seems like having 2 E60's is not critical for me anymore, because I'm doing more gigs with no arranger features needed, so i thought maybe i'd dump one and get me a stage piano, but would like to ask your advice. Here's my druthers:
under 25 pounds- 73,76 or 88 keys
unweighted or semiweighted keys
(or weighted but very light shallow action)
dedicated split/transpose/balance controls
saveable setups, can layer strings
great lh bass options, great piano sound, rhodes/b3/vibes/guitar. no others required.

bonus features not required but would be nice:
recording, hip swing/bossa/latin drum patterns, play smf's..

watcha recommending under $1000?
and is anyone interested in one of my E60's
for $900? (paid Fran $1000 for it a few mos ago)


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Miami Mo

Mo,
the casio privia PX330, reviewed in Keyboard Magazine October issue 2009 fills all of your requirements but it is a weighted hammer action. The only sound that would not be killer would be the acoustic guitar. It's just OK.
But, it is 24lbs, 88 keys, splits, layers, 128 note polyphony, great 4 sample per key grand piano, B3's, Rhodes, records 16 tracks, plays back standard midi files via SD cards (500 songs per card max) and sells for under $700.00!
There are several 76 and 88 note non weighted or semi weighted models available from Yamaha and Casio that are in the $300 to $400 range that will do what you want but these are bulky and usually don't have pro features. The Privia PX330 also has stereo inputs and stereo outputs, midi, USB, pitch bend range and it has over 180 arranger styles or may be used as just a drum machine and it has 98 Registration memories which can be dumped to your computer or the SD card for even more.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

George, as ever, you are terrific, but I've
tried those Privias and absolutely hate the action, just feels thick and mushy to me. A friend has a Yamaha weighted action
dgx 76 that i play at his house parties, and after 20 minutes on that my joints are screaming "uncle". I've tried the unweighted version of dgx/ypp, was decent, but having to go into screens to transpose, change sounds, and all the other functions was a nuisance.
Maybe I should look for something used that was originally a more expensive primo unit? but what would that be?

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Miami Mo

hoo 124, that is one sexy babe of a keyboard, sho nuff! wish they had it in unweighted key
version on the 73, cuz that action will probably be too piano-like for these old hands, and the 36.5 lbs is more than i want
to be carting. but thanks anyway--made my day just looking at it!

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Miami Mo

Miami Mo: Have you actually tried the exact model PX330 that George mentioned ?

The one George recommends, model PX330 is the LATEST one from Casio and it is supposed to be light years away compared to the previous Privia models.

It was supposed to be a totally different feeling from the previous Privias. I recommend that you try the model that Goerge recommends.

thanks lukitoh, I'm heading to a party later today and there's a GC near it and I'll see if they have the PX330 to demo, but i'm afraid the fact that so many pianists like these units means it will have the kind of action that's more suited to a pianist than to a sax player/self-taught kbd player like me who tends to tendinitis in his hands and is used to a synth action (korg i series for 8 yrs) or a semi-weighted (Roland E60 last 2 yrs). Remember I did specify one of those actions and said weighted only if very light and shallow-only so as not to eliminate some odd ones i just might be able to handle-like an older Suzuki model I tried in a used piano
store closeout yesterday, which had a very light shallow weighted action..but it was a dinosaur in too many ways. Anyhoo, I will give it a shot..but I'm thinking what about
units that are 3-8 years old and were totl
that might be available now for under $1000?

i'm thinking about the Roland Juno Stage 76,
which is 22+ lbs compared to 28+ for E60, and will have so many similarities to the E60 i play now, and they can be had on ebay for $999 "open box" w/free shipping on 2 sites (Sam Ash has them in stock for $1299+tax). It can function as a semi-arranger too (although what a dumb move for Roland not to have ANY Latin rhythms in it! why on earth would they not just include a handful in, even tho they are targeting this model to a younger profile?)

Check out the Kurzweil offerings.
http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/Product.php?id=205

Pros: the Kurzweil sp2 is $1299 list, probably can be had for $1000, has semi-weighted 76,
Cons: has no speakers and weighs same as E60: 28.6 I'd still like to try one but nobody here has one to demo..

I tried the px-330 today at GC..can't play that action at all. The PX-535R interested me more, had lighter action, was more like an arranger, only $599..but weighs over 36 lbs.

I personally love the Kurzweil sounds, its vastly superiour to anything but VST's and Oasys..

And you will need external speakers and monitors for use on stage anyway... build in speakers just don't cut it as monitors.

And at home you can route the audio out through your other E60.

Korg SV1

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www.AudioworksCT.com

thanks Frankie, but "124" already posted the sv1 link earlier in this thread, and there's 3 drawbacks: price, weight, and fully weighted action. does look like fantastic unit tho.

Bachus, no speakers isn't a deal-breaker, I just find them more convenient to use at home, and they do provide some monitoring--I never use stage monitors. I place one EV 12" speaker beside and just to rear of me on the floor, with the powered mixer on top for
easy access//then I place the other speaker on a stand. I could get by with no speakers
in the unit this way..just a little bit nicer
to have them for extra monitors. I would love to demo the SP2 (the only Kurzweil that has the right action, weight, and price for me)if i can find one.

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Miami Mo

Check out an old Roland EP 760. 76 keys, light action, 20 basic sounds, split & layer capability. Good LH bass sounds. No saved setups. Its so simple you can make quick changes with the buttons on the front. Very light and decent built in speakers.
Paid $600 for mine new quit a while back so you definaly find a good deal o a used one.
Bill in NJ

thanks Bill, sounds good..but nothing on ebay at the moment.

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Miami Mo

Older model Kurzweils, out of production, but if you find one, they are pretty much exactly what you are looking for and the price should be right.

Kurzweil SP-76 or SP-88
http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/Product.php?product=52

Great stage piano.

Light action, even though weighted.

Makes a great Controller also.

There is even a very cheap decent digital piano by Yamaha (model NP30) that seems to be liked by many pros. It's lightweight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvuchCUkBg&feature=related

I don't see the point in dumping the E60 for a no touch 'stage piano' of about the same weight... You already GOT a light touch stage piano, with piano tones FAR better than the NP30, for starters, and arguably better, or at least equal, piano sounds than many dedicated stage pianos mentioned.

Your E60!

Just because it has arranger features doesn't mean you have to use them! But the soundset in the E60 is better than is likely to be provided in any dedicated stage piano (should you need a different sound). It already has an excellent 76 keyboard, it's under or about your weight limit, it has speakers built in... plays SMF's, savable presets, LH bass options, has every sound you mentioned.

I'm sorry, but I just don't get it... Why buy ANOTHER keyboard to do what you already have..? It does EVERYTHING you said you needed except recording (audio, that is, it has an EXCELLENT MIDI Recorder), and that was an option. You need to take a VERY careful listen to any of the cheap unweighted stage pianos. I think you are going to be very disappointed in their piano sounds even compared to your E60. And they won't have nearly as good a selection or quality of sounds than you already have.

brilliant, Diki, as usual! being of almost equal genius i had come to the same conclusion in the last couple of days after checking what's out there.
guess i thought i could lighten up even more,
and probably just looking for the cheap thrill of a new kbd to fool with. o well, it was fun researching. (btw Diki, after tweaking the Classic piano so much, lo and behold, I tried the Superior piano again, and on gigs, that seems to be the best one for me--untweaked. go figure. My original impression was that it was thin..but a good pianist i asked to try it liked the Superior best too.)

hey, what does everyone think of the Korg M50? 73 keys, light, cheap, seems to have a lot of fun features..can't find one to demo.
(damn this "new toy"impulse won't quit!)

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Miami Mo

Nice to see you come to your senses, Mo...!

I actually like the M50 quite a lot. It definitely adds some quite contemporary 'flava', does the whole 'loop' thing pretty well, and would compliment your Roland with some VERY different (but still great) sounds and grooves. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to REPLACE the E60 with it (it's pianos aren't as strong, IMO) but it would make almost the perfect compliment to it. For a budget price, that is...

complement,Diki. gotcha!

i'm off to Sam Ash this weekend to demo the M50

(but if i bought it I'd use Zzounds or similar for lower price, free ship, no tax, and 30-day
return policy w/o restocking fee) I will buy some sax reeds and a needed longer kbd cable so as not to be a total freeloader, tho.


------------------
Miami Mo

Before you buy at Sam Ash, give me a try.

I'm a Korg Dealer

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com

Frankie, sure..can you check the unit at
Zzounds.com and match the deal (the 73-key)
re price, free ship, 30-day return for any reason? I won't buy it at Sam ash, there's sales tax plus 20% restocking fee if i return.
but we're talking conjecture at this point..I have to demo the unit and see if i like it enough to spring for one. You may remember me,
I was up at your place 3 or 4 summers ago trying out the pa-800, sd5, and sd1..

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Miami Mo

I just had a thought, Ketron showed a new Piano module at Frankfurt. Robert played it when he came over to the UK too and its one of the most beautifull Pianos I have heard. When I listened closely to the sound I realised its not "perfect", which gives it life. I mean you can hear the slight tuning issues with the Piano they used as a model due to note for note, multilayer sampling; the gentle choral effect of very, very slight detuning of strings. It brings the whole thing to life in a way that I hadn't noticed before on anything else.

Piano modules are not realy my 'forte' (wink)...but I liked what I heard and since being with Hammond I realise its imperfection that brings musical instruments to life. You would still need a master keyboard though.

I'm a big fan of the Nord Stage and Electro3 pianos for the same reason... a ton of 'character' rather than inhuman perfection.

If it wasn't outside of Mo's budget, I would have suggested a Stage73 waterfall (lightweight), even though it doesn't have QUITE what he's looking for.

BTW, I'd like to compliment Mo on his complementary catch

so all this research has just got me going with "new toy teasers" and now some evil spirits have taken me over..and I'm thinking..hey why not really simplify and lighten up, to wit: Sell both E60's...use the Juno Stage 76 or Korg M50 73 as main board when arranger needs are secondary.. (yet there's still a ton of fun that could be used as well.) And, get a GW-8 for when I'm doing solo gigs or even some duo gigs..
where i'm going to go with 90% arranger styles. Sure it's 61 but not a big deal on those gigs, and not only so much lighter, it's got hipper Latin styles and seems better designed and easier to use as arranger than E60 on live gigs..as does the Juno as semi-arranger stage board. No speakers on either would be the only drawback, no? that's not a deal-breaker for me. (whew!~and for a hot minute i thought i was just going to have to stay on course)



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Miami Mo

Mo, just send me your money. Obviously it's burning a hole in your pockets .

chas

actually Chas, if i can sell the 2 E60's
(and i should get 900+ on those)..I'll be
pretty close to a wash on the replacements..

it's not the hole in my pocket, it's the ants in my pants, and the hole in my head!

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Miami Mo

I wouldn't ditch those E60's for a GW8-L, if I were you, Mo. The GW8 is stripped down in quite a few important aspects (one of the main ones is there is no tempo HOLD when calling up another style while one is playing) and honestly, I don't think the sound quality is quite there...

If I were you, I'd only sell ONE of the E60's (and try to sell it locally, just in case you get a breakdown and need to borrow a backup!) and try the JunoDi with it, or just sell one E60, save a bit and get the M50. The thought of selling a $1800+ (new) arranger to get a $1000 arranger just doesn't cut it, for me. You need to take a VERY careful look at the GW-8, I think. Personally, given a choice, I'd pick the E60 every time. Just the touchscreen alone is worth the price of admission (navigation on the GW-8 is MUCH more menu after menu, old school.

There are translations of many of the GW8 styles for E60 up at Roland-arranger.com. Have you tried those yet? Admittedly, the E60 is a bit lighter in the Latin percussion area, but it is no slouch, for all that!

I just think you need to back down from this hair trigger GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome), and research these options a bit more carefully. As I stated earlier, trading away stuff to get something new that doesn't do the job as good as what you have now makes little sense...

Newer isn't ALWAYS better...

Diki, you're priceless. I can indulge my fantasies without any danger I'll actually make a wrong move with you playing Jiminy Cricket. I wasn't aware the GW-8 had no hold,
and was so menu-driven. That's a deal breaker right there, which is not evident when I just look at close-up fotos on the net and read the descriptions. There's always some shortcoming in units that can be critical. Casio still refuses to provide a tap tempo, so no matter how much they improve their arrangers, I will never buy one, nor will anyone who likes to groove on the "feel " of the moment, or who accompanies anyone who counts off tempos on the fly. I chose the E60 over the Yamaha s900 because of some seemingly minor but actually critical function, (which I can't recall now)as well as the 76 keys.

Not that Roland isn't annoying as hell as to the garbage they include v the useful stuff they omit.
It's just that I've learned to live with that for the benefits--but I'm still frustrated that NOBODY really starts with a really well-designed light basic intelligent arranger for the pro (would not really add unnecessary expense to mfr) and THEN add on all the extra goodies that they feel they need to attract the larger home market.

Ok, so now I'm thinking, maybe the way to go
is keep one E60 and swap the other one for a used E50? maybe make a few $ in the process?
What would i be sacrificing except the 76 keys for a 10-lb drop in weight? I'll still
have 76 when i need it with the other E60 .
(btw Diki the E60 was $1800 msrp..but street
$1599, now $1499)

------------------
Miami Mo

Anyone had a chance to look at/test the new Casio PX-3 Pro Privia (upgrade from the PX-330)? Or the new Korg SP170?

Lucky

Lucky,
I stopped at Sam Ash..they didn't have the PX3 but they had a PX330 set up next to the Korg sp170. No contest-at least with the kbd spkrs only--
the Casio piano sound was miles richer and fuller. Not even close. I couldn't try any other sounds on the Korg because nobody on the floor, including myself, could figure out Korg's new system that's controlled "with the keys". There are no visible controls..no knobs, no buttons, no sliders. Volume control in rear. Looks slick but one must find out the secret to operating it.

Unless the other sounds are better than the Casio's, or the piano sound is as good or better outputting it thru an amp, i don't know how Korg can compete with Casio here.

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Miami Mo

oh and i nearly fell over when i saw the word "Tap" on the PX-330! it was under the tempo up/down buttons. Casio finally getting with the program and giving us a tap tempo?

but then i tried to tap tempos in w/ the up/down buttons because no visible tap tempo buttons..and it didn't seem to do anything. What,you need a manual for tap tempo????

so screw 'em, with their passive-aggressive attitude, they should have had tap tempos on all their units for the last 10 years like everyone else..and now they finally have it on their flagship but it's not straight forward, there's frikkin secret method to using it you have to look up? AAAAAARGH!!!!


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Miami Mo

[QUOTE]Originally posted by keysvocalssax:
Lucky,
I stopped at Sam Ash..they didn't have the PX3 but they had a PX330 set up next to the Korg sp170. No contest-at least with the kbd spkrs only--
the Casio piano sound was miles richer and fuller. Not even close. I couldn't try any other sounds on the Korg because nobody on the floor, including myself, could figure out Korg's new system that's controlled "with the keys". There are no visible controls..no knobs, no buttons, no sliders. Volume control in rear. Looks slick but one must find out the secret to operating it.

Unless the other sounds are better than the Casio's, or the piano sound is as good or better outputting it thru an amp, i don't know how Korg can compete with Casio here.

[/QUOTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcCHsq8wWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDRqrwkOrOw

thanks Donny, mystery solved but give me buttons or knobs anytime vs that system and it doesn't even have a 1/4 inch out, only headphones, so this unit wins the beauty contest but it's a complete dog v. the px330.

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Miami Mo