I'm making my first Christmas return of the year tomorrow, when I take this s910 back to the dealer. I hate to see my boy loose the commission, but I just can't use this with the design flaw that shuts off the vocals when you step on the f/s.

On the bright side - I've been experimenting with new software that John sent me and my PA800 feels like a new board - it's like I got my wish after all! So, another cup of eggnog and it's back to the studio - tweak the halls with bells and whistles - fa la la la la .... and you know the rest!

What a great Christmas this has been.

Hi Uncle Dave,

Yes John did a great job. I have a PA500 Musikant and at the moment it's just like having 3 different sounding keyboards. I can load the original sounds and styles of the PA500, the Musikant sounds and styles and the performances John created.

Hi U.D.

I've only had an in-store experience with the 910 and really liked it. Naturally, it did not have a footswitch attached but I'm remembering the time I bought a footswitch for my PSR-2000, there is a set-up routine deep in the manual and it was a little quirky to set up initially. Probably my fault... but what I'm suggesting is that you talk to the factory guy who sometimes hangs out here and determine if it really is a design flaw. Scott Yee will remember his name and how to contact him.

Good luck, regardless.

Dave Rice

The Yamaha "guy" you are referring to is Steve Demming...who has been very helpful to a lot of Yammie owners.

However, the problem UD is referring to is inherent in all the PSRs and maybe the Tyros series.

It wasn't a deal killer for me...but it is annoying.

Eddie

Is this problem evident in the new Tyros 4 VH2 also? ....or has it been corrected in the latest upgrade just released?

I have heard that the T4 doesn't have this problem.

I live with it, and I'm careful not to turn on/off the harmonizer in mid-note.

I'm glad the Korg PA800 is working for UD.

The Tyros4's VH doesn't have the issue.

http://music-tyros.com/tyros4/features/vocalharmony/index.html

I'm like Beaky...it's not hard to work around it, and, it's worth it, in opinion, as the instrument (the S910, in my case) has so many other awesome features, styles and voices...plus, again in the S910's case, it is inexpensive enough to allow the purchase of two instruments, giving the advantage of a back-up instrument, very important if you have a busy schedule.

It is good to see David has been fortunate to discover his old PA-800 was what he really needed all along, and that John Smies' software has given it a boost.

Ian

I've been a Tyros 1,2 & now 4 keyboard owner thats never had any problem easily triggering the VH on/off via footpedal, so exactly how does the S910 foot switch feature work differently than on Tyros 4?

Scott, the lower level PSRs have a slight glitch when the footpedal is depressed, shutting off the vocal signal for a split second before the harmony is applied. I've tried 3 or 4 different types of pedals and the result is the same.

My trademark sound has always been a "Four Freshman", "Eagles" type vocal group and it's important for me to turn harmonies on and off mid word, mid phrase, or any old time I think it's appropriate ... the 910 makes this impossible for me, and therefore limits my creativity during a vocal performance ... which is EVERY performance, just about. I play very few instrumentals.

I never got the 910 to recognize the MP3 files I had on my USB stick either, but by then I already knew it was going back. I'm sure for $4000, the T4 put a little more thought into the hardware issues. The 910 is a great entry level instrument, and an "OK" mic input, but the harmonizer is so far behind the pack. That's only my opinion, of course, and I have a very strict design for my vocals - it's 90% of my show.

Just as much as the PA800 is IMO one has great SOUND but with more NON singing players what would you choose?....one has GREAT VH.....so if Tyros & PA2x are TOTL........where are the MOTL units?


I have personally as a singer weened myself off the VH in live use, to me it became too fake & hokey for the audience in a live situation, external units also became quirky and just more wires and setup time involved, .....but I will use it when recording in the studio for background tracks Digi-tech units preferred. I also think lead VH is being way over used in country music...every song is starting to sound the same vocally, what happened to 3 & 4 part "LIVE"....& I love country music.




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-26-2010).]

The one thing UD and I have in common is we both rely heavily on our vocal ability. In my case it's because I'm a mediocre player at best, therefore, my vocals are essentially my right hand. Dave has an incredible right hand.

The slight delay caused by triggering the vocal harmony on the PSR series, and T1, T2 and T3 has always been a pain in the a$$ for those of us that use the harmony feature. While I was able to work around it for many, many years, it was still a real pain. The addition of a stand-alone vocal processor solved the problem, plus provided much better vocal effects.

Overall, I believe the S-910 is one Hell of a keyboard for live performers. And, when properly tuned, which does not take a lot of effort or expertise, the machine really rocks. Yamaha apparently fixed this, and other, problem(s) with the T4, and if that technology is transferred to the ensuing S-series models, they should be awesome. Who knows, I may just trade in my aging PSR-3000s. Gotta' finish the boat work first.

Cheers,

Gary

I too would find the sort of annoying vocalizer glitch (delay) Uncle Dave describes unacceptable, as on both Tyros 2 and Tyros 4, I've got no problem cleanly activating/deactivating the VH on/off right at the moment I activate the foot pedal.

I don't know if this makes a difference or not on the S910, but on Tyros 4, when the Vocal Harmony 'pedal polarity' is set to "-", VH is activated/deactivated when the pedal is initially pressed, and when set to "+", VH is activated/deactivated only when the pedal is released. I got mine set to "-".

Ok, back to that S910 glitch. I honestly would have expected the S900 series to be able to work the same way it does on the Tyros, and if not, I would think it a bug that Yamaha could correct in an OS update, as it sounds like a software issue. That said, how many S910 owners have actually contacted Yamaha to report this, and if so what's been their response?

The VH glitch is one problem on everything Yamaha previous to the Tyros 4 although I've yet to demo it my self or even see or hear any QUALITY demos dedicated just to the VH2....how can one person experience the bug & one person not?...that said the toyish KAZZOOISH garbling quality of all VH features on any PSR/S series arrangers is the big problem.....hopefully the VH2 on the T4 is a step in the right direction but even that is yet to be heard. WHY, WHY,WHY,.....can't Yamaha make a demo just on the VH2 feature and explain how it's been improved.....show how good it works vs the old VH for the last 10 years+ ? Why does VH take a back seat....they have made some great sound & sound demos so far I'm hoping we'll see a great VH2 on also...for singers this can be a deal breaker and a loss in sales also.

Happy New Year

My apologies to current 910 users - I said it was an entry level, but I really didn't mean that. It's every bit a mid level contender, and if you can stand the key feel and don't use the internal VP a whole lot, it's actually quite a beast.

I admit to being a "vocal snob" when it comes to my shows ... I use the harmony a lot, and I honestly think it's not overused the way I approach it. You can't just turn it on and off and get the effect that I desire ... it has to be finessed, tweaked, and modified in real time all night long. I am constantly reaching for the dedicated level control on the PA800 - another reason the 910 did not make it in my lineup.

Seriously - this is an amazing instument with terrific sounds, but i need the thing to be my vocal monitor too, and the speakers and quality of the VP just can't compete with what I have. If I used an outboard PA more often and didn't need the "in my face" monitor - I might have plugged my guitar into the vocal input and used a standalone VP, but I need to travel light and be ready to do a show with one kb, one mic and one speaker ... no matter where it's placed. ( I need to hear my mix no matter where the PA winds up, or how loud it needs to be.)

Am I high maintenance? Yup ... but I charge for it and I love the result. I'm still trying to work my E3 into the rig .... I just love the feel and the sound with 2 hands on it. Hmmmmmmm

No offense taken Dave......sorry it didn't work out for you...........but as a previous PSR21k,3k, player etc,.. .... didn't you know this was going to happen before hand? I know you too well & I don't think in anyway your going to carry & hook up two Kb's anywhere anytime soon for gigging, remember the
Mad Anthony Hammond days ...or maybe the new KORG unit due out at NAMM will tickle your fancy & you'll sell the PA800/Nord and use that .....anyway be happy which ever direction you go, I know it will always sound good no matter what you use.....breakfast soon & Happy New Year!

Odd. I certainly haven't experienced this with either Tyros 2 or Tyros 4. Anybody else?

Dave can explain this better he uses the VH a bit different then most. That said ...Scot could you record a short VH/Vh2 demo song so we can hear the difference being you have a T2/T4? if you get time.

Scott,

If I recall, the T2 experienced the problem prior to the OS updates. The T4 never had the problem. When I talked to Yamaha many years ago about this problem they said it had something to do with the processor not being able to handle all the tasks at hand with the amount of available RAM memory. I believe the T2 OS updates addressed this by consolidating some of the OS tasks, thereby freeing up RAM for the vocal processor on/off function to perform a bit faster. The problem is most noticeable when you are in the middle of a word when you punch the harmony button. If the song is somewhat slow, such as Have You Heard by the Duprees, you can usually time the foot pedal depressions and avoid the problem--but not always. The delay is about 1/4 of a second, which is very noticeable.

Gary

Gary

After a while I just stopped using a pedal altogether and let my fingers do the walking..

Hi U.D. and those who have responded:

Thanks so much for advising us of this problem. I can certainly see where this would cause significant grief during a performance. I understand your frustration and hope Yamaha becomes aware and resolves the problem.

Regards,

Dave Rice

I wouldn't think there would be any difference using the button or the peadal??
The OS should respond the same.
Unless they used a low priority task for the pedal input function.
Are you saying there is?

Lee S.

Lee, there is no difference in using a pedal or pressing the button--the delay is the same.

Dave, The problem seems to have been resolved with OS updates for the T2, T3 and more recently, the T4. Still exists, however, with the S-900. Maybe the upcoming PSR-S series will no longer have the delay as well.

Cheers,

Gary

I'm really curious how many S910 owners here have actually reported this problem to Yamaha.

Unless S910 registered owners contact Yamaha directly, a fix may less likely be forth coming. Merely posting about this problem on internet forums is less likely to yield a fix because manufacterers have no accurate way to determine which complaints are from legitmate registered owners or merely from people with an axe to grind. Good luck.

Hi Scott,

I have sent Yamaha Canada Head Office a detailed report about the glitch in the VH on the S900/S910.

Ian

Maybe there solution is the new VH2.. ?

Ian,
How long ago was that?

If Yamaha can fix this they sure should...so, either they just don't think it's a big enogh issue for a 'home' keyboard or they can't fix it because of HW or OS limitations. Most likely HW.
If enoghh folks returned keyboards because of this issue...that may change the response from them (But only if the reason for returns actually gets back to the high level management).
Lee S.

Lee,

I have a good rapport with Head Office...I've only recently reported the glitch, and I have sent in another report today.

It may be a hardware limitation...I hope it isn't, and an OS upgrade can fix it.

Ian

Be nice if they Yamaha could ship out the vH2 card to replace the old in the S910...

I'm guessing that it's a hardware limitation, (or very expensive), and that's why it's only installed on the Tyros.
I thought the 910 would be worlds above the 3000, but in actuality, for my purposes - they are almost the same. I should have done my homework first! lol.
I'm taking my Korg out tomorrow for the first time since the repair .... fingers crossed!

If the VH is the same for the Tyros/Tyros2/Tyros3 and the PSR-S910/S900, and I'm pretty sure it is, then it might be quite possible to upgrade(fix) the latter.

But, as you say, it may be expensive, but, I'm also hoping that since they've (Yamaha) have been using the same darn harmonizer for quite some time, that maybe a fix will be forthcoming.

I'd still be using a PSR-3000 if it wasn't for the fact that I play all instrumental music, and the new SA, Cool! Sweet! and Live! on the S910 are incredibly expressive; especially the SA Sax and SA Concert Guitar, two voices I really love to use...plus, the two new SA Hammond samples, SA Jazz Rotary, and SA Rock Rotary, are excellent.

I know one thing...after hearing the Tyros4, I am leaning more and more towards getting one, but, I want to spend some quality time on one first. The whole instrument appears to be a big step up from the Tyros3, much like the S910 is from the S900...in appearance all these instruments, respectively, look identical, but "under the hood (or bonnet)" they are different, in both voice expressiveness, and overall sonic goodness as well.

Good luck with your PA-800...the Nord is quite nice, David...I played one, and it's got some terrific sounds.

Ian

I hear ya, Ian ... this is a rare semi-down time for me with school out for the winter break. After 1/3 I'll be immersed in play practice and graduation music ... I'll hardly even have time to THINK about keyboards! lol

I have complained about this for the past six or seven YEARS. They aren't going to do anything about it. You can buy a Tyro 4 or wait and see if the next 900 series has the new harmonizer.
I did have a Tyros 2 a few years ago and it certainly had the problem. If you engage or disengage the vocal harmonizer while singing a note, the original (lead) voice is interrupted for a split second.
DonM

Exactly Don I found the same problem with my Tyros2 and so many other Psr's.....
still waiting to see a Yamaha VH2 demo IN DETAIL...anyone???



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-27-2010).]

As I mentioned somewhere, I did get to play Don Patterson's Tyros 4, and the vocal harmonizer works seamlessly. There's a lot to like about the T4.
DonM

having second thoughts now? ... Ive still yet to even see on in a store around here yet? did I mention I only live between two large cities New York & Philly ever hear of them anyone? ...and these store have crap in them regarding arranger KB's.......but you'll see every workstation imaginable in there !! so I guess the watch you tube demos & Buy & Return policy is in effect..

I think Don bought his from Frank. He can have you one overnight!
DonM

Frank is the best to deal with as I have many times before...BUT, I am not convinced the T4 is a better fit then what I have now the S910 for my needs....I'm waiting for winter NAMM..I'm also very interested in the Media station Groove 76/61 also with it's new OS.

We'll see!

IMHO, the reason they are not going to fix it is they consider the PSR/Tyros a Home arranger and they more than likely would just say...it's a home keyboard and that feature/fix is not neccessary...exactly the same they told me when I reported some MIDI issues and other things I needed to control an external tone module on my T2.

Lee S.

again most times Buyer error.....in not investigating all features BEFORE you buy a unit to see if it has exactly what you need before purchase. There is so many choices...homework must be done in detail first!