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#441795 - 12/02/17 09:10 AM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: Uncle Dave]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Musicianship can certainly be entertaining, on it's own, but I'm guessing the OP was referring to the OMB approach, where the audience benefits from a little "nudge" from an EmmCee. Most large scale concerts are all about hype - there's pyrotechnics, extensive lighting, smoke, and video .... all that adds to the entertainment value, but (once again) if you're talking more serious listening environments (jazz, classical), the audience probably doesn't expect too much of a "showman."

I pride myself on being a showman, who's constantly trying to improve my musicianship. They go hand in hand, for me. I have some people fooled into thinking I can even play jazz, although, I won't dare put myself in that category. I have a jazz "feel", but lack serious, trained chops. There are nights when I desperately need to showcase some technique, if only for a song or two. Last night, for example, I played my tenor for 1/2 of the first set, and interspersed it throughout the night, whenever I could. It gave me a more "legit" element to an otherwise sterile (digital) performance. Even with all the improvements that modern keyboards offer, there's still something special about adding an acoustic element to a digital performance. (guitar, sax, even a tambourine helps make it sound more believable) I'll be tantalizing my crowds all month with guitar, bass, uke, mandolin, clarinet, sax, flute, and creative Manhattan Transfer-ish harmonies behind our many guest singers. I see my stage as a mini showcase each night, and the balance between music and schmaltz is adjusted as needed. Every night is different.



Excellent post. Lotta good stuff in there; read it twice. I like that it doesn't try to push one side over another, but merely explains HIS approach to the balance between showmanship and musicianship (and there always IS a balance). It's great to have the skills on both sides of the equation to make those adjustments (as UD does), but if you consider yourself a MUSICAL entertainer and you're really weak in the MUSICAL side of it, all the ENTERTAINING skills in the world are not going to hide it. For pure 'musicians', the music IS the entertainment. Dave's example of 'jazz' and 'classical' illustrates that very nicely. Everything has value; it depends on what the audience is there for.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#441802 - 12/02/17 10:43 AM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: travlin'easy]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
In the decades I have been on this forum, I have ALWAYS said that I am not a musician, but instead, a musical entertainer. I can play a guitar, harmonica and mandolin, but I really enjoy playing the keyboard and singing to the ladies. And, I guess I have just enough musicianship to fool the audiences into thinking I am a musician as well as a singer/entertainer. Now that I am retired, I post a song once in a while, just for the fun and enjoyment of still being able to do what I did when I was working every day.

By and large, I sincerely believe that our audiences just want to be entertained.

Cheers,

Gary cool
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#441809 - 12/02/17 01:08 PM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: travlin'easy]
J. Larry Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 521
Loc: University, MS 38677 USA
I like the point that most listeners just want to be entertained. Or, certainly not overwhelmed by loud music, in my case. I try my best within the limits of what I can do and let it ride. Most of the time, things go well. In truth, how often do we play in front of music critics, or those highly trained in music theory and all the rest? Not here. However, I do get a few retired band directors and a few music professors in my audience. Most seem appreciative of what they hear, while dining. And, I’m basically self-taught. I’ve never had anyone say, “You really messed up those chord changes on All The Things You Are.” Maybe they’re just being nice.

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#441813 - 12/02/17 01:50 PM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: travlin'easy]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I can only recall once when someone came up to me and said "That song was not written or performed in "G" - the original was in "D" " I calmly replied to him, well my bullfrog voice will not let me sing it in "D"! He smiled and walked back to his table and continued to get plastered.

Sure has been a fun ride,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#441814 - 12/02/17 01:55 PM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: travlin'easy]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I had a "musician" tell me I was playing a wrong chord in "For The Good Times" a couple of weeks ago.
I told him that I was aware that a lot of people used an augmented chord instead of the standard five/seventh in the chorus, but that I had heard Kris Kristopherson do it in person and I was playing it the way he wrote it. smile
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DonM

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#441822 - 12/02/17 04:24 PM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: travlin'easy]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
If I'm the only one on stage - I CANNOT play a wrong note, or chord. It's all a personal, poetic license that only the performer can orchestrate. The know-it-all who "corrected" you .... quite simply is WRONG.
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#441823 - 12/02/17 05:13 PM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: Uncle Dave]
captain Russ Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I have probably made more references to "entertainer vs. musician" than anyone.

I am a musician by choice. I choose to play dining rooms, where volume and song selection are more important than banter.

I choose to do studio work because it pays lots better and everyone leaves me alone to do my job.

In the studio, I'm completing the score, but also have written the script, shot the critical frames, done the storyboards, etc.

Playing live, I'd rather play for 25 jazz listeners than 2,000
drunks or party people.

I feel I have an obligation to educate. All it takes is one listener converting to, say Forplay type music, or to develop an appreciation for a song like "In the Wee Small Hours of the morning", "When Sunny Gets Blue", "Spring can really hang you up",....any one of thousands of tunes that have respectable structure and meaning.

But folks, that's me. I LOVE a good musical entertainer.

I just don't want to be one.

And so far, things have worked out.


Be well, all,


Russ (tired of bland soup) Lay

PS: guess you figured out the diverticulitis is much better.

I'M HUNGRY!



Edited by captain Russ (12/02/17 05:15 PM)

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#441827 - 12/02/17 06:55 PM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: captain Russ]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By captain Russ
guess you figured out the diverticulitis is much better.



So I guess this means I'm not getting the B3 and the Cushman any time soon? Dang.

smile

chas

PS: Glad you're feeling better.
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#441828 - 12/02/17 10:21 PM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: travlin'easy]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I'm waiting on a Cushman too Chas. He'll most likely outlive us both! smile
And I hope he does!
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DonM

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#441831 - 12/03/17 04:52 AM Re: Musician or entertainer... [Re: DonM]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By DonM
I'm waiting on a Cushman too Chas. He'll most likely outlive us both! smile
And I hope he does!


Of course he will. "Only the good (that's us, Don) die young" smile smile.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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