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#309363 - 07/24/06 09:48 PM Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 2959
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Hello

I am now trying to get OMB going with Hypercanvas. It was reasonably simple with Live Styler as it is a VST host. Norbert has been helpful. I finally got it to work BTW after I discovered some of the channels of my Mia soundcard were muted

Also, Jos Maas has always been friendly and helpful also. Two good guys in the business helping an midi illiterate getting started. I have tried this a few times in the past and gave up. This time I will get these suckers to work!

So far I have tried OMB using the onboard computer sounds. Pretty dismal to say the least.

I have Cakewalk Home Studio 9, I have the input ports set to MidiYokeNT:1, output ports are set to MidiYokeNT:2, OMB midi in is MidiYokeNT:1

I am using a studio quality Mia 24/96 sound card by Echo Audio. I am currently just using the computer keyboard and later will use my Tyros 2 as controller.

What do I have to do to get Hypercanvas to work through OMB? I just keep getting those cruddy onboard sounds.

Do I need to specify someplace that I'm using Hypercanvas, and if so where?

Am I better off asking questions like this here or email Jos or try his forum or what?

Thanx
Scott
http://ScottLMusic.com

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 07-24-2006).]

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#309364 - 07/24/06 10:18 PM Re: Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 2959
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
I read the instructins again at http://www.1manband.nl/tutorials1/vst.htm

If I am reading this correctly OMB will only be able to play one voice in the accompaniment, not all of them automatically as in Live Styler. Am I understanding this correctly? If that is so, is there a way I can use HQ and have all the voices take either automatically or manually?

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#309365 - 07/25/06 01:45 AM Re: Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
Jos Maas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 164
Loc: Hantum, The Netherlands
Scott,

"If I am reading this correctly OMB will only be able to play one voice in the accompaniment"

Your not reading this correctly. OMB can of course play all voices.

"I have Cakewalk Home Studio 9, I have the input ports set to MidiYokeNT:1, output ports are set to MidiYokeNT:2, OMB midi in is MidiYokeNT:1"

OMB MIDI In should be the MIDI port that you MIDI keyboard controller is connected to, not MidiYokeNT:1.

OMB MIDI Out (all channels) should be MidiYokeNT:1.

Cakewalk MIDI In should be MidiYokeNT:1.

CakeWalk should be configured so that it will send any MIDI message it receives to the Hypercanvas VST plugin (not to MidiYokeNT:2). I cant help you with that I don't use CakeWalk.

Btw did you try HyperCanvas with SaviHost? It may be easier to setup.

Jos

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#309366 - 07/31/06 11:46 PM Re: Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 2959
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
OK< I'm going though and trying to decipher what Jos means by "Btw did you try HyperCanvas with SaviHost? It may be easier to setup"

Does this mean in place of Cakewalk ? Does it serve the same function.

You know there needs to be a simple step by step procedure for LS and OMB that any novice could easily do. I believe that with my background in the home organ field, and also my wife who knows computers, built the one we have and also did the home organ retail gig........anyway, if we can't pick this up relatively easily then Jos and Norbert are losing a LOT of sales. I refuse to buy these things until I can do something that makes me say, YEAH.

I am thankful that Jos answered my question, even though I don't get it. You know on his tutorial he says you'll need something like Cakewalk, now he says he doesn't know anything about the program. I should have tried that line when selling organs.haha

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#309367 - 08/01/06 01:29 AM Re: Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 2959
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
I have thought this over. I believe if I am having this much difficulty with my background not to mention my wifes background teaching, selling and playing concerts on home organs,then I believe I need to suggest to those that are producing soft arrangers should have an easy quick start where a person with less knowledge than my wife and I could follow each step of a step by step process.
If there is a step by step approach with either OMB or LS I missed it. If someone can point that out, fine. Otherwise I feel I need to advise those that are making these programs to have a quick start for our benefit as well as theirs, because I can gaurantee they are now selling about 1/10 of what they could be as it stands.

I feel the problem is the techs don't know how to talk to a lay person.


[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 08-01-2006).]

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#309368 - 08/01/06 05:33 AM Re: Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4533
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hello Scott
The computer software arranger will never be as easy to operate as a hardware arranger keyboard or organ. (Exceptions are the Wersi OAS instruments and the Lionstracs Mediastation, (Although the Mediastation does take a bit more knowledge as you have to set up jacks for input and output of the VST, were as the Wersi OAS system does it for you automatically) which have the computer and keyboard contained in one unit)
The best way to think of the set up is like this: your controller keyboard is the same as the keyboard on your arranger keyboard, the arranger software (OMB etc) is the same as the controls on an arranger keyboard, and the software VSTs are the sound engine of the arranger keyboard or Midi expander module.
Here is a good way to get started.
1. When first starting with software, I would suggest setting your controller keyboard to output on channel 1, and OMB etc to receive on channel 1, leave the rest of the settings on default (Internal computer sounds) and then play around with the software as you would any hardware arranger keyboard. (This will allow you to get you used to its operation and quirks)
2a. Set up your VST instrument to run on its own, (Do not run OMB etc) and set it up to receive on channel 1, then get used to the feel and operation of the VST by playing it directly with your controller keyboard.
2b. Split your controller keyboard, leaving the right hand side to send on channel 1 and the left hand side to send on channel 2, and then get used to switching between channel 1 and channel 2 in the VST, including changing the sounds for each channel. (This will allow you to get used to the operation and quirks of the VST)
3. When you have gained experience using the programs separately, you can then run OMB etc, and the VST together, and set them up to communicate using the internal Midi channels. (Because you are now used to assigning channels separately in the programs you will find that you will be able to set them both up fairly easily)
Hope this helps.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#309369 - 08/01/06 08:03 AM Re: Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
The reason, IMO, there is no quick start, for software arrangers, is because there are many possible hardware/software scenarios.
Your computer might have a Soundblaster or Audigy soundcard, in which case you could load soundfonts onto the card itself. If your soundcard can't load soundfonts, then you would need software to host the soundfonts.
If you use Hypersonic, then you don't need a host, but you would if you purchased a vst.
NI B4 could be used standalone or with a vst host. The list of possibilites are numerous.
Starkeeper
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#309370 - 08/01/06 07:56 PM Re: Need help setting up OMB with Hypercanvas
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 2959
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Thanx for all the input. It is all very helpful. Yes, I can see the many possibilities of a lot of different variables. I can see this can take some time.

I still can see the advantage though if OMB and LS had the freeware that was available along with say a set of decent sounding soundfonts that could work regardless of what kind of soundcard you have or other variable like RAM memory, with step by step setup if any with no real variables for a complete novice. If nothing else just a quick test drive even for those who may have some knowledge.

If tweaking can't be sent in a zip file, then possibly a chart of how to set up reverb, pan and other effects.

I see a real advantage for OMB and LS to have this freeware as downloads right from their own sites as I noticed when I went to the different sites for the host, soundfonts, etc, etc that there is a lot of new language and some sites could be made easier to navigate and instructions can be confusing, like, what do I really need to be looking at here and what can I ignore for now.

I think this could help a user see if there is any interest rather early on and Jos and Norbert would be selling a lot more of their programs.

Just a couple ideas as I see it as a rank beginner and someone who has been in business for 30+ years

Scott

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