic I swore I'd never work with a band again! I still have nightmares over it.

Forgot to say....musicians today have no idea of how to interact with an audience and make their playing more palatable with some creativity......they just "play the song!!!"

I'm blessed to be in an area where are a great number of real pros, maybe 10 guitar players, several drummers and bass men, one tremendous harmonic player and a couple of excellent sax men.
Although as a rule most of them stay fairly busy, I can almost always quickly assemble a great band in a couple of hours when needed. These guys either know everything I do, or are good enough to lay out the first time through and then they will know it.
Most of them have played with big-name artists over the years, but have settled back here for whatever reason as they have gotten older. I'm talking PRO'S here, that can play almost anything on anyone's stage. And most all of them sing at least as well as I do or better. I do not ask them to play cheap, so I can usually get what I need.
It is an honor to share the bandstand with these guys, and I ALWAYS learn something from any of them.

This state I live in is like a huge junkyard. If I didn't know better, I would think it was an ancient Indian burial grounds before it got populated with bad musicians and too many pizza shops.

That's "wha' hoppened"..........they all moved to Benton, LA, USA.com

The magic that happens when you play with another musician does not happen when you play alone. The inter play brings more excitement and helps me reach new highs.

If the drummer is good he can play with an arranger keyboard. One of my closest friends was a fair drummer; I had to let him go and replace him with an excellent drummer – the band improved immediately.

Johnathan I married in 1976, my wife insisted on sitting in the rear of the stage in a high back stage – she did not play or sing; just sat there. I was playing a job in New York – Cocktail hour, four hours of continues music, one hour overtime, and then they served breakfast. (With background music) A man approached me and said he wanted to hire the band – but he would not do it unless the female singer came. Singer??? I said OK, that will be an additional $175, he agreed. My wife had a fair voice but she dressed well and was filled with personality; and she could sing Jewish and Italian songs. She was part of the band for the next 12 years. NICE! And I agree Johnathan, Husband and wife can create something very special – and the people can see and feel their relationship.

I never would let my mother-in-law on the stage, she would clear the place – and possible invite tomato throwing. (hehe)
Life is good, John C.

what state is that NJ?

this playing with others is becoming a fading thing slowly look around you, financially people will go the cheapest route out there, DJ's rule the roost now,......be glad we had our chance years ago I know I do no regrets and "I Did It MY WAY!"

If you view playing from a dollar point of view you have a good point Donny.

Playing with another musician is like going for dinner or going to the theater. I spent three years playing with an Italian mandolin player in my home and in the clubhouse – there were times we played a paying job at a local place; I did my normal set of songs and we went to the tables mandolin, guitar and singing. We were called back many times.

More than music happened; there was a relationship on and off stage. When I watched Tony’s video I saw the relationship. When Johnathan wrote about doing a job together with his wife, there was more than just music. We were blessed with a talent that can be used in many ways --- in each stage of our lives it is possible to use our gift in a different way. Writing on this forum is one.

LIFE IS GOOD, John C.

My father taught me this song, which I learned to appreciate even more later in life. It's titled, 'If all Mother-in-laws had locks on their jaws, what a wonderful world it would be'.



chas

I have to disagree. In Buffalo bands are alive. You I can go out and listen to live bands any night of the week. I can even go see a 17 piece band every Tuesday (at lunch) and the place is packed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=96&v=P7fXGszIveI

Here is an example of the daily schedule at one venue next summer. Again standing room only.

http://rivergrillmusic.com/


Regards,

Jerryghr

I believe that state is our state Donny. Doesn't say much for us..

I enjoy sharing my experiences here, but I don't believe in elevating myself at the expense of disrespecting the talent of others, indirectly or not.

My late best friend was the best talent I've ever heard. He was confident in his abilities, but the best thing about him was that while myself and others would say so, he never did about himself...

Bands are alive in Baltimore as well. DJs are lucky to get one job a week and that's the better ones here with light shows, etc... OMB guys are in nearly all the restaurants, and dominate the senior circuit, which is where the money is. The clubs usually hire duos and trios. DJs are on their way out here!

Gary

http://www.ebetalent.com/wedding-party-d...bMaAq25EALw_wcB

https://www.gigmasters.com/search/wedding-dj-baltimore-md

https://www.weddingwire.com/biz/dj-jimmy-t-entertainment-llc-rising-sun/3c9e9004a1b07d31.html

https://www.theknot.com/marketplace/wedding-djs-baltimore-md

Baltimore DJ scene is on the rise...

DJ's are doing weddings.

The bands are playing restaurants, clubs, and senior circuits.

DJ's can have the weddings. I can't compete.

I'll stick to my target audience, and senior weddings

Regards,

Jerryghr

Donny, DJs are a given at weddings, of which there are very few these days. As far as I'm concerned, they can have every one of them. I no longer wish to put up with fickle brides, grooms who get blasted out of their minds at their own weddings, and the DJ playing hip-hop for the 6 brides maids that took off their shoes, got drunk and dominated the dance floor, while 150 other guests had to yell at each other because the music was being played at ear bleed levels. So, the DJ's get one wedding a month, while the bands are performing 6 to 7 nights a week. I have a good friend that was the top DJ in this area for decades. He had one wedding a week, no other jobs - just the weddings. He was paid an average of $800 for a wedding reception, which translates to about $200 per hour - big deal. While he had four hours work a week, most of the bands were working 24 to 28 hours a week. During that same week, the OMB guys are working an average of 5 to 10 jobs a week, depending on how much they wanted to work.

My DJ buddy has about $12,000 tied up in gear, it takes him about an hour to set everything up, while the OMB guy sets up in 10 minutes or less and has less than half that amount tied up in gear. The OMB guy can do three jobs a day, while the DJ is lucky to get one job a week.

My DJ buddy says it seems as if everyone with an I-pad and an amp is competing for the wedding jobs, therefore the number of available jobs has dwindled substantially. Additionally, a lot of young people are now opting for Destination Weddings, often in Mexico, where they can get a great package deal for the flight and wedding plan at an upscale resort. Consequently, most of the large, local, wedding halls are now advertising for business from conventions, which pay them better than weddings.

As I said, DJs are on their way out in this part of the world, KJs have pretty much taken over the American Legions and VFW post entertainment, but when the big events take place, the very first thing the American Legions, VFWs, Amvets and Animal Clubs do is look for a band. NYE, Mother's Day, Valentines Day, Independence Day, Veterans Day, Flag Day, Armed Forces Day, Christmas, etc... - all bands.

I guess things are different above the Mason/Dixon Line, but I doubt if it is that much different. The last time I was at an exibitor's Party at the Jacob Javitz Center during the New York National Boat Show, they had a 6 piece band - not DJ. Same was true for the Philadelphia Boat Show, Norwalk, CT boat show, Chicago Boat Show, etc... Gee, I wonder why those folks didn't opt for a DJ?

All the best,

Gary

Gary I cant agree with you it's an electronic world out there we are dinosaurs who had a great run just playing other people music, I proudly pass the baton same as it was given to me when I was just a kid, good luck to them.......so let's just leave it at that,.... PS so called "Live Music" doesn't always mean GOOD MUSIC......look around you you can't be blind to what's going on out there now. Nobody cares..drink, jump around, scream yell, done, where's my check! When performing becomes and annoyance & a job for the bucks it's time to move on to something else that makes you happy.
That said I'm off to BJs to buy some Yoshida steak sauce you got my BBQ juices flowing snow or not...lol

Gary, were you at the same wedding I was at last month?

I am sure we all could recite chapter and verse about musicians or DJs who are good or bad, cater to an audience or play what they want, have great stage presence or can't talk to an audience, are making money or can't BUY a gig ... the fact is, whether 'live' musician or DJ, in both genres of entertainment there are some VERY good ones and some bad ones, there are some who are making a lot of money and some who aren't, there are some who can please ANY audience, and some who cannot ... we cannot try to define entire situations by what we know through our limited experience ... just enjoy the hell out of what YOU do, because we never know when we won't be doing it ...
And remember - that DJ you heard at that wedding who only catered to a few "drunken bridesmaids" was hired by the bride and groom who probably heard him/her at another wedding and thought it was GREAT ...

Actually our Casino has the entertainment figured out.

Best of both worlds.

The live bands play from 6-10 PM.

10 to ?? the DJ starts, the 21+ crowd come out, and party.

Needless to say , I'm home by 10:30.

Jerryghr

You are right Tony. To be content with what you do has to be enough, and as previously stated finding the right target audience/demographic/venue for your style and content is key to doing that.

I'll agree with Donny that the "hot time" for us is past. More so, the audience for a lot of us is dwindling. Obviously music has historically changed; we don't all change with it. Our generation appreciates music from the past and keeps it alive. My observation, and it is only that, is that the current generation isn't much interested in music that is older than last month....

I asked my twenty something son what the Ratpack was. He thought it was something from White Castle..

First question your should ask a potential client is .."HOW OLD ARE THEY" don't try to be a hero or let your ego go for the money and get caught in a situation of younger music requests you can't play or even know....just some friendly advice, I know it's hard to say NO to the $$$$ but do yourself a favor sometimes you gotta do it or your in for a nightmare gig for yourself, your client, and a night you soon won't forget,......
play within your means and age group always.

Wise advice! We stick with “our crowd” and do well! Everyone has a good experience!!!

Shakespeare couldn't have said that any better than Donny did. It sums it all up in one paragraph.

A friend told me something when I was 16 years old that I never, ever forgot! It was: "everything, good or bad, comes to an end!"

That should have been the 11th Commandment.

Speaking for myself, I also see the handwriting on the wall and it hurts. But it hurts less when I think instead about the many years we were given of good times, good money, and good music (not to mention good women)!

"Potential client!" What is a "potential client?" I had to Google it. As I was read the definition, I recalled somewhere back in another lifetime I think I had "potential clients." I think! I DO remember coming home to phone calls on my answering machine every night. I think! I do remember setting up a computer database to keep track of scheduling. I think!

I don't have to think on this one. Donny made me realize just now I haven't had a "potential client" call me in years. Now I have to chase THEM.

You know, I clearly remember thinking years ago, when I first started.........should I become a full-time musician? I weighed all the aspects carefully before I quit my day job. I reasoned that music will ALWAYS be there and in demand. That if the economy got worse or we had another "Great Depression" like they had in the late 20's, music will be needed and appreciated even more, to keep up everyone's spirits and to occupy them. Boy, was I wrong. As the economy bottomed out, the first thing to go was the Arts. The second thing to go was genuine music and genuine musicians. Thankfully it didn't happen for 50 years!

I play solo,duo, trio all the way up a six piece sometimes a bit more, all with an arranger keyboard. I guess I'm lucky I've never had problems with players following along, even with no in- ear monitors or click tracks. I love that the arranger allows me the flexibility to offer various configurations to fit the clients needs and budget.

And now for a "shameless plug": You can check out my "arranger keyboard centered band" on YouTube. Just follow the link below my signature.

Loved the medley! Nicely done. What did you record on/to?

Hey thanks! It was recorded with a Zoom recorder directly from the Yamaha mixer. Nothing fancy....

Paul you know Im a BIG fan of yours bravo !!


PS I love bachata

Right back at you Donny!

Bachata is big here Dallas, TX and I'm sure it's even more popular on the East Coast.

That Dj is playing for his next job. Who do you think will hire him , the single some day to get married drunk girls haviing a great time or the older crowd in the back complaining because "they can't talk". Every Band and DJ at a wedding is audioining for their next job. Been there done that.

We are on the same page with this, Bill ...

Same here. I always enjoy listening to your silky smooth performances. And the "rhythm section" player/players are outstanding.....love that driving beat. Sax player......very tasty....doesn't overplay.

You already know I'm deep into Latin-American music. Like Donny....Bachata, Merengue, Salsa, Tango, etc. So keep 'em coming.

Mark

Thanks Mark, i always enjoy your work too I and wish my fingers were half as fast as yours!

The sax player is my brother in-law. He is very humble and will appreciate the compliment. He's toured all over the world with Tejano music legend "Little Joe and La Familia" He can play anything he hears and he reads great too. He is now a middle school band director and he's great with the kids, turning many of them on to jazz.

Thank you for posting this. It just put to rest arguments against using an arranger in a band setting Ir surprises me that more keyboardist don't use there kb's in more settings such as this.

Earl

Earl, there was a time when I filled in on a 50/60s oldies band, 5 pieces, and I used the PSR0-3000 for a sax, guitar and trumpet, piano and sometimes, strings with no accompaniment. They had a bass player and a drummer, so I just used the keyboard as a solo instrument. It was a fun job, but the pay was lousy so I stopped doing it.

Gary

Paul, you're an interesting guy, and you have an interesting band, and.......an interesting family. When I see your videos, the first thing I notice, and enjoy, is how happy and relaxed and content and integrated everyone in the group seems to be.

And then, there's...

Little Joe and La Familia Music

Little Joe Y La Familia Las Nubes

Most can play this kind of music, BUT......to play it properly, that's another story. The "fills" alone are priceless. Well thought out, not just thrown in there without any thought. Simple but fall in the right place at the right time. And, the sound itself, the orchestration is very pleasing to the ear.

And then there's Fulanito...3 chords to work with and this accordion player just plain makes the whole song work:




I had two thoughts here and there throughout my life. To become an accordionist in a polka band....and....to give it all up and join a Mexican Mariachi band.

Mark