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#265367 - 08/18/09 12:24 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5334
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
That's pretty cool, chas...

Did you overdub the sax solo? Me, I'd take a crack at hanging a bit of bending and scooping on it to get it a hair more realistic. You know you can't find a sax player anywhere that's going to play dead 'straight' even if you wanted it! But that's a pretty good style. I'll have to see if I've got a translation for that one...


Nope. I didn't overdub the sax. The only overdub is the electric guitar stabs towards the end (outro?). I have the G7 on the tier just above the PA1x. That's why there are no bends. Personally, I kind of like that Korg sax (bathed in 'verb) for certain types of songs. I don't go out of my way to try to emulate real (non-keyboard) instruments; it never works. I just think of it as a unique voice that's somewhat reminicient of a (fill in the blank). In any case, I was just trying to demonstrate a OOTB style vs. same from MS.

Fran (and this has nothing to do with performance), on a side-by-side style comparison, I frankly like the Korg style better, just sounds a little more 'hip' to me ((subjective thing, of course). Was that the G70 or the Mediastation? The sounds were pretty darn good.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#265368 - 08/18/09 01:13 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8567
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Chas, i guess you and I have to motor down to Diki land...and hear how he does it..."live".. .. .. .. ..:P... .. .. ..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#265369 - 08/18/09 01:21 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5334
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Fran, you edited your post after I asked my question (makes my question seem strange - and me too ). Those E80 sounds are pretty darn good. I'm always chasing Diki's (G70) piano sound but never seem to quite get there. He swears it's straight OOTB but I don't know if I believe him .

IMO, the G7 pianos are NOT any better than the SonicCell's (but I like the keybed on the G7 better than the A70 that I use to drive the SonicCell).

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#265370 - 08/18/09 01:42 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5334
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Chas, i guess you and I have to motor down to Diki land...



Not until after hurricane season is over .

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#265371 - 08/19/09 07:39 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5334
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Fran, this is not a criticism of your performance (Canadian sunset - done, no doubt, as a tribute to Ian ), but it does sort of bring up one of my problems with arranger keyboards (or at least, the way they're used). That involves Intros and Endings. The fact that the average user cannot play at the level of the professionally done Intros and Endings (especially the most complex ones which seem to be the ones most people choose). This makes for a very glaring disconnect with the rest of the song and BTW, doesn't fool anyone. If I ever used an arranger live (I never have), I would use either the simplest ending or, more likely, just the drums (and MAYBE bass) from an ending, and that, just to bring it to a 'tidy' close.

The other thing is to use appropriate lead voices for the particular style. For instance, theatre organ with hip-hop style just sounds bizarre. Lastly, with arrangers, I think we need to try to 'get in touch with' or 'feel' the style and then try to play within that style (as opposed to forcing our style of play onto it).

Just some thoughts (which clearly should be on another thread ). In fact, I think someone should start a thread ie. "Tips on using arranger keyboards 'live' (professionally)".

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#265372 - 08/19/09 06:08 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: United Kingdom
Chas that was excellent ! If you were to focus on using the PA1Xpro alone you for the next 3-4 weeks you would be a very dangerous man !!

When an instrument like that is in the hands of someone that is a musician first and a gadget freak after that amazing things happen. Thanks for posting.

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#265373 - 08/20/09 04:50 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5334
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Thanks, but that was truly just a ten minute exercise trying to demonstrate the importance of good (as in usable, professionally done) styles in an arranger keyboard. I think Diki and some of the others are correct about the MS, in that too much emphasis is placed on (ever changing, rarely finished) technology and not enough on style development and making it sound fantastic OOTB. Frankly, I'd love to have one but I know deep down that I'd never use it as anything other than a sample player (and there are much cheaper ones to be had).

BTW, is that you that works with the kids choirs and all. If so, I think that's great. I'd like to do something like that but with adults (I don't have the patience to deal with kids). I'm not religious but I love Gospel music.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#265374 - 08/20/09 08:58 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
mr9000 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 318
You know would be neat,if Cgiles & Diki uploaded more..

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#265375 - 08/20/09 05:27 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1184
Loc: United Kingdom
yes chas i work with both adult and childrens choirs. Gospel music is wonderful even if you are not religious but it moves up a gear if you are !

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#265376 - 08/20/09 07:46 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
So Diki ..is that a "Hip Hop"??

It was the default E80 sounds...less the sax and acc brass...


Sorry, not even close. You can't use default kits on translations. About the only way to get close is to listen to the original style, then Makeup Tool your brains out to try and match it (and fail miserably most times ). The Korg's have some seriously hip drum kits (derived from the SERIOUSLY radio ready Triton series) and you have to work like crazy to get anything close to them from a Roland. If you could build up User Kits from the available sounds spread over different kits, you might stand a better chance, but Roland don't let you do this.

A few years ago, I tried to get members here interested in making a database of recordings of ROM styles from each major arranger, for the purpose of providing a reference when it comes to translations, but no-one seemed interested. IMO, it's the only way, especially with complicated modern rhythms, to get anywhere near the original feel and sound.

In the meantime, maybe you could force yourself to listen to some hiphop, on the jazz tip, and maybe get a better idea of what you should shoot for? Maybe some Mary J Blige, John Legend, Jill Scott Heron, things like that? Nothing too gangsta...

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