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#285599 - 04/17/10 01:38 PM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Watching someone struggle with volumes and sound selection while trying to play at the same time is usually a good indicator of whether something is easy to set up in advance or not. Generally, you'll see those people with easy to use OS's doing the least adjustments while they play, whereas someone constantly fiddling live (and getting in the way of the playing) seems to indicate that whatever settings need to be made that ease this burden were more bother than they were worth...

It's not just whether you can DO something - it's whether doing it is a PITA or not.


Once again you presume a lot not truly knowing anything about the actual instrument. Just because one person didn't have the instrument setup the way you'd want it set up doesn't mean it can't do what you want. The Mediastation can be setup like any other arranger and can even do much more with all its real time sliders and controls. How the user utilizes those controls is up to them. So Tastenpoint didn't operate the sliders smoothly enough for you, why the hell should that bother you. If you owned a Mediastation you'd set it up the way you'd want to use not the way Tastenpoint was playing it. I seriously doubt your G70 is setup the way it originally came from the factory. I'm sure you've spent considerable time learning its functions and adjusting the setup to your liking as should be.

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#285600 - 04/17/10 02:13 PM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Didn't say a darn thing about whether it could do it or not...

Just commented about whether it was EASY to do. Helps to read my comments before you go off half-cocked, old chum. And MORE than one person has commented about how awkwardly the way he has chosen to do what it a common task. Why SHOULDN'T anyone comment about that? Once you take it upon yourself to demonstrate using a particular piece of gear, you can't honestly expect people to NOT comment when something you do seems to turn playing into more of an equipment operating session than a pleasurable PLAYING experience...

The fact that most people here have already chosen to use an arranger rather than a complex WS is a pretty good indicator that PLAYING, rather than programming is their main focus. So demonstrating an arranger with a complex WS-like control system is OBVIOUSLY going to raise more than a few red flags...

You CAN drive a car steering with your feet, and operating the gas and brake with your hands. But would you WANT to? The more you actually PLAY (rather than let the machine play for you), the less time you have to operate controls. But anyway, bottom line... forget the controls. Is anybody blown away just by the sound and styles, etc.? I really wasn't.

Yamaha's demonstrators seem to understand that, if nothing else at all, a demonstration had better blow you away with the sound and playing. Most MS demonstrators seem to miss this basic fact, and think that showing you feature after feature (without demonstrating how MUSICALLY they can be used to impress) is sufficient. Whether it's a $500 cheap arranger or a $5000 über-arranger, demo it to its' best MUSICAL advantage, and people will buy it. Act like you are an MIT lecturer, and people will fall asleep.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#285601 - 04/18/10 02:29 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Quote:
Originally posted by AFG Music:
http://www.youtube.com/TASTENPOINTat#p/u

watch more, he used qranger with audio styles.

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 04-15-2010).]


Where did he use audiostyles?
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#285602 - 04/18/10 02:57 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Bachus:
Where did he use audiostyles?


here at the end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHSRsSy0nGA

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#285603 - 04/18/10 07:59 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Aye you're right at 8.15 he starts using a style with audio drums.
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#285604 - 04/19/10 09:52 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
gilbert Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 294
Loc: Oelsnitz /E Germany
Feature after features is exactly all we get,The demo left allot to be desired both in sound and ease of operation,okay, time you spend a year or so presetting a total playable programme i suppose it could perhaps function as an arranger but to my old ears, is yet noway comparable sound wise and the ease of use with any of the other mainstream arranger products.
As an arranger player I want first good and varied styles arrangements,then,good edit features for both style and voices,Ease of use,and good edit features for the Global parameters So I can spend all my time playing rather than fiddling around,for this I can use my computer.The voice changes in the demo using slider was not precise sometimes in a panic and worst of all very unmusical and quite an unnatural way of changing voicing,yes even here in Germany.
Is it not now time for Yamaha type demo to be made that really shows if this really is of interest to arranger players.

Gilbert.

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#285605 - 04/19/10 10:12 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Hi Gilbert.
Try following my thread then. You might find it more to your liking. The Audio is also recorded correctly.
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum44/HTML/000013.html

Regards
James

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#285606 - 04/19/10 11:03 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by gilbert:
Feature after features is exactly all we get,The demo left allot to be desired both in sound and ease of operation,okay, time you spend a year or so presetting a total playable programme i suppose it could perhaps function as an arranger but to my old ears, is yet noway comparable sound wise and the ease of use with any of the other mainstream arranger products.
As an arranger player I want first good and varied styles arrangements,then,good edit features for both style and voices,Ease of use,and good edit features for the Global parameters So I can spend all my time playing rather than fiddling around,for this I can use my computer.The voice changes in the demo using slider was not precise sometimes in a panic and worst of all very unmusical and quite an unnatural way of changing voicing,yes even here in Germany.
Is it not now time for Yamaha type demo to be made that really shows if this really is of interest to arranger players.

Gilbert.


I'm simply amazed at the conclusion you and others have made simply watching Tastenpoint play the Lionstracs. The Lionstracs is no different from any other arranger with the exception it has far more real time controls to choose from and can run VST's. There is no need to use the data sliders to change sounds, Tastenpoint obviously felt that was the way he wanted to use them. If you want to use switches, buttones, pedals, or sliders you simply assign them the way you want.

The Lionstracs is no more difficult to use than most arrangers so your presumption that it is seems based on you not actually using the instrument. James videos clearly show that using a Mediastation isn't difficult at all. Check out those videos if you haven't already.

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#285607 - 04/19/10 11:04 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by gilbert:
Feature after features is exactly all we get,The demo left allot to be desired both in sound and ease of operation,okay, time you spend a year or so presetting a total playable programme i suppose it could perhaps function as an arranger but to my old ears, is yet noway comparable sound wise and the ease of use with any of the other mainstream arranger products.
As an arranger player I want first good and varied styles arrangements,then,good edit features for both style and voices,Ease of use,and good edit features for the Global parameters So I can spend all my time playing rather than fiddling around,for this I can use my computer.The voice changes in the demo using slider was not precise sometimes in a panic and worst of all very unmusical and quite an unnatural way of changing voicing,yes even here in Germany.
Is it not now time for Yamaha type demo to be made that really shows if this really is of interest to arranger players.

Gilbert.


I'm simply amazed at the conclusion you and others have made simply watching Tastenpoint play the Lionstracs. The Lionstracs is no different from any other arranger with the exception it has far more real time controls to choose from and can run VST's. There is no need to use the data sliders to change sounds, Tastenpoint obviously felt that was the way he wanted to use them. If you want to use switches, buttons, pedals, or sliders you simply assign them the way you want.

The Lionstracs is no more difficult to use than most arrangers so presuming that it is based on not actually using the instrument is a mistake. James videos clearly show that using a Mediastation isn't difficult at all. Check out those videos if you haven't already.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 04-19-2010).]

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#285608 - 04/20/10 01:34 AM Re: Lionstracs Demos now on Tastenpoint YouTube site
gilbert Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 294
Loc: Oelsnitz /E Germany
Hi James,
Thanks for the link,which I have been following with interest since your first posting,although as can be seen I have yet to make any comments.
I have been waiting to see, what I describe in my initial post as.a Yamaha type demonstration,where different arranger function are seen, used on the fly running seamlessly between the changing of voices,styles,and performances over a period of time as one would expect to see in a live performance situation
It seems to me thar an awful lot of programming is going to be required on the Lionstracs products before this can be achieved,I believe most arranger players would prefer to just press a button or foot pedal and the get the exact sound rhythm and performance data loaded with minimum programming.

Ensnareyou,
Lionstracs is DIFFERENT than its competition by virtue of the fact that it is open and runs VST.which in its self identifies that to get what you want, you must spend considerable time setting up every Part parameter then storing ready for recall at the push of a button, this work must be repeated for each performance stored.
Do traditional arranger players want this? I think Not.
On my conventional arranger i have excellent realistict sounds, Unlimited full programme set ups I can recall at the press of one button and adequate real time controls to enhance these programmes and a easy to use OS, Why would I want be Tweaking rather than Playing.Yes it is only a matter of Choice.

You have every right to be amazed at my conclusions for the same reason i am somewhat surprised at your very defensive post particularly as i have only just stated my opinion,you may not agree with me,but please don't attack because my views differ from yours.
Gilbert.

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