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#392274 - 08/27/14 06:07 PM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Senior Member Registered: 12/08/02 Posts: 15560 Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA	Chas, unfortunately, a lot of what you posted has already taken place, especially when it comes to younger people. There's no instant gratification with any instrument, thus my friend's music teaching rooms (15 of them) at his store no longer have a waiting list. In some ways, I guess keyboards, like many things that require some degree of effort to learn, will eventually give way to things that take little or no effort to provide the same end means. And, yes, if the vocals are good to excellent, the audiences really don't care where the music comes from. Hell, everyone has been hoodwinked to believing that we, as OMB entertainers, are just doing karaoke and not really playing the arranger at all. This has always amazed me. Cheers, Gary _________________________ PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff! K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#392336 - 08/29/14 06:22 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Senior Member Registered: 07/27/05 Posts: 10606 Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada	I feel that arranger manufacturers are struggling to come up with new and more groundbreaking features to generate more interest. In my case, the Tyros4 will quite likely be my last arranger keyboard as it has everything to suit my needs. The Tyros5, in my opinion, is just a T4 with audio drum based styles and a few other newish features, (although the Ensemble feature is quite nice), and it wasn't worth the upgrade, at least to me. If the interest in arrangers hasn't actually died out, I feel that it peaked somewhat a few years ago, and is on a decline of sorts. All arrangers are hobby based instruments in my estimation, although some enterprising and creative performers managed to use them in professional ways. I do know that the arranger provided me with a lot of work that I may not have got just using traditional keyboards. Ian _________________________ Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#392338 - 08/29/14 07:17 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By: travlin'easy Hell, everyone has been hoodwinked to believing that we, as OMB entertainers, are just doing karaoke and not really playing the arranger at all. This has always amazed me. Gary hey what do you expect when the layman audience sees & hears one person sitting there and hears a Whole band playing it doesnt add up in the uneducated persons mind . Lets be honest all were doing is operating an automatic computerized music player or sorts and controlling parts just like a Dj would do which is mainstream now. The playing the keys part just doesn't register in peoples minds. When you see a band you know & see each player is doing something separate on stage. Nothing to be amazed about just accept it for what it is & create music in any way you desire.
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#392342 - 08/29/14 09:01 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: Dnj]
tony mads usa Senior Member Registered: 01/16/02 Posts: 14376 Loc: East Greenwich RI USA	Originally Posted By: Dnj Lets be honest all were doing is operating an automatic computerized music player or sorts and controlling parts just like a Dj would do which is mainstream now. I respectfully disagree, Donny, in that while I may be "operating an automatic computerized music player or sorts and controlling parts" , it is MY PLAYING that is doing that ... if I screw up, that computerized music player screws up as well ... And even though FORBES list of "Top Earning Musicians" includes several DJs - at earnings of well over $50 million for the year - I will not include them as 'musicians' in my thinking ... When I go out for musical entertainment, I look for 'live musicians', even if it is a OMB, over a DJ ... I respect the fact that you and several others on this forum have had to incorporate DJing into your entertainment profile in order to keep up with current trends and continue to make a living in the music field, but I am just as happy that I am at a stage in MY life where doing that is not necessary ... _________________________ t.
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#392343 - 08/29/14 09:03 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: tony mads usa]
DonM Senior Member Registered: 06/25/99 Posts: 16735 Loc: Benton, LA, USA	Originally Posted By: tony mads usa Originally Posted By: Dnj Lets be honest all were doing is operating an automatic computerized music player or sorts and controlling parts just like a Dj would do which is mainstream now. I respectfully disagree, Donny, in that while I may be "operating an automatic computerized music player or sorts and controlling parts" , it is MY PLAYING that is doing that ... if I screw up, that computerized music player screws up as well ... And even though FORBES list of "Top Earning Musicians" includes several DJs - at earnings of well over $50 million for the year - I will not include them as 'musicians' in my thinking ... When I go out for musical entertainment, I look for 'live musicians', even if it is a OMB, over a DJ ... I respect the fact that you and several others on this forum have had to incorporate DJing into your entertainment profile in order to keep up with current trends and continue to make a living in the music field, but I am just as happy that I am at a stage in MY life where doing that is not necessary ... Amen! _________________________ DonM
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#392347 - 08/29/14 09:51 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: DonM]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By: DonM Originally Posted By: tony mads usa Originally Posted By: Dnj Lets be honest all were doing is operating an automatic computerized music player or sorts and controlling parts just like a Dj would do which is mainstream now. I respectfully disagree, Donny, in that while I may be "operating an automatic computerized music player or sorts and controlling parts" , it is MY PLAYING that is doing that ... if I screw up, that computerized music player screws up as well ... And even though FORBES list of "Top Earning Musicians" includes several DJs - at earnings of well over $50 million for the year - I will not include them as 'musicians' in my thinking ... When I go out for musical entertainment, I look for 'live musicians', even if it is a OMB, over a DJ ... I respect the fact that you and several others on this forum have had to incorporate DJing into your entertainment profile in order to keep up with current trends and continue to make a living in the music field, but I am just as happy that I am at a stage in MY life where doing that is not necessary ... Amen! Exactly Don but no one cares or do they know what your doing up on stage & why should they? It's only what they hear that matters. Operating computers is what we do in any way shape or form which still takes talent of which no one understands but the player. I think 30 years of arranger kb playing is not a bad record we had a good run so far... but all things come to an end and Arranger KB will soon face this in one way or another to make room for the next greatest form of musical creation. Denial wont change anything..... just keep on doing what we do, what ever way we do, and enjoy it.
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#392351 - 08/29/14 10:37 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: Dnj]
spalding1968 Senior Member Registered: 09/19/08 Posts: 1264 Loc: United Kingdom	From as long as I have been a member of the zone ,the death of these keyboards has been prophesied. But there are very strong reasons why they are unlikely to die out just yet . In fact workstations and performance keyboards are more likely to die out before arranger keyboards do because of the availability and integration of iPads and various apps . The arranger keyboard market is dominated by folks who in general 1. are not technologically proficient. 2. Are incredibly loyal to brands 3. Like new innovations but not so widely different to what they already have 4. And have the desire and the money to upgrade their keyboard everysingle time a new addition comes out and lastly 5. routinely do so every single time a new addition comes out. What is likely to happen is that the pure arranger market will become less diversified Meaning that the likes of Roland will probably disappear and we will be left with Yamaha korg and possibly ketron or even a new company coming into the market I predicted a few years ago that arranger keyboards would morph into workstation crossbreeds. And certainly we have seen this in the likes of the motif and the Fantom the kurzweil pc3 etc . Arrangers will update but not die for sometime to come . Edited by spalding1968 (08/29/14 10:42 AM)
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#392352 - 08/29/14 10:40 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Senior Member Registered: 07/27/05 Posts: 10606 Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada	Looking at the latest uploads by Jim and Rico, I seem to see someone actually playing rather than "operating a computer"...these guys, like many of us here, are "players" and certainly not DJ or Karaoke style players/singers. All it takes is one or two to give the rest a bad name. The arranger keyboard, in the right hands, is still a wonderfully expressive, and personal instrument. Ian _________________________ Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#392354 - 08/29/14 10:57 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: spalding1968]
abacus Senior Member Registered: 07/21/05 Posts: 5347 Loc: English Riviera, UK	Originally Posted By: spalding1968 From as long as I have been a member of the zone ,the death of these keyboards has been prophesied. But there are very strong reasons why they are unlikely to die out just yet . In fact workstations and performance keyboards are more likely to die out before arranger keyboards do because of the availability and integration of iPads and various apps . The arranger keyboard market is dominated by folks who in general 1. are not technologically proficient. 2. Are incredibly loyal to brands 3. Like new innovations but not so widely different to what they already have 4. And have the desire and the money to upgrade their keyboard everysingle time a new addition comes out and lastly 5. routinely do so every single time a new addition comes out. What is likely to happen is that the pure arranger market will become less diversified Meaning that the likes of Roland will probably disappear and we will be left with Yamaha korg and possibly ketron or even a new company coming into the market I predicted a few years ago that arranger keyboards would morph into workstation crossbreeds. And certainly we have seen this in the likes of the motif and the Fantom the kurzweil pc3 etc . Arrangers will update but not die for sometime to come . Exactly the same was said about the electronic organ market, (The Arranger keyboard came from the easy play features of the electronic organ) however they have now moved into a niche market with a limited number of manufactures, (they certainly haven�t died though) and I expect the Arranger keyboard to follow in their footsteps. (They won�t die they will just become niche as a new type of instrument takes over) I seriously doubt if Workstations and Arrangers will merge either as they are designed for two completely different types of market. (Home & Pro) Bill _________________________ English Riviera: Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).
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#392358 - 08/29/14 11:18 AM Re: Have Arranger KBs died out ? [Re: abacus]
Bachus Senior Member Registered: 03/02/06 Posts: 7143	Originally Posted By: abacus Originally Posted By: spalding1968 From as long as I have been a member of the zone ,the death of these keyboards has been prophesied. But there are very strong reasons why they are unlikely to die out just yet . In fact workstations and performance keyboards are more likely to die out before arranger keyboards do because of the availability and integration of iPads and various apps . The arranger keyboard market is dominated by folks who in general 1. are not technologically proficient. 2. Are incredibly loyal to brands 3. Like new innovations but not so widely different to what they already have 4. And have the desire and the money to upgrade their keyboard everysingle time a new addition comes out and lastly 5. routinely do so every single time a new addition comes out. What is likely to happen is that the pure arranger market will become less diversified Meaning that the likes of Roland will probably disappear and we will be left with Yamaha korg and possibly ketron or even a new company coming into the market I predicted a few years ago that arranger keyboards would morph into workstation crossbreeds. And certainly we have seen this in the likes of the motif and the Fantom the kurzweil pc3 etc . Arrangers will update but not die for sometime to come . Exactly the same was said about the electronic organ market, (The Arranger keyboard came from the easy play features of the electronic organ) however they have now moved into a niche market with a limited number of manufactures, (they certainly haven�t died though) and I expect the Arranger keyboard to follow in their footsteps. (They won�t die they will just become niche as a new type of instrument takes over) I seriously doubt if Workstations and Arrangers will merge either as they are designed for two completely different types of market. (Home & Pro) Bill Its not only arrangers.... Its also workstations and synthesizers.. In a few years we will see fully software solutions like Varranger... All you need by then is a masterkeyboard controller... A PC.....And a huge touchscreen.. To get the best quallity.. Arrangers will fall back to their beginning days as childrens toys.. _________________________ Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro. http://keyszone.boards.net
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