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#275716 - 11/16/09 01:04 AM Re: Why an arranger?
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6483
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Good to see you back posting, my friend. ( Diki )



Well not exactly. Diki hasn't been reinstated yet. He just got lucky with an IP that he was assigned that happened to bypass the IP block I had suspended. He will be back ... but just not yet.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 11-16-2009).]

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#275717 - 11/16/09 01:05 AM Re: Why an arranger?
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Ian,
put it this way, I couldn't have sounded any worse. haahaa.
(Nice to see chivalry hasn't died)

Chas, may be trying to shake that pedestal he's had me on, just to see if my halo slips. haahaa

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Ahhhh, but Chas...perchance Rikki was a lousy piano piano player, as opposed to a much better arranger piano player?

There be a difference, methinks (as I chivalrously, and unabashedly, come to the lady's defence).
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#275718 - 11/16/09 01:25 AM Re: Why an arranger?
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Tony,
the 1000 I was reffering to was one of the yamaha keyboards Ian mentioned above.

Never owned the KN1000. Had the KN800, KN2, KN3,KN5,KN7. Even owned the only Synth & arranger module they produced (model names escape me. I think Fran & I were the only 2 that bought the Technics synth haahaa.
Wish I'd kept one of my Kn's.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by tony mads usa:
Quote:
Originally posted by rikkisbears:
[b]Hi Ian,
I think it may have been the 1000.
The card system looks familiar.

best wishes
Rikki


Rikki ... are you referring to the technics KN1000 ? .. if so, that's not it ... I still have the KN1000 ... 61 keys, floppy disk drive ...
t.

[/B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#275719 - 11/16/09 07:53 AM Re: Why an arranger?
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4334
Loc: Norway
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nigel:
Well not exactly. Diki hasn't been reinstated yet. He just got lucky with an IP that he was assigned that happened to bypass the IP block I had suspended. He will be back ... but just not yet.[QUOTE]

Hmmm, looks like things happens when it's nightime in this area and Mr.Me are sleeping
deep in my bed......

Did I miss a big dogfight or something or is it Nigel that runs the moderatorship in a harder way?

Cheers
GJ

Btw,
IP block is easy to sneak through for those who can and want to, but I guess it's not worth make
it worse than it already is.....
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#275720 - 11/16/09 08:27 AM Re: Why an arranger?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Diki got "suspended"? Why?

If he's not here any more, then neither am I.

Sad to see another forum ruined by stupid over-"moderation".

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#275721 - 11/16/09 09:07 AM Re: Why an arranger?
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4334
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by Seamaster:
Sad to see another forum ruined by stupid over-"moderation".


One thing you can't accuse SZ moderator Nigel for is "overmoderating".
He does a great job, and through the all the years I've been member here
he sure have been both very moderate in moderating, as well as a good
and very fair Forum owner.

GJ

[This message has been edited by Gunnar Jonny (edited 11-16-2009).]
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#275722 - 11/16/09 11:36 AM Re: Why an arranger?
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7290
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
My long-time partner/B-3 player slowly got slower due to arthritis. I started off playing guitar's (double-necks, electric sitars, nylon strings, etc.), mandolin, bass and tenor banjo.

As he got slower, I took over most lead work and worked in a set of vibes; then a Whirlitzer piano. When he had to quit, I moved over to B-3 (really rough for awhile), about 1973.

Subsequently, I got lots of jobs as a single on guitar. Lots of people danced at these jobs, so I used a 147RV Leslie and a simple Univox drum machine. I played a 335 through the Leslie. Then, I found my first Auto Orchestra. It was made by a predicessor of Solton/Ketron, I think. It was a module, which supplied drums, drum breaks and backing, all controlled by a set of conventional 13 pedals. You used the heel of your right foot (volume pedal foot) to trigger minors, 7ths, etc. You played the root bass note with your right foot. Still played the 335 thru the 147RV.

At the same time, I got a coctail hour job at a hotel, and they bought a Yamaha Electone organ for me to use. It had auto features, which came in handy when dancers showed up.

About 1993, A man named Petosa showed up in Lexington, visiting a well-known accordian player-Tony Lovello (a member of the original Three sons) , who was the general manager of the hotel I worked. He played an accordian with serious auto features from Petosa's store in Seattle. Joe Petosa had a Solton keyboard on his car and showed it to me. In 1994, I bought my first MS-60. I use arrangers sparingly. I use other players when I can (guitar, sax, trumpet, vocals), and play 1/2 my jobs as a single on a piano or guitar.

The real fun is my trio-grandson on drums and son on bass, with me on piano, guitar and synth. We do a two night a month duo on B-3 and drums.

Those jobs are on hold, due to a slow recovery of a serious injury to my left hand that had slowed me up a bit.Still able to make all my arranger jobs, thankfully, and have converted some of the others to arranger work.

I still have a love-hate relationship with arrangers, but they have a real place on my bandstands in certain instances.


Now, If I just took the time to work in the Midjay I got from Don. Or the SD-5 I got from Zuki. Or the GW-7 (I know, it's already replaced) I got from George...or....


Russ

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#275723 - 11/16/09 12:53 PM Re: Why an arranger?
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by captain Russ:
Now, If I just took the time to work in the Midjay I got from Don. Or the SD-5 I got from Zuki. Or the GW-7 (I know, it's already replaced) I got from George...or....


Russ


I believe that at some level, you really don't WANT to work in three more arrangers. It's one thing to NEED to use them and quite another to WANT to use them on certain gigs. The problem with working mixed (diverse) venues is that the 'CONTROL' you have over the music in the non-arranger gigs (piano/organ/drums/guitar/vibes/vocals) makes it difficult to relinquish that control (as you must) for arranger-based gigs.

Now notice, I said control over the music, not the gig. For a musician, that's huge; for an entertainer, not so much (NOT a putdown of entertainers, just trying to make a point). No matter how you slice and dice it, that arranger is not going to play the same bass line that you would have if you were playing it live. On the other side of the coin, no arranger player in the world wants to deal with trying to get back in sync with a vocalist who has missed a beat or come in too quickly. BUT if you're playing it live, no problem. And let's not even get into the joys of playing with other good musicians, even at the cost of a diminished paycheck.

Although some people here will honestly and legitimately state that they prefer to work an arranger-based gig (drunk drummer, bigger paycheck, etc.) I think most people would prefer to play 'live' if music was the only consideration. I also believe that for most audiences, it is more exciting and entertaining to watch a good, well-rehearsed band than an equally good arranger-based OMB. JMO.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#275724 - 11/16/09 01:30 PM Re: Why an arranger?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
So, Chas, my friend...why do you use an arranger?

Assuming that you do use one...occasionally.

The little darlings must fascinate you, even a little...otherwise, you wouldn't bother with an arranger forum?

I love the sheer ingenious gimmickry involved (I love gadgets...probably why I like cars) as well as the fun factor...for me, the making money part of it, just happened to come along whilst I was having fun.

To me the arranger allowed me to pretend, and opened up a whole area of playing and using my imagination.

I mean, you're using the Nord C1 to pretend you're actually playing (and, most importantly, hearing) a Hammond.

The arranger is just a step up from there (or a step down, maybe).
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#275725 - 11/16/09 02:01 PM Re: Why an arranger?
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Of course the answer is embedded in your own post. 1. I'm a gadget freak and 2. They ARE fun. So far, I've had the G800, G1000, Korg I5M, Tyros 2, and Korg PA1x pro (my favorite). Try to console yourself Ian, but the PA1x probably has 500 hours on it while the T2 has about 15 (and most of that was updating the software and installing the HD). Strictly a case of style preference. The T2 is a fine machine with several great solo voices and a very intuitive OS (just needs a touch screen ).

I use the PA1x mostly as a drum machine, great drums and easier to use than a real drum machine. I also find some of the voices more 'playable' than the Yammy (that smokey sax, for instance).

I don't use then on gigs because they don't lend themselves to the type of music I do on gigs. Simple as that. Also, I like to just sit down and play, without worrying about things like 'registrations' and 'what's under that OTS button'. Although I like gadgets, I hate having to commit a lot of stuff to memory. It's hard enough trying to remember the chords (try playing the changes to Mysterioso or 'round midnight while fooling around with registrations and stuff).

So, do I like arrangers? Sure, they're fun. Do I feel the need to get a new one? Not in the least. Rather spend my money on upgrading something like VP550 to VP770. At the moment, I'm spending a lot of time trying to get my head around the Fantom G7, as in using it as something more than a simple synth. I belong to the Roland Clan forum but don't post much. It's considerably more technical than this forum (that's it's focus) and everybody there is smarter and more knowledgeable about the instrument than me.

Don't know if I answered your question but typing a lot keeps my fingers nice and limber .

chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 11-16-2009).]
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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