No SA2 voices...
Same keybed as PSR S910. (MOX has "Semi Weighted") S950 has "Organ Style"

Still only 2 voices in the Upper (not 3 like Tyros)

It has an Aux in Jack for IPOD connectivity

Only 25 styles with audio drums.
I wonder if users will be able to replace MIDI drums from the styles, with the new audio drums like in the Audya.

As expected, specs are almost like the T3 for the 950 and for the 750 its like the 910. Surprisingly the specs don`t mention SA2 voices.But the big feature here is the introduction of audio styles. They mention 25 such styles in the 950. Hope there is a provision to buy and load more of these. Speakers are now 30w instead of 24w

Sounds great on paper... demos should give us an idea of the new features. Cmon Yamaha.. Keep `em coming !!

From the information I received from Yamaha last week yes there is a provision for adding more audio styles.

The specs do say there are now 62 super articulation which is about double the 910 and more "live" voice sounds as well

From what I've read though, the new audio styles will ONLY come from Yamaha, and will be released on their schedule...

Take a look at how few new styles Yamaha release right now that don't even NEED the audio style feature (which adds considerably to the complexity of producing them), and this new feature seems to be meeting my expectations. Yamaha once again go the proprietary route, and dole out new content in dribs and drabs.

408 styles, and only 25 that even USE their new feature? I am afraid I am unimpressed.

And how many audio styles can you really put on 64mb.
I think Yamaha is just testing ground with guinea pigs(players)at our expense. I guess everything is the same.Give us on the spoon.Bit by bit.

Its their way of protection from sharing styles on other kbs...

The thing is, Donny, if Yamaha HAVE worked out how to protect their styles (which you know I am in agreement with), surely that should mean they can make MORE of them, secure in the knowledge that they ARE going to make their money back (and a tidy profit), rather than the copyfest crapshoot that making them nowadays usually is?

Once a guaranteed income is secured, this ought to mean a vast increase in production. This has NOT been the case though. TBH, I've seen other companies produce more FREE styles (Roland Brazil has been very productive creating free styles for that region) than Yamaha have made even with a secure income stream for them.

I am dismayed by how wrong Yamaha get this concept. At the very least, a proprietary format and a secure delivery system should ensure MORE content is available, not less. It is like Yamaha have been determined to take the worse of BOTH systems! At least an open system would assure tons of (albeit lower quality) user styles, but with no protection and revenue for the producers. But with a proprietary system AND a miserly delivery pace, Yamaha snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

So is this mean we can pretty much use any freely available drum loops and use it on the new PSR 950? That would be nice!

NO... from what I have read so far, the audio loop STYLES are Yamaha proprietary format.

However, you can add audio loops in .WAV format via USB stick as Multipads. But these can't really be used as full style drums, not being able to have fills and Variations functioning like normal styles.

As of yet, there is also no information about how long it takes to load the 64MB of Flash memory, where the audio loop styles are stored. So, if you need to load in extra styles (once Yamaha make and market them), no information is yet available (AFAIK) as too whether this is practical on a gig or not.

There's a lot of information that is so far missing as to how practical this new feature is.

Really? An iPOD?

Either the information supplied here is wrong, or perhaps you meant the s950 has a direct connection with an iPAD?

I only noticed an AUX In and nothing about iPod or Ipad

Anyway, somewhat interesting...

What is the difference between Freeplay, Pro and Session styles?

Does all the older styles for example the styles of the psr 9000 work on this arranger?

Oh thanks! It would be nice if they could let us use our own drum loops without any limitations. But I guess we will have to wait n see.

Hey Larry,

Aux in - so u can buy a 3.5 stereo Ipod/ipad jack on both ends to do audio out from an Ipod to the PSR.

The keyboard also has MIDI connectivity to an iPad, iPod, or iPhone. According to the website:

With Yamaha’s i-MX1 MIDI interface for iPhone, iPod and iPad, you can experience a new dimension of MIDI control with apps like Yamaha’s Scale Tuner, Piano Diary or Faders & XY Pad.

I figured it had to be more than just a hookup for iPod audio

Everything seems to be moving forward ...

The Good:

Thanks to Yamaha’s new Voice & Style Expansion packs, players can take advantage of a wide and ever-increasing selection of authentic sounding Voices and Styles from around the world. Load them to the PSR-S950's built-in FlashROM (64MB) and instantly play authentic sounds, rhythm and backing in the musical style of your choice!

The Bad:

This instrument allows you to install only one Expansion Pack.
Installing an Expansion Pack will erase all the previously existing Expansion Pack data in the instrument. Make sure to keep a copy of the Expansion Pack data in a USB flash memory for future use.

The instrument will be restarted when installation is completed.
Save all the data currently being edited beforehand, otherwise
the data will be lost.

So the 64mb is good for only one expansion pack. It doesn't take any time to load, according to George Kaye. If you want to change expansion packs you have to go through menus, and load a different one and then restart the keyboard - impossible during a live performance. Owning more than one expansion pack would probably be of interest to just home keyboard players.

This limitation sounds very frustrating.

I'm psyched about

1) The 60 new SA, Mega, Live, Cool, and Sweet voices.
2) The Live Audio Drums
3) The Real Drum kit
4) The new guitar technology that's hinted at
5) The improved vocal harmonizer
6) The ability to interface an Apple device
7) The better onboard speakers
8) The ability to add some new voices via the Expansion Pack

I'm disappointed by

1) Only 5 new Mega voices. Mega! voices are the voices that bring the styles alive.
2) The live audio drums being featured on so few new styles
3) No Real Brush kit
4) No Mega Choir or SA Choir voices
5) No SA2 voices
6) No new buttons and the buttons crammed together more because of the new speakers
7) You can only have one expansion pack loaded. Otherwise you have to go through a big process and restart the instrument.
8) A higher price

It's enough of an improvement that I'm going to upgrade, but outside of the Live Drums and the improved vocal harmonizer, it's pretty much Tyros 3 technology which is 5 years old. The Tyros 3 has about the same amount of special voices than the PSR-S950 has plus 11 SA2 voices.

Also disappointed by no new additional DSP's. There are about 20 new presets, and it will be interesting to see what they are.

But I'm afraid that a lot of the T4 styles won't sound much better in the new keyboard because of the lack of DSP's and new voices.

the fact it still uses the same PSR keybed is also a massive CON for me and simply deters me away from even considering this keyboard.

I know I keep going back to this but...The MOX 6 is a cheap lightweight portable synth (much cheaper than PSR S950 AND S750) that has a keybed which is Amazingly better than the PSR keybed. WHY ARE THEY NOT USING THIS KEYBED IN THE PSR LINE MOVING FORWARD???

It is refreshing to see that the new Concert Grand piano from the T3 (almost exact same as T4) has been used... BUT... none of the new real strings, SA 2 Violins, Irish Pipe Air, Choirs, Vintage Basses etc have been carried on... its still not even 100% on par with T3 which by now it should be (S910 was on par with T2 in terms of sound engine except the drums weren't "Live drums")...

Its also time for the TOTL PSR Range to have assignable function buttons and/or faders (Korg PA 500 has this for goodness sakes!!!)

Drum kit editing should be a must these days as well!!!

my 2 cents, Yamaha frustrate me so much !!

-Nick

No LAN port for IDC (Internet Direct Connection). Not a big deal - but it does come in handy with Music Finder suggestions.

I'm surprised that after a 3 year wait that they are adding only 5 Mega! voices and no SA2 voices from the T3. No additional DSP blocks ...

I would think that Yamaha would want to create a market for their expansion packs, but I'm definitely not buying more than one if I'm going to have to go through a menu process and restart my keyboard to change expansion packs. Imagine doing that during a performance!

Is it confirmed you have to restart the keyboard to load another expansion pack in? I don't think that is all that likely, IMHO.

How long it takes, though, is another matter.

It is confirmed. It's on page 36 of the manual. How long does it take? Does it matter if it takes 30 seconds or 3 minutes? It would ruin a performance. Owning more than one expansion would probably just be of interest to a home player.

It would be so frustrating to own more than one expansion, and to know during a performance that you cannot take advantage of those voices and those styles because it's not loaded on your measly 64mb Expansion slot, and you'd have to turn your keyboard off and on (the keyboard restarts during the process) in order to play them.

Here again are the two quotes from page 36:

This instrument allows you to
install only one Expansion Pack.
Installing an Expansion Pack will
erase all the previously existing
Expansion Pack data in the
instrument. Make sure to keep a
copy of the Expansion Pack data
in a USB flash memory for future
use.

The instrument will be restarted
when installation is completed.
Save all the data currently being
edited beforehand, otherwise
the data will be lost.

Yikes!

It is looking more and more like Yamaha have rushed this feature out unpolished and unfinished, rather than doing what they usually do, and perfect it for the Tyros series and let it trickle down, mature and well-developed a year or so later.

It definitely seems to cry out for the 1-2GB FLASH memory capabilities that the TOTL Yamaha's have, rather than a miserly 64MB, of little value if you are going to fill it up with audio.

64MB of flash memory would have been a great addition to the MOTL and BOTL to store MIDI styles in and have them instantly available, but if it is used up with audio, you are back to square one in needing to load up styles into the PSR like before.

I still think the USB stick loading of .WAV's for Multi-pad use is the cherry on this sundae. You should be able to do some SERIOUS modern loop production with these (most modern music is much more in chunks, without fills anyway) and break free from the time capsule arrangers seem to have got painted into.

Not a good omen, though. Both Yamaha and Ketron seemed to have stumbled, trying to mate audio loops with conventional arrangers. Firstly, it is always a question of CONTENT. 25 styles out of 400+ for the Yamaha (and apparently, an impractical loading procedure for new ones) and not exactly a blistering pace of new styles from Ketron (though FAR more initially, in their defense).

Then virtually closed systems, so next to impossible to make your own (lots of incredibly good drumloop libraries out there) to take up the slack the manufacturer leaves.

Two strikes, and the bases are loaded. Time to bring in a designated hitter!

hey in their eyes for the "home player" using a "home keyboard" "whats the rush to load?..

Hey Donny - have you ever looked at the back of your Korg PA 500??

On the model number label it reads "FOR HOME OR OFFICE USE ONLY".... interesting isn't it?

Nick

Yeah Nick......funny how we use these home keyboards in such creative ways eh? LOL

I don't care if it is a home keyboard because I only play at home

The 64mb isn't for samples. It's for (I think) stuff like Premium Packs that have additional voices and styles. But instead of being able to get a 2GB Simm and stuff many Premium Packs onto it (they are pricey though) you can only put one at a time on the S950.

I have to say that by creating this limitation, I feel a little dissed and annoyed.

I guess that whenever Yamaha comes out with these middle of the line arrangers they strategize on what to keep out so that people with $$ buy the TOTL model.

I suspect that next year when Yamaha comes out with the T4 replacement, the keyboard will have many more styles with audio drums. It must be labor intensive to only put them on 25 styles.

I agree with you. 64 MB is far too less.. I guess a cup of nescafe and a slice of cake costs more than the cost of 64 MB memory
64 MB USB Drive

May be the samples are compressed very well to enable a lot of stuff inside that 64MB without compromising quality. I know that the Roland`s have very good compression without compromising much on the quality Eg: G-70 has excellent sounds.. more than 1300 in their 192 MB of Waverom. But then again, it would be nice to have atleast 2 Expansion Packs/ atleast 512 MB of user sampling in the MOTL; the S650 allows one ExpansionPack so the 950 should allow 1.5 Expansion Packs

But overall, the audio stuff i.e. both styles and controls of pitch and tempo are cool features
If Bert Smorenburg does the demos for arrangers.. then surely, this will sound like top of the line

Comment Removed by me

Our disappointments. No sa2 voices, no choir
Sounds, cluttered button layout, same screen,
Only 100 new sounds, still no live drum kits,
It seems to me that there was a a large increase
In sounds and screen quality from s900 to s910

Dunno, Donny... you ever played at home for relatives and friends? Feel like sitting around like a doofus for several minutes while you try to explain you stopped playing because you needed to load a different audio pack in?

Personally, I think Yamaha have goofed rushing out such an important change of direction (from MIDI drums to audio ones) in such a half-hearted and incomplete manner. This technology needed to be introduced on the TOTL, backed by an arranger FULL of theses audio styles, sufficient memory to load them all in, fast enough memory to load more in on the gig, and make their money on the rush to buy the T5.

THEN they could let it trickle down to the PSR's, along with enough of them to satisfy rather than tease, and a memory system proven to WORK.

For the want of a nail...

I agree with almost everything stated by everybody. Be that as it may, considering the improvements from my S900 to the S910, and now these new improvements with the S950, it's a no-brainer for me.
As soon as I can drop a few of my very hard to come by sheckles on this new yamaha, it's a done deal!

I think that, for me, it is sad that Yamaha have chosen this route. I can only imagine how good a Yamaha PSR could sound if the money spent on R&D'ing this feature were simply spent on creating (or even simply porting from the XF series) far better, punchier MIDI drum kits.

It is the path taken by most other manufacturers, to great success. Going the all audio route seems such a convoluted fix for a simple problem. And, as with any audio loop drum track, you lose many advantages that MIDI styles give you. You can't change the drumkit... a sticks style will never change into brushes, or a rock kit into a funk kit. Your style will never sound different with some simply editing.

And the drum patterns will never be editable... If you have a song where moving the backbeat around in one bar of the groove, or a slightly different kick pattern helps fit a song better, you are all out of luck.

I've been saying this since the Ketron days, but personally for me, I thinks audio loops are a technological dead end, with more disadvantages than advantages and improvements. Instead of this dead end, if arranger manufacturers simply made better, more detailed and punchy drum KITS, all of our current editing options still work. Current Korg and Roland arrangers have drum patterns that can sound quite close to real audio loops. And, if you listen to the demos of the better VSTi drum kits (BFD, EZDrummer, etc.) you can see a MIDI drumkit can be made to sound completely indistinguishable.

As ROM sizes gradually ramp up, more memory devoted to better drum kits will bring us virtually everything that features like Yamaha's audio styles give us, with NONE of the disadvantages.

That's a win/win, in my book.

The Audya live drums are between 28mb and 35mb each and currently it has 347 completely seperate audiodrum loops available. (more on the way)

So you might just squeeze 2 audya sized drum loops onto the PSR950. My feeling it will be more like the SD5 (which also uses audio drums) and the Wersi Wing but neither keyboard anything like the Audya's quality.

The 64mb expansion slot is good for one thing: Yamaha Expansion Packs sold at their website. At least for the PSR-S650 these expansion packs are exclusively for ethnic music. You get ethnic voices that don't come with the original keyboard + styles that take advantage of these voices.

And how much more is the Audya compared to the S950?

I wasn't comparing it to the Audya I was simply answering the question I quoted with the only information I had. If you want to compare the PSR to a Ketron it would need to be an SD5.

TBH, the Ketron audio feature doesn't even work that well with it's FAR better HD and RAM sizes and pipelines than the PSR.

I think, until a manufacturer leverages SSD's and faster RAM pipelines, the advantages of audio will always be outweighed by the disadvantages.

Arranger players always have been ADHD players! We want EVERYTHING, and we need it NOW! We never know what we want to play next, and half the time, we need to medley into it. Most modern MIDI drum based arrangers are capable of this. But audio loop RAM based ones struggle. Ketron cannot stream fast enough to offer full chord options on the pitched Parts, and apparently, the PSR can't load anything in at all without a reboot.

Do these guys even know who their customers are?!

Care to eloborate..? To be fair, the issues that you might have picked up is supposed to be solved in the AJAMSONIC upgrade. Have you played around with that a bit as yet? Over and above this, OS5.0 is due soon. It will bring with it another wealth of improvements.

Would you care to attach something over here to demonstrate?

And lastly, I doubt if anything exists as yet that's perfect, be it an arranger, any other item or mortal being. Ketron ventured full on four years ago where Yamaha still fears to tread, even to this day. Give them a little credit at least - they deserve it!

And very, very lastly (see, I'm also not perfect)... :-) ... we all know the more perfect you make music, the more "cold" and machine like it becomes. Warm music is not supposed to be "perfect" at all. Did you not notice the various style creators trying to capture this effect into their latest creations and the improvements it brings with the newer styles?

The Audya is as close as it comes at this stage to mimicking true human performance and is does a SUPERB job at doing just that.

You should really get your hands onto one for a weekend or so...

Henni

Henni, don't even go there, Dikki is just trolling with you

Ian and I had a very enjoyable, epic thread regarding Audya's handling of complex chords a couple of years ago and amazingly we even managed to get him to record some examples on Yamaha for a head to head. Ians examples were sadly removed but I kept them on my computer.

As an Audya owner you need no convincing as you have the proof at your finger tips and can see the results in your audience. Diki on the other hand will never be convinced otherwise.

Be far better not to turn a perfectly good Yamaha thread into another synthzone his v's mine shoot out.

As for Yamaha's live drums sequences, I have not heard them yet - but well done for giving it a go - using ROM is a baby step forward similar to Ketron did with the SD5 and allows them to dip their toes in without committing to a full on technology change. The company I want to see having a go is Korg. I have always liked their keyboards.

I agree totally,

I remember all the negative hype about the Audya four years ago, & I can vaguely remember much came from Diki also. I just want to rectify those loose shots as they are being fired.

But you're right, back to topic which is "Yamaha". If all refrain from unjustified loose comments aimed towards the Audya, I'll refrain from hijacking.

Keep well all,

Henni

Hi Diki,
I used the odd audio loop in my PA800. Basically tried to use them in a similar fashion to what my SD1 did. Had some great brush swish loops
( midi swishes just didn't sound quite as good) so I used the swishes on the percussion track, and I used midi drums for the rest of the drums required in the pattern. Ram was limited on PA800 also.
One good thing, loops can be sliced in the korg and made into a drumkit. Could get some intersting variations in the pattern by editing the midi note part of it.

Unless I missed it, don't Ketron's STILL only provide audio loops for Maj/Min/b7th?

I am sorry, but I remember the examples, and it was, at least to me, PAINFULLY obvious when you switched to a diminished chord, a suspended 4th or an augmented one. Sure, it's not QUITE as obvious with the simple extensions (although I could hear them) but those all MIDI chord types rarely matched the audio ones at all. Sorry, perhaps I am applying too high a standard to this, but a feature that goes backwards from where we are now (some of Korg's and Yamaha's MIDI guitar parts can sound pretty realistic, with no change in tone and sound when you move to chords more complex than maj/min/7th) is no improvement, IMHO.

My major problems with audio styles have not been addressed since the idea first came out. Incomplete chord types, and a lack of continuous NEW style production. Obviously, the cost and complexity of producing new audio styles makes them rare, and even rarer in the more local styles I would like to see. If you play music round the Mediterranean, you are decently provided. But much American music is still completely ignored (or with so few styles that variety is a problem on a gig). You can only play so many songs with the same style before it all gets bland.

And, on top of all that, you STILL after what, four years of production, do not have the computer tools to easily create your OWN audio styles for the Ketron (including pitched parts) from existing loop libraries, or easily edit the existing ones beyond the simplest things.

The Ketron, if you are content with what content it comes with, is an excellent arranger. But if your musical needs are not met by what it comes with, you are pretty much out of luck.

I am sorry that some think that pointing out drawbacks that actually exist is 'trolling'. Maybe if I was making this stuff up, you'd have a point. But unless some major revision of Ketron's OS, and a major revision to the ROM to include at least twice as many audio chords per style, and software tools to easily import and create your own all audio styles snuck by me, the reservations I had at launch still exist.

And, as I keep going on (and on!) about, much of what some tout as audio loops' advantages, the sonic authenticity of audio performances, is rapidly disappearing, as ROM sizes of included samples gets larger and larger. I honestly feel that MIDI drum loops, if played through a considerably better set of samples, if performed on MIDI drum kits by good drummers, and MIDI guitar performances, if played on SA2 quality MIDI guitar sample sets, and played by good guitarists, they rival audio loops with NONE of the drawbacks.

They are cheaper to produce, simpler to edit and transform, and make vastly less demands on the hardware than audio loops. Plus, you can take all your legacy styles, and run them into these new, larger sample sets, and lo and behold! All your OLD styles sound better now!

That's a win/win, in my book..!

All you need in a keyboard is to accept standard audio loops, all the editing can then be done using Melodyne and then loaded back into the keyboard. (All modern keyboards can have multiple Midi tracks per part, (Intro, fill, variation etc.) with the old 4 (Major, Min, 7th and min 7) track system being long gone, so manufactures can modify them to accept audio loops)

Obviously Hardware boards will require a jump in their storage capacity, but that’s not really a big problem to solve.

Bill

I'm afraid that the Audio Drum styles cannot be saved onto USB.

I was looking through a product guide about the 64mb Flash Expansion, and it said that you can "even play additional styles with audio drums" from the expansion slot or something to that effect.

In other words, the only styles with Audio Drums that you're going to get are going to come with Expansion Packs, and only one pack can be loaded on the keyboard at a time.

Perhaps this is a way for Yamaha to have a proprietary format with the new styles.

We will see.

Diki, your information is INCORRECT. This was settled on this forum back in July 2010 at length. The best you could come up with after 28 pages of discussion and conclusive proof that Audya handles complex chords was "to me the drums on the Audya sound 'shelly'.

For your benefit you can find the main thread here:
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/285014/7

and an example of a tune using complex chords here:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum22/HTML/001396.html
or just listen to the song: example

I see no point in going through the whole thing again. After 28 pages on one thread there was no doubt in anyones mind that the assumptions both yourself and Ian had stated to be "fact" were in fact completely wrong.

So yes, I did think dragging up this old myth again is trolling. I apologize if its simply that you had forgotten.

Your audio example is majors, minors and extensions. I don't hear a single sus4, aug or diminished in it.

Somebody wants to prove me wrong, play a style, mute everything but the guitars, and play some of the audio chords and some of the MIDI chords.

Look guys, think about it for a minute... if the MIDI chords were indistinguishable from the audio chords, why have the audio chords AT ALL..?

How about this progression?

C Csus, Cmaj7 Cdim
Dm7 G7sus4 G7 C Caug
Fmaj7 Dm7 Gsus4 G7 Gaug7
C Csus4 C...

That ought to answer it once and for all. That is a good mix of audio only chords, audio+MIDI notes, and all MIDI notes.

Look, I'm sorry, but telling me I can't hear stuff when I can? Please! And dragging out examples that don't address the issue as some kind of proof?

Look, it's a great arranger. It does some things that nothing else does. But it ain't PERFECT!

I already spent a couple of days of my life on this two years ago, I took a whole lot of personal abuse (which was edited out by those involved) and I produced a pretty exhaustive list and supplied examples as requested back then.

All of your questions are answered in those threads regarding why some unplayable inversions use midi elements. I am blowed if i am going to sit and do it all again. If you cant be bothered to read those threads why would you read them here?

This might be up your street Diki

when is michael vonken demo coming out

You don't need to do it again. It didn't convince me then, and it doesn't now.

As I said, face it... If the MIDI chords COULDN'T be distinguished, why have audio chords at all?

Careful you don't sail over the edge!

i don't think I said you cant tell the difference when cutting all arranger parts except guitar, it is just very cleverly done.

just realized. there I am advising Henni not to get drawn in by trolling and I am the one getting sucked in. The annoying thing is, I know I am going to give in and record your stupid chord sequence just for the huge satisfaction of proving you wrong in the claim that the Ketron audio loops don't work well. I remember how good it felt last time around and your probably the last person here that still holds on to this old myth.

Regarding the 'shelly sounding drums', do you want me to make a separate recording in case your using decent speakers now?

I'll make a new topic over in the Ketron forum when I have made the recording. I think we have done enough damage to this thread.

Hi Tonewheeldude,

I think we just found the ULTIMATE arranger, that's all. No wonder we defend it's reputation with such a zeal. See all you "unbelievers" over at the Ketron comparrison thread. We'll make Audya owners of you yet...

Anyway, back to topic which is Yamaha S950/S750.

Keep well all,

Henni

The s950 can make a cup of coffee. The s750 can only
Boil water

I'm glad its black. Its a refreshing change

Black Coffee and Black Water

Yes.. it had to be black after the black tyros, the black S650 and now this. It does look good !!

Well, that's about the only negative about the sound I have posted. Especially with acoustic guitar parts, where you are quite LIKELY to want to feature it solo or in a minimal setting, there is a real NEED for consistency. Plus (and I haven't brought this up yet, but have mentioned it in the past) adding extra notes to a six string major or minor strum turns the voicing into a seven or eight string guitar to get a maj7 or a 6/9, etc..

Particularly in light of how good Korg and Yamaha's style Parts are, Korg using a dedicated Guitar Mode to ensure voicing and inversion are accurate and Yamaha using the SA2 guitar voices and new NTT's to get pretty accurate guitar voicings, the more you expose your Guitar Part/s, the more the audio system shows off its weaknesses.

Sure, bury almost anything in a track, and things can be lived with, but solo it and things get more critical.

You are getting WAY too defensive. There is MUCH to like about the Ketron. I have always said, if the included content and the weaknesses of the audio guitars don't bother you, it is a GREAT arranger (support notwithstanding). But no amount of distracting us with other features fixes those that are weak.

For many of us used to being able to quickly and easily edit styles, to change drum kits and beat placement easily to stretch the usefulness of a style, for those of us that find it fun and musically interesting to change a rock guitar part into an acoustic (or vice versa), and for those of us that want or NEED a huge variety of different musical styles, particularly in areas that Ketron don't cover, the Audya has its drawbacks.

In some ways, the Audya's strengths are also its weaknesses. Yes, the audio drumming and audio guitars (if they fit chordally with what song you pick) are out of this world! But you are forced to endure MUCH less quality, once you need musical genre's the ROM doesn't cover, or want to use converted styles from other manufacturers with a much broader base of styles to use.

Me, I'm looking for consistency. I don't want some of my songs to sound amazing, and others merely OK simply because Ketron don't make an audio style in that groove.

I know I sound like a stuck record, but I simply believe that audio styles aren't the answer. MUCH better MIDI sample sets ARE.. Then ALL your styles get the lift from the newer technology, not just the few that come with the arranger.

Black is the new silver

Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black. Henry Ford (July 30, 1863 – April 7,

Red is the new black

Computers are more powerful than ever these days; capable of making millions of mistakes per second . But as fast and as smart as they are, they cannot even come close to matching the human brain (especially one like yours, Diki ). Arranger keyboards will NEVER, NEVER, EVER give you EXACTLY what you want musically, in every instance, under every conceivable musical circumstance. So if musical perfection is your criteria for an acceptable arranger, you're probably going to die a very frustrated person. I guess if we can decode DNA we could program a level of Artificial Intelligence that would overcome all the criticisms and perceived shortcomings of today's arrangers; but who wants to pay $50,000 for one? I say, take that money and spend it on music lessons and train that remarkable brain to do all the things you want your arranger to do. Why are we so hell bent to try to artificially re-create 'live play' when all we have to do is play live.

Despite proclamations to the contrary, I'll bet anything that a good pianist gets every bit as much satisfaction sitting down to his small Grand piano as does the arranger player, maybe even more, because somehow that Grand seems to know every chord voicing, substitution, transition, inversion, etc. that the player knows. In fact, it even knows some that haven't even been discovered yet.

There IS a perfect arranger for nearly every music genre'. For jazz, for instance, it's piano, upright bass, drums, guitar, trumpet, and sax........played by competent players. JMO.

Ok, back to my Organ, which incidently, also knows more chords than I do .

chas

i wonder if the s950 will last for 2 years or 3 years

Is vocal harmony 2 really much better than
Vocal harmony

Yes. For one thing, it no longer interrupts the lead vocal when you switch it on or off. That alone is invaluable.
DonM

The old silver was always ugly.

I'm used to the New Blue ..lol

I'm holding out for a nice paisley...

Perfect for those Prince covers!

It seems the s750 is now the "new" s910 as the number of sounds for cool,sweet,live is identical.