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#265037 - 06/01/09 09:00 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
I'm confident Dom will work it out.., but that's not one of those issues you normally see as a "requested OS fix". Usually you find little annoying bugs here and there in the OS.., but the "possibility" that the user may need to reboot several times is a big issue. It's not just a hinder for live use.., but an annoying issue for studio use as well.

I know Dom will get it fixed.., but that issue would def raise some eyebrows.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-01-2009).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#265038 - 06/01/09 09:23 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
delete

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 03-06-2010).]

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#265039 - 06/01/09 09:27 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
You want an honest report on the MS...just ask!!!

The reboot problem that Dennis mentioned, originated from a update of Linus programs and a combination of incorporating a quad core CPU...The culprit was the kernel..Dom recently released a beta test kernel that seems to fix the problem of the "Jack" connection..

The Mediastation's ability to play Yamaha styles via LiveStyler/Lionstracs...solved the problems of yesteryear...The arranger play runs as smooth as most top arrangers, with dedicated buttons and sliders to handle "live play"..

What is missing currently, even with the Qranger...the possibility to edit live ..styles and sequence parts....in real time while performing...but you Yammie guys are use to that..

Roland users are spoiled..

What is unmatched...VST use..loading , playing...and the volume of quality Giga library sounds..

The dual player is also unmatched...It will play audio/ and midi files..with transpose of any file..smoothly..It has an easy search dial or type index..

CDG support is forth coming...And the lyric screen can be as large as you need in the 8" screen..

The Internet connection works great..uses Firefox..

The video play is also excellent...you can watch a video on break..

The assortment of patch capabilities is SUPER..allows you to work without the need of any mixer....The 2 mic inputs (low impedance), have their own effects , eq, and volumes...and there are a pair of audio inputs too (although you won't need a laptop to plug in)..Another keyboard can be plugged in..if you are with another band member...


Diki, you are right, I have not gigged with the MS, but use it all the time in the studio...Yes the few bugs that come up with the changing of OS and Linux updates can be disappointing....but as DNJ said....Dom is right there and solves the problem..even our own individual problem...either immediately..or within a short period of time..


Recap:

The Mediastation is decently stable...as of 2 days ago the new kernel has corrected some of the issues.. Initial boot up is perfect 9 out of 10 times..

The sounds are unsurpassed...For those of us that are lucky to have the boards to A/B them..it is evident the MS shines here...

The style play stands on it's own...with Livestyler..and the Qranger is the master at creating styles...

VST use is simply the best..

The combi mode is great..allowing the use of 8 patches to create the perfect user program...


I hope this enlightens some folks here..that mat be considering the MS...

Support..is simply unmatched by any company...Dom Rules...


Now maybe Dom will send me a check..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#265040 - 06/01/09 09:33 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
delete

[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 03-06-2010).]

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#265041 - 06/01/09 09:57 AM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Well..I will also explain better about this serial bug caused from the kernel and not from the MS OS...
The big work here is contine update the Linux kernel for a better performance.
here you can see the last kernel 2.6.29-9 at work: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/xrunsOS32.jpg
0 xruns during play for more than 2 hours and now we are about close at the 0 latency ( by setup normally is only 2.6ms)

The BIG issue is the F....g Dream chip SAM9708, because is SO SLOW to receive midi data and don't have enough midi buffer for the high speed CPU. ( 10+ years dated chipset..and full of digital noise for the new PC generation system)
For make working this ROM chipset, we must reduce at 80Hz the all serial hardware device and the all virtual midi/Network device at full speed, like the Gigasampler and Winealsa.
After this, we have now the new JACK MP ( multi processor)and the new kernel now work with quad core too ( but still some xruns on Winealsa only)

I gave to dennis the link for download the new kernel too ( is also available on GFTP server) for resolve this midi ROM startup issue.
Now this is fixed and in some days is available the new OS 3.2 with many OS updates.

This week we are working on the Multiple external display setups, right now are working up to 6 external display with the all resolution. We have payed Tiago from Xorg for fix again this feature NOT availabe on Ubuntu and now is released: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI3MQ

When the automatic script is fixed, you can connect up to 6 external VGA/DVI display/TV/HDMI, for make some like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhMErNsEoZw

Of course the MS will be the Master with the 8.4" display, for a total of 7 independent display. ( remember than now one 22" display cost less than 160 USD... )

After the new OS 3.3 with multiple display is released, finally we will add the MP3 CDG Karaoke on the all available displays/TV.

( Then I make a big vacation...I wil stop the developement for some months)
cheers

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#265042 - 06/01/09 12:34 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
@LIONSTRACKS

If you stop development for some time and go on vacation....

Does this mean that you also will not be able to give any support ?

I just hope that you're not on the verge of closing down the project due to the crisis?
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#265043 - 06/01/09 02:08 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:

The Mediastation's ability to play Yamaha styles via LiveStyler/Lionstracs...solved the problems of yesteryear...The arranger play runs as smooth as most top arrangers, with dedicated buttons and sliders to handle "live play"..

What is missing currently, even with the Qranger...the possibility to edit live ..styles and sequence parts....in real time while performing...

CDG support is forth coming...And the lyric screen can be as large as you need in the 8" screen..

The assortment of patch capabilities is SUPER..allows you to work without the need of any mixer....

Diki, you are right, I have not gigged with the MS, but use it all the time in the studio...Yes the few bugs that come up with the changing of OS and Linux updates can be disappointing....but as DNJ said....Dom is right there and solves the problem..even our own individual problem...either immediately..or within a short period of time..

The style play stands on it's own...with Livestyler..and the Qranger is the master at creating styles...

VST use is simply the best..

The combi mode is great..allowing the use of 8 patches to create the perfect user program...

Support..is simply unmatched by any company...Dom Rules.



1. Style play is NOT as smooth as top arrangers. No where near it. Ever try the manual bass button Fran, (doesn't work) try the one key button (it doesn't work) try the break button (doesn't work).....And this is even on the native styles..The "dedicated" sliders have to be re-arranged for every Yamaha style loaded. Want a pre-set setup of vol levels for your Yammie styles, forget it, can't be done. And the yamaha styles cannot be edited (on-board) to even just simply delete a part. No edits can be saved to the Yamaha styles.

2. Yep, agree here, absolutley NO editing of Yamaha styles at all. You would need to load up the various editors available for the yamaha and do this on your PC. And then transfer them back to the MS.

3. Yes you do seem to be keen on pushing for the CDG support, for someone who thinks we all use too many crutches, I cannot see why you would need lyric support.. and that is ALL CDG files do..add lyric support to MP3 files.

3.The bug in the Peformance function (this is the tool that takes a snapshot of the panel INCLUDING what data file you are using - be it MP3, Style or midi-) and then saves this to a performance slot for later recall. what happens at present is you can save it, but the second you select any performance..It crashes the MS totally. You HAVE to re-boot. A tad embarrassing in the middle of a set .

4.Because certain people have been pushing for the inclusion of CDG support, I think Dom has decided to fix them both at the same time, but the Performance should have been fixed MONTHS ago. It is a vital " live" tool. It's quite clear Fran has never used this live, and in fact has NO confidence in doing so. Try it Fran then you can talk from experience like I am.

5. Live style play does NOT stand on its own in fact it is far from it. Again from soemone who has not used it "live" and only in your studio, you should not really comment on anything to do with this keyboard in a live situation.

6. Agree 100% - VST use and play is superb and second to none!!!

7.Combi mode is good, I even have some combis using 4 and 5 VSTs (at the same time ) BUT it will not save other data in use, IE mp3 file, midi file or style. So again I say if one is playing in a band and has NO need for using any of those, the MS is perfect as it is.

8.Support is exceptional, so again I agree fully.


There are other things but more of a minor nature, but I just thought I had better clear up the "overly rosy" picture being painted here.

That the MS is a super synth for use in a band or solo keyboard situation is un-challenged.

It is as a style player and total tool for a OMB that it has issues. Whether these things will be addressed remains to be seen. Native style editing with midis is a big issue as a user cannot access vital style creation data, so everything does need to be played live to get the correct bass wraps, get the right transpositions on chordal modes etc etc.

On audio style creation it does fare better. As long as you have patience to find JUST the right loop, beat match them all and lay it all out in a coherent and cohesive manner.

I would say audio creation of styles is the easier of the two and I suspect this is the main focus of it, audio.

BUT I have to caution people who want to try and create styles from a complete audio "song"...In theory this can be done simply by using the markers, but in real terms, the use of these does not work. Quite glitchy and noticeable where the divisions are.

No, the user needs to construct styles from audio loops, of which there are millions, so the styles are inherently better as they are using live instruments for the most part, played by real players. This function alone, in my view, "kills" the Audya.

For this task I believe the MS will be SUPERB, I only say believe as I have, at this stage, only tinkered "around the edges", but having this experience and listened to the excellent audio styles created by another user, Magica Alfa, I am very confident this is the way to go.

I have been busy creating "work-arounds" for the other issues on the MS, but this is settled now and I can start creating audio styles.. I have several thousand loops and samples so it should be fun .

To be honest I was looking at selling the MS, and indeed found a buyer, but this person has been hesitant to go forward and it has given me pause, pause to re-consider selling it at all.. And to perhaps give it one more go.

If the ONLY thing that gets fixed is the Performance function, then for me the MS would be complete..........Oh and the external screen...that'd be cool too

I am not going to do any other sort of review, but if anyone has follow up questions for me, or Fran or Dom...As Fran said you just got to ask....

Dennis

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#265044 - 06/01/09 02:28 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Thanks for your honesty Dennis Warts and all. I am horrified that a fellow musician would allow individuals to spend thousands of pounds on an instrument that they know is intended to be used in a OMB live play situation and cover up its glaring deficiencies. No musician i know would deliberately purchase an arranger that habitually crashed on them in live play. That would be professional suicide. My comments are not aimed at you Dennis.

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#265045 - 06/01/09 03:29 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
Personally, I think there is FAR too much 'covering up' done on SZ, to better justify one's arranger being 'the best'.

I still am horrified at how much never gets mentioned (even Dennis is only JUST 'fessing up to these live dealbreakers, yet others here have had the MS MUCH longer). I truly thought a place like this should be to HELP each other make informed decisions about gear, not simply act as some kind of unpaid 'keyboard salesman' for companies that see little point in fixing issues no-one will talk about and negatively effect sales (which is what they REALLY care about).

A lot of the time, the FIRST time anyone without a certain arranger hears about any problems is when the factory issues a bugfix update (like T3's new one). Seems the owners don't want to lose face by admitting there ARE issues... This is utter bullsh*t! What does it hurt to inform our members here about these issues? There are STILL compelling reasons why we think what we picked is a great choice (at least for US ), so why try to hide these issues..? These AREN'T our kids or grandkids... so why so reticent to admit they have problems?

If it saves ONE member here from buying something that may not work for him or her, surely it will have served its' purpose... And the more we TALK about bugs, the more likely the factory will address them. Hide the truth, what's their incentive? Every new arranger that comes out, and the excitement that accompanies it, only goes to show that nearly ALL of us are interested in a better arranger... why not try to get the factory to make it the one we already HAVE?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#265046 - 06/01/09 03:48 PM Re: New Video Added by Lionstracs
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
But you see Diki, again here is the difference with Dom and the MS. Things DO get fixed, sometimes without ANY prompting on the part of end-users.

The issues with the MS I have made known for some time, I just chose NOT to make them at SZ.

MS users have their own network (and not just the Lionstracs forum) which is very efficient at identifying issues and having Dom address them and fix them.

My only "beef" is the order in which things are getting fixed/changed. They ALL get fixed in the end.

This divergence of the timeline of updates/fixes is to be expected as we are all different and have different pressures placed upon us.

I am certain Dom is in the same situation, no, MORE SO, than us, as he also has heavy financial pressures to deal with as well which MUST dictate his course of action.

If he had unlimited funds the Media station would already be outselling the major WS's by 2 to 1.

I am by nature, impatient and it is only this that has me at odds with the MS update schedule.

So I am merely disagreeing with the path, NOT the end result.

To give what I consider a good example and one that you will relate to....Had the MS had a chord sequencer that for whatever reason was removed from the OS, because you can speak with not only the creative designer, BUT the CEO of the company you would get it re-instated, with sustained requests. This will NEVER happen with the majors. Where ONE user can effect a change on a total OS.

It is perhaps the greatest of all the Media Station features, and one that does not get enough recognition.

Dennis

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