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#400066 - 03/01/15 07:08 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: cgiles]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6632
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Originally Posted By: Bachus

What point are you rrying to make.... That using ipads on stage makes you a bad player?



Not at all. Only YOU can make you a bad player. To me, standing on stage scrolling through an iphone (in Gary's example) for five minutes, is more detrimental to a performance than just saying "we don't have that song prepared, could we do another for you" or something like that. JMO. Don't get upset.

chas
as i said, you missed the whole point about this ipad post... Its about using the ipad as an expresive part of your performance.. Which you fail to see as your reaction indicates..
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#400068 - 03/01/15 07:49 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: Bachus]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Ok, I admit that my post was more a reaction to Gary's description of a guy scrolling through an ipad for five minutes in the middle of a performance. If an Ipad enhances your performance, I'm for it, if it contributes to the kind of situation described above, I'm against it. Clear? BTW, your response to Gary's post seemed reasonable, yet your response to my post seemed (to me) rather hostile. Yet, I was merely agreeing with his point. So is it the message or the messenger? In my world, everyone has a right to an opinion, whether you agree with it or not.

So, did I miss the point of your post? Not really. It's just that I wasn't responding to YOUR post, I was responding to a comment another poster had made. That happens on a forum. Get used to it.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#400069 - 03/01/15 07:56 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39588
Loc: NJ
1 2 cha cha cha

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#400070 - 03/01/15 08:43 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: Bachus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bachus, Not only have I've seen this take place at this venue, I've seen it at several venues during the past several weeks. The band members all have I-pads and Iphones, and they are mounted on flimsy music stands in front of the player/performer. The band leader says "OK, we're going to play an often requested song by The Eagles. Hotel California." At that point the band members are all scrolling, looking at tiny print, trying to find Hotel California. Those flimsy stands are rocking back and forth as the players try to tap those touch screens and hit the correct area, which is damned near impossible from what I saw.

My point is that all of this could have easily and efficiently accomplished using a netbook PC, and at about the same price. However, the netbook has all the features of of a PC and does not need apps to accomplish those goals. Netbooks are very easy to navigate using a touch-pad, or a wireless mini-mouse, which can easily be concealed. Additionally, you can have more than one screen opened at a time and still be able to read the printed information on the screen.

Now, maybe I'm old and cantankerous, but I still embrace technology when it's beneficial to my onstage performances. That's why I use an arranger keyboard, netbook, vocal processor, and other devices that not only make me sound good, but in addition, keep that music flowing throughout the performance. The guy playing the guitar, fiddle, sax, trumpet etc... was unable to get to his I-pad while playing and singing. He had to wait till he had finished that song, then go to the I-pad to select the next one. He was a reader and without that sheet music right in front of him he was lost. Additionally, he had no method of scrolling the sheets, so he had to quickly reach up and tap the screen while playing in order to get to the next page. None of these things seem very beneficial to me, an onstage entertainer/performer/musician. I would love to see one I-pad or I-Phone in action where this phenomena has not happened - but to date, this has not happened. All of this technology is neat stuff, but some of it just does not appeal to those of us that perform daily onstage in front of audiences.

All the best,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#400071 - 03/01/15 09:37 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: travlin'easy]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6632
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Bachus, Not only have I've seen this take place at this venue, I've seen it at several venues during the past several weeks. The band members all have I-pads and Iphones, and they are mounted on flimsy music stands in front of the player/performer. The band leader says "OK, we're going to play an often requested song by The Eagles. Hotel California." At that point the band members are all scrolling, looking at tiny print, trying to find Hotel California. Those flimsy stands are rocking back and forth as the players try to tap those touch screens and hit the correct area, which is damned near impossible from what I saw.

My point is that all of this could have easily and efficiently accomplished using a netbook PC, and at about the same price. However, the netbook has all the features of of a PC and does not need apps to accomplish those goals. Netbooks are very easy to navigate using a touch-pad, or a wireless mini-mouse, which can easily be concealed. Additionally, you can have more than one screen opened at a time and still be able to read the printed information on the screen.

Now, maybe I'm old and cantankerous, but I still embrace technology when it's beneficial to my onstage performances. That's why I use an arranger keyboard, netbook, vocal processor, and other devices that not only make me sound good, but in addition, keep that music flowing throughout the performance. The guy playing the guitar, fiddle, sax, trumpet etc... was unable to get to his I-pad while playing and singing. He had to wait till he had finished that song, then go to the I-pad to select the next one. He was a reader and without that sheet music right in front of him he was lost. Additionally, he had no method of scrolling the sheets, so he had to quickly reach up and tap the screen while playing in order to get to the next page. None of these things seem very beneficial to me, an onstage entertainer/performer/musician. I would love to see one I-pad or I-Phone in action where this phenomena has not happened - but to date, this has not happened. All of this technology is neat stuff, but some of it just does not appeal to those of us that perform daily onstage in front of audiences.

All the best,

Gary cool


Again there is no difference between an ipad and a netbook in finding things if you are trained at it... If the players are trained at it, they can easilly find what they need on an ipad, as easy as on a netbook..

And again thats not what we are discussing here, just look the bloody videos... Its not about selecting bloody music pages, its about having creative tools on your ipad that actually are helpfull creating music..

For example as described above... I created a chordsequencer on my ipad that works perfectly well together with my T5.. And takes 2 secconds to open..
_________________________
Yamaha Genos and Modx 8, MFC10, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#400072 - 03/01/15 10:11 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39588
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Bachus, Not only have I've seen this take place at this venue, I've seen it at several venues during the past several weeks. The band members all have I-pads and Iphones, and they are mounted on flimsy music stands in front of the player/performer. The band leader says "OK, we're going to play an often requested song by The Eagles. Hotel California." At that point the band members are all scrolling, looking at tiny print, trying to find Hotel California. Those flimsy stands are rocking back and forth as the players try to tap those touch screens and hit the correct area, which is damned near impossible from what I saw.

My point is that all of this could have easily and efficiently accomplished using a netbook PC, and at about the same price. However, the netbook has all the features of of a PC and does not need apps to accomplish those goals. Netbooks are very easy to navigate using a touch-pad, or a wireless mini-mouse, which can easily be concealed. Additionally, you can have more than one screen opened at a time and still be able to read the printed information on the screen.

Now, maybe I'm old and cantankerous, but I still embrace technology when it's beneficial to my onstage performances. That's why I use an arranger keyboard, netbook, vocal processor, and other devices that not only make me sound good, but in addition, keep that music flowing throughout the performance. The guy playing the guitar, fiddle, sax, trumpet etc... was unable to get to his I-pad while playing and singing. He had to wait till he had finished that song, then go to the I-pad to select the next one. He was a reader and without that sheet music right in front of him he was lost. Additionally, he had no method of scrolling the sheets, so he had to quickly reach up and tap the screen while playing in order to get to the next page. None of these things seem very beneficial to me, an onstage entertainer/performer/musician. I would love to see one I-pad or I-Phone in action where this phenomena has not happened - but to date, this has not happened. All of this technology is neat stuff, but some of it just does not appeal to those of us that perform daily onstage in front of audiences.

All the best,

Gary cool


DITTO Gary

LAPTOPS RULE on Stage NAVIGATIONALY....IMO!


Edited by Dnj (03/01/15 10:22 AM)

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#400073 - 03/01/15 10:17 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: Bachus]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15630
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I probably did 20-25 requests last night. Didn't have to Google anything, but there are occasions when I get a request, maybe for a song I sort of know, but don't remember the words. When I have time I will look it up and if I think I can do it, I will. This has often made me an extra $20. If it's something I don't feel I can do justice to, I will wait until break and play an MP3 of it while I go pee. smile
My situation is rather unique though. People are dining and a few get up and dance. For the most part they want to hear memories of good times in their lives. Very seldom do I feel the need to go instantly from song to song, "keeping them on the dance floor". In fact, the guys don't want to stay out there for more than a song or two! We're talking older rich people, as a rule. (I CAN go from song to song with nearly zero time between, but this is not the setting for it most of the time).
I use a very small laptop for lyrics/chords, but sometimes go for an hour or two without looking at it. I also use it to play music on my breaks. I could do all this with the keyboard, but lt makes it easier. I do have about 100 songs set up in my Songbook list on the keyboard. This is just to speed up finding the appropriate style, tempo, etc. They are all songs I KNOW I will be expected to do most nights. They include generic setups for all genres as well.
I tried using a tablet, but as suggested, I believe the real advantage of that would be the apps available, and for the creative side of making music.
At this point in my career I mostly play songs I already know. But if I were younger, I would most likely totally embrace any new technology that added to my craft.
There is a young girl who plays piano and sings at the place I work. She knows some songs from memory, but most of them she reads from an Iphone. She has a list and generally goes from song to song with little fuss. I have seen her spend a couple of minutes looking for a requested song that is "out of order". I suppose her eyes are better than mine, because the phone is lying flat on top of her electric piano and really can't be seen from the audience.
I think mostly what she does is new stuff, because most of them I don't recognize--Adele, Lada Gaga, etc. Most requests from this crowd, she just doesn't know and can't do, because she's never even heard of them. I have a 40+ year experience advantage. Also, since she just plays piano, there is no real "beat" to dance to. As a rule, when she plays the people eat, get up and leave. I am able to keep lots of them hanging around and have an after dinner drink or two. Drinks are about $15. each, so if I can keep them for an extra round that adds up very nicely for the establishment.
I know this is rambling way off topic, but I guess it all is somewhat related. There are so many layers of technology and so many great innovations. We can embrace what aspects that are best suited for what we need, from basic piano to really no limit.
As I sit here thinking about last night, some of the requests come to mind. Might be interesting to some: Fly Me To The Moon, Satin Doll, Stand By Me, Wonderful Tonight, Don't Close Your Eyes, To Make You Feel My Love, Spooky, Marie LaVeaux, Almost Like A Song, The Way You Look Tonight, Long Tall Sally (Her name must have been Sally!), You Are My Sunshine, Unchained Melody, Green Onions... and many more. I think it takes an old person to pull this off! smile
Sorry for rambling Bachus!
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DonM

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#400074 - 03/01/15 10:25 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: Bachus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I watched the videos - everything appeared slow and cumbersome, and for the life of me I really didn't see a good application for a live, onstage performer. The dead time between changes was horrendous. Maybe there is something I'm missing. Show me examples of something done live, onstage, with a performer. The videos appeared to be someone sitting in a studio with a video camera trained on what he was doing to create sounds, but nothing along the lines of what an entertainer would do in a live situation. So, enlighten me, show me a real world situations where a performer, or better yet, an entire band could REALLY benefit from having an I-Phone in front of them while playing an instrument. I would really like to see this.

Good luck,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#400075 - 03/01/15 10:45 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: travlin'easy]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6632
i give up......


Take this...





The first one that recognises a music reader in this video gets a free ride to the alzheimer center...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos and Modx 8, MFC10, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#400076 - 03/01/15 10:45 AM Re: What can an ipad do for you? [Re: Bachus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Don, you and I are both pretty damned old - and we think a lot alike. However, most of the jobs I do involve dancers, even the restaurant/nite club jobs. This past Friday, I had lots of requests, and it only took a few seconds for me to search through the music finder, hit the keys and I was fast into the song. And, like you, I manage to keep those patrons in their chairs sipping on expensive drinks long after they've finished their over-priced meals. This keeps the management happy, keeps the patrons happy and drinking, and keeps my paychecks flowing, which keeps me very happy.

Ive traveled extensively throughout the US, making a point to see as many entertainers as possible and take note of what they do right, and what they do wrong. Over the decades, I've learned a lot from live, onstage entertainers such as Don Mason, Ed Shoemaker, Donny Pesce, Dave Boyd, Fran Carango, Jimmy McKinney, Bob Lee, Jerry Burns, Helmut Licht, and many, many others. And, most of them will tell you they've learned a few things from me, but I can guarantee you it's not nearly as much as I've learned from them. By and large, we are onstage performers/entertainers/musicians, individuals that make all, or at least a portion of the living from show biz. We share a lot of information, especially technical information that will help improve our onstage performances. We ARE NOT primarily studio types who spend endless hours creating each sound and each and every song - we usually leave that stuff to hobbyists who seem to have more time on their hands, and tend to be more technology oriented.

All the best,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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