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#347467 - 07/21/12 11:36 PM IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930


How can Yamaha improve this KB, the T4 is more versatile than an egg.

And Peter B perhaps the best demonstrator there is.

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#347470 - 07/22/12 01:02 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tony Hughes]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4950
Loc: English Riviera, UK
The same was said about the T2 and the T3, but improvements continued and the T4 was introduced, so there will definitely be a new TOTL Arranger from Yamaha, however we will have to wait and see whether they still call it a Tyros.

Remember: everybody has different needs, and while the T4 is good for some, it is not for others, hence there is no one best manufacture of Arranger keyboards.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#347482 - 07/22/12 03:32 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tony Hughes]
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Tony, I don't know if your aware just how massive this question is? Its not about Tyros 5, it affects the entire keyboard industry. Yamaha in particular (and the other companies who follow their lead) have messed up in a monumental manner and they do not know how to fix the problem

From what I understand Yamaha simply don't know where to go next. However they need the Tyros Keyboard as their entire product line is based on the R&D that goes into it, from the Motif right down to the little PSR's.

So, yes, there needs to be a new version. But its difficult for them as the Tyros ( the people, not the keyboard) who pay for the R&D are taking the big sleep en masse and so Yamaha have to find a new customer base. If they fail Yamaha's entire keyboard division is pretty much doomed within three or four years.

The ramifications of failure don't just include Yamaha. In four years time, the only people making keyboards will be the Chinese unknown brands at 39.99 (from Argos or ebay) and the specialist "cottage industry" manufacturers who produce only professional products for musicians.

The industry is on the edge of a ravine, and the next step or leap will either secure its safety or they will find themselves falling into oblivion. Personally I don't think Yamaha will make the right choice because its just too big for them to jump (must involve a complete education program).

Technics took the easy option and just threw in the towel. They knew exactly what was coming and got out while they were ahead. Roland are getting the message and have been making a slow withdrawal. Korg are hedging their bets and Ketron are not affected; although a few instruments sell to home users, their bread and butter is the professional users.



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#347484 - 07/22/12 04:06 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tony Hughes]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
TWD,

The end of the arranger as we know it is nigh, I don't think you have pleased anyone today, try again tomorrow, looks like back to Ketron or Korg for me, I will wait to the Euro is flat on it's ass... Korg Pa3x 39.50... rotf2

Tony

TWD says

"I can only please one person per day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good, either."

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#347485 - 07/22/12 04:21 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tony Hughes]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10597
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes


How can Yamaha improve this KB, the T4 is more versatile than an egg.


Yes, there will be another TOTL arranger...no one can really say if it will be another Tyros, as in Tyros5.

When the first Tyros was introduced, people asked the very same thing..."How can Yamaha improve this keyboard?"

Well, improve it they did, as seen on subsequent Tyros models, and each new iteration sold exceptionally well, culminating in the Tyros4 which has allegedly sold in numbers that are higher than the first three combined.

I expect the next Yamaha TOTL will follow in much the same way, adding improvements both big and small, and staying within the parameters that have made their other arrangers so successful...easy to use operating system, lots of support ( both factory and eventually, third party) and a stunning sound that seems to please a great many people.

So, in spite of the predictable negative personal views from the usual naysayers, it is my own opinion, that Yamaha will continue to be one the leaders in arranger production and continue to satisfy the needs of those wanting one of the best instruments available.

Ian

PS...I feel as well, that the smaller companies with the inevitable smaller budgets, may eventually withdraw from TOTL arranger production...even Roland has bowed out of that category, and I wouldn't consider them a "small" company, but it takes big resources, and an extensive (and expensive) R & D department to compete at the higher levels.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#347487 - 07/22/12 04:41 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: ianmcnll]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4950
Loc: English Riviera, UK
For the last 25 years doom mongers on forums have been saying the organ market is about to expire, however while reduced it is still ticking along.

The same will eventually (If not in the near future) occur in the Arranger market, (Time moves on as new customers and new types of product appear) but like the organ market (Which according to the doom mongers should have been dead 25 years ago) they will continue to be around for quite some time.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#347488 - 07/22/12 04:45 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tony Hughes]
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
'The usual naysayers' lol. At least you didn't need specialist spellcheck equipment for that insult wink

Anyway, its Sunday - traditionally there is nothing like a bit of "the end is nigh" to perk up the congregation is there?

I honestly do believe what i write above though - its not a stab at any particular manufacturer of home products as they all share responsibility for the colossal and shortsighted errors over the past years. There needs to be some serious rethinking if the keyboard industry is to survive. You must see it? Anyone with a few spare neurons should be able to work it out without too much prompting....particularly those whose employment is involved!

Ok, Yamaha can and will come up with some new software to make a T5 more exciting, but the fact remains (and it is a fact not an opinion), their customers are dropping by the wayside at an alarming rate and nobody is or has plans(except for one new company not yet known about) to introduce younger people to arrangers or organs in the west.

Bill..the organ industry is not ticking along, its just about gone (as has the maker of your username). Except for one or two specialist companies all the big manufacturers have pulled out and I know that those left are concerned for their businesses.

The 'Organ Shops' are no more in the Uk, we have maybe three or four shops nationally that still sell organs....and thats it. One of the last honest dealers (Dave Templing of Haven Keyboards) closed up for the last time a week or so ago.







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#347490 - 07/22/12 05:26 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tonewheeldude]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10597
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tonewheeldude
'The usual naysayers' lol. At least you didn't need specialist spellcheck equipment for that insult wink

Anyway, its Sunday - traditionally there is nothing like a bit of "the end is nigh" to perk up the congregation is there?

You must see it? Anyone with a few spare neurons should be able to work it out without too much prompting....particularly those whose employment is involved!

Ok, Yamaha can and will come up with some new software to make a T5 more exciting, but the fact remains (and it is a fact not an opinion), their customers are dropping by the wayside at an alarming rate and nobody is or has plans(except for one new company not yet known about) to introduce younger people to arrangers or organs in the west.




There is no denying certain repetitive behavior patterns that happen here on good ole SZ. wink

I suppose anything is possible, within a certain time constraint, but, so far, the market seems very healthy for both Yamaha and Korg. In my neck of the woods, we do quite well with arrangers, but we also heavily promote and support them as well, which keeps users happy and me with a paycheck.

As far as "customers dropping by the wayside at an alarming rate", I have to disagree with you there...that has not been my experience, nor the experience of the other clinicians and also the dealers with who I am acquainted. My youngest first time buyers are usually in their late 30's and 40's (and range into the 70's), and it has been this way since I started working with arrangers, so, as long as there are 30 and 40 year olds, and we can keep their interest with new features, I suppose we will have repeat customers.

Lately, there has been an increase in younger buyers/users, seen in such SZ members as as Telmo and Joost, to name just two, and a quick look on YouTube shows quite a number of Tyros/PSR and Korg arrangers being played, and not all performers are seniors or old timers...many are quite young.

How long in the far future will it continue?

I would say no one can really give a definitive answer.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#347492 - 07/22/12 05:36 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tony Hughes]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6040
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Bill, organs, particularly 'home' organs, often show up in discussions about 'arranger' keyboards. Some see them as the predecessors of the modern arranger, others see them as 'dinosaurs' played by our fathers and grandfathers, or ornate, expensive peices of furniture. But in truth, the organ, in any of it's many forms, has a MUCH richer history than any arranger keyboard. There are the monstrous pipe organs found only in the largest cathederals, giant theatre organs found in the largest theatres of the last century, reed organs, unique electro-mechanical instruments (Hammonds) classified as organs (but quite different from all the others, in concept and purpose), and of course the modern 'home' organ which shares many features with arranger keyboards (multi-voices and auto-accompaniment). But I think the REAL reason the home organ market continues to survive (even if feebly) is that psychologically, people still regard it as a REAL instrument, to be cherished and possibly even passed on to 'the kids'. I doubt if the average 'home organ' purchaser sits around 3 months after purchase wondering about or lusting after the next new model that hasn't even been announced yet.

I don't think the market for home organs will ever get back to where it was pre-80's, but I think that as long as the magnificent sounds of organs such as the one in the National Shrine where I went to undergraduate school (Catholic U), contrinue to ring in our subconscious, there will always be a small but continuing market for the home organ. The arranger, I'm not so sure.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#347495 - 07/22/12 06:33 AM Re: IS THERE A NEW T5 ON THE WAY [Re: Tony Hughes]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
I started the thread because it beggars belief that the T4 could be improved, at lot said there wasn't that much difference between the T3 and T4, maybe the T5 will not be in the same mould at all and that might be a good things. The Organ market is well and truly dead Bill and for that matter the ones being produced are way out of most people's pockets. Anyway what do you think of Peter, he's got to be one of the best on the circuit. No falling out about this thread any of you, I think this is a good one for sensible discussion, I still like the Korg Pa3x it's build quality looks first class for such a small footprint. I went into our local KB shop last week and the owner is sure there will be a new Yami KB this year ??? party lets party when it does, can't see anyone else with anything this year..

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